so burned out in grad school

[texgirl5660]

So I'm in a funded clinical psych program and I started this thing when I was like barely 22 doing a masters phd. Im just finishing with the master's part and can't figure out if i even like psychology anymore. I'm so exhausted to the point of just not paying attention in any of my classes anymore and just seem to be totally disengaged in the whole process. I'm about to start the hardest year of my program and just am seriously thinking about dropping out because I don't even know anymore. Did anybody else go through this!? Like i just don't seem to care about anything or have any other field I'm interested in. The first two years were so stressful just trying to figure out how to be successful in it. I'm just so tired and don't know if I should take time off to figure it out or what. I'm just feeling kind of hopeless about the whole thing. I don't know if i can do this thing for three or four more years. Any help?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[erg923]

Yes. I will be attempting to go into an I/O post-doc after this internship year, most likely anyway. I'm not sure I'd do all this over again. This is common, but some more than others. You and I sound like we probably have the same degree of it.

If you truly don't enjoy the work I (the work...not grad school itself, most people hate grad school), then I would say get out.

 

[Shatani]

every day of grad school, i wanted to quit. seriously, every single day.

it wasnt so much about not being interested in psychology anymore for me...i was just stressed the hell out. i can definitely empathize. i dont have any advice though...

 

[PsychBoxe]

I am in my second year of a clinical psychology program and I see some of that in a few of my classmates. I think it takes some heavy self reflection to admit to yourself that this area of work might not be what you originally expected. When the workload and other such responsibilities are overwhelming me, I always find it helpful to look to upperclassmen in my program for sound, personable advice. I also think it would be paramount to specify what factors ultimately lead to this disenchanted view you have on this career.

 

[2012PhD]

every day of grad school, i wanted to quit. seriously, every single day.

it wasnt so much about not being interested in psychology anymore for me...i was just stressed the hell out. i can definitely empathize. i dont have any advice though...

I think it is fairly common for people to feel "burnt" out at different points during graduate school due to being overworked and stressed. I think this is different from being consistently miserable. This typically came in waves for me and some other graduate students. However, during these times i was always able to see the "big picture" and understand why i was going through all this intensive training. I'm sorry to hear that you don't see the point anymore.

If i were in your position and I felt as depressed and hopeless as you are describing, I would take a break to re-evaluate goals or reduce my work load (take fewer courses, cut back on responsibilities etc). I would also recommend therapy or doing something for stress reduction daily.

Honestly though if you have felt consistently unhappy with graduate school for the past two years, it may not be worth the additional suffering. Graduate school in clincial psychology does not get any less stressful or demoralizing with time (from my experience). Plus, the field is not financially rewarding or secure like medical school so unless you are incredibly passionate about the field, it really doesn't make sense to suffer so much.

 

[2012PhD]

every day of grad school, i wanted to quit. seriously, every single day.

it wasnt so much about not being interested in psychology anymore for me...i was just stressed the hell out. i can definitely empathize. i dont have any advice though...

Shanti, what made you stick it out? Do you feel differently now that you graduated?

 

[McClinas]

Deleted

 

[cara susanna]

I've had days where I've wanted to quit, but the the thing is that I've always had one area of my graduate training that was going well and kept me motivated. If everything's going badly, like others have said, I'm still able to identify my end goal and keep a sense of perspective. I also can't really identify any other job or field I'd like to realistically go into.

If you're absolutely miserable and can't even see yourself in a future career in this field, I would definitely consider thinking about other options. I should state that one of my professors always advocated for saving thoughts about wanting to drop out for less stressful periods, like winter and summer breaks. He said everyone wants to quit in November or so.

 

[DrGachet]

Yes. I will be attempting to go into an I/O post-doc after this internship year, most likely anyway. I'm not sure I'd do all this over again.

I'm not sure why you're mentioning this. Are you prescribing a change in focus or study in a different subfield for a time, as a way to combat exhaustion and prevent burnout, because if that is so, I think it's good advice.

 

[Shatani]

Shanti, what made you stick it out? Do you feel differently now that you graduated?

my first year was rough, because my practicum was terrible and the person "supervising" me was more than a bit of a douche. (pardon my french!) i was feeling okay in class though. i think around my second year, school just got craptacular. i like the subject matter, but just didnt want to go to class anymore. luckily though, my practicum was fantastic that year and completely reparative!

from that point on, two things kept me going....i loved the work and i was in too deep! my program was not funded and i had accumulated much debt. no turning back now! im not saying i didnt have good times, or great professors, or classes that i loved....but literally every day i wanted to drop out. it was usually in the morning when i didnt want to get out of bed or in the evening when the day had been crappy....sometimes both! the saving grace of my program actually turned out to be the fact that i have been doing practica since the first year. even that crappy first year place had an aspect that i really liked (i co-facilitated a social rehab group for chronically mentally ill clients who were in IOP and assisted living)

is it better now? not really....i mean, im a doctor, but im most certainly not compensated as such. again, hate my job but love my work. and the loan folks are sniffing around for money that just doesnt exist currently.

 

[Shatani]

my first year was rough, because my practicum was terrible and the person "supervising" me was more than a bit of a douche. (pardon my french!) i was feeling okay in class though. i think around my second year, school just got craptacular. i like the subject matter, but just didnt want to go to class anymore. luckily though, my practicum was fantastic that year and completely reparative!

from that point on, two things kept me going....i loved the work and i was in too deep! my program was not funded and i had accumulated much debt. no turning back now! im not saying i didnt have good times, or great professors, or classes that i loved....but literally every day i wanted to drop out. it was usually in the morning when i didnt want to get out of bed or in the evening when the day had been crappy....sometimes both! the saving grace of my program actually turned out to be the fact that i have been doing practica since the first year. even that crappy first year place had an aspect that i really liked (i co-facilitated a social rehab group for chronically mentally ill clients who were in IOP and assisted living)

is it better now? not really....i mean, im a doctor, but im most certainly not compensated as such. again, hate my job but love my work. and the loan folks are sniffing around for money that just doesnt exist currently.

i will also say that the feeling of wanting to quit didnt get REALLY strong til around third year. and i remember that is the way i felt around junior year in undergrad. and ive decided that any future schooling i undertake will need to be less than three years...that is clearly my cutoff!

 

[Markro311]

Yes. I will be attempting to go into an I/O post-doc after this internship year, most likely anyway. I'm not sure I'd do all this over again. This is common, but some more than others. You and I sound like we probably have the same degree of it.

If you truly don't enjoy the work I (the work...not grad school itself, most people hate grad school), then I would say get out.

Do you have any I/O experience already? I, too, am in my internship year and interested in venturing into the I/O world. I am currently in a university counseling center setting, and was contemplating taking classes towards a business or I/O certificate (or if I'm feeling ambitious, another MA, but I doubt that) part-time once I land a job in a UCC setting (since classes will likely be free if I'm employed there).

However, going the post-doc route instead of taking classes intrigues me. I'm just not sure if that's plausible since I have no I/O experience to date (just a handful of business classes like accounting, microeconomics in undergrad and management/administration, supervision/consultation courses in grad school).

I wasn't sure what the best/typical route was for a clinical psychologist looking to slide on over to the business consulting, I/O world. Is a post-doc realistic? Do I need a certificate or even further education than that? Or is it often just a matter of landing a job/mentor to get started out?

Your help, or anyone else's, would be much appreciated!

 

[wigflip]

I always find it helpful to look to upperclassmen in my program for sound, personable advice.

Wow--sounds great! My so-called "colleagues" are one of the reasons I'm considering dropping out!

 

[wigflip]

So I'm in a funded clinical psych program and I started this thing when I was like barely 22 doing a masters phd. Im just finishing with the master's part and can't figure out if i even like psychology anymore. I'm so exhausted to the point of just not paying attention in any of my classes anymore and just seem to be totally disengaged in the whole process. I'm about to start the hardest year of my program and just am seriously thinking about dropping out because I don't even know anymore. Did anybody else go through this!? Like i just don't seem to care about anything or have any other field I'm interested in. The first two years were so stressful just trying to figure out how to be successful in it. I'm just so tired and don't know if I should take time off to figure it out or what. I'm just feeling kind of hopeless about the whole thing. I don't know if i can do this thing for three or four more years. Any help?

I'm sorry to hear this. I'm on SDN because I'm unhappy (well, miserable's probably more accurate) in a social science PhD program and am considering a return to psych (did my undergrad in psych). One theme that seems to recur from my time online here is that at least psych folks have clinical work to which they can retreat if the "academy" part of the equation starts to wear thin. I have to admit to a little envy there, though I know that clinical work is far from easy.

I recently took a leave of absence for a scheduled surgery. This is the reason I gave the department, and it's true, but I also needed time to clear my head about the state of my discipline, the likelihood that I'm training for academic jobs that either no longer exist (or never did), sort out my feelings about the quality of my training and my toxic department. I started to feel better, but being away also reminded me what "real life" is like, so now that I'm back I'm just as unhappy as I was before. I think if I'd had a better plan for my leave, probably accompanied by some good CBT, I might have already made a decision instead of just deferring one. I'd say time away in the form of some kind of leave could be helpful, but only if you don't use it solely as an escape mechanism.

One thing that has helped me feel better is reading the various grad school "scamblogs" such as 100 Reasons Not to Go to Grad School (geared for humanities and social science folks, but STEM folks post all the time too). It's been helpful for me in that this particular blog, as well as most of the comments posted there, offers a critique of academic and financial institutions driving this whole process.

On the upside--and I don't mean to sound patronizing here--you are so young that if you were to leave and later reconsider the decision, you could probably return to academia (in psych or another discipline) at a later date. How much longer would you have to stay to go ABD??

My favorite undergrad TA left after his MA, intending to do therapy. He was sharp as a tack, and I recall thinking that if he was unhappy in grad school, there had to be something wrong with grad school, not him.

 

[PsyDLICSW]

So I'm in a funded clinical psych program and I started this thing when I was like barely 22 doing a masters phd. Im just finishing with the master's part and can't figure out if i even like psychology anymore. I'm so exhausted to the point of just not paying attention in any of my classes anymore and just seem to be totally disengaged in the whole process. I'm about to start the hardest year of my program and just am seriously thinking about dropping out because I don't even know anymore. Did anybody else go through this!? Like i just don't seem to care about anything or have any other field I'm interested in. The first two years were so stressful just trying to figure out how to be successful in it. I'm just so tired and don't know if I should take time off to figure it out or what. I'm just feeling kind of hopeless about the whole thing. I don't know if i can do this thing for three or four more years. Any help?

I find myself vacillating between where you are now and wanting to stay in grad school. My issue is that I am burned out on school. I applied to grad schoo, out of undergrad but the only program I got into was an MSW and it was sort of a waste because it burned all my energy for school. My program is 5 years (University based PsyD with research componenets) and I just finnished my second year. But it is my fourth year in grad school. I have two masters degrees. I am just ready to be done because I am sick of school. I want to go to work, come home and not have to do anything else and not have to answer to anyone when I'm "off the clock." I want a life. I think it's because I am older than the people in my cohort and I don't relate to them or fit in with them very well. They still have energy and don't have an accurate perceptions of how things will be for them in the real world. The only thing that keeps me going in clinical work, assessment and what kind of jobs I can get when i'm done. I suggest find something you like in your grad work (e.g. clinical work) and ocus on that. if there is nothing you like about your prorgam at all, I'd consider taking a leave of absence/quitting. is there anyone you can talk to?

 

[cara susanna]

I suggest find something you like in your grad work (e.g. clinical work) and ocus on that.

I second that suggestion.

 

[2012PhD]

I find myself vacillating between where you are now and wanting to stay in grad school. My issue is that I am burned out on school. I applied to grad schoo, out of undergrad but the only program I got into was an MSW and it was sort of a waste because it burned all my energy for school. My program is 5 years (University based PsyD with research componenets) and I just finnished my second year. But it is my fourth year in grad school. I have two masters degrees. I am just ready to be done because I am sick of school. I want to go to work, come home and not have to do anything else and not have to answer to anyone when I'm "off the clock." I want a life. I think it's because I am older than the people in my cohort and I don't relate to them or fit in with them very well. They still have energy and don't have an accurate perceptions of how things will be for them in the real world. The only thing that keeps me going in clinical work, assessment and what kind of jobs I can get when i'm done. I suggest find something you like in your grad work (e.g. clinical work) and ocus on that. if there is nothing you like about your prorgam at all, I'd consider taking a leave of absence/quitting. is there anyone you can talk to?

Its nice to be able to see an honest discussion about burnout. Many times people in grad school pretend like everything is okay and are afraid to voice concerns about their program or hesitations about going into the field. I think burnout often happens because we are prioritizing the "shoulds" over what we are actually interested in and passionate about. My program communicated the idea of "just suck it up" and "You are supposed to put up with many things that you hate so that you can get an internship." I still focused on having a life and doing training activities that i enjoyed---I tuned out many of the "shoulds" that didn't make sense to me, and still got what i wanted in terms of internship.

I personally don't think its psychological healthy for anyone to be in graduate school for 6 years, so I would expect everyone to feel burnt out or demoralized at some points during the process, unless they are defending against it. Its also particularly infantalizing to be in your 30's or 40's without an income and still facing many more years of school after completing 4 years of a BA. I still have not met anyone who had a great dissertation experience or enjoyed working on his/her dissertation overall. Doctoral education is just a messy process with tons of failure, disappointment, and nagging doubts along the way.

I think the europeans and other countries have a better system. In many other developed countries, you go directly into graduate education after high school and bypass the whole 4 year college thing. Also, in countries like the UK, A PhD in clinical psychology is a 3 year funded program of research. I looked into oxford and cambridge at one point and i remember that you could do an M.A. in 1 year and a PhD in 3.

 

[Ollie123]

One of my professors once said that the key to graduate school (and publishing/grant-writing) is learning to ignore the pain you experience while banging your head against a wall. He was obviously joking, but there is definitely an element of truth to it.

I'm definitely somewhat burned out. I've had serious doubts about my career decision, particularly as I have extremely diverse interests both within psychology and more generally. Could very easily have gone into finance and made more in a year than I likely will in the rest of my life (which is good, because I'd likely be unemployed once the market crashed😉 ). I've been programming computers since I was 10 years old, so I often entertain fantasies about leaving academia and all that pesky social interaction we do in this field, and hunkering down in a cubicle designing circuit boards and developing software.

These thoughts come in waves and to be honest, I have not yet found a great strategy for dealing with them. There are days I'm thrilled to be in this field and days I start googling the entry requirements for engineering programs.

What keeps me going is a number of things. Foremost is the knowledge that I'm gaining a very diverse skillset and that getting a PhD in psychology does not mean I need to be a psychologist for the rest of my life (at least as typically defined). My goals are largely research-focused, but there are many opportunities outside academia, or even within academia but not a typical tenure-track professorship. I could work in statistics, get involved in a bioengineering/software company (given my interests in psychophys), there are a plethora of government jobs (or at least there were) at places like the CDC, NIH, SAMHSA, etc. that hire psychologists, I probably have enough of a business background to justify a position in IO/consulting. The knowledge that I am not bound to any one particular path is comforting, even though my focus on academia still persists. Thinking about the broader skillsets I'm developing helps me gain some perspective and realize the utility of my training, as well as the value it will have regardless of what I end up doing.

 

[wigflip]

There are days...I start googling the entry requirements for engineering programs.

[with sharp pang in stomach]
Oh god. That's what I'm doing with psychology programs.

 

[PerhapsMaybeOk]

Stick it out if you're funded.

 

[2012PhD]

He he...it doesn't help when you meet engineers with only a BA degree who make 6 figures and get free lunch/dinner at google.

I google NP and IO program requirements from time to time. I have funding and i'm almost done with my program so i'm going to stick it out.

 

[wigflip]

Stick it out if you're funded.

I realize that this was directed at the OP.

Folks in my department are screwed due to CA budget cuts. I could end up taking another 5 years to lurch through a self-funded qualitative diss and likely would finish with no better prospects than the disposable adjunct gigs. Or split with the MA now and go for the MFT or PsyD. I'd pay tuition either way and finish around the same time either way--difference is, I MIGHT make some money and do something relevant going the psych route (anyone who tries to tell you that attempting to teach social theory and methods to undergrads who are too lazy to proofread their own names is fibbing). MFT pay isn't great, but it's world's better than the freeway gypsy route.

 

[2012PhD]

I realize that this was directed at the OP.

Folks in my department are screwed due to CA budget cuts. I could end up taking another 5 years to lurch through a self-funded qualitative diss and likely would finish with no better prospects than the disposable adjunct gigs. Or split with the MA now and go for the MFT or PsyD. I'd pay tuition either way and finish around the same time either way--difference is, I MIGHT make some money and do something relevant going the psych route (anyone who tries to tell you that attempting to teach social theory and methods to undergrads who are too lazy to proofread their own names is fibbing). MFT pay isn't great, but it's world's better than the freeway gypsy route.

Many PsyD's also do self funded qualitative dissertations and it doesn't take more than 2 years of work in a PsyD. If you go the PsyD route, use already collected data.

 

[wigflip]

Many PsyD's also do self funded qualitative dissertations and it doesn't take more than 2 years of work in a PsyD. If you go the PsyD route, use already collected data.

Sigh. Sounds good. Sadly, I think 4-5 years is more the norm for the diss in my dept. 🙁
Maybe the PsyD is the way to go after all.

 

[futureapppsy2]

wigflip, what field/subfield are you in? You can PM me if you don't want to post it publicly. Just curious. 🙂

 

[Psychology 76]

I've been in grad school for about a week and I already feel burnt out haha 🙂

I'm just sick of taking classes though really. I came strait out of undergrad so I just did 4 years worth of coursework with no break.

I love my research though so that will keep me going. But as far as classes, let's just say I won't be getting a 4.0 😛

 

[RayneeDeigh]

This is just my experience so maybe yours is different...

My grad school experience has been mostly horrible. If anybody remembers me from 4 years ago, I had to move 3 times in my first year because of housing issues, most of the profs in my program are at least eccentric if not downright personality disordered, and my fellow students are... well, sharks. So I feel like I've had a rough 4 years of grad school and have mostly hated every second of it. That is, except for the clinical work and the fact that I have never lost the feeling that I am doing what I am MEANT to be doing. If it wasn't for that I would have surely quit by now as any sane person would have!

I am burned out, frustrated, exhausted, and more than a little annoyed at how negative this experience has been, but it hasn't broken me and I can't believe how much I've grown as a person since I started. It makes me a better clinician because I can identify with that feeling of being at the end of your rope and before grad school I hadn't been through it.

If you don't think you have that connected feeling to how much you love the profession anymore than I say get out, because a burned out therapist is a dangerous therapist. But if you do still have that and it's just a matter of hating the circumstances or the bastardized version of psychology that grad school sometimes teaches you, then stick it out.

 

[paramour]

I've refrained from posting to this thread to prevent myself from ranting. Burned out a helluva long time ago. Some days more than others. I hate, . . . loathe, . . . despise grad school. What saddens me is that I honestly do not believe that it is graduate school in and of itself. It is the people (both faculty and students) that contribute to making every day of my existence here miserable. The few students who I could rely upon to brighten my day have either left (for various reasons), and now there's only li'l ole' me. I have no reason to remain here. Other than I am so damned far along that I might as well stick it out. Unfortunately, I am a stubborn, persistent individual... a known character flaw.

I'm right there with the folks searching for entrance requirements to other programs. I do it on a frequent basis. The closest I came to being done (and actually actively pursuing another path), however, was at the end of this previous academic year when I applied for a full-time position with the Dept of Corrections. I received an interview and accepted it. Although I was informed that I successfully passed my physical exam and interview on that day, the rest of the "background screening" takes approximately a year to process. Ah, well, I'm not sure if that was for better or worse. 😛

So here I am dissertating... and hoping that I make it through another cursed year without ruining my life even further.

 

[wigflip]

Although I was informed that I successfully passed my physical exam and interview on that day, the rest of the "background screening" takes approximately a year to process.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of "physical exam" does the Dept of Corrections make you undergo? Urine testing? When I first read this I was imagining climbing the rope like in junior high.

 

[paramour]

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of "physical exam" does the Dept of Corrections make you undergo? Urine testing? When I first read this I was imagining climbing the rope like in junior high.

I was informed that drug testing (along with a physical examination by a physician) will be required upon receipt of an offer.

On the day of the interview, we had to do the following:
- complete massive amounts of paperwork (after already completing massive amounts of paperwork in a packet sent to us prior to our arrival);
- take a "memory" test after watching a 2-3 minute video; people who did not pass were immediately dismissed at this point;
- physical exam, which consisted of a hand grip test, step test, convoluted obstacle course, and push up test (again, you were dismissed if you could not pass at any point);
- interview with examination team.

There were two interview days with ~150 people scheduled for each day (~300 total). On the day that I was scheduled, there were 5-6 people who failed the memory test, and then at least half the folks failed some part of the physical before I left. (But they were still going when I was informed that there was no need for me to stay because they stamped my file to be moved to the "next step".) Next step consists of their apparently quite invasive background check... then, if an offer is made, they require the drug testing and physical exam by a physician... and then you go to ~6/8-week training (similar to boot camp).

 

[Ollie123]

I believe any federal employer makes you get a basic physical (like you'd get at an annual checkup) before being hired. Had to get one at the VA so I could even work for them for free as a practicum student.

I assumed it was for liability/insurance purposes, but someone can probably say for certain. If its like what the VA does its not a big deal and (to my knowledge) isn't really used to rule people out unless they pop up positive on a drug screen or something like that.

edit: Good lord! I stand corrected...had no idea the DOC exam was so different (though I suppose it makes sense). What kind of position was this for?

 

[edieb]

Although grad school was definitely hard, I found solace in the class work, my own psychology-related reading, etc. I really enjoyed all those things. However, more than anything, I think what kept me going is the fact that I thought the hardships were temporary.

However, I hit bottom AFTER receiving my Ph.D. and realizing that for all this work there is little reward. My friends describe the same phenomenon as occuring while studying for the EPPP or right after passing. You look back and see this little sheet of paper that says "licensed psychologist" and that's all there is. Not a big raise, not much prestige, not anything. Then you realize that light at the end of the tunnel was never really there at all!

With all its insane hoops and hurdles, this field is truly a lifelong struggle that I caution any It's as if we complete programs as rigorous as M.D.s but for a fraction of the compensation....

 

[paramour]

I believe any federal employer makes you get a basic physical (like you'd get at an annual checkup) before being hired. Had to get one at the VA so I could even work for them for free as a practicum student.

I assumed it was for liability/insurance purposes, but someone can probably say for certain. If its like what the VA does its not a big deal and (to my knowledge) isn't really used to rule people out unless they pop up positive on a drug screen or something like that.

edit: Good lord! I stand corrected...had no idea the DOC exam was so different (though I suppose it makes sense). What kind of position was this for?

"Juvenile Justice Specialist" position--basically the equivalent of a corrections officer in a juvenile corrections facility. The position claimed to some "group," "counseling," "therapeutic" and "support" work, but it's primarily a security position. It paid well (and more so than the master's level "psychologist" positions that were posted).

I almost snorted during my interview (which was after the physical--thank you for making me all sweaty & exhausted and then asking me all those damned questions!). One of my interviewers told me after we were done, "You sound like a psychologist." I almost wasn't sure how to respond to that one.

 

[wigflip]

I
- physical exam, which consisted of a hand grip test, step test, convoluted obstacle course, and push up test (again, you were dismissed if you could not pass at any point)

Oh no--junior high P.E. all over again! Thanks for the info and good luck!

 

[paramour]

Although grad school was definitely hard, I found solace in the class work, my own psychology-related reading, etc. I really enjoyed all those things. However, more than anything, I think what kept me going is the fact that I thought the hardships were temporary.

However, I hit bottom AFTER receiving my Ph.D. and realizing that for all this work there is little reward. My friends describe the same phenomenon as occuring while studying for the EPPP or right after passing. You look back and see this little sheet of paper that says "licensed psychologist" and that's all there is. Not a big raise, not much prestige, not anything. Then you realize that light at the end of the tunnel was never really there at all!

With all its insane hoops and hurdles, this field is truly a lifelong struggle that I caution any It's as if we complete programs as rigorous as M.D.s but for a fraction of the compensation....

I agree with the first point in bold print. My academic work and personal reading is just about the only that ever even slightly interests me. However, I've never had any thoughts that the hardships would be temporary--simply that they would change to other hardships. I've also never thought much about prestige, money, etc. because I always knew that it was unlikely. I wonder if this is part of my problem. I've been realistic from the beginning. I knew exactly what I was getting myself into for what I wanted, but I was okay with it (at that time), so all was well with the world. Then, life became a horrific, miserable existence, and the sacrifices over the years no longer seem worth it any longer. So I keep working on whatever interests me at the present time, and hope that maintains me long enough 'til something else comes along.

 

[wigflip]

Although grad school was definitely hard, I found solace in the class work, my own psychology-related reading, etc. I really enjoyed all those things. However, more than anything, I think what kept me going is the fact that I thought the hardships were temporary.

However, I hit bottom AFTER receiving my Ph.D. and realizing that for all this work there is little reward. My friends describe the same phenomenon as occuring while studying for the EPPP or right after passing. You look back and see this little sheet of paper that says "licensed psychologist" and that's all there is. Not a big raise, not much prestige, not anything. Then you realize that light at the end of the tunnel was never really there at all!

With all its insane hoops and hurdles, this field is truly a lifelong struggle that I caution any It's as if we complete programs as rigorous as M.D.s but for a fraction of the compensation....

I'm so sorry to hear this. In retrospect, do you think you would have been happier with the outlay of effort relative to outcome if you had received only masters level training (MFT/MSW)? The only recent clin psych grad I personally know says he would never do it again.

 

[paramour]

Oh no--junior high P.E. all over again! Thanks for the info and good luck!

Your jr high P.E. must have been more torturous than mine.

(A woman fell off the steps backward during the step test. The proctors kept bellowing at everyone else, "KEEP GOING! KEEP GOING OR YOU WILL FAIL!" It was timed, so if you missed a step to the beat, then you were SOL. In the meantime, folks were concerned about the poor lady who just whacked her head on the wooden floor. 😱)

 

[wigflip]

🙁A woman fell off the steps backward during the step test. The proctors kept bellowing at everyone else, "KEEP GOING! KEEP GOING OR YOU WILL FAIL!" It was timed, so if you missed a step to the beat, then you were SOL. In the meantime, folks were concerned about the poor lady who just whacked her head on the wooden floor. 😱)

ghastly. though i think it's probably a good metaphor for graduate school in general. oh wait--no it's not--none of the graduate students i know would show concern for someone else--they'd turn around and do the steps backwards so they could get a better view while pointing and laughing. those ghouls would lick up the blood if they could!!

 

[cara susanna]

I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy...

 

[wigflip]

I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy...

I think that's what's gotten me down about grad school the most--it IS like middle school--with even more scapegoating and hazing and bullying. Except this time, the teachers are in on it too.

 

[2012PhD]

Although grad school was definitely hard, I found solace in the class work, my own psychology-related reading, etc. I really enjoyed all those things. However, more than anything, I think what kept me going is the fact that I thought the hardships were temporary.

However, I hit bottom AFTER receiving my Ph.D. and realizing that for all this work there is little reward. My friends describe the same phenomenon as occuring while studying for the EPPP or right after passing. You look back and see this little sheet of paper that says "licensed psychologist" and that's all there is. Not a big raise, not much prestige, not anything. Then you realize that light at the end of the tunnel was never really there at all!

With all its insane hoops and hurdles, this field is truly a lifelong struggle that I caution any It's as if we complete programs as rigorous as M.D.s but for a fraction of the compensation....

I never expected lots of money or prestige. However, what is very discouraging for many people to see is that even after going through the internship insanity, post-doc process, and licensure hurdles, there is no job security, your degree is not valued, and anyone can market themselves as a therapist. At least when you apply for academic jobs they generally limit the applicant pool and a degree actually matters. For many jobs in our field it is frustrating to see that there is no distinction made between LPC, MSW, and Psychologist. At hospitals, there are also addiction counselors that only have B.A. degrees that are hired to do similar work as psychologists even though they lack the training. I remember interviewing at an inpatient unit in a state facility and the psychologists were spending their time taking patients to their dental appointments.

 

[SingingCow]

I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy...

We do that from time to time and we're all quite happy. We don't fill the cake with rainbows, smiles, or sunshine though. We fill them with good-quality CHOCOLATE. 🙄

There were times when grad school felt miserable, but I blamed it almost entirely on my perfectionistic ideals. I enjoyed the work AND the people. It's not always perfect and there were days when I felt like strangling someone. In the end, it was all good.

 

[aurisha7]

I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy...

"she doesn't even go here!" 😉

 

[cara susanna]

YES! I was hoping someone would get it.

"I just have a lot of feelings..."

 

[aurisha7]

YES! I was hoping someone would get it.

"I just have a lot of feelings..."

I don't post too often but I had to come out of the dark for a Mean Girls reference 🙂

 

[deleted305109]

It's been really therapeutic to read this chain.

I'm going into my second year of a clin psy phd program, and I'm finding myself using mindfulness and reframining techniques constantly throughout the day to keep from losing my mind. My major frustration is not just with the sheer volume of work. My supervisors and research advisor seem to expect total proficiency across a varied array of skill sets. It is emotionally challenging, for instance, to work on an abstract for 3 hours then do a 2 hour therapy intake. It takes a total mindset switch to pull it off. Add classes, assessments, and thesis writing on top of that, and your world starts to swirl. My research advisor is not a clinical psychologist, and I don't think he understands the time demands of learning new tests, writing reports, etc.

More and more, I'm beginning to realize that it's up to me to shape my graduate school training. Saying no to a writing opportunity, call for abstracts, or refusing to take a new case for a little while can feel risky. It's hard saying no to your research advisor (power dynamics, dept politics, fear of potential poor recommendation letter), yet, as indicated by others on this burnout thread, saying yes to everything may be even worse.

 

[roubs]

YES! I was hoping someone would get it.

"I just have a lot of feelings..."

Is this an apt time to mention that my cohort had a Regina George problem?

 

[futureapppsy2]

I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy...

My father, the inventor of toaster strudel...

Maybe we need an SDN burn book? 😎

 

[2012PhD]

It's been really therapeutic to read this chain.

I'm going into my second year of a clin psy phd program, and I'm finding myself using mindfulness and reframining techniques constantly throughout the day to keep from losing my mind. My major frustration is not just with the sheer volume of work. My supervisors and research advisor seem to expect total proficiency across a varied array of skill sets. It is emotionally challenging, for instance, to work on an abstract for 3 hours then do a 2 hour therapy intake. It takes a total mindset switch to pull it off. Add classes, assessments, and thesis writing on top of that, and your world starts to swirl. My research advisor is not a clinical psychologist, and I don't think he understands the time demands of learning new tests, writing reports, etc.

More and more, I'm beginning to realize that it's up to me to shape my graduate school training. Saying no to a writing opportunity, call for abstracts, or refusing to take a new case for a little while can feel risky. It's hard saying no to your research advisor (power dynamics, dept politics, fear of potential poor recommendation letter), yet, as indicated by others on this burnout thread, saying yes to everything may be even worse.

What makes the clinical PhD one of the most stressful is the fact that you are expected to juggle multiple unrelated jobs all at the same time and often on the same day. You are expected to be a researcher, student, teacher, therapist, and to do psychological assessments all at the same time and be competent at each. Many graduate programs expect you to just do well in your courses or focus 100% on publishing while clinical programs demand that you engage in all these tasks simultaneously. Its usually much more sane to focus on one thing at a time.

 

[DrGachet]

It bothers me when I read some people find every month, every week, every day stressful enough that they want to get out. No matter what obligations you have or if you suck in everything except psychology, I would still advise you to get out, right now, it's not worth it. Because by all accounts, once you start practice, things don't exactly get better.