SOAP 2015

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Does anyone have any advice for IMGs or FMGs on how to get observerships? I have found a few lists of schools that say they offer observerships but so far, bust. If those who didn't match this year are to try improve their application and try again, how can we do that if we don't get the opportunity to get the right experiences? :(
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nimmikhan2014 said:
Does anyone have any advice for IMGs or FMGs on how to get observerships? I have found a few lists of schools that say they offer observerships but so far, bust. If those who didn't match this year are to try improve their application and try again, how can we do that if we don't get the opportunity to get the right experiences? :(
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nimmikhan, all the people I know either had close friends/family/some connection who put in a word at their program which was already IMG friendly to allow the observership, or they applied to these paid rotational observership programs which were pretty expensive and didn't guarantee anything. you basically have to find IMG friendly places and sympathetic docs (I would say who themselves are IMG or have some close connection to other IMG docs)
 
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Gastrapathy said:
You aren't getting it. Rather than process what I wrote, you attacked the messenger. I wasn't the PD who told you how impressed she was and then didn't rank you (hypothetical but we see it every year in this thread). I despise that sort of dishonesty because it leaves applicants to make bad decisions. What I'm trying to get you to see is how your app is perceived and why you can't pass up the chance to return to your first program if it still exists.

You see yourself as having one minor red flag and I see three major ones. I have no reason to believe this will impact your ability to be a great physician but it will impact your ability to match.

You quit before (that's as bad as failing). You are a risk to quit again no matter what you say.

You failed a step. You are at risk to fail your boards. Programs get in trouble for board failures.

You've been out of clinical medicine for 2 years. It's hard to pick right up. This is one you can find a way to ameliorate.

Although some PDs may disagree, I don't believe any of this has anything to do with the quality of physician you will be.

Good luck next time. I sincerely hope you find a way back in.
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I appreciate the well wishes, but you still aren't getting it either. I KNOW I have more than one red flag. I KNOW what my weaknesses are. I already KNOW why I'm having a hard time finding opportunities to get back in. I KNOW ALL THIS!! I don't need to process your less-than-astute presumptions because I've been processing what I already know for THREE DAMN YEARS!! I only shared details of my situation to commiserate with others who feel like their lives are over, to help alleviate some of their hopelessness and despair. I was not looking for insight from anyone into my situation. I'm glad you realize none of this had any implication on what kind of physician I know I can (and hopefully will) be. I just have to find a PD who sees me not as a "problem", as you so eloquently labeled me, but as potential for greatness. I still sometimes believe I have it. I'm sure others will see it too.
 
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j4pac said:
I'm with you. I have really tried to give her the benefit of the doubt...but my interest in this situation is dwindling. You can't do residency at your own pace. The motivation for quitting seems to fluctuate...from hating her residency program, from entering a field she never wanted to enter, to her family needing her. My family needs me...to work. Unfortunately, your actions of the past effect the options for the future. That's called life. Life's not meant to be fair...but it is just.
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Well thank you SOOO much for that benefit. Despite not originally wanting to go into FM, I sucked it up and seized the opportunity to learn as much as I could. Ended up realizing that FM is where I belong after all. Despite being stuck in an opposed program with extremely malignant rotations, I did the best I could not to burn any bridges and leave on the best terms possible with those who would help me get back into residency when the time was right. The ultimate reason I left was to take care of my children. Everything else was secondary. I'm not doing a little residency here and there. I am only reapplying now because I KNOW I am committed to finishing. I have my husband safe at home, no longer being shot at on a daily basis, no longer worrying about whether or not I'm going to be a widow next week and my children fatherless. So yes, I took some time off. For my family. And now I'm ready to go back. I never asked you to feel sorry for me, but I would ask that you don't EVER question a mother's commitment to her family over all else -- especially a military wife!
 
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This thread is f*****g hilarious! It's like an episode of Maury. I'm almost out of popcorn.
 
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docmama said:
Well thank you SOOO much for that benefit. Despite not originally wanting to go into FM, I sucked it up and seized the opportunity to learn as much as I could. Ended up realizing that FM is where I belong after all. Despite being stuck in an opposed program with extremely malignant rotations, I did the best I could not to burn any bridges and leave on the best terms possible with those who would help me get back into residency when the time was right. The ultimate reason I left was to take care of my children. Everything else was secondary. I'm not doing a little residency here and there. I am only reapplying now because I KNOW I am committed to finishing. I have my husband safe at home, no longer being shot at on a daily basis, no longer worrying about whether or not I'm going to be a widow next week and my children fatherless. So yes, I took some time off. For my family. And now I'm ready to go back. I never asked you to feel sorry for me, but I would ask that you don't EVER question a mother's commitment to her family over all else -- especially a military wife!
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You have repeatedly posted things that lead people to believe that you either 1) don't get why this is happening to you and/or 2) need advice. SDN isn't a place where we usually coddle one another, so you got some relatively unbiased feedback from someone and used the military wife card? What the actual ****?
 
My IMG friend work as a medical transcriptionist, and help type up SOAP notes in doctor office.

Chicago2012 said:
In regards to this, what are some good options for someone who cannot afford to not be working but still needs to keep up their skills?
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I question many mother's commitments to their families on a daily basis. Several times a week I have to stop my brief discussion about the risks and benefits of my anesthetic plan because of text messages, inane calls, or the Facebook.
 
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docmama said:
Well thank you SOOO much for that benefit. Despite not originally wanting to go into FM, I sucked it up and seized the opportunity to learn as much as I could. Ended up realizing that FM is where I belong after all. Despite being stuck in an opposed program with extremely malignant rotations, I did the best I could not to burn any bridges and leave on the best terms possible with those who would help me get back into residency when the time was right. The ultimate reason I left was to take care of my children. Everything else was secondary. I'm not doing a little residency here and there. I am only reapplying now because I KNOW I am committed to finishing. I have my husband safe at home, no longer being shot at on a daily basis, no longer worrying about whether or not I'm going to be a widow next week and my children fatherless. So yes, I took some time off. For my family. And now I'm ready to go back. I never asked you to feel sorry for me, but I would ask that you don't EVER question a mother's commitment to her family over all else -- especially a military wife!
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You are preaching at the wrong guy. I am third generation Navy and my mom worked two jobs to provide for my brother, sister, and me while my dad was on frequent deployments, only my mom was in her teens while doing so. We were dirt poor...my parents frequently donated plasma to put food on the table. Somehow, someway, she made it work. I have never heard my mom make an excuse in her life. You have to do what you have to do to support your family.
 
Docmama
I think you are frustrated, mad and in quite a lot of pain over the whole process.
Have you considered any counseling to help you through the process?
I wish you only the best.
 
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IlDestriero said:
I question many mother's commitments to their families on a daily basis. Several times a week I have to stop my brief discussion about the risks and benefits of my anesthetic plan because of text messages, inane calls, or the Facebook.
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Yeah but you started in the .mil and we have some special ones.

See Terminal Lance 13FEB15.
 
All right I'm done. This is no longer a productive thread for me but I'm glad you all got some giggles at my expense. Yes my pain and frustration is absolutely hilarious. "Unbiased feedback" my ass. Yes, repeatedly calling me a failure and reminding me how hopeless my situation is and questioning my sincerity is so objective and helpful. You all have nice lives. I have better things to do with my time, like spending time with my kids between studying for step 3.
 
Gastrapathy said:
Yeah but you started in the .mil and we have some special ones.

See Terminal Lance 13FEB15.
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If you were referring to me with that terminal lance post, you are an even bigger a$$hole than I pegged you for. You have no business being any kind of physician if this is how you really see people.
 
GoWiththeFlo said:
Docmama
I think you are frustrated, mad and in quite a lot of pain over the whole process.
Have you considered any counseling to help you through the process?
I wish you only the best.
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Yes I have. Been through therapy and am still on the meds. I came here to share and help where I could, but obviously ripping open old wounds and poking them with sharp sticks is just hilariously good times for some here, and now that I've seen the kind of people who frequent these boards, I will see myself out.
 
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Hey gi2014
Go back and read some of her posts, some of the sentences end with a question mark.
Who died and made you king/queen? This is a forum, if she or you do not like the ideas, then move on.
I love your latin since you are holier than thou. It's really good that you came along and saved the day for all of us, thanks.
 
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gi2014 said:
Before you respond, do some introspection. Have you helped this person? And before you say yes because you were honest with her and shot straight with her instead of blowing sunshine and rainbows up wherever, were your posts so profound that they just had to be said, or could you have kept your mout shut and saved this person some distress? If you couldn't recognize her distress, and been the bigger person and kept your mouth shut, it's not she who is the failure.
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She has been venting for about ten pages now. If she didn't want people to respond or provide, she would have quit by now. People took that as her looking for help...people tried to give help. She told them she didn't want help...and continued...and continued. There is no victim in this situation...you need to get off your soapbox.
 
gi2014 said:
Do you guys actually think you are being helpful here? Is it that hard to keep you mouths shut? This is obviously a person under quite a bit of stress. Is your "tough love" really an attempt to help her or just self serving gratification (don't answer that, I doubt you can objectively)? Has the sum total of your posts been beneficial or harmful to her well being? Are your posts so intensely profound they have aroused an epiphany in her way of thinking? Regardless if you were right or wrong, again, is it that difficult for you to see your posts are not helping this person in a precarious state. She is right, she never solicited your advice.

Primum non nocere. Heard of it? Next time just go ask your wife to confirm how clever you are.

Before you respond, do some introspection. Have you helped this person? And before you say yes because you were honest with her and shot straight with her instead of blowing sunshine and rainbows up wherever, were your posts so profound that they just had to be said, or could you have kept your mout shut and saved this person some distress? If you couldn't recognize her distress, and been the bigger person and kept your mouth shut, it's not she who is the failure.
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I think she's gotten a significant amount of constructive criticism that she is taking as personal attacks. It seems like posters are trying to helpfully play devils advocate and talk about things from the other point of view-the places she had applied- and the instead of focusing on that, shes turning it into a drama filled situation it just isn't.

If I spent pages and pages posting about my story and why I wasn't getting in to program XYZ, I would expect that people would start to pick apart my app/educational past and offer their views. It's nothing personal. This is an online forum, I thought everyone knew that's how things work.


Guess not
 
If you manage to fail 3/9 rotations in a FM residency I think you should get the message that something non-clinical is better for everyone.
 
throwawayuser said:
This thread is f*****g hilarious! It's like an episode of Maury. I'm almost out of popcorn.
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13b9fbcd0d6da5294b1e74416629d2ec.jpg
 
Can everyone just please stop? It was never my intention to hijack this thread! I realize I should never have said anything about my situation in the first place. I said I was stepping out and yet it has continued! There are other people who were following this thread who may still be in need of genuine help and suggestions, and none of this helping anyone! Geez, someone comes to my defense and you jump all over them, too! A career in medicine is difficult enough as it is -- why do we have to abuse each other in the name of "playing Devil's advocate" to "offer constructive criticism" and make it even more painful? I am going to write to an admin to try to get this entire page deleted. I just don't need the reminders of why I personally suck, and I am embarrassed to be associated with this "discussion." I don't want any part of it any more and I don't want my online presence associated with any of this. I apologize for instigating and exacerbating this mess. Please forgive me and forget I said anything.
 
docmama said:
Can everyone just please stop? It was never my intention to hijack this thread! I realize I should never have said anything about my situation in the first place. I said I was stepping out and yet it has continued! There are other people who were following this thread who may still be in need of genuine help and suggestions, and none of this helping anyone! Geez, someone comes to my defense and you jump all over them, too! A career in medicine is difficult enough as it is -- why do we have to abuse each other in the name of "playing Devil's advocate" to "offer constructive criticism" and make it even more painful? I am going to write to an admin to try to get this entire page deleted. I just don't need the reminders of why I personally suck, and I am embarrassed to be associated with this "discussion." I don't want any part of it any more and I don't want my online presence associated with any of this. I apologize for instigating and exacerbating this mess. Please forgive me and forget I said anything.
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Actively participates in thread for 20+ pages.

Says: I don't want my online presence associated with this.

10/10 please be real
 
throwawayuser said:
Actively participates in thread for 20+ pages.

Says: I don't want my online presence associated with this.

10/10 please be real
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Didn't have a problem being associated with this thread until this page.

10/10 Please learn how to read and extrapolate.
 
@docmama Are you a US grad? Did pass your steps on 1st attempt? what are the scores? Did you have bad clinical eval? Are you restricted to a particular geographic location?
 
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W19 said:
@docmama Are you a US grad? Did pass your steps on 1st attempt? what are the scores? Did you have bad clinical eval? Are you restricted to a particular geographic location?
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I appreciate your interest but I don't want this thread to be about me anymore. If you are genuine in wanting to help me, feel free to start up a private convo.
 
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bbg1951 said:
So to refocus the thread... I would definitely love to get some guidance.... I started a thread to ask what I should do next titled "am I match worthy?" but got crickets....

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/am-i-match-worthy.1127211/
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I don't like the idea of referring to yourself as "worthy" of matching. Do you have an MD or a DO? Then you're worthy. Now, if your scores are low, or you've failed courses/rotations, then you'll have more to overcome of course. It can be done. I'd say if you're less competitive, make sure you apply to at least 50 programs, or more depending on what specialty you're looking at. Don't limit yourself geographically and make sure you get some good, strong, sincere LORs. Also, make sure you have a really good PS. Despite my less-than-competitive scores, I always get compliments on my PS -- like it's the main reason I get interviews in the first place. Lastly, I recommend you pick ten programs or so that you are most interested in attending. Learn everything you can about them. Then send an email to the PD after submitting your application and tell them why you want THEIR program, specifically. Best of luck -- and don't ever doubt your worth. You've *earned* this as much as anyone else!
 
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docmama said:
Pretty sure I'm not the one who has violated any rules of the forum. Thanks for adding insult to injury though. Have a nice day.
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Yet you are the one that keeps replying to this thread after having repeatadly stated that you do not wish to continue the conversation. Talk about adding fuel to the fire.
 
Lord_Vader said:
Yet you are the one that keeps replying to this thread after having repeatadly stated that you do not wish to continue the conversation. Talk about adding fuel to the fire.
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If you have concerns about any poster, you can always click on the "report" button at the bottom of any post. I agree with docmama in that I can't see where she's violated any forum rules or should be banned. It's also a bit odd that someone who just joined last month and only has 36 posts knows who should be banned on this forum. If you find a particular poster objectionable, you can always ignore them.
 
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It's sad how on online forums people sometimes get ganged up on. I think docmama did a good job holding her own. And in all fairness, the only reason she talked so much about herself was because people kept asking her. Everybody was venting here and sharing their story. When she shared her's, people kept asking her to elaborate maybe because it was unique and that is how so much of her story came out. I hope I won't face an onslaught now for having defended her.
 
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Obviously this topic raises a lot of emotions for people. We ask that you keep your comments civil, professional and on topic. If you wish to avoid reading other's comments because you find them insensitive, please place them on Ignore as noted above.
 
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bbg1951 said:
So to refocus the thread... I would definitely love to get some guidance.... I started a thread to ask what I should do next titled "am I match worthy?" but got crickets....

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/am-i-match-worthy.1127211/
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You are definitely "Match Worthy"! I hope that someone with more wisdom and knowledge than I can come back to you with advice on how to improve your application for next year.
Aside from taking the Step 3, I do not know what kind of jobs/clinical experience/research would be ideal.
 
Situational depression is normal, SI is not. If you really feel that way you need professional help ASAP. You have options and time to build your application. Interest will accrue, but your career will be long.
Get a research job with an academic anesthesia program if you can. Be engaged and work hard and you could get a publication and solid LOR.
Call every program with a residency. You can call all the ICU fellowships as well, as anesthesia and critical care are not always the same department. We regularly hire students to work for a year or two as they buff their applications to medical school, I'm sure you could find a job somewhere. And look into plan B as well. Kill an IM residency and the door will open up at the fellowship level with superior scores and strong LORs.
 
IlDestriero said:
Situational depression is normal, SI is not. If you really feel that way you need professional help ASAP. You have options and time to build your application. Interest will accrue, but your career will be long.
Get a research job with an academic anesthesia program if you can. Be engaged and work hard and you could get a publication and solid LOR.
Call every program with a residency. You can call all the ICU fellowships as well, as anesthesia and critical care are not always the same department. We regularly hire students to work for a year or two as they buff their applications to medical school, I'm sure you could find a job somewhere. And look into plan B as well. Kill an IM residency and the door will open up at the fellowship level with superior scores and strong LORs.
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Man, I wish it were that easy with Family Medicine but its hard to make a living in the mean time and still pad up my CV
 
Checking in w/ the SOAP folks.

I too have been trying to find some gap experience opportunities and have been unsuccessful. I do really feel for everyone as I am in a similar situation. But it is troublesome SI is not good. Please get help if it persists. Anyone can vent to me over PM if you want. I'll probably do the same.

In my research, I believe taking Step 3 and showing a continued upward trend in Step scores will help a great many of us. That might be a problem if you rocked CK and have a +250, but I'm sure a lot of us are in the 230 range, so that or slightly better is enough. I've been channelling my (sad) emotions positively and am studying. It would be a good idea to take Step 3 before August so that the score shows up on your USMLE transcript.

My LOR writers have been wonderful. They all point out to me that this is a set-back. One of them referred to not matching as "a yield sign, not a stop sign." But they are all w/ me and offering their support. Reach out to them.

It's tough. I know. But I also know there's a part of me who knows I am on par w/ my successful counterparts. And YES, even some "lesser" classmates who may not be as intelligent but really shined during interviews. (In fact I know the board scores and GPA etc of one of my gal pals, and they aren't terrific, but she is genuinely easy going and fun to be around. I'm sure she was ranked high [at lower tier programs where she matched at her #1] because of her great personality).

No one is perfect, so remember you did NOT interview perfectly. Reflect. Find where you weren't awesome. And work to fix it. And go back to the Match grind next year BETTER! As a result of this. As physicians we are (or should be) always looking to improve ourselves. I've dusted myself off and am ready to go back to work!! Join me!

Good luck un-Matched comrades!!!!!!
 
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I have a question about Step 3. My scores were 233 step 1 and 227 step 2. I didn't match into general surgery this year. I realize my step 2 is a little low which doesn't look good. Should I take Step 3 before September to improve my chances? Can I do well on Step 3 without being an intern for 6 months?

I'm still trying to find out why I didn't match. I have friends with similar board scores who matched with less ranked programs that were more competitive than mine. I was told I had great interviews. Just confused.

Also is it a smart move to email the programs I did interview at and let them know I didn't match but I'm still interested in their program and to keep me in mind if a PGY2 spot becomes available? I'm wondering is there were programs maybe I was on the cusp of matching that might still be interested?
 
TheOcean said:
I have a question about Step 3. My scores were 233 step 1 and 227 step 2. I didn't match into general surgery this year. I realize my step 2 is a little low which doesn't look good. Should I take Step 3 before September to improve my chances? Can I do well on Step 3 without being an intern for 6 months?

I'm still trying to find out why I didn't match. I have friends with similar board scores who matched with less ranked programs that were more competitive than mine. I was told I had great interviews. Just confused.

Also is it a smart move to email the programs I did interview at and let them know I didn't match but I'm still interested in their program and to keep me in mind if a PGY2 spot becomes available? I'm wondering is there were programs maybe I was on the cusp of matching that might still be interested?
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You can definitely pass Step 3 without the intern year. It may require a little more studying (and definitely more practice with the clinical scenario questions), but it can be done and done well, especially given your previous step scores. I'd say give yourself a couple months to study and definitely take it. The new format makes the scores more delayed than they used to be, so I'd recommend taking it by the beginning of July, if possible. Also, cough up the money and subscribe to both www.residentswap.com and the AAMC's findaresident.com. These are updated with fair regularity, and if a spot is going to be extended outside the program itself, it will most likely be posted on one (or both) of these sites. If you don't have the money for both, I'd say residentswap is more utilized by PDs, but a three-month subscription is $80, whereas a subscription to findaresident is $75 for the entire match season (one year). I would also stay in contact with programs you are most interested in and most likely to apply to and/or competitive enough to match. If you are within commutable distance, I'd recommend making yourself a presence in the area. Make connections with docs who have connections to the programs. Volunteer to scribe. Clean rat cages or babysit beakers, if you can find anyone in research with connections to the programs. Make contact at least once a month. Make yourself heard -- don't be a nuisance, of course, but let them know you are committed. I have found from those I've talked to that PDs are more interested in who a person is and what their motivations are rather than "just" scores (although those are certainly important, and you already have good ones). My scores aren't great, and while I haven't gotten an offer yet, I've gotten lots of interest and interviews, and I'm always told it's because of my LORs, my PS, and my personality. So don't underestimate those in yourself! Best of luck to you, it sounds like you'll be fine :)!
 
Is it possible to match with a low Step 1 score? The student passed first time but the score is low! Wants to be a family medicine doctor!
 
Hopefulness said:
Is it possible to match with a low Step 1 score? The student passed first time but the score is low! Wants to be a family medicine doctor!
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Sure. It's possible, but the details of the applicant matter. Such as: how low is low? IMG vs AMG? step 2 score?
 
I've seen some PGY1 spots open up. Get on resident swap.org all my unmatched peeps!
 
Is there a way for people who did not participate in the match/soap this year to now see a list of the programs that were offered in the soap?
 
Find the Match data 2015 on NRMP. Then see all the programs. There is two columns, Quota and Matched. See the programs w/ * next to matched number. Boom.
 
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