Speaking of vet school getting stupid expensive....

[LetItSnow]

This is the quote that I was referring to:

"I'm not about taking *opportunity* away from anyone ... but I think it's foolish to squander education resources on people who aren't really making good use of them."

Seems to me that Pell Grant recipients are making good use of their financial aid. Just as much as those students that do not need them.

Ok, but... you do realize that nowhere in that quote do I specifically suggest that Pell Grant recipients are generally the culprits? You keep defending an attack that isn't actually there.

Public support for education is far more expansive than just Pell Grant recipients. For instance, at the CC I did my vet pre-reqs at, they loved to remind us that our tuition only covered about half the cost of our education. The rest came from state funding - otherwise known as public money. So even though I paid my tuition out of pocket with absolutely no loan or assistance; I still was a recipient of public support.

So re-read my original comments with that context - that every single student in a public school is receiving public funding - and you'll see that I was most certainly not going after Pell Grant recipients specifically.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[August West]

And the thing we are arguing that you don't seem to be getting is that increasing the numbers of either of those pools - those who need them or those who don't - is what the problem here is. Unless it comes at the expense of the other group.

Restated, it'd be fine if it means that it some of those who weren't previously eligible for Pell Grants now are - that's not really increasing the supply. But that isn't what Obama's stated goal is...

I would have no problem with the government increasing funds and the size of the recipient pool for the Pell Grant program had such an initiative not come at the expense of another educational program. After all, low-income families are those that are hit hardest during a recession. In fact, I rarely find myself in opposition to any measures that increase funding for education in America. I just think that there are too many alternative funding and revenue sources still available to warrant cutting out subsidies for graduate students. But that's a discussion for a completely different forum.

Sorry if I misunderstood anyone's sentiments. Cheers.

 

[LetItSnow]

In fact, I rarely find myself in opposition to any measures that increase funding for education in America. I just think that there are too many alternative funding and revenue sources still available to warrant cutting out subsidies for graduate students.

Amen.

I think the only point we actually disagree on, if we cut away the sniping at each other, is that I think we ought to increase public funding (*dramatically*) AND at the same time reduce the overall student headcount by requiring (somehow) a level of performance (of all students), whereas I think you're saying there's nothing wrong with the number of people in college. We probably aren't going to see eye to eye on that part of the debate.

 

[August West]

Amen.

I think the only point we actually disagree on, if we cut away the sniping at each other, is that I think we ought to increase public funding (*dramatically*) AND at the same time reduce the overall student headcount by requiring (somehow) a level of performance (of all students), whereas I think you're saying there's nothing wrong with the number of people in college. We probably aren't going to see eye to eye on that part of the debate.

My points were specifically targeted to Pell Grants and their recipients, which I understood to be the focus of this discussion, with the recent changes to federal government policy on their funding. I think this might have been the source of misunderstanding. Pell Grants are need-based and not performance-based, and I think that is necessary. The statistics show that the program is working and that recipients are performing at levels on par with students that do not receive such funding. As for other government aid vehicles available, I would be curious to see numbers on how successful they are in terms of student performance. I know that there are GPA requirements as eligibility for most types of financial aid. However, it is probably set at a pretty low standard, at least in my opinion. 2.0 perhaps. Not sure, though. A good discussion can be had regarding reforming such initiatives to make them more efficient and effective. However, like I said, I was under the impression that we were chiming in on the new rebalancing of Pell Grants vs. graduate subsidized loans funding.

Sorry if that intention got lost. No harm intended I assure you.