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who cares?
Sobering realities and statistics of AA
- Thread starter Ernham
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Did I say it was better?
UCSB is not an easy school, thats all I was getting at. Why do you feel the need to comment on everything I say, especially when I wasn't talking to you? I'm sure alphabeta53 can fight his own battles.
I'm kinda interested in you MacGyver. Where did you do your undergrad? What were your stats? Where are you applying to med school? Where are you going to med school? You seem to be all over this board, but I'm just kinda interested in that stuff. I guess it would give me a better picture of where you're coming from. You seem to be SO obsessed with stats and rankings, I just want to see where you stand.
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Here's some info (from appendix 2, pg 4 of the lovely amicus brief)...
Based on 2001 med school admissions data:
Total applicants admitted =56.4%
percent of blacks admitted= 42.6% (of 2885 applicants)
percent of mexican americans admitted=50.9% (of 752 applicants)
percent of native americans admitted- 53.5% (of 263 applicants)
percent of mainland pr admitted- 52.3% (of 102 applicants)
percent of all URM applicants admitted- 45.6%
total URMs admitted without AA- 13.1 %
percent of whites admitted 51.7% (of 21400 applicants)
percent of asians admitted- 51.1% (of 6764 applicants)
percent of commonwealth prs admitted- 4.2% (of 144 applicants)
percent of other hispanics admitted- 41.0% (of 787 applicants)
percent of other/foreigners admitted- 36.3% (of 1360 applicants)
percent of all non-URM applicants admitted- 50.4%
total non-URMs admitted without AA- 54.7%
(other hispanics, though listed as ORMs, benefit from AA as well.)
So all in all, only 1331 seats were "given up" to minorities. The other 13,778 are given up to fate.
Is that really worthy of 14 trillion simultaneously repetitive threads?
If anyone should be complaining, it should be the commonwealth puerto ricans, who lose 70% of their seats to AA, compared to 8.3% of whites, and 9.8% of asians applicants.
Based on 2001 med school admissions data:
Total applicants admitted =56.4%
percent of blacks admitted= 42.6% (of 2885 applicants)
percent of mexican americans admitted=50.9% (of 752 applicants)
percent of native americans admitted- 53.5% (of 263 applicants)
percent of mainland pr admitted- 52.3% (of 102 applicants)
percent of all URM applicants admitted- 45.6%
total URMs admitted without AA- 13.1 %
percent of whites admitted 51.7% (of 21400 applicants)
percent of asians admitted- 51.1% (of 6764 applicants)
percent of commonwealth prs admitted- 4.2% (of 144 applicants)
percent of other hispanics admitted- 41.0% (of 787 applicants)
percent of other/foreigners admitted- 36.3% (of 1360 applicants)
percent of all non-URM applicants admitted- 50.4%
total non-URMs admitted without AA- 54.7%
(other hispanics, though listed as ORMs, benefit from AA as well.)
So all in all, only 1331 seats were "given up" to minorities. The other 13,778 are given up to fate.
Is that really worthy of 14 trillion simultaneously repetitive threads?
If anyone should be complaining, it should be the commonwealth puerto ricans, who lose 70% of their seats to AA, compared to 8.3% of whites, and 9.8% of asians applicants.
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I'm glad someone FINALLY sees what I've been trying to argue.
This isn't about AA, its about the redundancy of these threads. No one's saying you can't talk about it, but I just think things would run a lot smoother if you vent in one thread.
This isn't about AA, its about the redundancy of these threads. No one's saying you can't talk about it, but I just think things would run a lot smoother if you vent in one thread.
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How are those famous naked parties over at Yale? My friend over there kept telling me about it.
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Thank you for playing right into my hands. I'll play devils advocate.
If the number of URMs benefitting from AA is so extremely small as you claim, then WHY does that justify racial discrimination in the process?
What compelling interest is there for AA if so few URMs benefit from it?
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I've been to one, actually, and really, they are not as weird as you might think. You can pretty much predict with amazing accuracy what people will look like naked. Once there, it's almost rude to remain clothed. There were however, some people in attendance who might have done better to stay home 😀
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Yeah...I bet you're bound to see a few sites that you could definitely have gone without
. I heard that Larry Flint is willing to pay top dollar for footage of Bush's daughter at one of them...something that I could definitely live without seeing
.Hey I have a good idea...screw AA...lets turn this into the nakedness thread!!!
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That's about what I imagined the student body at yale to look like. At LA we didn't have any naked parties but we had some foam parties and lets just say people tend to stay in shape in areas where there is a beach and nice weather.
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Well, I personally don't consider it racial discrimination...
AA, slowly but surely, has helped to decrease the societal differences between the races; since its inception, as many people have noted, more URMs are educated, and have escaped from poverty. Its progress may seem slow, but it can't be ignored. AA itself has improved over the years as well (In the 70s, UNC-Chapel Hill tried to pay my father to go into another pharmacy school so that they wouldn't be forced to admit a black person into its program), and, if given the chance, will continue to improve, until eventually, it won't be needed. Without it, this improvement will probably be stunted, and it will take another two generations for us all to "get on our feet," while with AA, it will more than likely take significantly less time.
AA in medicine has been reaching its goals as of recently.... more and more minority applicants are applying, which means that interest in medicine as a career has increased among minorities. With that, more and more minorities have sought medical attention when needed than in the past.
The fact that so few URMs overall apply is an issue in and of itself; but I do feel that having some degree of diversity (if it is what the school desires), is beneficial to most students.
AAMC's justifications for diversity seem to suffice:
1) to address racial and ethnic disparities in health care, in hopes to improve quality of health care in underserved areas, and to encourage more minorities to seek medical attention if needed.
2) To promote research into the illnesses that are killing so many minorities; "diversity in medical schools leads to diversity in medical research."
3) To promote "culturally competent" doctors; to make students more aware of how cultural influences affect the practice of medicine.
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Darkchild, I might be mistaken, but aren't you going to cornell this fall with alphabeta53. You could seen then, if he is man enough to express his opinions to you in person, or if he is one of those people who smiles in your face and act friendly to you, all the while thinking you don't deserve what you've earned.
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Racial Discrimination:
"A process, in which people of a certain ethnic/racial group are treated differently from other ethnic/racial groups, due in whole or in part to their ethnic/racial status"
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In my class of 220 we had 6 black students. All were admitted, in part, because of added considerations from AA. All graduated. Like the rest of the class, their performances varied from just getting by to outstanding. Two of them were in the upper levels of class performance and matched into competitive residencies.
Their presence was critical to the make up of our class. In a sea of white collar, white faced suburban youth, they brought much needed experiences and perspectives. They were often the sole voice for the patient when dealing with anyone who happened NOT to be from white collar suburbia - which is very frequent in the world of medicine.
Another marginally performing white collar, white faced suburban youth adds nothing to the medical community when the composition is already so profoundly tipped in this direction.
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"Well, I personally don't consider it racial discrimination..."
You might want to invest in a dictionary.
"AA, slowly but surely, has helped to decrease the societal differences between the races;"
At first, it might have been useful. But it is quite different today, just from the fact that 90% of the blacks that benefit from AA shouldn't even need it. You are lying to yourself if you think that is a good situation. Strike that, you are just lying.
"since its inception, as many people have noted, more URMs are educated, and have escaped from poverty."
Maybe you should read my original post again, particularly the stats.
"Its progress may seem slow, but it can't be ignored. AA itself has improved over the years as well (In the 70s, UNC-Chapel Hill tried to pay my father to go into another pharmacy school so that they wouldn't be forced to admit a black person into its program),"
Oh. Take note, reader. This is one of the aforementioned blacks that doesn't even need AA but will be one of the sole beneficiaries. Keep that in mind when reading his/her claptrap.
"and, if given the chance, will continue to improve, until eventually, it won't be needed. Without it, this improvement will probably be stunted, and it will take another two generations for us all to "get on our feet," while with AA, it will more than likely take significantly less time."
If only about 10% of those in poverty are getting decent education, and of those only 3% are black, the rate of increasing poverty, which is occurring thanks to programs like AA(creates rich vs poor scenarios,) it would NEVER happen. Not to mention why should it when the majority of persons in poverty aren't even URMs. AA IS NOT HELPING POOR BLACKS. Get off it. It's helping crybaby, scheming, upper-middle class blacks, like you, that want handouts that they shouldn't need.
"The fact that so few URMs overall apply is an issue in and of itself; but I do feel that having some degree of diversity (if it is what the school desires), is beneficial to most students."
Many of them don't apply because they can't handle the pre-med courses.
"1) to address racial and ethnic disparities in health care, in hopes to improve quality of health care in undeserved areas, and to encourage more minorities to seek medical attention if needed."
Blatant lie. The majority of undeserved are not in the ghetto in some city. That's pure fiction. If you actually cared about serving underserved populations as a whole, you'd want to tear AA up into pieces as well. You don't care about people, though, you only care about your career and $$$$.
"2) To promote research into the illnesses that are killing so many minorities; "diversity in medical schools leads to diversity in medical research.""
Uh? There aren't any "black diseases."
"3) To promote "culturally competent" doctors; to make students more aware of how cultural influences affect the practice of medicine."
This statement is just a bunch of gibberish; qualify it.
You might want to invest in a dictionary.
"AA, slowly but surely, has helped to decrease the societal differences between the races;"
At first, it might have been useful. But it is quite different today, just from the fact that 90% of the blacks that benefit from AA shouldn't even need it. You are lying to yourself if you think that is a good situation. Strike that, you are just lying.
"since its inception, as many people have noted, more URMs are educated, and have escaped from poverty."
Maybe you should read my original post again, particularly the stats.
"Its progress may seem slow, but it can't be ignored. AA itself has improved over the years as well (In the 70s, UNC-Chapel Hill tried to pay my father to go into another pharmacy school so that they wouldn't be forced to admit a black person into its program),"
Oh. Take note, reader. This is one of the aforementioned blacks that doesn't even need AA but will be one of the sole beneficiaries. Keep that in mind when reading his/her claptrap.
"and, if given the chance, will continue to improve, until eventually, it won't be needed. Without it, this improvement will probably be stunted, and it will take another two generations for us all to "get on our feet," while with AA, it will more than likely take significantly less time."
If only about 10% of those in poverty are getting decent education, and of those only 3% are black, the rate of increasing poverty, which is occurring thanks to programs like AA(creates rich vs poor scenarios,) it would NEVER happen. Not to mention why should it when the majority of persons in poverty aren't even URMs. AA IS NOT HELPING POOR BLACKS. Get off it. It's helping crybaby, scheming, upper-middle class blacks, like you, that want handouts that they shouldn't need.
"The fact that so few URMs overall apply is an issue in and of itself; but I do feel that having some degree of diversity (if it is what the school desires), is beneficial to most students."
Many of them don't apply because they can't handle the pre-med courses.
"1) to address racial and ethnic disparities in health care, in hopes to improve quality of health care in undeserved areas, and to encourage more minorities to seek medical attention if needed."
Blatant lie. The majority of undeserved are not in the ghetto in some city. That's pure fiction. If you actually cared about serving underserved populations as a whole, you'd want to tear AA up into pieces as well. You don't care about people, though, you only care about your career and $$$$.
"2) To promote research into the illnesses that are killing so many minorities; "diversity in medical schools leads to diversity in medical research.""
Uh? There aren't any "black diseases."
"3) To promote "culturally competent" doctors; to make students more aware of how cultural influences affect the practice of medicine."
This statement is just a bunch of gibberish; qualify it.
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"In my class of 220 we had 6 black students. All were admitted, in part, because of added considerations from AA. All graduated."
How do you know that they all benefited from such?
"Like the rest of the class, their performances varied from just getting by to outstanding. Two of them were in the upper levels of class performance and matched into competitive residencies."
Oh, gee, you mean that they didn't go into primary care positions? Bucking the supposed trend, huh? It sounds as if the greater percent of blacks that enter primary care merely only do it because that's the only thing they match into. Your post suggests this, by the way. Further, if the data I have holds true, 2 of those 6 got their spots by merit, not AA handout, which would probably explain why only 2 of them did well...
"Their presence was critical to the make up of our class. In a sea of white collar, white faced suburban youth, they brought much needed experiences and perspectives. They were often the sole voice for the patient when dealing with anyone who happened NOT to be from white collar suburbia - which is very frequent in the world of medicine."
These data suggest that less than 3% of blacks that are admitted will be from a lower SES. The chance that you received SIX of them in your class? About the same chances of you taking an honest look at AA or you giving a damn about a colorless lower class, I'd imagine.
How do you know that they all benefited from such?
"Like the rest of the class, their performances varied from just getting by to outstanding. Two of them were in the upper levels of class performance and matched into competitive residencies."
Oh, gee, you mean that they didn't go into primary care positions? Bucking the supposed trend, huh? It sounds as if the greater percent of blacks that enter primary care merely only do it because that's the only thing they match into. Your post suggests this, by the way. Further, if the data I have holds true, 2 of those 6 got their spots by merit, not AA handout, which would probably explain why only 2 of them did well...
"Their presence was critical to the make up of our class. In a sea of white collar, white faced suburban youth, they brought much needed experiences and perspectives. They were often the sole voice for the patient when dealing with anyone who happened NOT to be from white collar suburbia - which is very frequent in the world of medicine."
These data suggest that less than 3% of blacks that are admitted will be from a lower SES. The chance that you received SIX of them in your class? About the same chances of you taking an honest look at AA or you giving a damn about a colorless lower class, I'd imagine.
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Like I said, I PERSONALLY don't consider it racial discrimination (I'm not Webster, and I'm not an idiot, I know what the dictionary definition is). That would require a complete dismissal of one's application, with no factors other than race considered PERIOD. Thats what AA sought to prevent; and that doesn't currently happens to anyone.
At what point did having money negate racism? If you believe that crap, you're lying to yourself.
Oh, so you assumed that since my father was pharmacist (when he was alive) that my family is rich or middle class? Thats a very strong (and incorrect) assumption. Couldn't be further from the truth, actually.
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"Like I said, I PERSONALLY don't consider it racial discrimination (I'm not Webster, and I'm not an idiot, I know what the dictionary definition is). That would require a complete dismissal of one's application, with no factors other than race considered PERIOD. That's what AA sought to prevent; and that doesn't currently happens to anyone."
Look, it doesn't even matter what you "consider it." It is what it is.
"At what point did having money negate racism? If you believe that crap, you're lying to yourself."
Oh, get off it. You haven't suffered any serious racism. BS.
"Oh, so you assumed that since my father was pharmacist (when he was alive) that my family is rich or middle class? That's a very strong (and incorrect) assumption. Couldn't be further from the truth, actually."
It's really a myriad of factors that led me to that "strong an d incorrect assumption," which is now leading me to question your honesty.
"How is that any different from ORMs not applying? "
It isn't.
"Perhaps URMs arent as interested in medicine; not everyone aspires to be a physician (I know it sounds, crazy, but its true)."
It's far more reaching than that. For one. from my experience, URMs just don't seem to have the fortitude for the science classes. I know; I've tutored a number of URMs. They don't understand that they must not only "understand the material," but they must do lots and lots of problems to cement that understanding, and that I can't give them some magic advice to make the class "easy." About half of those I tutor are URMs and the vast majority have that mind set.
"besides, AA isn't really actively recruiting doctors from the ghetto."
And why do you suppose that is?
"Just a side question: How many of you would honestly forego a 6 figure salary to work in Nowheresville, Iowa, at <$45,000/yr?"
What is your point?
"Or how many are planning on spending a year or more working (for free) for an organization like Doctors w/o borders?"
Not enough, unfortunately. "
Again, I haven't the slightest what you are getting at.
"There are many diseases and disorders that are either specific to or tend to kill off blacks moreso than any other race (Please tell me you've heard of sickle cell anemia)."
Sickle-cell anemia is not really a disease; it's a trait.
"I wouldn't go as far as lumping them all under the category of "black diseases," but they do afflict blacks disproportionally."
There really aren't any.
"An all-ORM faculty and student body stressing the urgency to address the health care needs of a diverse population is like a smoker telling kids not to smoke."
Haha. White's and asians can't care about a diverse population because they are white and asian.
Look, it doesn't even matter what you "consider it." It is what it is.
"At what point did having money negate racism? If you believe that crap, you're lying to yourself."
Oh, get off it. You haven't suffered any serious racism. BS.
"Oh, so you assumed that since my father was pharmacist (when he was alive) that my family is rich or middle class? That's a very strong (and incorrect) assumption. Couldn't be further from the truth, actually."
It's really a myriad of factors that led me to that "strong an d incorrect assumption," which is now leading me to question your honesty.
"How is that any different from ORMs not applying? "
It isn't.
"Perhaps URMs arent as interested in medicine; not everyone aspires to be a physician (I know it sounds, crazy, but its true)."
It's far more reaching than that. For one. from my experience, URMs just don't seem to have the fortitude for the science classes. I know; I've tutored a number of URMs. They don't understand that they must not only "understand the material," but they must do lots and lots of problems to cement that understanding, and that I can't give them some magic advice to make the class "easy." About half of those I tutor are URMs and the vast majority have that mind set.
"besides, AA isn't really actively recruiting doctors from the ghetto."
And why do you suppose that is?
"Just a side question: How many of you would honestly forego a 6 figure salary to work in Nowheresville, Iowa, at <$45,000/yr?"
What is your point?
"Or how many are planning on spending a year or more working (for free) for an organization like Doctors w/o borders?"
Not enough, unfortunately. "
Again, I haven't the slightest what you are getting at.
"There are many diseases and disorders that are either specific to or tend to kill off blacks moreso than any other race (Please tell me you've heard of sickle cell anemia)."
Sickle-cell anemia is not really a disease; it's a trait.
"I wouldn't go as far as lumping them all under the category of "black diseases," but they do afflict blacks disproportionally."
There really aren't any.
"An all-ORM faculty and student body stressing the urgency to address the health care needs of a diverse population is like a smoker telling kids not to smoke."
Haha. White's and asians can't care about a diverse population because they are white and asian.
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"I'm interested in this myriad of factors that led you to believe that I'm middle class or rich. Please, share."
First, just the fact that you have as much access as you do to the internet suggests you are at least middle class. The possibility of a black from a lower SES group making it into medical school is appreciably negligible. Finally, only someone that had reason to be so willfully deceptive and/or ignorant would post that "AA is helping blacks out of poverty" when the stats I had provided in the same thread show this assumption is patently false.
Edit: a side note here. There are studies that show that black americans are up to 600% more likely to consider themselves in a lower economic class, despite being middle class. It's almost as if they are willfully ignorant. Anyway, it doesn't surprise me that you are probably middle class but assume otherwise.
"Just a side question: How many of you would honestly forego a 6 figure salary to work in Nowheresville, Iowa, at <$45,000/yr?"
Well, I'd work wherever I felt I was most fulfilled. As long as I could make ends meet, I wouldn't really care. Money-grubber types are in for a shock when we switch to socialized medicine, when the factory workers coming in with carpal tunnel will be making similar salaries to your own. Heaven forbid...
First, just the fact that you have as much access as you do to the internet suggests you are at least middle class. The possibility of a black from a lower SES group making it into medical school is appreciably negligible. Finally, only someone that had reason to be so willfully deceptive and/or ignorant would post that "AA is helping blacks out of poverty" when the stats I had provided in the same thread show this assumption is patently false.
Edit: a side note here. There are studies that show that black americans are up to 600% more likely to consider themselves in a lower economic class, despite being middle class. It's almost as if they are willfully ignorant. Anyway, it doesn't surprise me that you are probably middle class but assume otherwise.
"Just a side question: How many of you would honestly forego a 6 figure salary to work in Nowheresville, Iowa, at <$45,000/yr?"
Well, I'd work wherever I felt I was most fulfilled. As long as I could make ends meet, I wouldn't really care. Money-grubber types are in for a shock when we switch to socialized medicine, when the factory workers coming in with carpal tunnel will be making similar salaries to your own. Heaven forbid...
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Well, my "having internet access" has been due mainly to readily accessible computer labs at my college and at cornell med. The computer that I do have now was part of a honors scholarship package that I was awarded. My being on SDN has nothing to do with money. My family definately falls into the low SES category (around $18,000 single parent income/yr; 3 kids)
Comparing the status of blacks prior to AA, and now, I would definately say (again and again) that affirmative action has helped blacks escape from poverty. Are you arguing with that?
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Your anecdotal evidence uncovers your true beliefs that whites are superior to blacks in the way of intelligence. Ever consider that maybe people who need tutoring to begin with have problems with the way they study? Of course not, in your typical simple minded fashion you set up a nice little stereotype about how dumb and lazy URMS are. While ignoring the myriad of other reasons that people might have poor study skills.
do me a favor, be honest when you write your PS
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Being anti-AA doesn't mean I don't think DarkChild deserves to be there. Again, think before you speak...
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womansurg,
you seem to have a lot of strong opinions regarding me. what do you bring to the table other than trivial comments? Are you going to medical school or will you be a re-applicant?
take a seat!
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Ernham, you either have no tact at all in how to handle arguments, you are waaaaayyyyyyy too touchy about this subject, or you are truly racist. I don't think you are racist (I hope I am not wrong), but you need to tone down a little bit. You are obscuring legitimate concerns about AA's flaws: like your original assertions about AA making a socioeconomic divide. What bothered me most was this:
I am asian, and I do feel that AA hurts a lot of asians and whites by admitting less qualified (Disclaimer: I did NOT say underqualified) URM's. Nonetheless, I do care very much about a diverse student pool, and I consider the benefits of having colleagues who can give me a different insights into people's lives outweighing the 'unfairness.' Of course, I too feel that it is the middle class URM's who take the biggest advantage of AA to further their stations in life, and the lower class URM's will rarely ever have a chance to waste their time debating on the matter of AA's effectiveness because they will be too busy struggling with thier lives. In summary, AA is a program that was originally started to help the poor URM, but ended up being 'exploited' by the middle-class URM, which in turn annoys the ORM's, especially the middle-class ORM, and now they are looking to cut down AA because they no longer believe that it works. I am a little naive, but this is what I think is happening. As much as I don't like what is going on, I try not to anger others when I am trying to convey my point of view, because in the end what you have is just another point of view, not an absolute, iron-clad fact that everybody should agree on. Sorry, just my two cents...
I am asian, and I do feel that AA hurts a lot of asians and whites by admitting less qualified (Disclaimer: I did NOT say underqualified) URM's. Nonetheless, I do care very much about a diverse student pool, and I consider the benefits of having colleagues who can give me a different insights into people's lives outweighing the 'unfairness.' Of course, I too feel that it is the middle class URM's who take the biggest advantage of AA to further their stations in life, and the lower class URM's will rarely ever have a chance to waste their time debating on the matter of AA's effectiveness because they will be too busy struggling with thier lives. In summary, AA is a program that was originally started to help the poor URM, but ended up being 'exploited' by the middle-class URM, which in turn annoys the ORM's, especially the middle-class ORM, and now they are looking to cut down AA because they no longer believe that it works. I am a little naive, but this is what I think is happening. As much as I don't like what is going on, I try not to anger others when I am trying to convey my point of view, because in the end what you have is just another point of view, not an absolute, iron-clad fact that everybody should agree on. Sorry, just my two cents...
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Oh come on... that's such a lame "come-back." SDN would be a lot more interesting if you all could learn to be a little more witty with your insults. 😉
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especially since - if i am not mistaken - womansurg recently finished up her surgery residency
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surgery residency...where does she get the time to surf these boards? Where is her residency? womansurg might be lying...
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"Because they were my friends."
Yes, I'm sure the admission office called them all up and informed them they wouldn't have got in without it. 🙄
"The rest of your post is too nonsensical to respond to."
Nice copout.
Yes, I'm sure the admission office called them all up and informed them they wouldn't have got in without it. 🙄
"The rest of your post is too nonsensical to respond to."
Nice copout.
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"Ernham, you either have no tact at all in how to handle arguments, you are waaaaayyyyyyy too touchy about this subject, or you are truly racist. I don't think you are racist (I hope I am not wrong), but you need to tone down a little bit. You are obscuring legitimate concerns about AA's flaws: like your original assertions about AA making a socioeconomic divide. What bothered me most was this:"
Look, I'm no one's mother. I'm not here to hide your "ucky" medicine in your juice so it tastes good. I really don't care if someone is offended or not. And what in the hell kind of statement is "you are too touchy or you are racist"??? Whatever. I care not.
Look, I'm no one's mother. I'm not here to hide your "ucky" medicine in your juice so it tastes good. I really don't care if someone is offended or not. And what in the hell kind of statement is "you are too touchy or you are racist"??? Whatever. I care not.
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Actually, this isn't true. It was started to help those who have been discriminated in the past and as a result, had been denied the same opportunities as their majority counterparts. Therefore, AA benefits any group that is underrepresented...it helped women before, helps minorities now. It was never contigent on the assertion that these minorities were poor. Just wanted to clarify that point.
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"Actually, this isn't true. It was started to help those who have been discriminated in the past and as a result, had been denied the same opportunities as their majority counterparts."
This is just about every group that ever came to america that wasn't from the UK(excluding Irish)... over 75% of the US.
"Therefore, AA benefits any group that is underrepresented...it helped women before, helps minorities now. It was never contigent on the assertion that these minorities were poor. Just wanted to clarify that point."
Actually it was. AA was created to insure that minority groups were hired, not excluded. It was never meant to rectify PAST discrimination. Who told you this crap?
This is just about every group that ever came to america that wasn't from the UK(excluding Irish)... over 75% of the US.
"Therefore, AA benefits any group that is underrepresented...it helped women before, helps minorities now. It was never contigent on the assertion that these minorities were poor. Just wanted to clarify that point."
Actually it was. AA was created to insure that minority groups were hired, not excluded. It was never meant to rectify PAST discrimination. Who told you this crap?
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There should be an entrance exam, you have to pass it to apply. so that we can get rid of time-wasting applicants who don't get the message.
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Sorry, I wasn't thinking straight....I just meant to say that the 'spirit' of the whole program is to help those that have been discriminated against, but the people who proposed the plan had the the poorer URM in the forefront of their minds. I am pretty sure if you asked people, would you like to start a class divide in order to prevent a racial divide, I am sure the originators of AA might be more hesitant about endorsing AA as it stands. Look, I am not condoning racism, and money does not sooth the wounds of racist acts, but some of us get complacent about AA's costs and benefits, and we should continually ask ourselves, are the costs worth the benefit before we dismiss or endorse AA.
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Ahh...MCAT is something like an entrance exam....And, you are preaching from a pretty high pedestal (make sure you don't fall)...Actually, the 'time-wasting' applicants are cool, they make it easier for the good people to stand out more. j/k, no applicant waste time if they truly believe that medicine is their passion, and they are looking to get a precious opportunity to truly help people. It's harder to separate two people based on just 0.01 difference in GPA or 1 point difference in MCAT, because there are so many 'circumstances' that determine a person. If you think that you deserve more for your GPA, then I think people from grade-inflated schools might agree with you more, and if you think MCAT is more important, you might get a resounding NO from all those other people who worked so hard to keep up a good GPA. So, life is complicated, and if you don't like how the ADCOM's are admitting people, tough...Go make your own medical school 🙂
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This makes no sense...
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Really? http://naples.cc.sunysb.edu/Pres/aaeeo.nsf/pages/aa
I beg to differ. I think it has definitely moved past that now, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think that was an influence. A simple search on Google (which is how I found that particular page) will reveal that. The purpose of it is to provide equal opportunity. If AA had been designed with that goal in mind, it stands to reason that equal opportunity must have been denied to minorities and women in the past somehow...
Now, notice I'm not arguing for or against AA in this post. I'm clarifying the facts about why it was formed. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm not an idiot.
Nimbus: I'm almost certain that the people who thought of AA didn't have just poorer URMs in mind. In the 60s, all URMs (and women) were largely discriminated against...regardless of SES....
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http://naples.cc.sunysb.edu/Pres/aaeeo.nsf/pages/aa
What the hell is this crap?? I know the history of my own country and the majority of the important legislation. AA was meant to be just as I said, not a retroactive reward system.
What the hell is this crap?? I know the history of my own country and the majority of the important legislation. AA was meant to be just as I said, not a retroactive reward system.
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SistaKaren's right on this one.
