Some ideas

[Podfather]

Seems fairly reasonable. With the details worked out I could see such a move.

What would you think about converting podiatric schools into medical schools and making podiatry it's own subspecialty of medicine, with its own residency program?

I think that has more risk of eliminating our profession. For that reason the DOs (although initially accepting a MD in California) eventually thought about it and said no.

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[MaxillofacialMN]

I am really appalled at this forum.

The title of your degree is meaningless. The difference between a PMD DPM DPS or anything is meaningless and changing the degree name will have no effect on public opinion or how you're being trained - if anything it will have negative impact because you'll have LESS recognition.

Second dual track? Seriously? Extra year? The point of podiatry schools is that you should literally be getting the same education as you would at a MD/DO/DDS school. What would an extra year accomplish? If podiatry schools are doing their job correctly, the education at the school is the same and an extra year is unnecessary.

If you feel that you need an MD, but want to do a pods job, go to an allopathic school, get an ortho residency and do the same thing that a pod does. Hell, you'll probably even get paid more through the biased and unfair healthcare system.

If the goal is "parity" then work for it within your profession. Have some pride in podiatry for godsakes. If you think you can't achieve parity with the DPM, then you have given up and you have no faith or confidence in the profession and you shouldn't choose it.

 

[Podfather]

I am really appalled at this forum.

The title of your degree is meaningless. The difference between a PMD DPM DPS or anything is meaningless and changing the degree name will have no effect on public opinion or how you're being trained - if anything it will have negative impact because you'll have LESS recognition.

Second dual track? Seriously? Extra year? The point of podiatry schools is that you should literally be getting the same education as you would at a MD/DO/DDS school. What would an extra year accomplish? If podiatry schools are doing their job correctly, the education at the school is the same and an extra year is unnecessary.

If you feel that you need an MD, but want to do a pods job, go to an allopathic school, get an ortho residency and do the same thing that a pod does. Hell, you'll probably even get paid more through the biased and unfair healthcare system.

If the goal is "parity" then work for it within your profession. Have some pride in podiatry for godsakes. If you think you can't achieve parity with the DPM, then you have given up and you have no faith or confidence in the profession and you shouldn't choose it.

As someone who has worked within the political arena of medicine and know how the system works, your assessment shows that you have an outsiders view. What makes you think we do no already think we are equals in the treatment of the lower extremity? We have been treated like a racial or religious minority for years. And like others who are discriminated against we have to use the system to prove slowly to others what we already know. If we have go to the dual track route perhaps it's not by choice but the mere fact that history shows that trying to achieve "parity" with our current degree will be fought for reasons less about education and more about turf. Just ask the DOs who today still get slapped around. And how long did it take for the MDs to say yes to DOs andas of today you are a physician but yesterday just a DC who can prescribe? With your name you should understand how many a maxillofacial surgeon was discriminated against in the 70s and 80s and forced to do surgery in offices. They achieve their MD in residency and do they really need it? Other than a few that jump ship to plastics how many practice general medicine?

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

As someone who has worked within the political arena of medicine and know how the system works, your assessment shows that you have an outsiders view. What makes you think we do no already think we are equals in the treatment of the lower extremity? We have been treated like a racial or religious minority for years. And like others who are discriminated against we have to use the system to prove slowly to others what we already know. If we have go to the dual track route perhaps it's not by choice but the mere fact that history shows that trying to achieve "parity" with our current degree will be fought for reasons less about education and more about turf. Just ask the DOs who today still get slapped around. And how long did it take for the MDs to say yes to DOs andas of today you are a physician but yesterday just a DC who can prescribe? With your name you should understand how many a maxillofacial surgeon was discriminated against in the 70s and 80s and forced to do surgery in offices. They achieve their MD in residency and do they really need it? Other than a few that jump ship to plastics how many practice general medicine?

Not only do I think you are equals, but I think you are superior, so I apologize if my post made it sound like I thought pods were inferior.

Not all maxillofacial surgeons have MDs, it's a choice based on the residency you take.

Your assessment shows you have given up on the podiatry and it's ability to operate itself or stand alone. Which is fine if that's what you believe. Personally, I do not give up on something I believe in.

Also, I think it's important to note that podiatrists as DPMs are a lot further along than many of your examples (who maintained their degree names, mind you). Pods can do surgery, privileges at 99% of hospitals, can prescribe, get consults, etc etc. I do agree that reimbursements are messed up, and public/medical opinions should be changed. But a degree change does not accomplish this. A degree change is semantics. The way to change these things is to prove you are superior by doing quality work and to make sure the majority of pods are also doing quality work. Because you are older than me, that means you entered podiatry when there was even less parity than there is now. You still CHOSE podiatry as a profession though. Why? If you like the profession, what are you concerned about? Sure things could be better, but you chose podiatry so stick with your decision and be happy with your DPM. If you went into podiatry to change the field (which is a little presumptuous), then change it by becoming an excellent doc and training younger docs to do the same - not by telling the profession it needs to change three letters around.

 

[347932]

Your assessment shows you have given up on the podiatry and it's ability to operate itself or stand alone. Which is fine if that's what you believe. Personally, I do not give up on something I believe in.

Trust me, you are telling this to the WRONG person.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Trust me, you are telling this to the WRONG person.

I hoped that was the case.

 

[Podfather]

Not only do I think you are equals, but I think you are superior, so I apologize if my post made it sound like I thought pods were inferior.

Not all maxillofacial surgeons have MDs, it's a choice based on the residency you take.

Your assessment shows you have given up on the podiatry and it's ability to operate itself or stand alone. Which is fine if that's what you believe. Personally, I do not give up on something I believe in.

Also, I think it's important to note that podiatrists as DPMs are a lot further along than many of your examples (who maintained their degree names, mind you). Pods can do surgery, privileges at 99% of hospitals, can prescribe, get consults, etc etc. I do agree that reimbursements are messed up, and public/medical opinions should be changed. But a degree change does not accomplish this. A degree change is semantics. The way to change these things is to prove you are superior by doing quality work and to make sure the majority of pods are also doing quality work. Because you are older than me, that means you entered podiatry when there was even less parity than there is now. You still CHOSE podiatry as a profession though. Why? If you like the profession, what are you concerned about? Sure things could be better, but you chose podiatry so stick with your decision and be happy with your DPM. If you went into podiatry to change the field (which is a little presumptuous), then change it by becoming an excellent doc and training younger docs to do the same - not by telling the profession it needs to change three letters around.

I have to chuckle and do not think we are actually disagreeing. Believe me when I say I am aware and proud of where we have come. Not tooting my horn but I was actively involved in pushing all of the changes through. We will continue to evolve and my discussions are to give some ideas of some (not the only) ways to go. The dual track makes sense in that it would be a legitimate, already in place way to be granted physician status for some of the profession. The maxillofacial people did it during residency and I have been an advocate for that as well. Making the DPM degree a third physician status degree also makes sense and is an option. Just politically it will be harder and take longer. Just ask any DO.

As far as the PMD issue. I and many have excelled as DPMs so for the individual perhaps it doesn't matter. PMD would simply be a way to re-brand the profession and help those who as individuals have difficulty educating. The profession is small and lacks the man power and dollars to really market effectively. It's purely grass roots and when there are communities that do not have a DPM or have a few who define themselves are more chiropody the brand is set. DSC was dropped to change our image before and this would another shift for the same reason. I think the dual track or residency MD makes sense. PMD I feel it can't hurt but from the lack of response here and other sites seems not to be a high priority.

We need to always think of the future and believe me when I say we will be much different 25 years from now just as we are from 25 years ago.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I have to chuckle and do not think we are actually disagreeing. Believe me when I say I am aware and proud of where we have come. Not tooting my horn but I was actively involved in pushing all of the changes through. We will continue to evolve and my discussions are to give some ideas of some (not the only) ways to go. The dual track makes sense in that it would be a legitimate, already in place way to be granted physician status for some of the profession. The maxillofacial people did it during residency and I have been an advocate for that as well. Making the DPM degree a third physician status degree also makes sense and is an option. Just politically it will be harder and take longer. Just ask any DO.

As far as the PMD issue. I and many have excelled as DPMs so for the individual perhaps it doesn't matter. PMD would simply be a way to re-brand the profession and help those who as individuals have difficulty educating. The profession is small and lacks the man power and dollars to really market effectively. It's purely grass roots and when there are communities that do not have a DPM or have a few who define themselves are more chiropody the brand is set. DSC was dropped to change our image before and this would another shift for the same reason. I think the dual track or residency MD makes sense. PMD I feel it can't hurt but from the lack of response here and other sites seems not to be a high priority.

We need to always think of the future and believe me when I say we will be much different 25 years from now just as we are from 25 years ago.

I guess I just don't know what the DPM/MD would accomplish. With the OMS example, the surgeons can operate on facial tissue, jaws, and palate surgery which is generally "more" than what the regular old DDS does. I almost think the DPM/MD would make things worse because you aren't really gaining any scope (because hopefully you'd still focus on the lower extremity), and it would mean the regular DPMs are "missing" some type of training and make them inferior. Just my thoughts though.

Hopefully I can say the same as you someday! I hope to be lucky enough to be a part of the profession soon!

 

[hematosis]

One of our deans said it best "Its politics . Sometimes you just have to play the game."

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

One of our deans said it best "Its politics . Sometimes you just have to play the game."

Alas, you might be right, but I just want to make sure people think through all the unintended consequences first.

Speaking of politics and podiatry. Lee Rogers for Congress anyone? But I digress...

 

[347932]

Lee Rogers for Congress anyone?

Not even a little...

 

[Scrantonicity]

I guess I just don't know what the DPM/MD would accomplish. With the OMS example, the surgeons can operate on facial tissue, jaws, and palate surgery which is generally "more" than what the regular old DDS does. I almost think the DPM/MD would make things worse because you aren't really gaining any scope (because hopefully you'd still focus on the lower extremity), and it would mean the regular DPMs are "missing" some type of training and make them inferior. Just my thoughts though.

Hopefully I can say the same as you someday! I hope to be lucky enough to be a part of the profession soon!

Well I can think of one thing that might be different--we could actually take decent bone grafts (i.e. iliac crest, proximal tibia) instead of having to call in an MD to be in the room...

It cracks me up that oral surgeons can take bone graft from wherever they want in the body--and we're limited to calcaneus, distal tibia, or allograft...

 

[dtrack22]

You have to remember that you are speaking to someone who believes that Pods can receive all of the necessary privileges to practice effectively at "99% of hospitals"...

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

You have to remember that you are speaking to someone who believes that Pods can receive all of the necessary privileges to practice effectively at "99% of hospitals"...

Wait, is that not true? Is there a large amount of hospitals you can't get privileges at? I honestly assumed that most hospitals gave privileges to DPMs. In my town, the major hospital has the chief of surgery that is a DPM...