Social Worker Stereotypes

[TMS@1987]

Hey guys,

I'm just curious as to whether or not anybody here has had to deal with social worker stereotypes from clients, friends, family, etc. and how you dealt with it?

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[AzithromycinFTW]

Hi acidic, because I'm not a social worker, I asked this question to my college psychology professor who is. According to him, the most dominant stereotype is the "oh no, the social worker's here so that means my kids are gone." Fortunately, as he explained, this is rarely the case as you guys generally prefer keeping the family together.

I hope I was able to help!

 

[subgel]

social worker = kidnapper

 

[TMS@1987]

social worker = kidnapper

Is that your personal opinion or a stereotype that you've heard?

 

[LovinPsych]

I don't believe that , in that case they'd be hording herds of children .

 

[thepsychgeek]

I don't believe that , in that case they'd be hording herds of children .

What, you don't have a stable of children in your backyard? I like to watch my child-herd run around in the paddock back there

 

[Jamie 99]

Don't listen to the negative posts. I have been a social worker for 15 years and am now applying to medical school. I have held jobs ranging from direct service (homeless, mentally ill, pregnant women) to director. I have started and directed multiple programs in urban areas and have been part of exciting coalition building work to reduce infant mortality and other health disparities. I have spoken at conferences, on radio and on TV and have written grants and administered programs. I have worked as a medical social worker and as a group worker for adults with epilepsy. The field is wide open. Once you get in, you will find your place. For me, it was the nonprofit sector in underserved areas. You get to do many things (wear many hats) in the nonprofit sector b/c there is a great need. If you want more info, please feel free to PM me. Most people value a good social worker, though, as in any field, there can be conflict. However, as a social worker you are trained to deal with conflict. If you do not like dealing with conflict, chances are that you may not enjoy social work. Another avenue may be public health. The two can intersect.

 

[fuge530]

When I told my dad I was going to be a Psychology major he said, "What do you want to be a social worker? You can get a lot with food stamps these days."

 

[thepsychgeek]

The stereotypes I've seen are:

• service workers who burn out fast
• overworked people who don't care
• People There To Steal Your Kids

and something along the lines of mini-psychologist- apparently we can read minds too!

 

[PsychPupil]

Early in my undergrad career, some of my fellow psych majors had negative opinions about people who chose to major in social work. When I asked why, they said because they have to work with "poor people" and deal with things like "welfare". They sounded like such snobs.
I've also heard that being a social worker is a tough job and it can be draining. I think it's one of those things where you either love it or you hate it.

 

[LovinPsych]

What, you don't have a stable of children in your backyard? I like to watch my child-herd run around in the paddock back there

shhh! you weren't supposed to tell!

 

[quitejaded]

On the contrary...

Perhaps because I am a foreigner, but social work is something my mother is having me consider as a positive, lucrative line of work that I would find enjoyably challenging.

 

[TMS@1987]

On the contrary...

Perhaps because I am a foreigner, but social work is something my mother is having me consider as a positive, lucrative line of work that I would find enjoyably challenging.

Where are you from?

 

[vctrhdgs]

I earned my social work ceu and eventually got into addictions counseling. I have faced much more difficult situations in social work than with addicts believe it or not.

Family dynamics are so varied.....I'd never really know what I was entering into in any given domestic situation. With addictions work it's not easier but the underlying reasons and many of the behaviors and scenarios are somewhat similar.

 

[Ecomaster]

I am fortunate enough to not have heard anything stereotypically "bad" about Social Workers. Then again, I guess when people don't understand what Social Work is in front of me, they tend to be very quiet. I'll take it as a "blessing." I have heard peers projecting how many Social Workers are are dirt-poor (at least initially) and wouldn't be in it for the money. How don't know how true that statement is either.

 

[PSYCHDR40]

I've been a clinical social worker for almost 10 years. Unfortunately, there are negative impressions about social workers because many people claim to be "social workers" who are not. They did not graduate from accredited Bachelors or Masters Social Work programs. Nor do they follow the National Association Social Worker's Code of Ethics.

Social Workers work in ALL settings - social services, corrections, medical, mental health, substance abuse. Many have their own private practices. If you look on most of the insurance panels you will see MANY clinical social workers who provide outpatient therapy services.

Besides direct practice, there are social workers who do indirect administrative work. Depending on the setting and level of experience, an experienced clinical social worker can make excellent money.

 

[BSWdavid]

Social work is a difficult profession to grasp, partly because our roots are in charity work, originally provided primarily by wealthy housewives with little "formal" education. Also, the term "social worker" is generically applied to many job descriptions (i.e. case manager, child welfare worker, etc.), when in actuality, many of these positions don't require a degree in social work, or even a degree at all. Moreover, because social work is a broad profession, and professional social workers provide a large range of services, most individuals know us by other titles including therapist, case manager, counselor, etc. The term "worker", in my opinion, doesn't sound very professional, which may also lead to social worker stereotyping.

Unfortunately, the media tends to portray social workers as welfare workers or case managers, while neglecting to highlight the additional roles we also fill. Thus, society has a limited view on what we do. Are social workers dirt poor? Define dirt poor. We certainly aren't paid as much as physicians, however, depending on the speciality we practice in, we might make a quite comfortable living. Because many social workers work for not-for-profit agencies, they do tend to make less money compared to their counterparts working in for-profit settings. Do we make as much money as we deserve (based on years of education, experience, and services provided)? Probably not. But the economic market decides how much someone earns, regardless of how valuable the services are, the amount of education the professional as obtained, or the years of experience the individual has. This is also true for psychologists, while on average earning more than social workers, still not earning nearly as much as psychiatrists.

 

[WannaBeDrMe]

Depending on the setting and level of experience, an experienced clinical social worker can make excellent money.

I agree with everything you wrote other than this statement. My wish for change would be that you'd clarify your definition of "excellent money" so we don't give the baby social workers the wrong idea.

I am also a clinical social worker in NC. I had a small niche area that was easily generalized and I quickly built up a very good word of mouth/professional referral reputation. When I worked in only private practice, my calendar consistently held 30-40 appointments Monday-Saturday with a very low cancel/reschedule rate.

Still, I would not say I made "excellent money" even when my practice's customary charges were $125/hour. Medicaid, Medicare, and 3rd party insurance reimbursement rates are nowhere near that amount and if you work on contract, you're only still receiving a % of that reimbursed rate.

Not to mention all of the fees associated with maintaining a license, traveling to job site, malpractice insurance, business insurance, marketing fees, client cell phone, supervision if you're in pre-licensure, NASW fees, etc, etc. I had a larger caseload than any of my cohort-mates and made more $ per year than them as well... but I still didn't break $50k working my RUMP off.

The highest paid clinical social workers I know work for the VA. They still don't make what I'd call "excellent money." Perhaps, in other geographic regions, this is a more lucrative career... but in the state of NC, at this time, it is absolutely barely going to get your bills paid each month and that is getting worse by the day. There are a TON of new cuts getting ready to hit by July 2011.

The gov has said she is going to cut anything not Federally mandated with regard to Medicaid coverage. I predict thousands (more) social workers will lose their jobs. We have agencies shutting down right and left b/c they couldn't afford to go CABHA and the market is flooded with LCSW's who end up being community support team leader paperwork monkeys b/c individual therapy is a luxury most people won't pay for in this economy.

I promise I'm not ranting against you... just against a frustrating system of care that lacks basic supports for its hardest working members and compassion for its client base. At my current agency, the largest in my LME, a social worker, hired at the same time as me with 18 years MORE fully licensed experience, only makes $3000 more a year. That's not uncommon.... my internship supervisor from many moons ago has had her LCSW for 26 years with an MSW from a top school and she makes only $4000 more a year than I do right now.

Geographic considerations are key when discussing salary potential for these helping professions. Non-profit positions in NC pay even less and I have four friends who lost their jobs to lay offs in the last 18 months who were non-profit administrators/trainers/exec dirs...

Ok, I'm going to stop ranting now. Ha. Any opportunity to vent, I jump on these days.

 

[PSYCHDR40]

I appreciate the rant. Mental Health in NC is in a horrible state. I completely understand. You quoted the key words however, "depending on setting and experience of social worker." I know many social workers who make on average $50,000+ and those who are in administration who make $70,000 - 100,000.

It can happen. Even in the black whole of mental health reform.

 

[slinger]

I suppose I should chime in. I am finishing my clinical intern as an MSW. I did my undergrad as a BSW as well (switching from psychology). I agree with alot of what has been said above. Geographics are a major thing to consider when selecting this career. The mid-west is your best option. You can make a nice career out of being a government social worker and part-time private practice (weekend clients). I'll never forget the first stereotypical joke I heard about my own profession.

What is the difference between a pit-bull and a social worker? At least a pit-bull gives you some of your kid back.

I know it's horrible, but these are the tags that are associated with our profession. I have never worked in a child protection agency (and never will). My program was purely clinical, undergrad and grad. The undergrad was basically prepatory for their clinical MSW. I knew nothing of child protection when I was done with my BSW, and I was very happy with that outcome. I got into this field to work with Soldiers and/or Veterans. So ultimately, I will work as a DA civilian or for the VA, whichever hires me.

 

[lizzo76]

I'm not a social worker, nor am I pursuing that as a profession, but I thought I would chime in. When I was in college, my professor who had a PhD in Clinical Psych was VERY down on the MSW and social workers in general. I mentioned this as an option and she was quite horrified. I think there definitely can be an elitist attitude which disparages social work as a career... I think it's a combination of the "easy" masters program, with a lack of research focus, and often not much clinical focus, and the populations which which social workers often work.

I think there's also a real lack of understanding of the variety of things social workers actually do.

 

[slinger]

Not to start a career war here, but I guess I can't blame psychologists for acting "elitist" or snobby as some would put it. Look at the Department of Veterans Affairs for instance, they have had numerous job postings where it was titled "Clinical Social Worker or Psychologist". Yet the requirements to be a Social Worker were to have an MSW and for a Psychologist is a PhD. Psychologists are beginning to realize that beyond testing there is nothing they can do that a well trained Social Worker can't.

My grad program was purely clinical and all we did was psychotherapy on all levels.

The term "variety" is used interchangeably sometimes in our profession, which leads to believe that we are a jack of all trades and a professional in none of them. The fact is, much as a psychologist can focus on a particular track, social workers can too. Mine happens to by clinical in nature, while another could be administration, or school social work/counseling. People need to be educated that's all.

 

[O Gurl]

Psychologists are beginning to realize that beyond testing there is nothing they can do that a well trained Social Worker can't.

I have to disagree with this point. Clinical psychologists are generally trained in the scientist-practitioner model with experience in academic and clinical settings. Therefore psychologists are hired to do more within the VA than provide individual and group therapy. You already mentioned testing, which is no small part of mental health care. Cognitive, personality, and diagnostic assessments are critical to identifying the problem and charting progress. To that point, measuring outcomes is another distinguishing skill. Evidence-based practices don't just spring up like eggplants. New iterations to these manualized approaches have to be developed and tested by someone. Clinics undergo program evaluation in order to maintain funding, which is also typically headed by psychologists. So VA psychologists are more likely to be selected to administrative and policy positions than their colleagues in social work. Finally, if you are dealing with an academic-affiliated VA or one with an active training program, psychologists are typically involved in supervision, teaching, or didactics for interns and psychiatry residents. I, too, am not interested in a career war as there is a place for a wide range of professionals in mental health but felt compelled to clarify this common misconception.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Psychologists are beginning to realize that beyond testing there is nothing they can do that a well trained Social Worker can't.

I formerly worked in the VA setting, and talk therapy was a minority of my week ([10-20%). The rest of my time was spent doing neuro assessments (40-50%), consultation (20%), and education/research (20%). While a social worker is trained to handle a variety of responsibilities at the VA, they would be ill equipped to do my job, as I would be to do their job.

 

[slinger]

I have to disagree with this point. Clinical psychologists are generally trained in the scientist-practitioner model with experience in academic and clinical settings. Therefore psychologists are hired to do more within the VA than provide individual and group therapy. You already mentioned testing, which is no small part of mental health care. Cognitive, personality, and diagnostic assessments are critical to identifying the problem and charting progress. To that point, measuring outcomes is another distinguishing skill. Evidence-based practices don't just spring up like eggplants. New iterations to these manualized approaches have to be developed and tested by someone. Clinics undergo program evaluation in order to maintain funding, which is also typically headed by psychologists. So VA psychologists are more likely to be selected to administrative and policy positions than their colleagues in social work. Finally, if you are dealing with an academic-affiliated VA or one with an active training program, psychologists are typically involved in supervision, teaching, or didactics for interns and psychiatry residents. I, too, am not interested in a career war as there is a place for a wide range of professionals in mental health but felt compelled to clarify this common misconception.

I agree with your points and ideas, unfortunately the common misconception is that Clinical Social Workers do not have the main part of their experience with a clinical setting and academic setting (teaching). Social Workers are generally viewed as case workers with a "flavor" of therapy abilities.

I agree with your notion that assessments are absolutely vital to the diagnostic and treatment process. Which is why I think Psychologists are absolutely vital.

Regarding your comment on evidence-based practices, I think you will find that most of these approaches and ideas were completely developed by Social Workers, Psychologists, Counselor's in collaboration. Psychologists do not "head" the creativity in this process.

Good points though.

 

[slinger]

I formerly worked in the VA setting, and talk therapy was a minority of my week ([10-20%). The rest of my time was spent doing neuro assessments (40-50%), consultation (20%), and education/research (20%). While a social worker is trained to handle a variety of responsibilities at the VA, they would be ill equipped to do my job, as I would be to do their job.

While I admit that my language was strong, "nothing they can do", I will stick to my guns on this one. I completely agree with you, in that assessments are an absolute vital tool that Social Workers cannot accomplish in any way in a professional light. As you say, this took 40-50% of your workload time, therefore a Social Worker could not do your particular job, or any job for that matter where formal assessments were required. In my VA experiences, especially in a Mental Health Clinic, I work with Psychologists whose time is devoted to talk therapy. Which, sometimes I am chagrined to find is de-emphasized, as you stated 10-20% of your time consisted of this. Of course this just could of been your particular position description.

In my opinion most good Psychiatrists that I work with will say that proper mental health treatment is not in medication, but a combination of "less meds is better", and individual/group psychotherapy. The name "talk therapy" has always escaped me, because the therapy occurs in one's mind through the catalyst of speech and insight.

Again, not starting a career war. I completely understand that our trainings are very different in nature. It is just interesting to see that a lot of the time, our jobs are the same.

 

[O Gurl]

I agree with your points and ideas, unfortunately the common misconception is that Clinical Social Workers do not have the main part of their experience with a clinical setting and academic setting (teaching). Social Workers are generally viewed as case workers with a "flavor" of therapy abilities.

I am not well-versed on the training model for clinical SWs, so I will certainly defer to you and others in the know regarding the amount of academic training received. I am simply noting that in my (albeit limited) observations, most MH research is done by psychologists.

Regarding your comment on evidence-based practices, I think you will find that most of these approaches and ideas were completely developed by Social Workers, Psychologists, Counselor's in collaboration. Psychologists do not "head" the creativity in this process.

This claim is a bit surprising.

I think we had a mis-communication. I was talking about the fact that the active researchers EBT trials tend to be psychologists (esp. in the VA where I have done most of my training to this point). I was not talking about the original development of the therapies. But if that's where you want to look, a review of names typically credited with the development of major EBTs are all PhD psychologists: Aaron and Judith Beck (CBT); Edna Poa (PE); Albert Ellis (REBT); Marsha Linehan (DBT); Lisa Najavits (Seeking Safety); and Patricia Resick (CPT). I do think Resick's co-developer for CPT in rape victims was an LCSW (Monica Schnicke) and were PhDs for the VA version (Candice Monson and Kathleen Chard). Who's to say who gets top billing in terms of being the creative mind behind it, but from a review of the pubs and the continuation from rape to military trauma, it would appear to be Resick.

This was simply a quick review of EBTs with which I am familiar. This is not an exhaustive list, so maybe you are aware of others from SWs. Again, I am not looking for a pissing match of any kind, but I would like to be clear on the facts.

 

[movershaker]

I think it's impossible to classify and compare All Psychologists vs All Social Workers. Jobs, graduate programs, and individuals vary too greatly in nature, quality, and ability. This seems like a too obvious fact, but still important to remember. Especially when the goal of both careers is so similar and one philosophy wouldn't serve clients as well as people converging from different schools of thoughts.

Back to the topic of SW stereotypes, sometimes I just wish the word "welfare" wasn't in "social welfare". It really means "well being" but it seems to most people it means "hand outs".

 

[AcronymAllergy]

...a review of names typically credited with the development of major EBTs are all PhD psychologists: Aaron and Judith Beck (CBT)...

Just to avoid erroneously tooting our own horn, Aaron Beck is actually a psychiatrist (he trained at Yale I believe). His daughter is indeed a clinical psychologist, though. But back to the point at hand--I definitely agree that social workers, psychologists, and psychiatrists each have unique skills and training that (in the proper environment) can work very well together to deliver excellent levels of patient care.

As for negative stereotypes about social workers, I've heard some refer to them as "bleeding-heart head-nodders." Definitely doesn't do them, their field, or the services they provide even a modicum of justice, obviously.

 

[cheweyone]

Yes, it is out there. People think because you are a social worker you have no mental health training or cannot possibly have a brain

 

[O Gurl]

Just to avoid erroneously tooting our own horn, Aaron Beck is actually a psychiatrist (he trained at Yale I believe). His daughter is indeed a clinical psychologist, though.

Well, I dunno if tooting my horn had much to do with it as I can assure you I had nothing to do with developing CBT , but yes, he is. Apologies for the misstatement.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Well, I dunno if tooting my horn had much to do with it as I can assure you I had nothing to do with developing CBT , but yes, he is. Apologies for the misstatement.

No worries, I simply meant that our field (as a whole) couldn't really claim credit for Dr. A. Beck. Definitely didn't intend to direct the statement at you personally

 

[slinger]

I am not well-versed on the training model for clinical SWs, so I will certainly defer to you and others in the know regarding the amount of academic training received. I am simply noting that in my (albeit limited) observations, most MH research is done by psychologists.



This claim is a bit surprising.

I think we had a mis-communication. I was talking about the fact that the active researchers EBT trials tend to be psychologists (esp. in the VA where I have done most of my training to this point). I was not talking about the original development of the therapies. But if that's where you want to look, a review of names typically credited with the development of major EBTs are all PhD psychologists: Aaron and Judith Beck (CBT); Edna Poa (PE); Albert Ellis (REBT); Marsha Linehan (DBT); Lisa Najavits (Seeking Safety); and Patricia Resick (CPT). I do think Resick's co-developer for CPT in rape victims was an LCSW (Monica Schnicke) and were PhDs for the VA version (Candice Monson and Kathleen Chard). Who's to say who gets top billing in terms of being the creative mind behind it, but from a review of the pubs and the continuation from rape to military trauma, it would appear to be Resick.

This was simply a quick review of EBTs with which I am familiar. This is not an exhaustive list, so maybe you are aware of others from SWs. Again, I am not looking for a pissing match of any kind, but I would like to be clear on the facts.

Indeed it can be a bit surprising. Michael White was a clinical worker, and is considered the founder of Narrative Therapy. Most people who "develop" therapies are in the field of Psychiatry and Psychology, and utilize field testers such as practicing clinical social workers and psychologists to field the practice, get an aggregate of data, report the data, and collaborate on the findings. In the end, maybe the Psychologist writes the book, but most of the time it is a collaborative effort.

You are correct, in that most the therapies have been billed to famous Psychiatrists and Psychologists, modern therapies are definitely Psychologists. I think the confusion lies in that if someone goes to a Psychology program, they are innately better than a social worker at practicing the different forms of therapy.. This is what I see a lot of the time in the hospital work I do.

Personally, I think we all have ALOT to offer each others professions.

 

[PSYCHDR40]

I accept the stereotypes Social Workers deal with and I will quickly tell someone I am a "Social Worker" with no problem. I've talked to people before who wanted to speak with a "counselor" and didn't want to deal with me because of their misconceptions of my profession. I allow people to be ignorant. I just keep it to myself that I'm a licensed therapist and let them run to someone who calls themselves a "counselor" who has a BA in history. Whatever...

In the end, whether we are psychologist, counselors, psychiatrist, social workers - we all are sitting at the same table in the treatment team meetings wondering what in the HELL we are going to do for our clients.

 

[slinger]

I accept the stereotypes Social Workers deal with and I will quickly tell someone I am a "Social Worker" with no problem. I've talked to people before who wanted to speak with a "counselor" and didn't want to deal with me because of their misconceptions of my profession. I allow people to be ignorant. I just keep it to myself that I'm a licensed therapist and let them run to someone who calls themselves a "counselor" who has a BA in history. Whatever...

In the end, whether we are psychologist, counselors, psychiatrist, social workers - we all are sitting at the same table in the treatment team meetings wondering what in the HELL we are going to do for our clients.

Well said.