so what is the deal with you male surgeons?!

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Oh honey I completely agree with you on that one! We should very much be more lenient on those darn trolls

To clarify, by leniency I mean to avoid censuring trolls which BTW the current admins do well. Watching your initial post result in the predictable blowback above is entertaining. The current TOS as written are too prohibitive in my opinion.

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To clarify, by leniency I mean to avoid censuring trolls which BTW the current admins do well. Watching your initial post result in the predictable blowback above is entertaining. The current TOS as written are too prohibitive in my opinion.
Oh balaguru completely 100% agree with you and thank you ever so much for your support!
 
To clarify, by leniency I mean to avoid censuring trolls which BTW the current admins do well. Watching your initial post result in the predictable blowback above is entertaining. The current TOS as written are too prohibitive in my opinion.
Trolls are disruptive to the community and violate our mission statement.

However the leniency factor depends on a trolls goals/activities. Someone who purposely misleads users with false information or who is abusive to others will be removed much quicker than someone who is just fooling around. I have much more tolerance for the latter. But sockpuppeting, as in this case, is not allowed.

While the TOS may seem prohibitive, it was done so after observing what trolls and lack of moderation did to an otherwise good site, The Princeton Review.
 
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OP: if you're feeling insecure about taking orders, try a job that wasn't named after breastfeeding.
 
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OP: if you're feeling insecure about taking orders, try a job that wasn't named after breastfeeding.

This very inappropriate!!!
Nursing is an important profession and one of the most inportant factors in outcomes.

What they do is almost equivalent to NCO's in the military and they are a crucial component. An hospital will quickly suffer if the nursing staff is not competent.

Being a surgeon or a rocket scientist does not justify the above comment. Medicine has changed dramatically and we have to learn to play the game with the nursing staff as well as every one in the system.

Try admitting a patient to a non surgical floor and you will understand the value of good nursing

When you find yourself feeling superior to others in your practice read the lines below. This will show the right path..

There are no inferior jobs in any organization. No matter what the assigned task, if it is done well and with dignity, it contributes to the function of everything around it and should be valued accordingly by all.

Charles W. Mayo, M.D.
 
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This very inappropriate!!!
Nursing is an important profession and one of the most inportant factors in outcomes.

What they do is almost equivalent to NCO's in the military and they are a crucial component. An hospital will quickly suffer if the nursing staff is not competent.

Being a surgeon or a rocket scientist does not justify the above comment. Medicine has changed dramatically and we have to learn to play the game with the nursing staff as well as every one in the system.

Try admitting a patient to a non surgical floor and you will understand the value of good nursing

When you find yourself feeling superior to others in your practice read the lines below. This will show the right path..

There are no inferior jobs in any organization. No matter what the assigned task, if it is done well and with dignity, it contributes to the function of everything around it and should be valued accordingly by all.

Charles W. Mayo, M.D.
His comment was the truth though. If you don't want to take orders in regard to patient care, don't be a nurse, be a doctor. (But even then, you're going to be taking orders, so let's not even go there).

I agree with everything else you put though. Watch what happens to the hospital if the environmental services or supplies staff decides to strike for a week. Do you know where the trash ends up? Do the nurses? Do you know how to find boxes of IVs or bags of saline somewhere in the basement if the people that do it decide not to show up?
 
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His comment was the truth though. If you don't want to take orders in regard to patient care, don't be a nurse, be a doctor. (But even then, you're going to be taking orders, so let's not even go there).

I agree with everything else you put though. Watch what happens to the hospital if the environmental services or supplies staff decides to strike for a week. Do you know where the trash ends up? Do the nurses? Do you know how to find boxes of IVs or bags of saline somewhere in the basement if the people that do it decide not to show up?
Do you know what happens with no medical students?





**** gets done more efficiently....
 
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Doesn't patient satisfaction negatively correlate with patient outcomes... I guess I wouldn't tout that nurses score higher on patient satisfaction and instead tout metrics that actually make a difference on outcome...

What kind of nurse is working both the OR and wards? Doesn't seem legit, that was the straw that broke my back in believing this wasn't pure rubbish
 
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An interesting point that this thread brushed on but missed that I think needs to be discussed locally and nationally is the rise of the nurse. As a surgeon, son of a nurse turned internist and husband of a nurse I have observed some interesting things. The education of nursing has changed recently and the mindset is different. During my wife's commencement ceremony I listened to the Dean of nursing say "[... Providing as good and usually better care than the doctors who they work with...]". (Yes I ended with a preposition on purpose). She thinks this is nonsense but many of her classmates aspire to the new Doctor or Nursing degree because they feel they be equal and likely "better". They are trained to question. I have had many evening discussions with my wife about nursing and physician relations and one time she reminded me that a nurse who carries out a physician order exactly as written that ends up causing harm puts HER license on the line. Nurses lose their license much easier than physicians lose lawsuits and certainly easier than losing a medical license.

Of course every employee in the OR has an integral role. We had a sewer clog under our OR and it backed up. For that week, nobody was more important than the "sanitation engineers" trying to fix it, not even the surgeons. Everyone deserves respect.

Screw lawsuits, let's talk about who has to speak to the family after an event and who has to lose countless hours of sleep and who has to manage the complications assuming the event didn't cause death. Nobody else in the room. Everyone else is home drinking Busch Light.

I would venture to say that surgeons who treat people poorly are either: 1) stressed (most common I imagine and affects all of us from time to time, or 2) unhappy or depressed, or 3) a jerk. Probably similar to every professional field, medical or not.

Now, let's be clear, in reference to your first post: the surgeon is paying your salary- no surgeon, no patient, no hospital, no job, no career.
 
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An interesting point that this thread brushed on but missed that I think needs to be discussed locally and nationally is the rise of the nurse. As a surgeon, son of a nurse turned internist and husband of a nurse I have observed some interesting things. The education of nursing has changed recently and the mindset is different. During my wife's commencement ceremony I listened to the Dean of nursing say "[... Providing as good and usually better care than the doctors who they work with...]". (Yes I ended with a preposition on purpose). She thinks this is nonsense but many of her classmates aspire to the new Doctor or Nursing degree because they feel they be equal and likely "better". They are trained to question. I have had many evening discussions with my wife about nursing and physician relations and one time she reminded me that a nurse who carries out a physician order exactly as written that ends up causing harm puts HER license on the line. Nurses lose their license much easier than physicians lose lawsuits and certainly easier than losing a medical license.

Of course every employee in the OR has an integral role. We had a sewer clog under our OR and it backed up. For that week, nobody was more important than the "sanitation engineers" trying to fix it, not even the surgeons. Everyone deserves respect.

Screw lawsuits, let's talk about who has to speak to the family after an event and who has to lose countless hours of sleep and who has to manage the complications assuming the event didn't cause death. Nobody else in the room. Everyone else is home drinking Busch Light.

I would venture to say that surgeons who treat people poorly are either: 1) stressed (most common I imagine and affects all of us from time to time, or 2) unhappy or depressed, or 3) a jerk. Probably similar to every professional field, medical or not.

Now, let's be clear, in reference to your first post: the surgeon is paying your salary- no surgeon, no patient, no hospital, no job, no career.
Equal and "likely better".

I rearranged your quotes just to make one point. The " likely better" rationale is a hand wave that gets attached to a ton of statements that otherwise should read as a non-inferiority statement. We do it in medicine a lot as well when discussing the literature but the expansion of the mid level provider has thrived on this particular fallacy. The OP here did this as well when claiming that her job success was due nearly entirely to her being warm and fuzzy. That isn't the nurses job but here we are listening to a fresh nurse tell us that this is why she succeeds and we would fail at doing her job. Its complete garbage.
 
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Equal and "likely better".

I rearranged your quotes just to make one point. The " likely better" rationale is a hand wave that gets attached to a ton of statements that otherwise should read as a non-inferiority statement. We do it in medicine a lot as well when discussing the literature but the expansion of the mid level provider has thrived on this particular fallacy. The OP here did this as well when claiming that her job success was due nearly entirely to her being warm and fuzzy. That isn't the nurses job but here we are listening to a fresh nurse tell us that this is why she succeeds and we would fail at doing her job. Its complete garbage.


It thrives largely because those making policy decisions do not know how to critically evaluate a study. Those studies with CRNAs, etc are thrown around frequently, but even someone with a limited ability to assess the validity of a study can point out major flaws. Combine that with a well organized lobbying body and you have our current situation. Mid-levels do serve a purpose and can be quite helpful, but they need oversight. The training just isn't comprehensive. I've seen evidence of this a few times this year with NPs who have been at their post for decades. They're very good with that certain realm of medicine, but they don't know when to call for help. It's easy as an intern to call for help because you feel like you know nothing. You see a WBC count of 2.9 and call the lab for a peripheral smear. The mid level sees it in a stable patient and says "not high, no infection" and moves on, missing the incidental finding of leukemia (actual case). This is off topic from the OP.


Back on topic: stop hammer paging me about duplicate IDENTICAL diet orders when I FINALLY get to go to the OR (even though it's just a pilonidal). If a regular diet is ordered twice, clearly it's what the patient should be eating.
 
It thrives largely because those making policy decisions do not know how to critically evaluate a study. Those studies with CRNAs, etc are thrown around frequently, but even someone with a limited ability to assess the validity of a study can point out major flaws. Combine that with a well organized lobbying body and you have our current situation. Mid-levels do serve a purpose and can be quite helpful, but they need oversight. The training just isn't comprehensive. I've seen evidence of this a few times this year with NPs who have been at their post for decades. They're very good with that certain realm of medicine, but they don't know when to call for help. It's easy as an intern to call for help because you feel like you know nothing. You see a WBC count of 2.9 and call the lab for a peripheral smear. The mid level sees it in a stable patient and says "not high, no infection" and moves on, missing the incidental finding of leukemia (actual case). This is off topic from the OP.


Back on topic: stop hammer paging me about duplicate IDENTICAL diet orders when I FINALLY get to go to the OR (even though it's just a pilonidal). If a regular diet is ordered twice, clearly it's what the patient should be eating.
you clearly wanted the patient to get double portions
 
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Wow great thread! I have a question that needs answered. Why is it that female nurses treat female doctors/surgeons like crap? There are many a times when nurses talk down to me and treat me like I'm stupid just to have a male doctor walk by and all of a sudden eyelashes are batting and its "oh hi Doctor!"

I don't get it. Do you not want women to be doctors? Are you not proud hay there are women as doctors? I went into med school with the notion and attitude that I should treat all nurses with respect but TBH after med school I don't know what I think because the level of disrespect and bitchinesss I have received is ridiculous. So the next time you female nurses decide to treat me like a second class citizen, just remember that someday I write your orders, and maybe you'll have to say "yes sir" to me too.
 
This very inappropriate!!!
Nursing is an important profession and one of the most inportant factors in outcomes.

What they do is almost equivalent to NCO's in the military and they are a crucial component. An hospital will quickly suffer if the nursing staff is not competent.

Being a surgeon or a rocket scientist does not justify the above comment. Medicine has changed dramatically and we have to learn to play the game with the nursing staff as well as every one in the system.

Try admitting a patient to a non surgical floor and you will understand the value of good nursing

When you find yourself feeling superior to others in your practice read the lines below. This will show the right path..

There are no inferior jobs in any organization. No matter what the assigned task, if it is done well and with dignity, it contributes to the function of everything around it and should be valued accordingly by all.

Charles W. Mayo, M.D.


:)
 
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Fter a decade of harassment by the nurse, scrub tech, nursing assist, and janitor, the surgeon finally gets to let it out. Just let it be. We know you have enough fun picking on the med students and residents!
 
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