Specific Advice for Non-Traditional Student

[Voytkostudios]

Hello all,

I've tried my best to make sure that this isn't a repeat. Most similar threads seem to be in other fields than Psychology.

I'm 26, and I graduated with a B.A. in Theatre in December of 2015. I was just recently rejected from the PhD program in Clin Psych at George Mason. It was expected. I'm not necessarily a prime candidate. I have little research experience (aside from some independents studies I did in undergrad). My general GRE scores were good (166/153/5.0), but my Psych GRE score were only okay (670). I've taken more Psych courses since graduating (including Abnormal, Multicultural, and Statistics). I don't have Research Methods, but I was told by GMU that my science lab courses would suffice for that.

Here are the things I need to do before I feel I'm ready to be competitive in a PhD program:

- Find a better job (one related to research/psychology). I'm currently working in communications for a medical transport company. My current jobs pays well enough but I work twelve hour shifts which doesn't leave much time/energy for volunteer research.
- Take some more classes in Psych (including research methods).
- Start reaching out to professors in the field that line up with my interests to hopefully get some leads on mentors.
- Probably re-take the Psych GRE.

Obviously I've got a ways to go before I'm ready for a PhD, but I'm starting to wonder if that's what right for me... I'm turning 27 this year, and a PhD program is at least 3 years. Perhaps a PsyD would be better to get me out and practicing... After all I can still call myself Dr with a PsyD.

My main concerns regarding PsyD programs are:

- Money (fewer, more competitive scholarship and financing options, and a higher debt to income ratio than PhD graduates).
- Licensing (I know there are fewer legitimate programs in this track, and that this degree is less widely accepted than a PhD).

I admit there's also a bit of ego at play here. A PsyD doesn't look as good as a PhD.

Alternatives to a PhD right now:

- Go out for a Masters and pick up on the PsyD/PhD later when I have some more experience.
- Look for a Post-bacc program in Psychology.
- Give up and become a wandering minstrel... lol.

I should stop rambling and just say that I'm feeling a bit lost and any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[erg923]

Hello all,

I've tried my best to make sure that this isn't a repeat. Most similar threads seem to be in other fields than Psychology.

I'm 26, and I graduated with a B.A. in Theatre in December of 2015. I was just recently rejected from the PhD program in Clin Psych at George Mason. It was expected. I'm not necessarily a prime candidate. I have little research experience (aside from some independents studies I did in undergrad). My general GRE scores were good (166/153/5.0), but my Psych GRE score were only okay (670). I've taken more Psych courses since graduating (including Abnormal, Multicultural, and Statistics). I don't have Research Methods, but I was told by GMU that my science lab courses would suffice for that.

Here are the things I need to do before I feel I'm ready to be competitive in a PhD program:

- Find a better job (one related to research/psychology). I'm currently working in communications for a medical transport company. My current jobs pays well enough but I work twelve hour shifts which doesn't leave much time/energy for volunteer research.
- Take some more classes in Psych (including research methods).
- Start reaching out to professors in the field that line up with my interests to hopefully get some leads on mentors.
- Probably re-take the Psych GRE.

Obviously I've got a ways to go before I'm ready for a PhD, but I'm starting to wonder if that's what right for me... I'm turning 27 this year, and a PhD program is at least 3 years. Perhaps a PsyD would be better to get me out and practicing... After all I can still call myself Dr with a PsyD.

My main concerns regarding PsyD programs are:

- Money (fewer, more competitive scholarship and financing options, and a higher debt to income ratio than PhD graduates).
- Licensing (I know there are fewer legitimate programs in this track, and that this degree is less widely accepted than a PhD).

I admit there's also a bit of ego at play here. A PsyD doesn't look as good as a PhD.

Alternatives to a PhD right now:

- Go out for a Masters and pick up on the PsyD/PhD later when I have some more experience.
- Look for a Post-bacc program in Psychology.
- Give up and become a wandering minstrel... lol.

I should stop rambling and just say that I'm feeling a bit lost and any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!!

Ph.D programs in clinical or counseling are at least 5 years, just FYI. I think the mode is actually 6.

Psy.D. programs are usually 4 or 5

 

[pediatric_psydoc]

If you go to an APA accredited PsyD program, you won't have trouble getting licensed if you pass the EPPP and state test. No one here will recommend going to an non-accredited program PsyD or PhD program, because that is when the licensing problems arise.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[WisNeuro]

*DOCTORAL APPLICANTS READ FIRST* Helpful Threads

 

[Voytkostudios]

Ph.D programs in clinical or counseling are at least 5 years, just FYI. I think the mode is actually 6.

Psy.D. programs are usually 4 or 5

Thanks. You can see why (at my age) I'm wondering if the Ph.D is right for me.

 

[jmiah717]

Thanks. You can see why (at my age) I'm wondering if the Ph.D is right for me.

Well, I'm 35 and trying to get back into school for a PhD....I'll be 37 before I ever start taking a class IF my plan works out.

Edit: I also think it's important for you to consider why you want to get a PsyD or PhD. If you just want to be called Dr., think hard about whether the time, money, lost income, etc. is worth an ego boost. I also think you'll really be flipping a coin as to whether or not psychology is for you if you do it for that reason. Maybe a master's degree?

 

[psych.meout]

Well, I'm 35 and trying to get back into school for a PhD....I'll be 37 before I ever start taking a class IF my plan works out.

Edit: I also think it's important for you to consider why you want to get a PsyD or PhD. If you just want to be called Dr., think hard about whether the time, money, lost income, etc. is worth an ego boost. I also think you'll really be flipping a coin as to whether or not psychology is for you if you do it for that reason. Maybe a master's degree?

OP, you seem to be more hung up on the cache and prestige of calling yourself a doctor and having a PhD than what you actually want to do with a doctorate, to the point that you are focused on getting things done as quickly as possible rather than doing them the right way. You seem to be interested in being a clinician, so if you are so focused on being older (you're not at all old for a doctoral program) and getting to practice as quickly as possible, maybe you should look for a master's program in counseling. You can be a mid-level provider working under a psychologist or psychiatrist and earn a really good return on your investment compared to the pay differential for a doctorate in private practice.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

Well, I'm 35 and trying to get back into school for a PhD....I'll be 37 before I ever start taking a class IF my plan works out.

High five. Starting this fall at 37.

 

[PsyDr]

Beggars can't be choosers. Which is especially apropos for a theater major.

No doctorate degree in psychology is 3 years. Doesn't happen.

The ratio of every other thing people call you to being called doctor is probably higher than you think. Might want to plan accordingly.

 

[jmiah717]

High five. Starting this fall at 37.

Awesome! I'm an LCSW and I have been practicing psychotherapy for quite a few years now. I'm working with a professor at a great institution on some research that hopefully I'll present at a conference in the next year or so. I'm also needing to take the GRE since it's been more than 5 years. I'm incredibly interested in neuro and I'm trying to figure out a way to blend that interest with my PTSD research so I'll have some opportunities if/when I get in. Best of luck!

 

[EverHopeful]

Hello all,

I've tried my best to make sure that this isn't a repeat. Most similar threads seem to be in other fields than Psychology.

I'm 26, and I graduated with a B.A. in Theatre in December of 2015. I was just recently rejected from the PhD program in Clin Psych at George Mason. It was expected. I'm not necessarily a prime candidate. I have little research experience (aside from some independents studies I did in undergrad). My general GRE scores were good (166/153/5.0), but my Psych GRE score were only okay (670). I've taken more Psych courses since graduating (including Abnormal, Multicultural, and Statistics). I don't have Research Methods, but I was told by GMU that my science lab courses would suffice for that.

Here are the things I need to do before I feel I'm ready to be competitive in a PhD program:

- Find a better job (one related to research/psychology). I'm currently working in communications for a medical transport company. My current jobs pays well enough but I work twelve hour shifts which doesn't leave much time/energy for volunteer research.
- Take some more classes in Psych (including research methods).
- Start reaching out to professors in the field that line up with my interests to hopefully get some leads on mentors.
- Probably re-take the Psych GRE.

Obviously I've got a ways to go before I'm ready for a PhD, but I'm starting to wonder if that's what right for me... I'm turning 27 this year, and a PhD program is at least 3 years. Perhaps a PsyD would be better to get me out and practicing... After all I can still call myself Dr with a PsyD.

My main concerns regarding PsyD programs are:

- Money (fewer, more competitive scholarship and financing options, and a higher debt to income ratio than PhD graduates).
- Licensing (I know there are fewer legitimate programs in this track, and that this degree is less widely accepted than a PhD).

I admit there's also a bit of ego at play here. A PsyD doesn't look as good as a PhD.

Alternatives to a PhD right now:

- Go out for a Masters and pick up on the PsyD/PhD later when I have some more experience.
- Look for a Post-bacc program in Psychology.
- Give up and become a wandering minstrel... lol.

I should stop rambling and just say that I'm feeling a bit lost and any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!!

What are you hoping to do with your degree? Since you are considering a PsyD, I am assuming that you are more focused on clinical work than research. The bulk of PhD programs and George Mason especially are very focused on research. This means to get into the program, they are looking for folks with experience in the research process (e.g., volunteering, posters, publications) and select those that are interested in a research-focused career. If you really want to get into a PhD, you are likely looking at 1-2 years of volunteer research experience before being competitive for a 6 year program. If you are hoping to primarily be a therapist and are concerned about time, I would strongly suggest looking at just a masters degree.

 

[metta.cognition]

Well, I'm 35 and trying to get back into school for a PhD....

High five. Starting this fall at 37.

Fist bump. Starting at 35.

It was tempting to accept an offer at an unfunded PsyD a few cycles ago, but I turned it down, went after more research experience, and got accepted to a funded PhD.

 

[jmiah717]

Fist bump. Starting at 35.

It was tempting to accept an offer at an unfunded PsyD a few cycles ago, but I turned it down, went after more research experience, and got accepted to a funded PhD.

Can you tell me a little more about your research experience that you were able to get? I'm only able to do part time in a lab as I work full time right now and I'm not going to take the huge financial hit until I'm actually in a program. My mentor seems to think that we should be able to get me to present at some conferences/posters, etc. She thinks framing that with the fact that I work a high stress full time clinical job at a VA will show dedication on top of the research experience, even if not an astounding amount of experience. I'm not applying this upcoming cycle, but the following year (2018-2019) in order to give myself enough time to better my applications.

 

[psych.meout]

Can you tell me a little more about your research experience that you were able to get? I'm only able to do part time in a lab as I work full time right now and I'm not going to take the huge financial hit until I'm actually in a program. My mentor seems to think that we should be able to get me to present at some conferences/posters, etc. She thinks framing that with the fact that I work a high stress full time clinical job at a VA will show dedication on top of the research experience, even if not an astounding amount of experience. I'm not applying this upcoming cycle, but the following year (2018-2019) in order to give myself enough time to better my applications.

It's somewhat less about being full-time or part-time in a lab (though, ideally, full-time is always better), and more about what your specific duties were in the lab, how you talk/write about it (i.e. personal statements and interviews), and if there are any tangible products from it (i.e. pubs and posters).

Are you doing data entry and grunt work that doesn't require much in the way of advanced skills and knowledge, or were you assuming progressively greater responsibilities and roles in conceptualizing the research, analyzing the results, and summarizing them through poster and manuscript prep?

How will you translate this research into a narrative for your personal statements and interviews? What has doing this research taught you and how will you apply what you have learned to your POIs lab and how will you build upon them during the program? Is there anything interesting or unique about your research that would be particularly interesting to POIs and other interviewers, e.g. statistical techniques, experimental protocols, population demographics, etc.? What was your involvement with these interesting details, what did you learn from them, and how would apply them to the future? Were there any difficulties you experienced during research, how did you overcome them and what did you learn for the future?

When I interviewed (and received multiple offers to fully-funded programs), I was frequently asked these and other questions about my research and clinical experiences. The best advice I can give is to anticipate these and other questions, but not to simply have good answers in case they are asked. Instead, weave the answers into your spiel and discussion during interviews. Thus, you not only have good answers for questions about your background, you show the insight and forethought to have independently asked and answered these questions for yourself.

 

[jmiah717]

It's somewhat less about being full-time or part-time in a lab (though, ideally, full-time is always better), and more about what your specific duties were in the lab, how you talk/write about it (i.e. personal statements and interviews), and if there are any tangible products from it (i.e. pubs and posters).

Are you doing data entry and grunt work that doesn't require much in the way of advanced skills and knowledge, or were you assuming progressively greater responsibilities and roles in conceptualizing the research, analyzing the results, and summarizing them through poster and manuscript prep?

How will you translate this research into a narrative for your personal statements and interviews? What has doing this research taught you and how will you apply what you have learned to your POIs lab and how will you build upon them during the program? Is there anything interesting or unique about your research that would be particularly interesting to POIs and other interviewers, e.g. statistical techniques, experimental protocols, population demographics, etc.? What was your involvement with these interesting details, what did you learn from them, and how would apply them to the future? Were there any difficulties you experienced during research, how did you overcome them and what did you learn for the future?

When I interviewed (and received multiple offers to fully-funded programs), I was frequently asked these and other questions about my research and clinical experiences. The best advice I can give is to anticipate these and other questions, but not to simply have good answers in case they are asked. Instead, weave the answers into your spiel and discussion during interviews. Thus, you not only have good answers for questions about your background, you show the insight and forethought to have independently asked and answered these questions for yourself.

That's all very good information, thank you. I am right now doing the work of selecting our sample and deciding on exactly (helping with this part) what measures we will use. When the study really gets rolling, I will be heavily involved in crafting the paper and my mentor seems to be willing to allow me to be involved in as much as I can handle.


How will you translate this research into a narrative for your personal statements and interviews?
So, this is my biggest concern and I'm not sure how to tackle it. I have a lot of time but I want to think about this now so I'm not scrambling in a year and a half. Here's my dilemma: The research is looking at the mediating factors/relationships of PTSD/Student Veterans/committed relationships for student vets in committed relationships. All well and good if I plan to apply to POI's studying PTSD/relationships/vets/students/all of the above...however....That's not really my main interest. I don't think I want to end up studying those things for the rest of my career (if say, I land in academia). I AM interested in perhaps PTSD from a neuropsychological or psychophysiological perspective though/ perhaps differentiation with TBI, etc. I'm also interested in many of the other topics neuro has to offer and I fear that if I mention that on a statement, I'm going to seem too scattered. I don't have enough experience in neuro related research to speak intelligently about it to offer much to a lab studying that specifically. So, I kind of have to stick with what the gift horse has given me with this study I'm involved with. Should I maybe speak to my mentor about this and reach out to a neuro lab to try to double up on the experience? I reached out to a neuropsychologist colleague of mine today to see if he'd let me shadow him in his side gig. Barring those things, I'm not sure how to go about this. My other thought was - Just get in and go from there. So, focus on the PTSD end of things and try to get into programs with neuropsych faculty that maybe I can collaborate with? Thoughts?