Navy Special Pay Guidance

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One detail I didn’t catch was that this was service specific for the first time. That’s interesting. The Army recruiters will have a field day with that (like they used to use GMO tours)
 
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Gastrapathy said:
One detail I didn’t catch was that this was service specific for the first time. That’s interesting. The Army recruiters will have a field day with that (like they used to use GMO tours)
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Somewhere someone is printing some extra intraservice transfer paperwork
 
Members don't see this ad :)
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D'oh.

Does anyone have a link to the army and air force documents?
 
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Totally unrelated, but a friend of mine saw this recently while working at the Chicago comicon. WTF, guys?
 
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HighPriest said:
Totally unrelated, but a friend of mine saw this recently while working at the Chicago comicon. WTF, guys?
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And, as you put on the uniform, you also have to sign a "damage waiver", in case you soil the uniform, oh, and, there's just some legal boilerplate that means nothing* at the bottom of the waiver.

* "Nothing", in this case, means that we own you
 
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HighPriest said:
View attachment 297189

Totally unrelated, but a friend of mine saw this recently while working at the Chicago comicon. WTF, guys?
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Makes me sad.

There's been a trend the last 5 or 10 years (or maybe it's always been this way, and I just started noticing) that any and all media produced by the Navy for advertising or educational purposes is just over the top awkwardly hip. It's not quite to the level of

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but ... well, yeah I guess it is. Everything from these ads to the mandatory annual "Cybersecurity Awareness Challenge" and "Don't Rape People" online training is saturated with lame efforts to make it some kind of interactive cool game. The implication being that every Sailor is a child with ADHD who needs to be entertained or he'll throw his Cheerios on the floor.

Maybe I'm just old and lame myself, and the younger generation really does connect with this stuff. It just makes me tired and a little embarrassed to see recruiting like this. Once upon a time we were just formally professional in all things and that style of grownup competence and professionalism was appealing all by itself.

The Marines still recruit that way. The Few, The Proud.

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Even their minority-focused ads have are based on core values (literally):

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Cosplay as a Sailor? Sigh. :smack:
 
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pgg said:
Makes me sad.

There's been a trend the last 5 or 10 years (or maybe it's always been this way, and I just started noticing) that any and all media produced by the Navy for advertising or educational purposes is just over the top awkwardly hip. It's not quite to the level of

View attachment 297191

but ... well, yeah I guess it is. Everything from these ads to the mandatory annual "Cybersecurity Awareness Challenge" and "Don't Rape People" online training is saturated with lame efforts to make it some kind of interactive cool game. The implication being that every Sailor is a child with ADHD who needs to be entertained or he'll throw his Cheerios on the floor.

Maybe I'm just old and lame myself, and the younger generation really does connect with this stuff. It just makes me tired and a little embarrassed to see recruiting like this. Once upon a time we were just formally professional in all things and that style of grownup competence and professionalism was appealing all by itself.

The Marines still recruit that way. The Few, The Proud.

16383873484_2b0a9418c0_b.jpg


EDF588AE70EA4CAEAEC1EC85ED39CCDC.jpg


marine-billboard-1500.jpg


Even their minority-focused ads have are based on core values (literally):

14798353965_bb373d901c_b.jpg


Cosplay as a Sailor? Sigh. :smack:
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(Full Grown Man in a Sailor Moon costume):
“Wow, I never considered joining the Navy before, but now I feel a connection. And best of all, I now know it won’t change my lifestyle to join!”
 
So my first response to seeing that picture was to wonder whether I’m just completely out of touch. Maybe it’s how you recruit OS, IT, etc. Throw in some free Cheetos
 
What is interesting in contrast is how retention bonuses are back for the reserves, and now reservists are eligible to sign contracts for prorated (daily/per BA) board and specialty pay.

It seems we are seeing more pay actions in an effort to move physicians from AD to reserves.
 
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Members don't see this ad :)
SirGecko said:
Follow up blog post on mccarreer.org

Sounds like on that FAQ that PERS wanted to get rid of retention bonuses altogether for the overmanned specialties and the cuts were a compromise? Am I reading that right?
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that’s certainly the message they are trying to send. But the bottom line is that they changed the terminology a couple of years ago with this play in mind. Special pays used to be understood to serve to lessen the pay gap to civilian practice. When they became RBs, this was the inevitable planned next step.
 
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Changes for MSC:

Pharmacy, optometry, social work reduced in $ and to 2 year max contracts.

RB not authorized for O-6 and above OR more than 22 years commissioned service.

Cannot enter RB agreement if owe time for anything else (including non-specialty training).

For situational awareness, this last bullet makes MSC officers who are normally eligible for RB the only people in the Navy that “pay” to go to Naval Postgraduate School or Naval War College. All other Officer communities are not punished by their community for following SECNAV guidance to achieve graduate education.
 
Call me an optimist but wouldn’t it be nice for the military to allow ultra short term contracts for those wanting to serve. With clauses for immediate separation and recoupment of pay. If you don’t like the military here is your way out. Honestly in certain environments the day to day work can be quite fulfilling. If servicemembers could have an immediate way out I bet those that are left over would be those with a true desire to serve. Honestly for enlisted sailors they smoke pot, or they do something stupid they get separated. As highly trained assets their is no immediate separation( if you can do your job you will be retained). Cash out options should exist. Social factors can impact productivity. Some doctors are round pegs squished into a triangle. For 2-3 years this is tolerable for 8 years....
 
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narcusprince said:
Call me an optimist but wouldn’t it be nice for the military to allow ultra short term contracts for those wanting to serve. With clauses for immediate separation and recoupment of pay. If you don’t like the military here is your way out. Honestly in certain environments the day to day work can be quite fulfilling. If servicemembers could have an immediate way out I bet those that are left over would be those with a true desire to serve. Honestly for enlisted sailors they smoke pot, or they do something stupid they get separated. As highly trained assets their is no immediate separation( if you can do your job you will be retained). Cash out options should exist. Social factors can impact productivity. Some doctors are round pegs squished into a triangle. For 2-3 years this is tolerable for 8 years....
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Too many would pop smoke with deployment upcoming which defeats the purpose of having them to begin with
 
narcusprince said:
Call me an optimist but wouldn’t it be nice for the military to allow ultra short term contracts for those wanting to serve.
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Yeah, it's called the reserves. And for the highly educated staff corps type (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc), it's probably the right way to go. The military can't train (and keep trained) highly skilled professionals during peace time. That job is much better done in the civilian sector. Reservize the entire staff corps I say. Mobilize when needed to fight, demobilize when done.
 
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DrMetal said:
Yeah, it's called the reserves. And for the highly educated staff corps type (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc), it's probably the right way to go. The military can't train (and keep trained) highly skilled professionals during peace time. That job is much better done in the civilian sector. Reservize the entire staff corps I say. Mobilize when needed to fight, demobilize when done.
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This is the right way to go. Create a large reserve force. Call me an optimist but I don’t think if the door was open people would run out at the first sign of trouble. I think the long term goals of the military would be fulfilled of utilization and release. I do not think people leave the military due to deployments. I think pay and autonomy are higher priorities.
 
narcusprince said:
This is the right way to go. Create a large reserve force. Call me an optimist but I don’t think if the door was open people would run out at the first sign of trouble. I think the long term goals of the military would be fulfilled of utilization and release. I do not think people leave the military due to deployments. I think pay and autonomy are higher priorities.
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It's interesting, I'm an armchair historian. If you look at the history of our military, for a large part of its existence, it was just this: a small AD force augmented by a large reserve force when necessary (1776 to 1945), with a draft of course. Then during the Cold War (~1946-1990), we felt the need to expand the AD force---eventually becoming all volunteer, ending the draft---and it became the large bureaucratic mess that it is today. After the Cold War, we've by trying to trim the fat little by little (x 2-3 BRACs, cuts in staff corps type services, etc). So the cuts and force-shaping we're seeing today are still a ramification of the post-Cold Ward drawdown, I think.

Bring back the draft too I say. Paradoxically, I bet we'd fight less wars.
 
narcusprince said:
This is the right way to go. Create a large reserve force. Call me an optimist but I don’t think if the door was open people would run out at the first sign of trouble. I think the long term goals of the military would be fulfilled of utilization and release. I do not think people leave the military due to deployments. I think pay and autonomy are higher priorities.
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I’m calling you an optimist.
 
narcusprince said:
Call me an optimist but wouldn’t it be nice for the military to allow ultra short term contracts for those wanting to serve. With clauses for immediate separation and recoupment of pay. If you don’t like the military here is your way out. Honestly in certain environments the day to day work can be quite fulfilling. If servicemembers could have an immediate way out I bet those that are left over would be those with a true desire to serve. Honestly for enlisted sailors they smoke pot, or they do something stupid they get separated. As highly trained assets their is no immediate separation( if you can do your job you will be retained). Cash out options should exist. Social factors can impact productivity. Some doctors are round pegs squished into a triangle. For 2-3 years this is tolerable for 8 years....
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They do something like that on the enlisted side, the National Call To Service program. People can enlist for 15 months. They get a small signup bonus, some student loan repayment, and a reduced GI Bill benefit. There's a 2 year reserve obligation that follows (or they can stay active if they like it). I assume there's probably IRR to follow.

This program always seemed like it'd be better suited to physicians than enlisted, since the physicians would come in fully trained whereas the enlisted need an investment of boot camp and other training.
 
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DrMetal said:
Yeah, it's called the reserves. And for the highly educated staff corps type (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc), it's probably the right way to go. The military can't train (and keep trained) highly skilled professionals during peace time. That job is much better done in the civilian sector. Reservize the entire staff corps I say. Mobilize when needed to fight, demobilize when done.
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What highly educated civilian professional has a job that they can mobilize from for 9 months at a time?
 
sb247 said:
Reserve component docs are 3month deploymets right now (pa is 6)
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That is news to me. In 3 years I have had 9 month and 6 month deployments in the reserves. At least Navy, there are no 3 month deployments that I know of
 
My opinion. A predominately Navy reserve medical corps may succeed if they shorten deployment length and fix CCPD central credentialing. It takes forever to get credentialed and re-credentialed. Then, ICTB to hospitals deployed to or AT is another slow point. Can’t tell you how much time I wasted trying to get this done! Otherwise, I have enjoyed the reserves. The HPSP retirement credit is very nice. TRICARE Reserve select saves me a ton of money on insurance and yearly CWS bonus is a great post-Christmas present.
 
militaryPHYS said:
I bet they rethink slashing internal medicine, ID, critical care and FP retentions now.
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Seems unlikely.

It wouldn't matter anyway. The doctors they encourage to leave military service don't stop being doctors. They'll still be in the workforce to handle things like this.
 
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pgg said:
Seems unlikely.

It wouldn't matter anyway. The doctors they encourage to leave military service don't stop being doctors. They'll still be in the workforce to handle things like this.
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Yeah but they'll be in the wrong places. How do you think the military line feels about relying on the local civilian medical systems near Lemoore, Twenytnine Palms, and Guam at a time like this?
 
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Perrotfish said:
Yeah but they'll be in the wrong places. How do you think the military line feels about relying on the local civilian medical systems near Lemoore, Twenytnine Palms, and Guam at a time like this?
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Well, Lemoore never had any ICU beds in the first place. They have always relied on civilians. Not sure what 29 Palms had or has.

In the context of dealing with a pandemic, I'm not so sure having a deployable medical force is even that useful when all locations anticipate being overwhelmed. For example, they're sending the Comfort to New York but pulling staff from MTFs to do it, which leaves those MTFs with fewer staff.

In any case, disaster response seems better suited to a reserve force. Ideally the actives remain in their support the warfighter role in order to kill people and break things abroad on a moment's notice, lest adversaries think they have a window to misbehave.
 
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pgg said:
Well, Lemoore never had any ICU beds in the first place. They have always relied on civilians. Not sure what 29 Palms had or has.

In the context of dealing with a pandemic, I'm not so sure having a deployable medical force is even that useful when all locations anticipate being overwhelmed. For example, they're sending the Comfort to New York but pulling staff from MTFs to do it, which leaves those MTFs with fewer staff.

In any case, disaster response seems better suited to a reserve force. Ideally the actives remain in their support the warfighter role in order to kill people and break things abroad on a moment's notice, lest adversaries think they have a window to misbehave.
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In a situation like this pulling local reserve docs from hospitals doesn’t help at all, maybe docs from less impacted areas
 
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just fer funz: When I got out of the Army after getting wounded in Iraq in 2007 and forced out retired license etc in 2010 (head injury, etc)..I MADE LESS AS A LTC THAN AS A RESIDENT MOONLIGHTING in an ER (120k/yr). While deployed, I made around 117k/year with all my 'specialty', language, combat and hazard pays! If you are in for anything it is UP your pay. So UP yours;)
 
Aleaz said:
just fer funz: When I got out of the Army after getting wounded in Iraq in 2007 and forced out retired license etc in 2010 (head injury, etc)..I MADE LESS AS A LTC THAN AS A RESIDENT MOONLIGHTING in an ER (120k/yr). While deployed, I made around 117k/year with all my 'specialty', language, combat and hazard pays! If you are in for anything it is UP your pay. So UP yours;)
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You get the prize for most coherent post of the year.
 
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www.militarytimes.com

Key Senate panel approves 3 percent pay raise for troops next year

If approved, troops would see back-to-back years with 3 percent pay raises for the first time in a decade.
www.militarytimes.com www.militarytimes.com


Personnel subcommittee Chairman Sen. Thom Tillis, R-N.C., said his panel’s draft section of the measure also includes increased incentive pays for military health care professionals, in an effort to continue recruiting those specialists amid the ongoing coronavirus pandemic.
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I wonder if COVID-19 has led them to rethink the decision to use the special pay system to encourage the departure of "non war critical" physicians.
 
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pgg said:
www.militarytimes.com

Key Senate panel approves 3 percent pay raise for troops next year

If approved, troops would see back-to-back years with 3 percent pay raises for the first time in a decade.
www.militarytimes.com www.militarytimes.com




I wonder if COVID-19 has led them to rethink the decision to use the special pay system to encourage the departure of "non war critical" physicians.
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A nice statement by Sen. Tillis. I warmly welcome such sentiments and the extra money that comes with it. [But we all know that truthfully military medicine has as much to due with the COVID pandemic as a Tijuana hooker does with sex education.]
 
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militaryPHYS said:
I'd really like to get my hands on that section of the draft
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So would I.

Although it bears mentioning that it's June, this is just one draft of just the Senate's stab at the budget for next year. It'd be interesting to see what a few Senators are thinking right now, but we're a long way from anything becoming reality.

And, the details of how the special pays are apportioned to different specialties, and the terms of those payments (IP vs retention bonuses vs accession bonuses etc) seem to be completely in the hands of the services. I'm not sure we'll ever get useful information out of a bill passed by Congress and signed by the President ... as always it's going to be in the annual special pay guidance document.
 
But how often do we have early public releases about specifics of incentive pay?

I'm hoping this shift is in response to the increased media attention that MilMed has gotten over the last 2-3 years and less to do with COVID, although COVID likely helped incentivize.
 
Just got a look at Section 612.

It is essentially DOUBLING or more allowable bonuses across the board. Doesn't mean each service will use max amount allowable, but it gives the ability to increase substantially.

For Example:
SEC 612. INCREASE IN SPECIAL AND INCENTIVE PAYS FOR OFFICERS IN HEALTH PROFESSIONS
"Accession Bonus - Strike $30,000 and inserting $100,000"
"Accession Bonus (critical wartime) - Strike $100,000 and inserting $200,000"
"Incentive Pay - striking $100,000 and inserting $200,000; striking $15,000 and inserting $50,000"
"Board Certification Pay - Striking $6,000 and inserting $15,000"

Let's hope it keeps moving forward as written. Also allows for hazard duty pay for those in COVID response.
 
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militaryPHYS said:
Just got a look at Section 612.

It is essentially DOUBLING or more allowable bonuses across the board. Doesn't mean each service will use max amount allowable, but it gives the ability to increase substantially.

For Example:
SEC 612. INCREASE IN SPECIAL AND INCENTIVE PAYS FOR OFFICERS IN HEALTH PROFESSIONS
"Accession Bonus - Strike $30,000 and inserting $100,000"
"Accession Bonus (critical wartime) - Strike $100,000 and inserting $200,000"
"Incentive Pay - striking $100,000 and inserting $200,000; striking $15,000 and inserting $50,000"
"Board Certification Pay - Striking $6,000 and inserting $15,000"

Let's hope it keeps moving forward as written. Also allows for hazard duty pay for those in COVID response.
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Yeah and the Navy already has been reminding people for at least the last year and a half that they don't have to pay the max and don't want to. It'd be nice if they increased our pay (heck board certification should come with a higher incentive than 6K at the very least) but I really doubt this winds up actually increasing pay in the Navy at least.
 
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SirGecko said:
Yeah and the Navy already has been reminding people for at least the last year and a half that they don't have to pay the max and don't want to. It'd be nice if they increased our pay (heck board certification should come with a higher incentive than 6K at the very least) but I really doubt this winds up actually increasing pay in the Navy at least.
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How many of this eat the pentagon think as physicians we already get paid too much. Some BC physicians can make more than a one or two star as an O4, I bet that might generate some jealousy or resentment.
 
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