SOAP 2015

[PMRMD2B]

Yes.. and the same reason some US schools have better reputations, some residency programs do, etc. They have years and years of proven success and therefore they SHOULD get more opportunities. If you went to Harvard, I would hope you would get more job offers (admission to grad school, etc), than someone who went to some unknown state school in Utah. Grades and step scores aside, people know what type of person they are getting from a Harvard grad, because the school has proven this for years. If step scores were all that mattered, there wouldn't be a 45% match rate on foreign IMGs, since many of them well outscore US graduates and many already have MDs and practiced medicine. So, they should have 100% match rate based on qualification alone.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Mass Effect]

Maybe.. just maybe, the SOAP is over and I was replying to other's comments on the same topic of certain IMGs not matching, etc. (yet I don't see you quoting their posts). Second, did this post in any form boast my success or criticize anyone? I'll make this easy for you, the answer is NO. I guess some don't like to read facts if they don't like the way the information makes you feel.

A lot of your posts in this thread have been about you patting yourself on the back while criticizing others, including the ones quoted above. The "information" you posted doesn't make me feel any particular way since I matched last year and am already in residency. I have no horse in this race. I just call a spade a spade and you've been obnoxious since your first post in this thread bashing US MDs for making you feel inferior. And with that said, feel free to have the last word. I have no intention of arguing with someone so deficient in basic social skills.

 

[IlDestriero]

This thread, and the match statistics continue to prove what most knew all along. Going abroad for a medical degree is a gamble. A very expensive gamble. One would be better off taking a year or two off and concentrating on retaking classes that are dragging down their science GPA and improving their MCAT. The DO is what many of these folks should be concentrating on.

 

[PMRMD2B]

A lot of your posts in this thread have been about you patting yourself on the back while criticizing others, including the ones quoted above. The "information" you posted doesn't make me feel any particular way since I matched last year and am already in residency. I have no horse in this race. I just call a spade a spade and you've been obnoxious since your first post in this thread bashing US MDs for making you feel inferior. And with that said, feel free to have the last word. I have no intention of arguing with someone so deficient in basic social skills.

Such a big person to talk crap over the internet. Maybe when you move out of your mom's house you can come look me up and we will talk face to face. You say you call a spade a spade, but you just don't like it when I did the same. If I wanted to bash someone or pat myself on the back, I could easily. You are insignificant to me, about as much as crap on toilet paper. And.. for your knowledge, no US student ever made me feel inferior, they only acted superior. Which is ok, because many of them are now asking if I can help them get some position to help them match next year. When you get out of your family medicine residency, call me, I may give you a job. I love doctors like you, in my hospital administration days, I used to put people like you in the unemployment line every week. Obnoxious.. maybe, but I can assure you that I have more social skills in my big toe than you can every hope to have. Just because you don't like my delivery, doesn't mean it is isn't true.

Now, you have to the stage for the last word. I'm out.

 

[SLC]

If you went to Harvard, I would hope you would get more job offers (admission to grad school, etc), than someone who went to some unknown state school in Utah.

You're a BYU grad aren't you?

 

[Kissmyabjj]

I feel terrible for all of you who didn't match, especially those of you who came up empty after SOAP. I went through this nightmare last year. DON'T GIVE UP! I am happy to say that matched this year to a better program than I even applied to last year! Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

 

[docmama]

I may have missed this, but what did you do in the last year to strengthen your application? I hate that you are in this situation.

I felt my biggest strength was that I'd actually done an internship before and left on very good terms with my program's admin. I had some stellar LORs from anyone and everyone in charge there. I also attempted to take step 3 by failed by one point. ONE. POINT. I actually had one PD interview last week where she commended me for doing as well as I did after a two year absence. She said she didn't think she could have done that well (I doubt that, haha!). So I guess to some PDs, despite failing, the fact that I came so damn close was actually a strong point rather than a red flag. I've also spent some time in my community as an advocate/educator for evidence-based childbirth options, especially for women wanting to attempt VBAC. I'm an online advocate for childhood vaccines as well -- I answer questions, address concerns, provide reliable resources with objective evidence, etc. I haven't been able to do much more than this as most of my time has been at home with my three kids, but I think I'm going to look into some hospital volunteering options as one way to strengthen my app for off-cycle apps and/or next year's match.

 

[docmama]

oops, forgot to insert quote. . .

 

[docmama]

You're a BYU grad aren't you?

Maybe he's talking about Snow College or Dixie

 

[randomcollusion]

Well, until that person basically blew up I was gonna say that I at least would appreciate some criticism. That program coordinator post made me stop and think about what I was doing at this stage. My Dean, who pretty much told me that once you get a black mark on your record it's pretty much over, seems to be more spot on than all my mentors who were more optimistic.

I'm thinking of emailing the PD of my top pick just to see if the door is absolutely shut or if I can work my butt off and have a fighting chance - no guarantees, no hard feelings, just hope. But if there's no hope I really need to be told that, because I read online about that story of the scrub tech with an MD that will never be a doctor, and I don't want that. I'd rather do something I hate that's possible than pursue impossible dreams and end up in the gutter.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Well, until that person basically blew up I was gonna say that I at least would appreciate some criticism. That program coordinator post made me stop and think about what I was doing at this stage. My Dean, who pretty much told me that once you get a black mark on your record it's pretty much over, seems to be more spot on than all my mentors who were more optimistic.

I'm thinking of emailing the PD of my top pick just to see if the door is absolutely shut or if I can work my butt off and have a fighting chance - no guarantees, no hard feelings, just hope. But if there's no hope I really need to be told that, because I read online about that story of the scrub tech with an MD that will never be a doctor, and I don't want that. I'd rather do something I hate that's possible than pursue impossible dreams and end up in the gutter.

If you want to get feedback, I would email all of the places that you interviewed at. Talk to you home program PD as well. You won't get responses from all of them, but if you get 1-2 responses, that should help alot.

 

[hopeful3488]

i am still without a PGY2 year - can we apply to the unfilled programs via ERAS? or do we have to contact them via email? i can't select programs on ERAS, it's not letting me

 

[mcl]

i am still without a PGY2 year - can we apply to the unfilled programs via ERAS? or do we have to contact them via email? i can't select programs on ERAS, it's not letting me

Contact programs directly to see if the spots are still open and, if so, how they would like to receive your application information.

 

[TheWorldWarrior]

That's what Canada does. It's a good idea.

This is a fantastic idea. Edit: NVM i take it back. some of the best people/doctors I know are international medical grads.

 

[petyr_baelish]

This is a fantastic idea. Edit: NVM i take it back. some of the best people/doctors I know are international medical grads.

No doubt. But medical education is subsidized by the government, and it makes sense to have protectionist policies when your country's students rely on federal loans. It's common throughout the western world, and it means the bottleneck for medicine is at the beginning of people's lives/careers rather than after they have invested so much time/money in a degree that doesn't give us transferable skills without a residency. There are ways to recruit brilliant foreign talent and train them here. Fellowships are given to brilliant IMGs all the time. If Americans don't get the fellowship, oh well, they can still work as a board certified physician. That's so much better than putting Americans, who pass the USMLE and graduate from medical school, out of work. The USA is such a coveted place to live that if it were a true meritocracy, our physicians would be mostly Chinese and Indian. I don't think a true meritocracy is something to aspire to, and I presume you don't think so either. But what we have now isn't working when American grads, who pass everything and meet standards, can't get a job in medicine. Ever. The odds are stacked against you with each passing match. We have standards and people meet them but can't find work, but better IMGs can. That's absurd.

 

[docmama]

Anyone know where there might be a currently updated list of unfilled programs this morning?

 

[lakersno834]

Anyone know where there might be a currently updated list of unfilled programs this morning?

Check NRMP after you log in. There's a list that was updated this morning.

 

[deleted103644]

Check NRMP after you log in. There's a list that was updated this morning.

Can the list be posted now? It should be public, but seems to only be available to people who registered for the NRMP this year.

Anyone have the direct link to the list on the NRMP site?

 

[petyr_baelish]

The odds are already so overwhelmingly stacked in American grads favor, it already takes a truly exceptional effort from a foreign trained physician to get into a US residency.

And fellowship is not a solution - there are major licensing hurdles to practice in the US if your only training here is fellowship.

GME subsidization is intended to subsidize the needs of the healthcare system, not to protect US medical students from competition.

Fair enough, but I think if word gets out that there is a 5% chance that you won't match and will have $300k in non-dischargable debt with no transferable skills, some people may think twice about going to medical school at all. Less students eventually means that the needs of the healthcare system won't be met.

 

[W19]

Reading this thread is depressing... I wonder if medicine will be just like law school or pharmacy in the next couple of years. This is scary!

 

[pandahunter]

Reading this thread is depressing... I wonder if medicine will be just like law school or pharmacy in the next couple of years. This is scary!

nah. The vast majority of students in even the worst med schools in US will match. Some in competitive specialties and programs. Most of the ones who end up having to SOAP are those who weren't realistic about their competitiveness/interview skills.

 

[W19]

@pandahunter I tend to think after spending 4 years in med school that people have an idea about the match... It is hard for me to believe that most of these people in here (US students) who had to SOAP to find a spot had unrealistic expectation... Are you telling me people stick to their gun even if their score(s) are way below average of their specialty of choice? I mean someone with 200 in step 1 or less should understand he/she has a slim chance of becoming a surgeon.

 

[gyngyn]

@pandahunter I tend to think after spending 4 years in med school that people have an idea about the match... It is hard for me to believe that most of these people in here (US students) who had to SOAP to find a spot had unrealistic expectation... Are you telling me people stick to their gun even if their score(s) are way below average of their specialty of choice? I mean someone with 200 in step 1 or less should understand he/she has a slim chance of becoming a surgeon.

Even my own students don't take good advice sometimes.

 

[W19]

Even my own students don't take good advice sometimes.

We have to meet with an advisor at my school before applying and I was told they will tell you to have a plan B if you have unrealistic expectation... After reading that thread, I thought that I was going to need 240+ in step 1 to match in psych...


It's kind of weird because I know someone who got 191 in step 1 and he matched into a very good IM program in NY, but after reading that thread, I think maybe he probably has some kind of connection to pull that off...

 

[Chicago2012]

I was told straight out during interviews that I present myself very well and I still didn't match with 8 FM interviews (AMG), so there is more at play than "unrealistic expectations."

 

[Baller MD]

Just a note from a program coordinator - one who is really involved in the process including interviewing candidates and voting in rank meeting - to those of you who are left unmatched this very competitive year.

Don't lose hope. This isn't the end of the road and I have personally witnessed some REALLY unlikely candidates ranked to match (and by that I mean in the top however many spots available) because they made great connections with the program and worked their butts off in connection to SUPER competitive programs.

I just want you to know, from this side of it (though I guess I can really only speak for myself) we WANT you to succeed. We are on your side. If we interview you, we probably already like you and would be happy to have you here - as long as you weren't rude, inappropriate, or gave off a serial killer vibe. Match results are always a little bittersweet, because we all have our favorites and sometimes we weren't the best fit for them, but I am always so excited for those people because they matched where they thought it was a better fit. Sucks for me, but I am happy for them!!

For the candidates who are ranked but go unmatched - we really feel for you. Nine times out of ten, we ranked you, and would have loved to have you - we just matched higher on our list and sometimes higher than expected. This does not mean you were at the bottom of our list, or even, in some cases, a quarter of the way down. Do not let this define you, do not feel ashamed or embarrassed, and do not feel like you have failed. So many amazing candidates just slip through the fingers of the Match because it is SO competitive.

I know you feel like the world is ending, but it isn't. Take heart, take advice (even if you don't like it), and take time for your family and friends who have missed you while you were in medical school and will miss you when you land that residency.

And just some advice: Please DO NOT show up unannounced and without an invitation. It is not professional, it is awkward, and it is going to cost you far more than it benefits you. And please, do not call, get voicemail, call back, rinse and repeat a billion times. Most of us have caller ID so we see how many times you have called, and it is really inappropriate if we are interviewing someone or are hosting a meeting. Please just leave a voicemail.....

Best of luck to you in snagging an off cycle position or matching next cycle!

Great advice. Thanks.

 

[DrPerrla]

We have to meet with an advisor at my school before applying and I was told they will tell you to have a plan B if you have unrealistic expectation... After reading that thread, I thought that I was going to need 240+ in step 1 to match in psych...

It's kind of weird because I know someone who got 191 in step 1 and he matched into a very good IM program in NY, but after reading that thread, I think maybe he probably has some kind of connection to pull that off...

There many more factors that go into the match process than you think. Some schools don't advise their students as well as they should. Some schools have excellent advising, but even then it's up to the individual to follow that advice. Our school has amazing advising but even then some choose not to follow the advice they get and often times they're the ones SOAP'ing. If your heart is set on getting to the west coast (ie. Cali) it's definitely riskier despite having great scores. I could go on and on. And this person with a 191 on step 1 who got into a good IM program, do you know what their step 2 CK was? Maybe they blew it out of the park, had glowing letters, honored all clerkships, maybe they had stuff going on personally when they took step 1 etc... You have to take into consideration the whole picture.

 

[AStark]

That's what Canada does. It's a good idea.

Not exactly. There are parallel IMG spots in the "first iteration" of the CaRMS match. So this year all IMGs competed for 329 spots in the first iteration, though some programs will intentionally leave them unfilled for various reasons. This year there were only 215 spots left for the second iteration, which is open to all unmatched CMGs and IMGs... but 88 of those spots were francophone. It's really pretty tight, and arguably worse for IMGs, but I expect it's not as different as it seems from the US match practically as all IMGs in Canada must be citizens or permanent residents, apart from a few negligible exceptions for visa people.

Anyway, I don't really know what's worse. SOAP seems to be a bit more "flexible" inasmuch as you get specific offers as they come. The CaRMS second iteration is just like the first and follows the match algorithm. But we also don't have separate internships anymore, nor anything like "advanced" positions that don't automatically come with a PGY1 year.

 

[W19]

There many more factors that go into the match process than you think. Some schools don't advise their students as well as they should. Some schools have excellent advising, but even then it's up to the individual to follow that advice. Our school has amazing advising but even then some choose not to follow the advice they get and often times they're the ones SOAP'ing. If your heart is set on getting to the west coast (ie. Cali) it's definitely riskier despite having great scores. I could go on and on. And this person with a 191 on step 1 who got into a good IM program, do you know what their step 2 CK was? Maybe they blew it out of the park, had glowing letters, honored all clerkships, maybe they had stuff going on personally when they took step 1 etc... You have to take into consideration the whole picture.

I don't know what he got in step 2, but he has great personality IMO and he is really involved in a lot of school activities and had some research under his belt.. (no publications however)... He probably had good LOR as I said he was very involved in a lot of things...I know he got more than a dozen interviews...

Schools do a disservice to their students if they don't advise them about the match... Even before signing up to take step1 at my school, one has to see an advisor that will go over your grades and advise you accordingly...

I am really scared after reading this thread... I have not been involved in school activities at all (i.e community services etc..) due to family obligation.. I rank probably at the tail of the third quartile in my class... I will have some research this summer... I might have to get 230+ in step1 to have a chance to match into psych in the middle of nowhere... The whole matching stuff is really getting too competitive...

 

[pandahunter]

I don't know what he got in step 2, but he has great personality IMO and he is really involved in a lot of school activities and had some research under his belt.. (no publications however)... He probably had good LOR as I said he was very involved in a lot of things...I know he got more than a dozen interviews...

Schools do a disservice to their students if they don't advise them about the match... Even before signing up to take step1 at my school, one has to see an advisor that will go over your grades and advise you accordingly...

I am really scared after reading this thread... I have not been involved in school activities at all (i.e community services etc..) due to family obligation.. I rank probably at the tail of the third quartile in my class... I will have some research this summer... I might have to get 230+ in step1 to have a chance to match into psych in the middle of nowhere... The whole matching stuff is really getting too competitive...

you can still match. Try to get better grades. Try to do as well on Step 1 as you can. Everything is in your control right now. And even if you don't end up doing as well as you hope, you'll still have a really good chance at matching provided you are not too picky about which program and which specialty you want.

 

[W19]

you can still match. Try to get better grades. Try to do as well on Step 1 as you can. Everything is in your control right now. And even if you don't end up doing as well as you hope, you'll still have a really good chance at matching provided you are not too picky about which program and which specialty you want.

I am 100% into psychiatry and will not mind getting a spot in rural North Dakota, or even Alaska when it is time to apply in 2017. I just want to have a job after shelling out 260k-270k on a medical degree.

 

[candbgirl]

I felt my biggest strength was that I'd actually done an internship before and left on very good terms with my program's admin. I had some stellar LORs from anyone and everyone in charge .

Did you reapply to this program? You obviously left on great terms it seems this would be an automatic reinvite and rank. Have you talked to them to see if they could help you out? That would be my first call.

 

[Gastrapathy]

The fact that they won't take you back makes everyone else doubt the sincerity of their letters. Have you seen the letters with your own eyes (all of them)?

 

[moonwake]

Got word that I'm being offered a spot at a place that I passed over with my initial applications because I thought there was no way on earth they'd ever consider me. That may have been true for the main match but I am thrilled! Probably more excited than I would have been if I matched into my top programs on my match list!!!!

Such a relief!

Didn't even know you SOAP'd - really happy that you rocked it.

 

[docmama]

The fact that they won't take you back makes everyone else doubt the sincerity of their letters. Have you seen the letters with your own eyes (all of them)?

Yes I have. BTW this is a very rudely worded comment. You don't know what the facts are -- you don't know whether or not they'd take me back or if I even asked them to. This is exactly the kind of assumption that is a big problem with the whole residency matching SOAP mess -- some of the best qualified candidates may have a red flag or two, but God forbid your application isn't squeaky clean or it will be "obvious" that anything positive on your application must be "insincere."

 

[docmama]

Did you reapply to this program? You obviously left on great terms it seems this would be an automatic reinvite and rank. Have you talked to them to see if they could help you out? That would be my first call.

No. There are no job prospects for my husband in the area. They are doing all they can for me, considering they have their own residents to worry about.

 

[candbgirl]

I certainly didn't mean anything negative by my comment. I took you comments at face value and wondered if you had reapplied to your former place. I see now that you didn't because of location. Sorry you took it the wrong way but I never said your letters were insincere! I assumed they were exactly as you stated. I mean why would you say they were great if they weren't? It would serve no purpose. So I guess your issue is location and that's tough to correct!

Why did you delete your reply to me? Very strange but whatever.

 

[IlDestriero]

-- some of the best qualified candidates may have a red flag or two, but God forbid your application isn't squeaky clean ...

Competitive programs don't have to take any chances at all on red flag applicants. We, like most programs, get 20+ applicants per position. We only interview about 1/3 of them and we don't even rank everyone. The odds are actually worse than they think because we keep a few spots out of our match for superior independent applicants that they may not be aware of.
We have 4 basic goals in the fellowship program.
-Clinically mentor and teach the fellows about the sub specialty so that they can safely practice independently after a year and pass the subspecialty board exam.
-Offer career guidance and mentorship, including research opportunities, etc. to help them start their career on the right foot.
-Help them pass the general anesthesia oral board exam, which occurs during the fellowship, so that they can become board certified in anesthesia and sit for the peds specialty exam.
-Help them secure a job before they graduate.

If applicants have anything in their history that suggests that any of the above might be a problem, we would never offer them a position. Problematic residents are their PDs problem, we don't need to take a chance and make them our problem when there are 100 more applicants who are not even getting an interview.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

I am 100% into psychiatry and will not mind getting a spot in rural North Dakota, or even Alaska when it is time to apply in 2017. I just want to have a job after shelling out 260k-270k on a medical degree.

Could be a problem, since there aren't any psychiatry residencies in Alaska.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Yes I have. BTW this is a very rudely worded comment. You don't know what the facts are -- you don't know whether or not they'd take me back or if I even asked them to. This is exactly the kind of assumption that is a big problem with the whole residency matching SOAP mess -- some of the best qualified candidates may have a red flag or two, but God forbid your application isn't squeaky clean or it will be "obvious" that anything positive on your application must be "insincere."

Rudely worded...perhaps but I don't think so. You wanted insight into why no one will take you. When a program had to choose between two people, why should they take the risk of a prior failure? They know that you will probably pass the second time but you are less likely to succeed than a random applicant. Look at board pass rates, most people who fail will pass on their second try but it's still a lower number than new takers.

Now in SOAP, programs have even less time to do due diligence and all they want is to not get screwed. They are even less likely to take a gamble on a prior failure when they haven't interviewed and vetted the person.

Look, I get this isn't fair but your best chance by far is to go back. Beyond that, you cannot be geographically restricted by hubby's job. You need to apply to every community FP program outside CA and the northeast.

If your feelings remain hurt, you need to toughen up. You should be past the point of needing a feedback sandwich to feel loved.

 

[W19]

Is the 2015 'charting the outcomes' out already? I guess even FM step1 average score will be in the high 220s for this 2015 match...

 

[docmama]

I certainly didn't mean anything negative by my comment. I took you comments at face value and wondered if you had reapplied to your former place. I see now that you didn't because of location. Sorry you took it the wrong way but I never said your letters were insincere! I assumed they were exactly as you stated. I mean why would you say they were great if they weren't? It would serve no purpose. So I guess your issue is location and that's tough to correct!

Why did you delete your reply to me? Very strange but whatever.

Meant my reply to Gastrapathy. I edited it because I realized it was his comment that was rude, not yours. My apologies for the mix-up!

 

[DrPerrla]

No. There are no job prospects for my husband in the area. They are doing all they can for me, considering they have their own residents to worry about.

I know you're in a tough situation docmama and I can't begin to know what you have to go through but if you really want to fulfill your dream (and I hope that it still is a dream of yours) of becoming a board certified physician, would it be possible for your husband to put his job on the back burner while you take only a couple more years to finish your training? All the time, money and effort you're expending to find another residency position when you actually have one you could probably get seems like a good compromise to make. Of course I don't know your whole situation, but just a thought.

 

[docmama]

Rudely worded...perhaps but I don't think so. You wanted insight into why no one will take you. When a program had to choose between two people, why should they take the risk of a prior failure? They know that you will probably pass the second time but you are less likely to succeed than a random applicant. Look at board pass rates, most people who fail will pass on their second try but it's still a lower number than new takers.

Now in SOAP, programs have even less time to do due diligence and all they want is to not get screwed. They are even less likely to take a gamble on a prior failure when they haven't interviewed and vetted the person.

Look, I get this isn't fair but your best chance by far is to go back. Beyond that, you cannot be geographically restricted by hubby's job. You need to apply to every community FP program outside CA and the northeast.

If your feelings remain hurt, you need to toughen up. You should be past the point of needing a feedback sandwich to feel loved.

Again with the assumptions. First, I don't recall asking for insight into why a program might not want me. Second, I didn't fail, I left my program of my own accord because I felt very strongly that my family needed me more at that time, and they are far more important to me than my career. My program offered me a contract to return prior to *my* decision to leave, *I* turned *them* down. Prior failure? No. Doctor with her priorities straight who is exponentially less likely to burn out or go through a messy divorce or have problems with addictions than your average "random" applicant? Hell yes. I have only ever failed one exam, step 3, and it was only by ONE POINT after a two-year absence from medicine and very limited study time. I had one PD tell me that she was very impressed by that and that she didn't think she could do as well as I did if it had been her. I don't need a "feedback sandwich" to feel loved. I don't care if random strangers on forums love me. How could you? You don't even know me. I will admit, I already question the sincerity of my former programs' letters every day. I already struggle with feelings of being a completely useless, worthless failure, every single day. I already despair over the decisions I should or shouldn't have made and worry about the hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt looming over my head every day. I already worry it's too late and that I'll never get to practice medicine, which is all I ever wanted to do in the first place. Every. Single. Day. So everything you've said so far? Guess what? Not news. Not like every word you've written hasn't occurred to me already. Every single day. No, I don't need to be coddled. I'm a big girl. We're all adults here. But you don't have to make it worse by being a complete dingus to those who are struggling here. You *can* be supportive, positive, uplifting, and kind, I promise there's no law against it and no one will question your street cred. But good Lord, and forgive me for speaking to an attending this way, your attitude is EXACTLY what's wrong with medical education and post graduate training today. Telling people to "toughen up" is not the way to help them. And we wonder why over 30% of medical graduates/residents report crippling depression, and we lose over 400 physicians to suicide every year.

 

[docmama]

I know you're in a tough situation docmama and I can't begin to know what you have to go through but if you really want to fulfill your dream (and I hope that it still is a dream of yours) of becoming a board certified physician, would it be possible for your husband to put his job on the back burner while you take only a couple more years to finish your training? All the time, money and effort you're expending to find another residency position when you actually have one you could probably get seems like a good compromise to make. Of course I don't know your whole situation, but just a thought.

Yes, that's exactly what he's doing now. And if I am unable to procure a position off-cycle and have to go through the Match again next year, I will not set any kind of geographic limitations.

 

[gyngyn]

Is the 2015 'charting the outcomes' out already? I guess even FM step1 average score will be in the high 220s for this 2015 match...

They historically publish every 2 years or so.

 

[the argus]

Is the 2015 'charting the outcomes' out already? I guess even FM step1 average score will be in the high 220s for this 2015 match...

Not a chance. Last year (2014), the average step 1 score for matched applicants in FM was US MDs 218 and independents 212. There is no way you will see a 10 point bump over a single application cycle.

The average step scores for matched FM applicants in California, where most of these unmatched stories seem to come from, might be high 220s, but I would bet this hasn't changed much from last year. I would suspect that all steps scores, across specialties, are higher in California because it is a desirable place to live.

And another thing, the prevailing narrative on this forum that IMGs have to score much higher than US MDs to match is completely false. If you look at the data in practically every specialty, the average step scores for matched independent applicants are lower (or the same) than that of matched US MDs. Now within individual competitive programs, I would bet that IMGs have to have higher scores. But overall this is not the case.

 

[Gastrapathy]

You aren't getting it. Rather than process what I wrote, you attacked the messenger. I wasn't the PD who told you how impressed she was and then didn't rank you (hypothetical but we see it every year in this thread). I despise that sort of dishonesty because it leaves applicants to make bad decisions. What I'm trying to get you to see is how your app is perceived and why you can't pass up the chance to return to your first program if it still exists.

You see yourself as having one minor red flag and I see three major ones. I have no reason to believe this will impact your ability to be a great physician but it will impact your ability to match.

You quit before (that's as bad as failing). You are a risk to quit again no matter what you say.

You failed a step. You are at risk to fail your boards. Programs get in trouble for board failures.

You've been out of clinical medicine for 2 years. It's hard to pick right up. This is one you can find a way to ameliorate.

Although some PDs may disagree, I don't believe any of this has anything to do with the quality of physician you will be.

Good luck next time. I sincerely hope you find a way back in.

 

[Chicago2012]

You've been out of clinical medicine for 2 years. It's hard to pick right up. This is one you can find a way to ameliorate.

In regards to this, what are some good options for someone who cannot afford to not be working but still needs to keep up their skills?

 

[j4pac]

You aren't getting it. Rather than process what I wrote, you attacked the messenger. I wasn't the PD who told you how impressed she was and then didn't rank you (hypothetical but we see it every year in this thread). I despise that sort of dishonesty because it leaves applicants to make bad decisions. What I'm trying to get you to see is how your app is perceived and why you can't pass up the chance to return to your first program if it still exists.

You see yourself as having one minor red flag and I see three major ones. I have no reason to believe this will impact your ability to be a great physician but it will impact your ability to match.

You quit before (that's as bad as failing). You are a risk to quit again no matter what you say.

You failed a step. You are at risk to fail your boards. Programs get in trouble for board failures.

You've been out of clinical medicine for 2 years. It's hard to pick right up. This is one you can find a way to ameliorate.

Although some PDs may disagree, I don't believe any of this has anything to do with the quality of physician you will be.

Good luck next time. I sincerely hope you find a way back in.

I'm with you. I have really tried to give her the benefit of the doubt...but my interest in this situation is dwindling. You can't do residency at your own pace. The motivation for quitting seems to fluctuate...from hating her residency program, from entering a field she never wanted to enter, to her family needing her. My family needs me...to work. Unfortunately, your actions of the past effect the options for the future. That's called life. Life's not meant to be fair...but it is just.