As for ERAS each application in speciality you didn't apply before for main match is $95 whether its 1 app or 10. Apps you have applied for previously are $/app basis.
Not really. I Matched EM. Loved seeing MD's with far inferior Board Scores/Class Rank etc get triple the # of interviews I got from arguably better programs, not to mention there are a decent amount of EM programs that dont even interview DO's.
The point is moot though because of the merger that is coming up.
I would argue that at this point for Surgical Subspecialties it is better to be a DO. I have a ton of classmates that matched Ortho, Optho, ENT, Urology that would not have matched those fields outside of the DO match. Im talking about people who have board scores/grades that wouldnt have even got them into an MD EM residency and now they are going to be an Ortho.
Once the merger happens that all goes away though.
Each of those programs will likely have their own preferences regarding how they want to receive applications. Check their website for application instructions first. If you don't find anything on the residency program page, call--they might have application instructions on their voice mail message. If there are still no instructions, email. Since ERAS costs $$, I'd find out the application criteria and method before blindly applying.I had a question regarding contacting programs that didn't participate in SOAP (grey boxes in NRMP unfilled spots link). Are they also only considering applications through ERAS? My dean was under the impression that I could just email non-SOAP participating programs. Any help please
Is DO becoming a better investment than MD? I don't think that there is any question that ceiling may not be as high (though DOs do match at elite programs)...the floor is higher. There is going to be a 100% match rate for DOs this year, unless the DOs decide to not match by choice.
AOA Post Match site
http://cf.osteopathic.org/aoapostmatch/students/index.cfm
It sounds like 20 didn't get anything in SOAP and subsequently scrambled into the AOA. Everyone in my class that I'm aware of who went unmatched got something in SOAP.
It's getting very tight!
According to the NRMP, there were ~790 DO's eligible for the SOAP last year and ~120 got spots if I remember correctly. That's ~15%. USMD's had about ~30% (600 out of 2000) finding a position. US Grads were <10% and US IMG's odds were absolutely dismal, with FMG's faring the worst.
My point is that, statistically, most DO's (85%) who are SOAP eligible don't find a spot in SOAP and have to take an open AOA spot. Fortunately there are literally hundreds of AOA spots still available only to DO's at that time in diverse specialties. Unfortunately, these spots will be opening up to USMD's and IMG's soon (2017 or 2018 I'm guessing) and likely won't be around come post-SOAP time anymore for those and future graduating classes.
According to conversations I've had with Carib students I rotate with, IMG's and their schools are well aware this is coming and are actively preparing to target these spots, so they won't be going unfilled for much longer.
Good info, it will be interesting to see what the numbers look like this year.
I can only speak anecdotally, but 75% of the folks I'm aware of from my class who were SOAPing found spots in the first round.
And as for the AOA spots opening to USMD's and IMG's/FMG's. It's pretty much certain that these programs will still require a yet undetermined demonstration of OMM proficiency before applying, perhaps it will be an elective course and exam that non-DO's must pass or something along those lines, but I don't expect those positions to just fill with IMG's and USMD's like some do.
Additionally, DO's have been discriminated against for decades in the GME system, I fully expect DO PD's to hold on to bias of their own for a long time. Those scars run deep.
Good points. The OMM component and DO discrimination should blunt the effect for several years at least, but I fully expect the big Carib schools to hire DO's and start offering OMM as a part of their curriculum (maybe as electives) if necessary to meet any requirements. The classes of 2017-2019 will likely only be minimally affected, but after that it will be much worse, I expect.
Congrats on finding a great spot in the SOAP by the way!
Is DO becoming a better investment than MD? I don't think that there is any question that ceiling may not be as high (though DOs do match at elite programs)...the floor is higher. There is going to be a 100% match rate for DOs this year, unless the DOs decide to not match by choice.
On one hand, when you look deeper most of the unfilled programs are small 200 bed, 40k year ED visit hospitals in cold territory. Will they provide adequate training? Sure. Are we talking the high volume, high pathology county or university hospitals that makes up the average ACGME program? More often then not, no.
On the other hand, a job is a job.
I think that wins out.
The thing that would scare me most if I was if I was in the class of 2018 or beyond would be that if I went to one of those "a job is a job" places and it couldn't meet the ACGME standards before the deadline in 5 years that my residency would be disbanded before I could finish.
And I single out 2018 because that's the class that would have the shorter residencies in FM, Peds, and IM cancelled when they were second year residents.
The job is the foundation of your career. Take a shady low acuity and/or malignant program and you might find yourself regretting it for a loooong time.I think that wins out.
The job is the foundation of your career. Take a shady low acuity and/or malignant program and you might find yourself regretting it for a loooong time.
If you're a fair candidate that didn't match for any number of reasons and can improve your application, scrambling into some crap residency that barely meets accreditation standards and case minimums is probably not the best way to start a career. I'd take my chances next year first. You want solid training before you go out and take on the liability and responsibility of being an attending.
That is awfulIn this cycle, 43.6% of allopathic medical school graduates matched to a PGY-1. That is the lowest of all categories possible, including non-US IMGs.
I wouldn't recommend that strategy for a surgical specialty or anesthesia. You are doing yourself a big disservice if you're not doing challenging cases regularly. Some programs barely meet their numbers or do so only by sending people away to other programs for specialty months. You don't get great being brow beaten by a bunch of hacks while you do endless lap choles and wound debridements from the local shady nursing home. I'm not sure I would take a preliminary year either. That's a dead end.I dont agree with this one bit..the crappiest worst ranked program will give you the opporrunity to become a great doctor, at some places you just might have to put in more effort. There is no guarantee that you will match next year so if you are offered something, ANYTHING, this cycle you should take it!
I'm not exactly sure what that statistic represents.In this cycle, 43.6% of allopathic medical school graduates matched to a PGY-1. That is the lowest of all categories possible, including non-US IMGs.
41.7% of all Non-USMGs did not match this year. Looking at the NRMP match data compared to 5.5% USMGs who did not match.
What are you referring to? US seniors had an overall match of 93.9% based upon the data tables.In this cycle, 43.6% of allopathic medical school graduates matched to a PGY-1. That is the lowest of all categories possible, including non-US IMGs.
I wouldn't recommend that strategy for a surgical specialty or anesthesia. You are doing yourself a big disservice if you're not doing challenging cases regularly. Some programs barely meet their numbers or do so only by sending people away to other programs for specialty months. You don't get great being brow beaten by a bunch of hacks while you do endless lap choles and wound debridements from the local shady nursing home. I'm not sure I would take a preliminary year either. That's a dead end.
My comments, as noted above, wouldn't apply to FMGs, poor students, or other red flag candidates that may need to take whatever they can get and try to jump start their application and their career.
What are you referring to? US seniors had an overall match of 93.9% based upon the data tables.
Edit: I see they are referring to those graduated already and the figure is correct. 13.3% submitted no rank list though.
I'm not exactly sure what that statistic represents.
If the soap, isn't that because the vast majority of us allopathic students matched already and, excepting the marginal Derm and optho kind of guys reaching for the stars, and only the red flag candidates remained?
link?
You're looking at the data wrong.
#1. This is the "lowest" of all possible categories, except it is in and of itself a unique category. This is the only category where they separate out previous graduates. For IMG, DO, etc it includes current students and previous graduates.
To come up with an equivalent statistic for US-MDs, you would need to add the 1520 previous US-MD grads to the 18025 current US-MD seniors, and then add the 662 grads who matched PGY-1 to the 16932 current students who matched. This would give you a 90% matched PGY-1 rate for all US-MD applicants (grads + seniors).
#2. The notes state:
"Applicants who ranked only PGY-2 and Physician (R) programs are counted as unmatched in this table because they did not match to a PGY-1 position."
This tremendously skews the pool since a number of these previous graduates of US-MD schools are already in PGY-1 positions (prelim years).
In no way am I being antagonistic here... but majority of AMG's simply don't want to pursue residency in fields like primary care, psych, path or pm&r etc. Which is balanced out by the foreign grads and do's who ARE willing to apply to and pursue careers in those perceived "less prestigious" (and less lucrative) fields
I think people should also see that US-IMGs decreased this year, but they had about the same percent who matched their first choice as AMG's. That is pretty significant, even if the overall number is smaller. The truth is that most US-IMGs who don't match went to fly-by-night schools who aren't accredited in all 50 states and other issues. The vast majority who go to Ross, AUC, and SGU have match success.
Versus not having a job? Really?
Although you are right in your statement. The notion of 'all other' IMGs are from fly by night schools are not good candidates is wrong. They ALL take the same USMLEs and have relatively the same clinical rotations. The only benefit these three schools have is that they have been around for a long time, have federal loans, which enables them to bring in more students, and have more revenue which enables them to 'out perform' others.
YES. Trust me on this one. I speak from experience.
I think people should also see that US-IMGs decreased this year, but they had about the same percent who matched their first choice as AMG's. That is pretty significant, even if the overall number is smaller. The truth is that most US-IMGs who don't match went to fly-by-night schools who aren't accredited in all 50 states and other issues. The vast majority who go to Ross, AUC, and SGU have match success.
Not true, IMO. Many programs filter out IMGs by only allowing certain school names in. I went to one school and transferred to another, so I know for a fact my old school has never gotten interviews at places my new school does every year. Some programs told me directly they don't take students from any of the other schools. They know what they are getting out of the big 3, and the standardized tests alone don't give them enough confidence to know what their clinical experience is from other schools. Again, first hand I can tell you by rotating with MANY other Carib schools, their clinical experience was a joke and they know it. I've met students who never set foot in a hospital while in med school.
YES. Trust me on this one. I speak from experience.
Maybe it's just me, but I always felt the SOAP thread is not the place to boast your success and criticize others.
Not true, IMO. Many programs filter out IMGs by only allowing certain school names in. I went to one school and transferred to another, so I know for a fact my old school has never gotten interviews at places my new school does every year. Some programs told me directly they don't take students from any of the other schools. They know what they are getting out of the big 3, and the standardized tests alone don't give them enough confidence to know what their clinical experience is from other schools. Again, first hand I can tell you by rotating with MANY other Carib schools, their clinical experience was a joke and they know it. I've met students who never set foot in a hospital while in med school.
I would say there are 3-4 schools outside of Ross, AUC, and SGU that have good graduates, i.e. MUA, SABA, UMHS, AUA, St. Matthews. Outside of those programs, you will struggle to get a match without some sort of connection or audition rotation.