Someone tell me about radiology...

[IJL]

Seems pretty intriguing to me, I just don't know much about the field.

Current MS3
Step 1 - 255
Research in a non-related field
Average pre-clinical grades

Should I go ahead an start trying to do rads research? Is this even possible during 3rd year?

I know I don't like being in clinic very much
Like technology/equipment/etc..
Kind of like procedures
Don't really like patients
I like money, and I don't want to work 80 hours/week for the rest of my life


Thanks!!

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[drizzt3117]

Sounds like you might like some areas of rads; I'd try to get some research in. Internship has made me appreciate rads much more.

Seems pretty intriguing to me, I just don't know much about the field.

Current MS3
Step 1 - 255
Research in a non-related field
Average pre-clinical grades

Should I go ahead an start trying to do rads research? Is this even possible during 3rd year?

I know I don't like being in clinic very much
Like technology/equipment/etc..
Kind of like procedures
Don't really like patients
I like money, and I don't want to work 80 hours/week for the rest of my life


Thanks!!

 

[IJL]

Sounds like you might like some areas of rads; I'd try to get some research in. Internship has made me appreciate rads much more.

Is this possible during 3rd year?? What would be the best way to get started?

 

[drizzt3117]

Is this possible during 3rd year?? What would be the best way to get started?

Sure it is. I'd talk to some radiology attendings at your home institution.

 

[ArcGurren]

Seems pretty intriguing to me, I just don't know much about the field.

Current MS3
Step 1 - 255
Research in a non-related field
Average pre-clinical grades

Should I go ahead an start trying to do rads research? Is this even possible during 3rd year?

I know I don't like being in clinic very much
Like technology/equipment/etc..
Kind of like procedures
Don't really like patients
I like money, and I don't want to work 80 hours/week for the rest of my life


Thanks!!

lolz

 

[IJL]

lolz

Just keepin' it real, brah!

 

[ArcGurren]

Just keepin' it real, brah!

Haha it's totally alright. I just thought it was a funny way to list it.

I definitely have had frustrating patients before but on the whole I don't mind it

 

[duckie99]

Just keepin' it real, brah!

don't say that on interviews

 

[IJL]

don't say that on interviews

Duly noted...

 

[link2swim06]

Seems pretty intriguing to me, I just don't know much about the field.

Current MS3
Step 1 - 255
Research in a non-related field
Average pre-clinical grades

Should I go ahead an start trying to do rads research? Is this even possible during 3rd year?

I know I don't like being in clinic very much
Like technology/equipment/etc..
Kind of like procedures
Don't really like patients
I like money, and I don't want to work 80 hours/week for the rest of my life


Thanks!!

I'd suggest you spend some time reading threads on auntminnie.com's forums.

Starting salary for radiology is only slightly higher or equal to EM currently (except its a much longer residency and you are expected to get a fellowship on top of that). The big money in radiology is those who own x-ray/ct scan, etc or are partners in the practice. Not mention there are more graduating residents than job openings (which is forcing people to do multiple fellowships to become competitive).

Also I am pretty sure radiologists are in the top 1/3 for numbers of hours worked per week of any specialty. Long hours is the norm for alot of radiologist.

The rest of your reasons seem valid, but obviously do your due diligence

 

[drizzt3117]

Lol. If you're talking about Chosen1's threads, maybe.

I'd suggest you spend some time reading threads on auntminnie.com's forums.

Starting salary for radiology is only slightly higher or equal to EM currently (except its a much longer residency and you are expected to get a fellowship on top of that). The big money in radiology is those who own x-ray/ct scan, etc or are partners in the practice. Not mention there are more graduating residents than job openings (which is forcing people to do multiple fellowships to become competitive).

Also I am pretty sure radiologists are in the top 1/3 for numbers of hours worked per week of any specialty. Long hours is the norm for alot of radiologist.

The rest of your reasons seem valid, but obviously do your due diligence

 

[IJL]

Lol. If you're talking about Chosen1's threads, maybe.

What do you mean by that?

 

[link2swim06]

Lol. If you're talking about Chosen1's threads, maybe.

I think I know who you are talking about...yes he thinks the sky is falling.

However, there was a study published (last year?) which cited most graduating residents were having a little trouble finding good jobs. We all hear about radiologists making 500K+, but per that study and other anecdotal people/thread it seems those are extremely rare to get initially after graduation without prior connection.

I like radiology, but I think alot of med students have a false idea of it. Per the research I have done it seems like the specialty involves a lot of hours and not exactly high paying compared to other specialties with a 5 year residency + fellowship.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is my opinion after killing alot of time on the forums of auntiminie.

 

[drizzt3117]

I think the hours are better than any inpatient specialty. As an academic physician who has many administrative and research responsibities, my PI works maybe... a weekend every 6 weeks? Otherwise 8-6 M-F except every 6th week he stays till 8 or so. He has probably 2-3 months vacation at least. Private practice attendings have significantly better lifestyle as they split the call pool among far more people and have fewer administrative and research responsibilities. I am at a very high volume and busy academic center. It's not derm lifestyle, but what is?

As far as pay goes, when I was at Stanford on my away this last summer, I befriended a girl who worked in their credit union. She told me that she processed setting up a new credit line for one of the newly hired breast radiologists who started at over 400 (pay stub/HR paperwork proven) That's at an academic center in a very desirable area, so the rumors regarding low salaries for new hires are pretty exaggerated IMO. My buddy who was recently hired here at my TY program (medium sized comm hospital) started north of 500 w/o a fellowship.

I think I know who you are talking about...yes he thinks the sky is falling.

However, there was a study published (last year?) which cited most graduating residents were having a little trouble finding good jobs. We all hear about radiologists making 500K+, but per that study and other anecdotal people/thread it seems those are extremely rare to get initially after graduation without prior connection.

I like radiology, but I think alot of med students have a false idea of it. Per the research I have done it seems like the specialty involves a lot of hours and not exactly high paying compared to other specialties with a 5 year residency + fellowship.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is my opinion after killing alot of time on the forums of auntiminie.

 

[duckie99]

radiologists are still among the top earners in medicine. Hours wise I would imagine they work 50-60 per week. There are pros and cons to the work. Pros include scheduled hours, not necessarily having to obsess over cases after work, etc. Cons include some monotony in my opinion.

I think if you find the field interesting, enjoy the work flow, etc. then radiology is right for you. You can still get great jobs but you may have to be flexible. People in other fields are complaining as well, just look at anesthesia. Cardiologists are having to move in to hospital systems because they cannot financially support the equipment they need. If you as a radiologist own a CT scanner, MRI scanner, etc you can easily have a private practice business (if you can sustain the volume necessary for maintenance). If you just want to read studies your income is often based on your output and with technology these days you are more productive than in the past. If you don't mind stuff like mammo (which maybe some people don't like) then you'll never have a problem finding a job.

Every field has is pros and cons. OP, I think your scores are more than good to get a decent radiology spot. Research in the field likely isn't hard to come by and usually is not very time consuming. So go meet with your program director to get hooked in. Find some time to spend in the reading room as well to get a feel for the work.

 

[cowme]

I think the hours are better than any inpatient specialty. As an academic physician who has many administrative and research responsibities, my PI works maybe... a weekend every 6 weeks? Otherwise 8-6 M-F except every 6th week he stays till 8 or so. He has probably 2-3 months vacation at least. Private practice attendings have significantly better lifestyle as they split the call pool among far more people and have fewer administrative and research responsibilities. I am at a very high volume and busy academic center. It's not derm lifestyle, but what is?

As far as pay goes, when I was at Stanford on my away this last summer, I befriended a girl who worked in their credit union. She told me that she processed setting up a new credit line for one of the newly hired breast radiologists who started at over 400 (pay stub/HR paperwork proven) That's at an academic center in a very desirable area, so the rumors regarding low salaries for new hires are pretty exaggerated IMO. My buddy who was recently hired here at my TY program (medium sized comm hospital) started north of 500 w/o a fellowship.

While stories like this may be true, please do not enter this field because you expect to make 500K in palo alto without a fellowship. For every success story, there are also PLENTY of recent radiology grads who had to move to a city they didn't really want to be in, or take a job for significantly less money than what they hoped for. I can tell you from personal experience with residents at a "top 10" program, that most starting salaries will be below this (maybe the effect is more prominent on the east coast where we have so many more programs).

Having unrealistic expectations is the exact reason that we have so many angry posters at auntminnie.

 

[Asp]

Starting salary for radiology is only slightly higher or equal to EM currently (except its a much longer residency and you are expected to get a fellowship on top of that).

Top end in radiology is twice that of EM. However the residency is also twice as long, and private practice radiologists probably work twice as hard (not necessarily hours wise, but intellectually) as your typical community hospital EM attending. So I would say $$ / effort is about the same.

Radiology has obviously taken a step back with the CMS cuts, but in general salaries have not fallen, people are just working 4-5% harder for the same amount of money.

 

[Asp]

She told me that she processed setting up a new credit line for one of the newly hired breast radiologists who started at over 400 (pay stub/HR paperwork proven) That's at an academic center in a very desirable area, so the rumors regarding low salaries for new hires are pretty exaggerated IMO. My buddy who was recently hired here at my TY program (medium sized comm hospital) started north of 500 w/o a fellowship.

This is not the norm. At my previous institution the assistant professors start out at less than 200k - granted that was coastal California. And you generally need a fellowship to make 500k out the gate, especially if you're working somewhere desirable. Typically 500k+ is more partnership level pay which depending on your region would start after 1-3 years. You would typically only start at 500k in an undesirable location.

Not questioning your numbers. Just pointing out to medical students that those are best-case scenario numbers.

 

[drizzt3117]

Keep in mind my TY is not in CA, it's in the Midwest, in not the most desirable area, so that person starting at 500 w/o FS wasn't in coastal CA. The person starting at 400+ was fellowship trained but WAS in palo alto.

This is not the norm. At my previous institution the assistant professors start out at less than 200k - granted that was coastal California. And you generally need a fellowship to make 500k out the gate, especially if you're working somewhere desirable. Typically 500k+ is more partnership level pay which depending on your region would start after 1-3 years. You would typically only start at 500k in an undesirable location.

Not questioning your numbers. Just pointing out to medical students that those are best-case scenario numbers.

 

[Asp]

Ah that makes sense. 400 for an academic position starting out is pretty impressive. Generally the academics at the institution I'm familiar with only made 300-400 depending on their level of experience and subspecialization. Although the big dogs in the department made significantly more (think 500, 600+).

One of the best jobs in medicine has to be radiology chairman or superstar academic at a coastal California university. These guys make around 500 or more, live in a nice location, and have an extremely cush lifestyle compared to private practice. While the average private practice job is probably better than the average academic job, at the top end, the best academic jobs just cannot be beat.

Though if you really want to make bank in academics, become an interventional cardiologist. The director of the Sulpizio Cardiovascular Center at UC San Diego, for instance, made 736,325.96 in 2011 (publicly available info - all UC salaries are available online). And that's not counting any consulting, travel, or private sector gigs he has on the side!

Still, in the end, do what you love. With the impending demise of Medicare and the rise of Obamacare, plus the overall jealousy of the primary care practitioners, the money cannot be guaranteed to be there in ten years.

 

[osumc2015]

Going back to an earlier point - how much research is necessary to match into radiology residencies - I don't mean a top program necessarily (I don't think I care at this point), just any program in a big city? I've done research in two other fields (no publications), and have a poster presentation and publication from undergrad (in psych, but worth mentioning I guess), but basically no experience in radiology. I think the field is pretty cool, but I've been a little scared off because I've gotten the impression that research is a more important consideration than in other specialties and I am pretty sure that I don't have any interest in research or academic medicine, regardless of what field I end up in.

Also, and this might be (probably is) a dumb question - is there any health risk to being around the imaging machines on a daily basis over the course of your career? Sort of hard to find info on this, and SD people can be harsh when you ask a dumb question..

Thanks for any info

 

[Asp]

Going back to an earlier point - how much research is necessary to match into radiology residencies - I don't mean a top program necessarily (I don't think I care at this point), just any program in a big city? I've done research in two other fields (no publications), and have a poster presentation and publication from undergrad (in psych, but worth mentioning I guess), but basically no experience in radiology. I think the field is pretty cool, but I've been a little scared off because I've gotten the impression that research is a more important consideration than in other specialties and I am pretty sure that I don't have any interest in research or academic medicine, regardless of what field I end up in.

Also, and this might be (probably is) a dumb question - is there any health risk to being around the imaging machines on a daily basis over the course of your career? Sort of hard to find info on this, and SD people can be harsh when you ask a dumb question..

Thanks for any info

You don't need any research if you're AOA and 260+. If you are top quartile and 250+ that's probably good enough, too. Radiology isn't like rad onc - you don't have to have extensive research - most graduating residents/fellows go into private practice.

 

[Asp]

Also, and this might be (probably is) a dumb question - is there any health risk to being around the imaging machines on a daily basis over the course of your career? Sort of hard to find info on this, and SD people can be harsh when you ask a dumb question..

There may be risk if you do high volume interventional radiology and aren't careful around the fluoro machine. But virtually none for your average diagnostic radiologist who maybe does a couple procedures a month.

 

[IJL]

You don't need any research if you're AOA and 260+. If you are top quartile and 250+ that's probably good enough, too. Radiology isn't like rad onc - you don't have to have extensive research - most graduating residents/fellows go into private practice.

What about 50th percentile grade wise and 255 step?

 

[Asp]

What about 50th percentile grade wise and 255 step?

Assuming 50th percentile at a NIH top 40 medical school..

Your chances in California are not stellar. Anywhere else -- you're good to go!

 

[IJL]

Assuming 50th percentile at a NIH top 40 medical school..

Your chances in California are not stellar. Anywhere else -- you're good to go!

lol thanks. I'm not really gunning for Cali and I'm at a top 20 school... Mainly I just hope I can find a job when I'm through.

 

[Asp]

lol thanks. I'm not really gunning for Cali and I'm at a top 20 school... Mainly I just hope I can find a job when I'm through.

Good attitude!

That superstar who matches in Cali will likely land his dream job pulling 400 in Palo Alto. But guess what? He'll still feel middle class. He has to compete against Google and Facebook multimillionaires (though divide those latter millions by HALF given the current stock price -- hahaha; you know what's cool in Palo Alto? Not a million. A BILLION dollars.). Good luck buying a decent pad for less than 2 mil in north Palo Alto against that competition. Maybe you can get Steve Job's old place on Waverly?

Whereas 500+ in the Midwest you will feel RICH. Aston Martin rich. International playboy rich. Private jet timeshare rich. Plus you won't have the high state taxes and impending state bankruptcy that is California. Something to think about!

tl;dr: You will never be cool as a doctor in coastal California. In Bay Area the innovators and startup hackers reign supreme. In LA the glitz and glamor of Hollywood overpower you. If you want to feel rich and alpha move to the Midwest.

 

[Dr. USMLE]

Good attitude!

That superstar who matches in Cali will likely land his dream job pulling 400 in Palo Alto. But guess what? He'll still feel middle class. He has to compete against Google and Facebook multimillionaires (though divide those latter millions by HALF given the current stock price -- hahaha; you know what's cool in Palo Alto? Not a million. A BILLION dollars.). Good luck buying a decent pad for less than 2 mil in north Palo Alto against that competition. Maybe you can get Steve Job's old place on Waverly?

Whereas 500+ in the Midwest you will feel RICH. Aston Martin rich. International playboy rich. Private jet timeshare rich. Plus you won't have the high state taxes and impending state bankruptcy that is California. Something to think about!

tl;dr: You will never be cool as a doctor in coastal California. In Bay Area the innovators and startup hackers reign supreme. In LA the glitz and glamor of Hollywood overpower you. If you want to feel rich and alpha move to the Midwest.

Haha...great post.

 

[ManBroDude]

I don't care how much more they pay me, I couldn't live in Oklahoma.

 

[IJL]

I don't care how much more they pay me, I couldn't live in Oklahoma.

Sweet, manbrodude.