So depressed

[student1799]

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Hello, fellow nontrads. I'm one of the oldest people here (I'm 45), and one of the most diehard believers that we nontrads can make it past our obstacles and conquer the world. But, like Nanon a while back, I'm really starting to wonder whether this is ever going to work for me.

I know I was crazy to do this in the first place, leaving an established career to do this even though my old undergrad GPA is horrific due to serious family problems 25 years ago. But I went ahead anyway, because I want to be a doctor so badly. I just finished a 2-year postbacc program at school known for tough academics, and I managed a 3.6 GPA--a little lower than I was hoping for, but still respectable. (This brought my uGPA to just over 3.0.) I racked up a large amount (>500 hours) of high-quality clinical experience, and collected 5 LORs that I believe are very strong, including one from the MD who was my clinical research program director. My postbacc adviser strongly hinted that I would get a very positive committee letter from my program, and was encouraging about my chances at the schools I applied to.

The last piece of the puzzle was the MCAT. I put in a serious amount of time studying for it (2 months straight, 7 days a week), and did really well on 16 practice exams (8 AAMCs, 8 Kaplans), averaging 35: 10 PS 13 VR 11 BS. But when the real thing rolled around in July, I got an absolutely sadistic PS section and went into panic mode. I ran out of time before finishing all the questions (9 left blank), and got a 7. (Total score was 30S: 7 PS 12 VR 11 PS.) I knew walking out of there that it hadn't gone well, so I immediately started studying for a retake and took it again in August. I thought it went better the second time, but no: I got a 31S (7 PS 13 VR 11 BS). I had run out of time on PS again, but this time I was only 4 questions short; I thought that would still be enough to improve my score, but it wasn't. I can't believe I did so well on timed practice exams and so rotten on the real thing.

So after all the blood, sweat and tears I've put in over 2 1/2 years, it looks like I'm totally out of luck. Not only did I get a lousy PS score, but I got the same one twice, and I think it will be the kiss of death for my applications. I'm just in despair that everything else I can bring to the medical profession is more than likely going to be ignored because of only a couple of questions on the MCAT. (I obviously don't know exactly how I did, but if I was at the top of the score range for a 7, getting those four blank questions right could have brought my score to a 9.)

I got this bad news 3 weeks ago, and I've forced myself to complete my remaining secondaries, but it was an ordeal because I know in my gut how hopeless this probably is. I'm already starting to think about reapplying, because I know I'm most likely toast this year. But at my age, I don't have a lot of time left.

I wish I could just wake up from this nightmare into a world where med school admissions actually had something to do with people and not just their goddamn numbers.

 

[bradt9881]

Did you try a review course? And keep your chin up and keep trying. If I can graduate from PA school at age 50, you can do the same with med school.....

 

[ChairmanMao]

You really need to take some time out and study for the MCAT correctly. I'll PM you later

 

[teddybear]

I'm sure that with the way you feel right now, I won't make you feel any better. But you've come too far for something to not come out of this. Stick in there.

 

[WaiWahine]

You know there are 3 medical schools in Canada that do not require the MCAT: Northern Ontario, McMaster and Ottawa. Not to mention Caribbean schools, and other international ones. If you are flexible where you attend and are willing to go for it, you can become an MD through them.

 

[MSmentor018]

3.6 and a 31 mcat. hopeless...did I read your post wrong?? don't sell yourself short. I know it can be crappy if you waste a year so if getting into med school is something you want now, and I know time is a consideration. spend the money and apply very, very broadly. MD and DO. you'll get an interview somewhere, you'll never know who will give you a shot. trust me, it's not too late. I was out of the country and didn't start applications until oct 15. interviews around christmas, got in by jan. hang in there. good luck! 👍

 

[MeowMix]

You know there are 3 medical schools in Canada that do not require the MCAT: Northern Ontario, McMaster and Ottawa.

You must be joking. Mac and U of O have impossibly high GPA requirements. Mac only takes a few CANADIAN students each year with GPA <3.8. U of O requires over 3.8 for out-of-province applicants. They also end up accepting only the very best of a highly qualified applicant pool. You have to be well-rounded e.g. elite athlete, curing cancer, saving the poor, etc. The reason Canadians come to the US for med school, and get scholarships to places like WashU, is that there aren't enough places in Canada for all the good Canadian students. They ignore the MCAT only because Canadians don't place as much stock in standardized tests (there is no equivalent of the SAT, for example).

There is simply no comparison btw Canadian schools and Caribbean.

 

[MeowMix]

OP, I don't know why you are so gloomy. Everything looks fine. So you got a crap PS score. Your overall is fine. If you applied on time to a wide enough range of schools, you are going to get in somewhere.

I would not waste time trying to do better on the MCAT. Go wherever you get in.

If you hate the numbers, you are going to hate med school and medicine, where everything is MCQ and standardized tests, and if you don't pass your board exams, you are never going to graduate, let alone get licensed. The MCAT is an important hoop: it filters out people who have trouble on standardized tests. You'll see them for the next 8 years or so, and recert exams after that. None of those exams care how nice a person you are. And they are much more expensive than the MCAT.

 

[student1799]

If you hate the numbers, you are going to hate med school and medicine, where everything is MCQ and standardized tests, and if you don't pass your board exams, you are never going to graduate, let alone get licensed. The MCAT is an important hoop: it filters out people who have trouble on standardized tests. You'll see them for the next 8 years or so, and recert exams after that. None of those exams care how nice a person you are. And they are much more expensive than the MCAT.

I understand that you're speaking from experience. But I'm frustrated with the MCAT, because this is the ONLY standardized test I've ever had trouble with. (I scored in the 99th percentile on the SAT and the GMAT, for business school. On top of that, I passed the CFA, a 3-year exam series for money managers that's so tough that only 25% of the candidates make it through in 3 years.) And even on the MCAT, it's just one section, and I'm not exactly a dummy in the underlying subjects (I averaged A-'s in chem and physics). I'm just a little too slow doing computation-heavy problems without a calculator--and only in the test center (I can manage it fine in my living room!). So I feel like I can't show what I know, even though I DO know it and have put in the work.

Please tell me if I'm wrong here, but I'd imagine that the board exams would be more like the bio or verbal section of the MCAT than the PS section. I did well in those areas, so I'm hopeful that I'd be able to tackle the boards successfully--if I ever got into med school.

 

[WaiWahine]

You must be joking. Mac and U of O have impossibly high GPA requirements. Mac only takes a few CANADIAN students each year with GPA <3.8. U of O requires over 3.8 for out-of-province applicants. They also end up accepting only the very best of a highly qualified applicant pool. You have to be well-rounded e.g. elite athlete, curing cancer, saving the poor, etc. The reason Canadians come to the US for med school, and get scholarships to places like WashU, is that there aren't enough places in Canada for all the good Canadian students. They ignore the MCAT only because Canadians don't place as much stock in standardized tests (there is no equivalent of the SAT, for example).

There is simply no comparison btw Canadian schools and Caribbean.

I wasn't joking, nor was I comparing Canadian schools with Caribbean, I was providing alternatives. McMaster does take students with high GPA's but it's minimum cutoff is 3.0 and it offers alternative streams for admissions as well (e.g. aboriginal).

I completely agree, there are not enough places in Canada for solid Canadian students.

 

[Nanon]

Student1799... NOOOOO!!! Stop that talk right this instant. I get it, but dude, I just got an interview. You are competing with the young'uns, but I think in a way we aren't competing by the same rules, and the rules are in our favor. We've actually lived long enough to know what we want, what we're capable of, and we have the writing skills to express it. You are already in it. It's either going to happen or it isn't. Don't spend too much time bringing a lot of negative energy into it, ok?

I'm so going to pm you tomorrow, but I need to sleep tonight.

S.

 

[OncoCaP]

Now would be a good time to build a network of people (wife, brother, etc.) you can talk to when you are upset about a problem or obstacle or whatever. You will get into a medical school; don't overthink this. Take a more sort-term perspective and think about what you can do now. Also, make sure you do something like regular exercise for stress relief.

 

[student1799]

Student1799... NOOOOO!!! Stop that talk right this instant. I get it, but dude, I just got an interview.

Now would be a good time to build a network of people (wife, brother, etc.) you can talk to when you are upset about a problem or obstacle or whatever.

Thanks a lot for the kind words, guys, but FYI, it's "dudette" and "husband." (I.e. I'm female.)🙂

 

[Barfalamule]

Get back up and keep fighting. I might be in the minority in saying this but even with a 35 MCAT, the 3.0 ugpa makes MD schools a hell of a mountain to climb. Your options are to give DO schools or the Caribbean a shot. Personally, I'd give the DO schools a try because they would go for someone like you, someone who has demonstrated that they can do well in school and do well on the MCAT (your score is still quite a bit above the average DO applicant). Apply to a few and at least go to the interviews if invited. You have nothing to lose here.
If you find that your heart is set on MD, then your final option and endgame play would be a retake of the MCAT and to do an SMP. This could get you into the MD school if you do well in both, but you're looking at another 2 years.

 

[Nanon]

Thanks a lot for the kind words, guys, but FYI, it's "dudette" and "husband." (I.e. I'm female.)🙂

I know. But I call everyone dude (dudette reminds me of smurfette, and I hated that chick... but I digress ).

Personally, I will go to any school that accepts me. I know so many great osteopaths, two of whom are residents in my surgery department! You'll totally get in somewhere - we both will. Hopefully at the same school!

S

 

[Lacheln]

You've got your secondaries done - the cards are on the table. I absolutely understand why you're depressed, but you have to do something to get your mind off of it - throw yourself into your volunteer work or exercise or SOMETHING.

As for the practicals - you know what I said about the MCAT, I think that still stands. I've heard that you have to have shadowed a DO in order to apply DO? If not, I think DO schools are definitely a good shot. The harsh reality though is that you have two numbers problems between the GPA and MCAT, which might be tough to overcome. I have my fingers crossed very hard for you though, and always feel free to vent. You don't have to make a decision about the next step yet.

 

[student1799]

Thank you to everyone for your advice, moral support and well-deserved kicks in the &ss--it was just what I needed. I've decided to stop moping around and try to improve my situation a little by adding more schools, as several of you have suggested. I'm not ready to go DO yet, and I'll NEVER be ready for the Caribbean (I'd definitely do DO first), but I think it would be wise to add a bunch of allo schools. My original list of 16 was constrained by geography, because I didn't want to leave my husband and kids for med school if I could help it. But I've already talked to my husband about this, and we'd already agreed that if I had to reapply next year, I'd have to look all over the country. After the comments on this thread last night, it occurred to me that if I was willing to do that next year. why not now?

I'm going to start another thread about adding schools, because I need a lot of logistical advice about how to do it, as well as feedback on the schools. I hope you all can contribute your accumulated wisdom, which has really been a godsend to me so far.

Thanks a lot, guys. I knew this community would help me find a way out of the dark cloud I was stuck in.

 

[MeowMix]

I'm just a little too slow doing computation-heavy problems without a calculator

Do not worry - the average med student has so much trouble doing math that only a tiny fraction of the USMLE questions require even basic addition/subtraction. The only exceptions are the biostatistics questions, and on a 350-q test, you'll only see a few.

 

[Gold 5]

Thank you to everyone for your advice, moral support and well-deserved kicks in the &ss--it was just what I needed. I've decided to stop moping around and try to improve my situation a little by adding more schools, as several of you have suggested. I'm not ready to go DO yet, and I'll NEVER be ready for the Caribbean (I'd definitely do DO first), but I think it would be wise to add a bunch of allo schools. My original list of 16 was constrained by geography, because I didn't want to leave my husband and kids for med school if I could help it. But I've already talked to my husband about this, and we'd already agreed that if I had to reapply next year, I'd have to look all over the country. After the comments on this thread last night, it occurred to me that if I was willing to do that next year. why not now?

I'm going to start another thread about adding schools, because I need a lot of logistical advice about how to do it, as well as feedback on the schools. I hope you all can contribute your accumulated wisdom, which has really been a godsend to me so far.

Thanks a lot, guys. I knew this community would help me find a way out of the dark cloud I was stuck in.

If your desire is to get into Med school no matter what next year, I would add DO schools to your list ASAP. DO schools usually love folks like you (IE former screw ups who have made good). It may be very difficult to land a residency in a prestigious allopathic residency but besides that you are a physician with all of the same rights and privileges in the US. Good luck in any case.