- Joined
- Oct 20, 2002
- Messages
- 127
- Reaction score
- 0
Sophie Davis BS/MD or Brooklyn College BA/MD
- Thread starter Moneyless
- Start date
- Joined
- May 25, 2002
- Messages
- 87
- Reaction score
- 0
BROOKLYN COLL. ... BETTER PROGRAM
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2002
- Messages
- 837
- Reaction score
- 1
brooklyn college much better
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2002
- Messages
- 65
- Reaction score
- 0
I have never heard of either program, but from your descriptions above it seems like the Brooklyn College program offers more flexibility in terms of undergraduate education. Also, it will probably allow you to explore a variety of medical fields instead of immediately committing to primary care, right? 8 years is a long time, and unless you are absolutely, positively sure that you want to do primary care, it seems like a big commitment to me. Another question to ask yourself is whether your intention is simply to have a backup school come 4 years in case you don't get in anywhere else, or whether you actually intend to go to these medical schools. If the former, Brooklyn would be at a disadvantage because you lose the MD spot as soon as you apply out.
(I must admit I'm not a huge fan of BA/MD programs in general though ... I was accepted to a couple of them and am so glad, in retrospect, that I turned them down, so my opinions might be a bit biased.)
(I must admit I'm not a huge fan of BA/MD programs in general though ... I was accepted to a couple of them and am so glad, in retrospect, that I turned them down, so my opinions might be a bit biased.)
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2003
- Messages
- 143
- Reaction score
- 0
Brooklyn College.
Better program. Of the 6 schools you might "match" into at Sophie Davis, only NYU is better than SUNY-Brooklyn. (By better=match list, reputation,etc.)
Better school. Brooklyn College will offer a better education than CCNY.
More flexibility. You can apply out. Granted you'll lose your spot, but the only way you'd apply out is if you had excellent grades, MCATs, and letters of recommendation. Which means a very good chance of getting into another school, should you want to go for a top-tier med. school.
No need to go into primary care. Let's face it, primary care sucks. You can't make a very good living, and NP's and PA's are doing more every day. Even if you like the idea of primary care, there's no telling what your interests will be 8 years from now, so why limit your options?
Better program. Of the 6 schools you might "match" into at Sophie Davis, only NYU is better than SUNY-Brooklyn. (By better=match list, reputation,etc.)
Better school. Brooklyn College will offer a better education than CCNY.
More flexibility. You can apply out. Granted you'll lose your spot, but the only way you'd apply out is if you had excellent grades, MCATs, and letters of recommendation. Which means a very good chance of getting into another school, should you want to go for a top-tier med. school.
No need to go into primary care. Let's face it, primary care sucks. You can't make a very good living, and NP's and PA's are doing more every day. Even if you like the idea of primary care, there's no telling what your interests will be 8 years from now, so why limit your options?
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2002
- Messages
- 334
- Reaction score
- 1
Is there a reason that you're choosing Brooklyn college over Hopkins or Chicago for undergrad? I think you're totally selling yourself short
Stuy is a top notch high school, and I'm sure you worked your a$$ off for 4 years. Don't you feel that you deserve to go to a challenging undergrad where your peers will be as intellectually exciting as you? Hopkins and Chicago are top notch schools, and I don't know why you would choose Brooklyn over one of those. I think you're afraid to fail at Hopkins or Chicago, but trust me, you will thrive. If you've made it through Stuy, you'll make it through Hopkins or Chicago. On top of that, coming from Brooklyn, it will be hard to match into a competitive residency. Now you might be interested in primary care, but you're only 18. When you're 26 and deciding where to apply for residency, you might decide to do ENT or derm, but you'll be stuck in a different residency because of the choice to go to Brooklyn, a choice that you made out of fear at the age of 18.
Not to say that it's impossible to match into derm from Brooklyn, but it's not likely
If you go to Hopkins or Chicago, you'll be puting yourself in a good situation to get into a top med school and keep your options open for academic medicine, research, or whatever suits your boat.
Plus, what if you decide at Brooklyn College that you want to do something else instead of medicine, like oh let's say a lawyer or whatever. Then you're stuck at Brooklyn College without the guaranteed MD and without an intellectually stimulating environment like you can find at hopkins or chicago
Stuy is a top notch high school, and I'm sure you worked your a$$ off for 4 years. Don't you feel that you deserve to go to a challenging undergrad where your peers will be as intellectually exciting as you? Hopkins and Chicago are top notch schools, and I don't know why you would choose Brooklyn over one of those. I think you're afraid to fail at Hopkins or Chicago, but trust me, you will thrive. If you've made it through Stuy, you'll make it through Hopkins or Chicago. On top of that, coming from Brooklyn, it will be hard to match into a competitive residency. Now you might be interested in primary care, but you're only 18. When you're 26 and deciding where to apply for residency, you might decide to do ENT or derm, but you'll be stuck in a different residency because of the choice to go to Brooklyn, a choice that you made out of fear at the age of 18.
Not to say that it's impossible to match into derm from Brooklyn, but it's not likely
If you go to Hopkins or Chicago, you'll be puting yourself in a good situation to get into a top med school and keep your options open for academic medicine, research, or whatever suits your boat.
Plus, what if you decide at Brooklyn College that you want to do something else instead of medicine, like oh let's say a lawyer or whatever. Then you're stuck at Brooklyn College without the guaranteed MD and without an intellectually stimulating environment like you can find at hopkins or chicago
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2002
- Messages
- 179
- Reaction score
- 0
5 in 2000, 5 in 2001, 3 in 2002
they seem to have a pretty decent match. In no way is he doomed to primary care if he goes there. I don't know why you're knocking it like that.
D
deleted4401
Hey,
The Sophie program is pretty weak, and you have no idea which med school you'll end up at, and you're stuck doing primary care, even if you aren't sure about it. I wanted to do primary care when I was an undergrad, and I wrote my essay on it. This is year 2 of med school and I wouldn't touch primary care anymore, even though I do feel it is a noble profession (for the salary, one step away from sainthood, hehe).
I don't know much about Brooklyn College, but at Brooklyn Med you're going to get a hell of a clinical experience and be able to do whatever specialty you want. Don't believe the person above that says it's hard to match into Derm or ENT from Brooklyn Med. If you smoke your boards and do well in rotations, you'll get to do whatever specialty you want. It ain't Harvard, but it is still a great school. As long as you're smart, hard working, and interesting in an interview, you'll hold your own.
Good luck,
Simul
The Sophie program is pretty weak, and you have no idea which med school you'll end up at, and you're stuck doing primary care, even if you aren't sure about it. I wanted to do primary care when I was an undergrad, and I wrote my essay on it. This is year 2 of med school and I wouldn't touch primary care anymore, even though I do feel it is a noble profession (for the salary, one step away from sainthood, hehe).
I don't know much about Brooklyn College, but at Brooklyn Med you're going to get a hell of a clinical experience and be able to do whatever specialty you want. Don't believe the person above that says it's hard to match into Derm or ENT from Brooklyn Med. If you smoke your boards and do well in rotations, you'll get to do whatever specialty you want. It ain't Harvard, but it is still a great school. As long as you're smart, hard working, and interesting in an interview, you'll hold your own.
Good luck,
Simul
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2002
- Messages
- 243
- Reaction score
- 1
1) u are not stuck in primary care......u just have to pay a fine if you dont chose primary care. And a good % do not chose primary care
2) Most sophie match to down state....in my year, 20s...out of 56 (est). funny, how Down State actualy got the top students.....and NYU did not. This is not coincidence...The students who are confident in their abilities know they will rock the boards anyways...so why pay NYU $.
3) Once u get through sophie...u are almost get disgusted with primary care....since thats all they tell you from freshmen year college.
4) And as for the city college myth...sophites take most of their undergrad classes with sophites......independent form city college
5) Most sophie students...were accepted in ivy leagues also....so trust me, the quality if each class is not city college standard. Where do most sophie students come from...stuy, tech, bx. sci......belive me, ur peers are not going to be ur average joes.
And the level of material is definitetly not city college standard.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2002
- Messages
- 243
- Reaction score
- 1
And when i signed the contract...the fine was 70,000 i belive.
NOW...lets assume i decided to attend Columbia...or Georgetown, where i was also accepted...
35+k x 4 years
then some med school
35-50k x 4years...
do the math
sophie....i have not paid a cent...scholarships covered everything.
and yeah i matched to down state for my clinicals....thats about 30k for 2 years. + the 70k....
the difference is clear.
ok, so the argument is DS is not a prestigious med sch. Bla bla bla?people..thE STEP 1 is the great equalizer. Yes your school counts a little?.however, If I score a 250 on my boards and u score a 210 , while attending John Prestigious School of Medicine? I have the advantage.
NOW...lets assume i decided to attend Columbia...or Georgetown, where i was also accepted...
35+k x 4 years
then some med school
35-50k x 4years...
do the math
sophie....i have not paid a cent...scholarships covered everything.
and yeah i matched to down state for my clinicals....thats about 30k for 2 years. + the 70k....
the difference is clear.
ok, so the argument is DS is not a prestigious med sch. Bla bla bla?people..thE STEP 1 is the great equalizer. Yes your school counts a little?.however, If I score a 250 on my boards and u score a 210 , while attending John Prestigious School of Medicine? I have the advantage.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
- Messages
- 82
- Reaction score
- 0
Your analysis breaks down there as it does when people try to make those sorts of comparisons. You cannot compare your possible 250 at a non-prestigious school against someone else with a 210 at another school.
Instead, the relevant comparison is the score you would receive at the non-prestigious school versus the score YOU would receive at the prestigious school. In this case, if you got a 250 at the non-prestigious school, it's likely you would receive a 250 at the prestigious school. That, and you'd get the extra bump from attending a better school.
However, instead of assuming you would receive a 250 and fall within the top 2% of medical school students, it is far more reasonable to assume that you will receive a score between 195 - 236, that is somewhere between the standard deviations. Assuming you would receive the same score at both schools, the boost from attending a significantly more reputable school is now much larger and clearly increases the lower your score is.
Remember, only the top 15% of each class is AOA and is probably getting truly high board scores. If everyone who "worked hard" could be at the top of their class, then everyone on this board is apparently top 15% destined, because all I read is people assuming that's what will happen. The top students at Brooklyn will undoubtedly match into wherever they want. But, what about the AVERAGE student, and a below-average student? The average student or below average student at a top school like Hopkins will still have his pick of residencies.
Instead, the relevant comparison is the score you would receive at the non-prestigious school versus the score YOU would receive at the prestigious school. In this case, if you got a 250 at the non-prestigious school, it's likely you would receive a 250 at the prestigious school. That, and you'd get the extra bump from attending a better school.
However, instead of assuming you would receive a 250 and fall within the top 2% of medical school students, it is far more reasonable to assume that you will receive a score between 195 - 236, that is somewhere between the standard deviations. Assuming you would receive the same score at both schools, the boost from attending a significantly more reputable school is now much larger and clearly increases the lower your score is.
Remember, only the top 15% of each class is AOA and is probably getting truly high board scores. If everyone who "worked hard" could be at the top of their class, then everyone on this board is apparently top 15% destined, because all I read is people assuming that's what will happen. The top students at Brooklyn will undoubtedly match into wherever they want. But, what about the AVERAGE student, and a below-average student? The average student or below average student at a top school like Hopkins will still have his pick of residencies.
- Joined
- May 13, 2002
- Messages
- 4,755
- Reaction score
- 8
word. tega is on the mark.
even though its not my first choice, i would **love** to go to downstate, it is a fine school. and even though premeds tend to get caught up in stuff like rankings and such, med school (like life) is what you make of it. you get out what you put in, so if you bust your ass, get a 240 in step 1, graduate in the top 10 or 20%, you'll go wherever the hell you want for residency.
i also agree with premed2003 though, if you killed yourself at stuyvesant, (i know i did) you should pursue a more challenging undergraduate experience. believe me, unless you go to MIT or Cal Tech you're not going to work harder in college than you did in high school. That being said, i think there is something to be said for going to one of those great schools and doing what you want for the right reasons. you are going to be a doctor either way, why not go to hopkins or chicago, learn what you want for 4 years, have some freedom and FUN, and let the med school thing take care of itself.
even though its not my first choice, i would **love** to go to downstate, it is a fine school. and even though premeds tend to get caught up in stuff like rankings and such, med school (like life) is what you make of it. you get out what you put in, so if you bust your ass, get a 240 in step 1, graduate in the top 10 or 20%, you'll go wherever the hell you want for residency.
i also agree with premed2003 though, if you killed yourself at stuyvesant, (i know i did) you should pursue a more challenging undergraduate experience. believe me, unless you go to MIT or Cal Tech you're not going to work harder in college than you did in high school. That being said, i think there is something to be said for going to one of those great schools and doing what you want for the right reasons. you are going to be a doctor either way, why not go to hopkins or chicago, learn what you want for 4 years, have some freedom and FUN, and let the med school thing take care of itself.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2002
- Messages
- 638
- Reaction score
- 12
The most prestigious med schools certainly open doors and allow for opportunities other schools do not,if one had the choice between Johns Hopkins and Downstate then its pretty clear.But a choice between guaranteed admission to Downstate vs.an ivy league undergrad institution is far from obvious.Many pre meds at prestigious colleges wash out altogether and others end up in middle level med schools like Tufts and Jefferson anyway and not at Duke and Penn.The cost savings can be tremendous over 8 years at the Brooklyn program,perhaps as much as 200K less in loans.. not to mention the interest! As far as residency matches goes Downstate does very well (including Hospital for Speicial Surgery and Mayo Clinic for Ortho this year and several to Derm every year) Yes the average student and below average from a top school does better than the average student from Downstate(or the great majority of US med schools for that matter) but thats not really the choice when considering a BA/MD program versus a pre med program.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2002
- Messages
- 334
- Reaction score
- 1
There are many things that should deter Moneyless from Brooklyn
1) Who's to say that you can't be in the top of your class at Hopkins undergrad and go to Hopkins med? Even the average premed student at Hopkins will go to an above average med school
2) You succeeded at Stuy. Why don't you think you'll succeed in college? Don't get deterred by fear. In 4 years from now, you might regret this
3) Undergrad is not a stepping stone to med school. You have to enjoy the whole journey. You'll likely have more fun at Hopkins or Chicago where all students and profs are top notch
4) MOST IMPORTANT. WHAT IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND AND DON'T DO MEDICINE BECAUSE YOU HATE IT? You might have a little experience now, but you need to be older than 18 to really and truly know what you want to do for the rest of your life. you should enter college with an open mind and see where you go from there
1) Who's to say that you can't be in the top of your class at Hopkins undergrad and go to Hopkins med? Even the average premed student at Hopkins will go to an above average med school
2) You succeeded at Stuy. Why don't you think you'll succeed in college? Don't get deterred by fear. In 4 years from now, you might regret this
3) Undergrad is not a stepping stone to med school. You have to enjoy the whole journey. You'll likely have more fun at Hopkins or Chicago where all students and profs are top notch
4) MOST IMPORTANT. WHAT IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND AND DON'T DO MEDICINE BECAUSE YOU HATE IT? You might have a little experience now, but you need to be older than 18 to really and truly know what you want to do for the rest of your life. you should enter college with an open mind and see where you go from there
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Messages
- 39
- Reaction score
- 0
premed2003 hit it so hard on the mark, I need to commend him. There is only one thing you should think about here: what if you decide not to go to med school????
Don't say "oh, that's impossible, I've always wanted to go, I know I won't change my mind." That's load of horse-bunk!!! I went to a top ivy-league undergrad before med school. I was friends with people who came into college gung-ho pre-meds. Guess what? A not insignificant number of them are now in law school, working on wall street, etc.!!!!!!!!
The point is that you have no idea where your interests will take you in the next several years. If you think you're gonna be the same person with the same opinions, same outlooks, same personal committments 4 years from now, I can assure you: you will most likely not be. If you think there is any truth resonating here, do yourself a favor and go to the BEST undergrad you can get into, regardless of the cost. Trust me, the money will mean nothing to you compared with the experience, friends, connections you will develop over 4 years at one of our preeminent undergrad institutions.
I don't mean to be offensive, but CUNY is a mediocre undergrad at best, even if it is true that you'd be taking classes with other "smart" students who "could have gone to ivy league schools". The fact is that you'll be a commuter student taking classes with "smart" pre-meds and that's it. It's very one-dimensional. You'll miss out on all the late night philosophical arguments/debates with people who are poli sci , religion, english, art majors who come from all over the country and world. I can honestly say that I learned more outside of the classroom than I did in the classroom during my 4 years in college. I think other people here can give me an AMEN to that!!!
Don't say "oh, that's impossible, I've always wanted to go, I know I won't change my mind." That's load of horse-bunk!!! I went to a top ivy-league undergrad before med school. I was friends with people who came into college gung-ho pre-meds. Guess what? A not insignificant number of them are now in law school, working on wall street, etc.!!!!!!!!
The point is that you have no idea where your interests will take you in the next several years. If you think you're gonna be the same person with the same opinions, same outlooks, same personal committments 4 years from now, I can assure you: you will most likely not be. If you think there is any truth resonating here, do yourself a favor and go to the BEST undergrad you can get into, regardless of the cost. Trust me, the money will mean nothing to you compared with the experience, friends, connections you will develop over 4 years at one of our preeminent undergrad institutions.
I don't mean to be offensive, but CUNY is a mediocre undergrad at best, even if it is true that you'd be taking classes with other "smart" students who "could have gone to ivy league schools". The fact is that you'll be a commuter student taking classes with "smart" pre-meds and that's it. It's very one-dimensional. You'll miss out on all the late night philosophical arguments/debates with people who are poli sci , religion, english, art majors who come from all over the country and world. I can honestly say that I learned more outside of the classroom than I did in the classroom during my 4 years in college. I think other people here can give me an AMEN to that!!!
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2002
- Messages
- 334
- Reaction score
- 1
almostMD, exactly exactly. We're on the same wavelength
D
deleted4401
sigh ... i know what you all are saying, but still...
i went to Northwestern for undergrad, and it kicked my butt. if i didn't do so hot on my MCAT, i wouldn't be where i am now. i think some people do really know they want to do medicine. i think a guarantee to brooklyn med (or through sophie) is a pretty good situation. i didn't mean to say sophie is a bad program, that's my bad. i do think it is somewhat advantageous to go through a 'real' four year undergrad experience, and a 'real' four year medical school experience. admittedly, that is purely subjective and just my own opinion.
i know what you guys are saying about all the interesting people you meet, and the discussions you have all night at a good undergrad program. however, the stress i went through, the mediocrity of my GPA (relatively speaking), and prospects of not getting in on the first try ... well, let's just say that i'm happy my little cousin got into the cincinnati med 8 year program. at least he'll not have the 800 gorilla on his back (named 'NOT GETTING IN'), and if he changes his mind about med school, it's fine, he'll still do well at his undergrad.
guarantees are good. when i was 18, I definitely would have turned down a BA/MD, because i wasn't risk averse, and you couldn't stop me from going to the finest undergrad that i got into. Knowing what I know now and how hard it is to get into a good med school ... I think I'd be a lot more risk averse and probably just take the sure thing.
things turned out well for me, but if they didn't, i'd kick myself for not taking the BA/MD route.
anyway, i think there is definitely pros and cons, but i think it's hard to say that it is DEFINITELY better to go to hopkins or chicago or whatever for undergrad. who knows - maybe he'll hate the pretentiousness and arrogance that's there ... it irritated the crap out of me, sometimes. different strokes for different folks.
simul
i went to Northwestern for undergrad, and it kicked my butt. if i didn't do so hot on my MCAT, i wouldn't be where i am now. i think some people do really know they want to do medicine. i think a guarantee to brooklyn med (or through sophie) is a pretty good situation. i didn't mean to say sophie is a bad program, that's my bad. i do think it is somewhat advantageous to go through a 'real' four year undergrad experience, and a 'real' four year medical school experience. admittedly, that is purely subjective and just my own opinion.
i know what you guys are saying about all the interesting people you meet, and the discussions you have all night at a good undergrad program. however, the stress i went through, the mediocrity of my GPA (relatively speaking), and prospects of not getting in on the first try ... well, let's just say that i'm happy my little cousin got into the cincinnati med 8 year program. at least he'll not have the 800 gorilla on his back (named 'NOT GETTING IN'), and if he changes his mind about med school, it's fine, he'll still do well at his undergrad.
guarantees are good. when i was 18, I definitely would have turned down a BA/MD, because i wasn't risk averse, and you couldn't stop me from going to the finest undergrad that i got into. Knowing what I know now and how hard it is to get into a good med school ... I think I'd be a lot more risk averse and probably just take the sure thing.
things turned out well for me, but if they didn't, i'd kick myself for not taking the BA/MD route.
anyway, i think there is definitely pros and cons, but i think it's hard to say that it is DEFINITELY better to go to hopkins or chicago or whatever for undergrad. who knows - maybe he'll hate the pretentiousness and arrogance that's there ... it irritated the crap out of me, sometimes. different strokes for different folks.
simul
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2002
- Messages
- 127
- Reaction score
- 0
the reason I've ruled out U Chicago is because I've heard the premed track there really really stinks... like U Chicago sucks for science...
and JHU, because I'm waitlisted...
I think I'm leaning towards Sophie Davis, because of the NYU factor... but the thing is, does where u go for the last 2 clinical years matter for residency?
Also, does anyone know how the SDers vs Brooklynites Board scores?
thanks all!
and JHU, because I'm waitlisted...
I think I'm leaning towards Sophie Davis, because of the NYU factor... but the thing is, does where u go for the last 2 clinical years matter for residency?
Also, does anyone know how the SDers vs Brooklynites Board scores?
thanks all!
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2003
- Messages
- 143
- Reaction score
- 0
yes. but there's no guarantee you'll get into NYU.
your board score has more to do with you than with the school. Proper preparation is the key. and you wouldn't be able to compare the 2 because most of the downstate class is not BA/MD.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2002
- Messages
- 127
- Reaction score
- 0
I think I'm leaning towards Sophie Davis... and I highly suspect I'll end up paying the 75K...
is there anything I should be aware of about the program? I've heard it's really really difficult and time consuming...
thanks all!
is there anything I should be aware of about the program? I've heard it's really really difficult and time consuming...
thanks all!
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2002
- Messages
- 179
- Reaction score
- 0
that means they don't expect you to pay it immediately, but they will charge you interest on it.
For example, current prime rate is 4.25, which would mean you'd pay interest at 6.25 %. However, the rate could change a lot between now and 8 years from now, or whenever it is you'd get the charge.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2002
- Messages
- 243
- Reaction score
- 1
Yes, I?ll acquiesce CUNYs are not the best of the lot. So one would not be interacting with the best poli sci majors, or other liberal art majors out there?.(I wouldn?t want to anywyz, most CUNY students are left of the Kennedy?s?.they would make Bostonians look conservative). But unless your parents are very affluent, I don?t think choosing a sch. Based on the above fact is a luxury one can afford. Especially if you r certain u want to become a doctor. And let us be honest, most premed, knew they wanted to be Doctors from High Sch. And chances are, they will not be changing their minds unless the heavy hands of orgo strikes.
Now as for academic challenge??.i always say this?.if you were not going to survive premed anywhere?.chances are, u will fail out of sophie. My entering class was 74. Only aprox. 45 of that original are left. More than 20 were out, even before we started the medical limb of the program. Most were out after the first year. We take chem and orgo the first year...so the "weeding out" process starts very early.
oh yeah.....MOST Sophie students dont cummute.....so we try our best to create a "college atmosphere".
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2002
- Messages
- 243
- Reaction score
- 1
and you are actually correct. sophie is very one dimensional....you will not get a rich liberal arts education. But hey.....read a few books each week (if u have any time
)....And you'll be fine. And i have seen many doctors...their knowledge outside of the scientific arena is lacking......not all of them are sophie alumnis But hey.....no one is goin to ask you to explain the neo-conservative influence in american for. policy while performing splenectomy. But learning outside of the classroom really is an individual thing...of course attending those top institutions would facilitate the this process better, but this is a luxury not a necessity.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Messages
- 39
- Reaction score
- 0
Please. First of all, the mere suggestion that "reading a few books each week outside of class" can make you a well rounded individual is absurd. The real value of attending a top undergrad college is in the countless hours of interaction you have with your peers. These are the people who are highly educated and can speak intelligently about many subjects other than science. I'm afraid hanging around your peers at sophie davis is not even in the same ballpark.
And to counter your point: yes, you do indeed have pretty interesting discussions while standing around in the OR removing someone's spleen. Life is all about what you do during the down-time. I had some of the most enlightening discussions of my life in the OR while waiting for one of the residents to harvest the saphenous vein for a coronary bypass. If you have no historical, literary or artistic perspective, how can you expect to be an interesting conversationalist?
If you are not in med school yet, you will soon learn that people who can only talk about science or medicine are considered duds who no one wants to hang out with. You will find that when you go out with your friends and are sitting at a bar or at someone's apartment drinking, the last thing you want to talk about is med school or medicine. I personally like to hang out with people who know a thing or two about other aspects of life and can teach me something.
And here's another little secret I've learned after 4 years of med school: the people who get the best grades on the wards are those people who not only know their medicine, but who also know how to talk politics, current events, etc. with the residents and attendings. Like I said, your superiors' and your colleagues' opinions of you as a person are largely dependent upon how interesting you are to them. I dare say a resident would rather be on a long night call with someone he can shoot the **** with about sports or politics than with someone with no intellect who only wants to talk shop all night.
This all goes back to my original thesis: go to the best undergrad you can and make yourself an interesting person. Do this by hanging around interesting people!!
oh and p.s.: it doesn't matter how expensive the top undergrad institutions are - borrow it all like I did; it will all pay off in the long run!
And to counter your point: yes, you do indeed have pretty interesting discussions while standing around in the OR removing someone's spleen. Life is all about what you do during the down-time. I had some of the most enlightening discussions of my life in the OR while waiting for one of the residents to harvest the saphenous vein for a coronary bypass. If you have no historical, literary or artistic perspective, how can you expect to be an interesting conversationalist?
If you are not in med school yet, you will soon learn that people who can only talk about science or medicine are considered duds who no one wants to hang out with. You will find that when you go out with your friends and are sitting at a bar or at someone's apartment drinking, the last thing you want to talk about is med school or medicine. I personally like to hang out with people who know a thing or two about other aspects of life and can teach me something.
And here's another little secret I've learned after 4 years of med school: the people who get the best grades on the wards are those people who not only know their medicine, but who also know how to talk politics, current events, etc. with the residents and attendings. Like I said, your superiors' and your colleagues' opinions of you as a person are largely dependent upon how interesting you are to them. I dare say a resident would rather be on a long night call with someone he can shoot the **** with about sports or politics than with someone with no intellect who only wants to talk shop all night.
This all goes back to my original thesis: go to the best undergrad you can and make yourself an interesting person. Do this by hanging around interesting people!!
oh and p.s.: it doesn't matter how expensive the top undergrad institutions are - borrow it all like I did; it will all pay off in the long run!
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2002
- Messages
- 243
- Reaction score
- 1
I agree with you. But like I said previously, I do not believe attending the best undergrad is a requirement to becoming an ?interesting conversationalist?.
When I interviewed for my clinical match with the cooperating med schools, a majority of the conversations centered on politics. Probably because I introduced my essay with "the Senator Bill Frist....." So I understand the need for an individual to be multifarious.
There are many ways to acquire the necessary information needed to interact with your peers, and I m sorry to say Harvard et al is not the only source. Of course it would be very convenient to walk down the hall, and meet one of the top Roman history students. But again this a luxury, not a necessity. And it is quite presumptuous of you to assume a sophite?s (damn, this term is corny) interactions are only limited to other sophites. I spent les than half my time around my colleagues during our undergrad years. If ones goal is to acquire non-scientific knowledge?this very possible in todays world without the benefit of attending a yale. And mind you, I have interacted with your so called top undergrad pre-med grads, and many of them are not cognizant of pertinent issues of the today or yesterdays world. Not to mention, they a socially dull and uglyD?..the ugly part is a joke?columbia chicks are actually hot).
And to say u need to go to the best undergrad to interact with interesting persons is just ludicrous.....I just hope u don?t have this elitist attitude when dealing with your attendees cuz one of them may just have graduated from an ?inferior under grad?.
Acquisition of knowledge is very much an individual endeavor
Anywyz I have a path exam to study?so im out.
When I interviewed for my clinical match with the cooperating med schools, a majority of the conversations centered on politics. Probably because I introduced my essay with "the Senator Bill Frist....." So I understand the need for an individual to be multifarious.
There are many ways to acquire the necessary information needed to interact with your peers, and I m sorry to say Harvard et al is not the only source. Of course it would be very convenient to walk down the hall, and meet one of the top Roman history students. But again this a luxury, not a necessity. And it is quite presumptuous of you to assume a sophite?s (damn, this term is corny) interactions are only limited to other sophites. I spent les than half my time around my colleagues during our undergrad years. If ones goal is to acquire non-scientific knowledge?this very possible in todays world without the benefit of attending a yale. And mind you, I have interacted with your so called top undergrad pre-med grads, and many of them are not cognizant of pertinent issues of the today or yesterdays world. Not to mention, they a socially dull and ugly
D?..the ugly part is a joke?columbia chicks are actually hot). And to say u need to go to the best undergrad to interact with interesting persons is just ludicrous.....I just hope u don?t have this elitist attitude when dealing with your attendees cuz one of them may just have graduated from an ?inferior under grad?.
Acquisition of knowledge is very much an individual endeavor
Anywyz I have a path exam to study?so im out.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2002
- Messages
- 334
- Reaction score
- 1
Moneyless says that Chicago has a bad premed program, but are you positive about this? Chicago's med school is top notch so I would think that the Chicago premed program would be good. Have you really looked into this or is it just a rumor?
Tega said that all doctors knew they wanted to be docs in high school This might be true, but LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT DOCTORS ALSO WANTED TO BE DOCTORS IN HIGH SCHOOL . This is important because you should go to college with an open mind and then decide if medicine is definitely for you.
If you have a cchance to go to a top school like Chicago, you should jump at the chane.. Undergrad is not a stepping stone to med school. It shoud be viewed as a journey. You should enjoy every second of undergrad and you'll have lots of opportunities for research and prof interactions et al at Chicago. Sophie sounds very unifaceted and you would not be able to see if there is something that you like even better than medicine. 10 years from now, i don't want you to think "what if?...."
Tega said that all doctors knew they wanted to be docs in high school This might be true, but LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT DOCTORS ALSO WANTED TO BE DOCTORS IN HIGH SCHOOL . This is important because you should go to college with an open mind and then decide if medicine is definitely for you.
If you have a cchance to go to a top school like Chicago, you should jump at the chane.. Undergrad is not a stepping stone to med school. It shoud be viewed as a journey. You should enjoy every second of undergrad and you'll have lots of opportunities for research and prof interactions et al at Chicago. Sophie sounds very unifaceted and you would not be able to see if there is something that you like even better than medicine. 10 years from now, i don't want you to think "what if?...."
Hey all,
Just another Stuy student chiming in (there must be quite a number of us lurking in the shadows on SDN).
I was wondering what everyone's opinion is of the following BA/MD programs:
Northwestern HPME
Brown HPME
NYU BaMD
and of the following schools (in terms of the pre-med educational quality and acceptance rate into med schools):
Cornell
Duke
Dartmouth
Stanford
UPenn
To moneyless, based on my conversations with various NYU 3rd and 4th years SUNY downstate is good if you want to do primary care, pediatrics, and other minimally competitive residencies. If however, you change your mind in med school and want to match into a competitive residency such as derm, ophtho, or radio you'll be in a bind. My suggestion is JHU for undergrad. Then again I'm just a Stuy Junior and have the wonderful application and acceptance/rejection process to look forward to
Just another Stuy student chiming in (there must be quite a number of us lurking in the shadows on SDN).
I was wondering what everyone's opinion is of the following BA/MD programs:
Northwestern HPME
Brown HPME
NYU BaMD
and of the following schools (in terms of the pre-med educational quality and acceptance rate into med schools):
Cornell
Duke
Dartmouth
Stanford
UPenn
To moneyless, based on my conversations with various NYU 3rd and 4th years SUNY downstate is good if you want to do primary care, pediatrics, and other minimally competitive residencies. If however, you change your mind in med school and want to match into a competitive residency such as derm, ophtho, or radio you'll be in a bind. My suggestion is JHU for undergrad. Then again I'm just a Stuy Junior and have the wonderful application and acceptance/rejection process to look forward to
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2002
- Messages
- 638
- Reaction score
- 12
The matchlists from Downstate indicate plenty of matches into competitive specialties so I dont agree that its only for primary care!! http://sls.downstate.edu/studentaffairs/match.html
- Joined
- Jun 3, 1999
- Messages
- 3,733
- Reaction score
- 5
Ahem, considering that in the Class of 2003 at Downstate about 45% of MS4s went into primary care residenicies (not counting OB/GYN), I don't see how "SUNY Downstate is good if you want to do primary care, pediatrics, and other minimally competitive residencies." We also had a superior Orthopedic Surgery match compared to NYU.
Now I'm not implying that we're better than the NYU School of Medicine (by my account, we're not) or that we're even on equal footing, but SUNY Downstate is HARDLY a primary care oriented school and should you want to do a competitive residency it'll happen. It won't be easy to get into a competitive residency whether you're from SUNY, NYU, or Harvard (OK, well maybe not Harvard).
If you want balanced informaton about a school, don't just go to one source. Asking NYU Med students about SUNY Downstate is like asking someone from Stuyvesant whether or not Brooklyn Tech is a good school (which is not to imply that NYU Med=Stuy and SUNY Downstate=Tech).
In regards to this Sophie Davis vs. Brooklyn College BA/MD program, I'd go along with what my Stuyvesant friend says and go to either Hopkins or Chicago. You'll get a well-rounded education, interact with people who have seen the world outside New York City, and have a great education to show for it. These guaranteed programs are nice, but you only get one chance to go through college in life, why would you want to be stuck in a mediocre college and only talk to Joe Schmoe from around the corner for four years? Don't you want to live? You won't regret it. Going to a place like Hopkins or Chicago will undoubtedly land you in a great med school.
As for the rigors of a Stuyvesant education, quite frankly, I remember a report from an enterprising Stuy student of the Class of 1995 that showed there was a tremendous amount of grade inflation at Stuy and that more than half of the senior class had a grade average of 92-93 out of 100. That's hardly rigorous. Compared to my graduating class of Brooklyn Technical High School in 1995, a grade average of 92-93 meant you were in the upper 10% of the class.
ALL HAIL BROOKLYN TECH! Where my Technites at?
All in good fun of course. I have tremendous respect only for those who graduated the Bronx High School of Science and Brooklyn Tech.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2002
- Messages
- 33
- Reaction score
- 0
umm... if you goto sophie davis thinking you'll goto NYU, you'd better talk to some of the current students. I've spent 2 years hearing many of them bitch about how they deserved to get into NYU and they didn;t just because they weren't the "right" minority.
