Spouse Changed For The Worse

[All4MyDaughter]

I second (or third, whatever) the emotional affair theory. Whether or not the relationship with her friend is sexual doesn't matter. She's clearly elevated it to the status of primary relationship in her life. She's prioritized it above her relationship with you. Bad sign. Not your fault though.

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[Yourmother]

Agreed with the "give up for now" mentality. I've adopted that policy and so far, she has continued with her old habits.

In fact, she said she had some scheduled time with friends. I'm sure she attended the event but was a few hours late. It wouldn't be a big deal, I mean we all have friends and I want her to be happy. However, I have not seen her for a long time. We have spent very little time together and I was promised that after the program "things would change" and she'd be normal again, meaning we'd spend a little time together.

Well, the program is over and nothing has changed.

Well, as I wrote above. The reason she was a few hours late was because she was at her "study buddies" house. Anyhow, we've had many discussions and she knows my position. At this point it is time for her to make her decision. I stopped trying a month ago.

It really doesn't matter what I do. She does whatever she wants.

Ho-hum.

It could be worse and I'm becoming indifferent.

I enjoy the comments, so please continue.

 

[Yourmother]

I know this would be terrible in the long-term, but have you thought about just stopping trying?

already stopped trying a month ago.

 

[FruitFly]

Simple. Get a divorce. Over half of all marriages end in divorce. It's normal.

 

[MaddieMay]

Whatever you do, it's not going to be simple.

Have you told her that you want either therapy or a divorce, but that things will under no circumstances, continue the way they have been going?

Either way, have you considered individual therapy so you can make sure that the next gf you pick isn't the exact same way?

 

[Yourmother]

Whatever you do, it's not going to be simple.

Have you told her that you want either therapy or a divorce, but that things will under no circumstances, continue the way they have been going?

Either way, have you considered individual therapy so you can make sure that the next gf you pick isn't the exact same way?

Yes. I have.

Her policy has been to sweep it under the rug, act like there is no problem and just go on. For her, there is no problem. This place is like a hotel and I am like a parent.

 

[MaddieMay]

You have done which? Both?

How long has it been since she last swept it under the rug? Do you feel ready to say, "Shall I call a therapist or a divorce lawyer, darling?" and give her 24 hours to provide her preference?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Want to go out on a date with my (divorced) sister-in-law? She's cute!

 

[Josh L.Ac.]

My first wife started studying with a classmate excessively while we were in school. My master's degree program required a fair amount of time plus I worked full-time, and she was in a bachelor's degree and worked half-time. Needless to say, we didn't see each other much, so when I noticed she was hanging out with her study buddy more than she was with me (when we were free), I called her on it because actions speak louder than excused.


She was having an affair. We got divorced and I ended up marrying a much more suitable mate.

Call her on it. Worse case scenario, she is having an affair, you get divorced, and then meet somebody better. Don't wait until she no longer needs the financial stability you provide.


Edit - saw the update that the friend is female. Since my story happened in Seattle, I still stick to the possibility of an affair since I saw that scenario a few times. But even if it is just an emotional affair, I would still call her on it.

 

[love24]

I think MaddieMay is entirely correct: does your wife want divorce or therapy? On the level of communicating this to your wife, though, I have a couple of suggestions, given that she has thus-far refused therapy. The first would be to start by flat-out telling her that her program's over, nothing has changed, and that she has broken her promise. The second thing might help to take her off of the defensive, by using an extreme form of the "I-Statements" communication technique. In other words, say something like "I am not happy in this situation. I do not feel that you are committed to making our marriage work, and I believe that our marriage is not longer important to you. You may not feel the same way, but clearly there are problems that I, at least, will require the help of marriage counseling to work through. If you are committed to our marriage, you will do this for me. If not, tell me now so we can end this."

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Edit - saw the update that the friend is female. Since my story happened in Seattle, I still stick to the possibility of an affair since I saw that scenario a few times. But even if it is just an emotional affair, I would still call her on it.

LOL what does it being in Seattle have to do with it???

 

[xanthines]

Ha ha ha! I think he/she is alluding the the fact that Seattle is quite a liberal place and "non-traditional" relationships are tolerated well there.

It probably would've been more obvious if the poster was San Francisco.

-X

LOL what does it being in Seattle have to do with it???

 

[Yourmother]

These are all good suggestions. I know what I need to do. I am not afraid and I am slow to anger.

As far as communicating these idea, I have done so. I've moved to phase 2, which involved waiting. I'm waiting to see if she responds.

I doubt she will, but I want to exhaust every opportunity, every option, every avenue. I owe that to my marriage because this is more than a union between myself and my wife. I believe it to be a covenant with God, so I'm slow to shut the door.

But hear me, when the door is shut, it is shut forever. Perhaps I'm a little nerdy, somewhat traditional but I clean up well and in my early 30s. There is an old flame I let go 10 years ago, in a different city, in a different time, who is still single.

It will be her lose, but hey....

....that's life.

 

[Yourmother]

Want to go out on a date with my (divorced) sister-in-law? She's cute!

Don't tempt me.....you know we both live in the same city.

 

[HanginInThere]

As far as communicating these idea, I have done so. I've moved to phase 2, which involved waiting. I'm waiting to see if she responds.

How long are you going to wait? Does she know you're in this waiting phase? Does she know there's a deadline, and what the deadline is? Does she know what will happen after the waiting phase? Do you?

 

[MaddieMay]

Yeah, I'm gonna buttinsky here again and agree with Hangininthere. You want more "if... then" discussions with her. I say give her a damn week, she's been blowing you off for forever.

I am wondering what you mean by "shutting the door." Does that mean you announce you're getting a lawyer? Move out? Legally separate? Or is it when the divorce papers are final?

If you do one or more of these things it may actually inspire her to pull her head out of her BLEEP. That may be the best way of "giving her every chance."

Have you talked to your pastor/rabbi/priest/shaman about this?

 

[Yourmother]

as i've said, I've already asked about marriage counseling, blah, blah, blah......I'm done asking.

If things don't improve by the end of the month, we're separating. That means she'll be moving out, not me. After a few months, the door shuts and I'll file for divorce.

 

[Yourmother]

i know its easy to be a tough-guy on an internet forum, but this is the real deal for me.

I'm not real quick to tell her to get her crap out next week. I know you guys want blood. Like I said I'm slow to anger but when I shut the door, it is closed for good.

FYI- for those of you who may not comprehend. When I mention the word door is a merely symbolic. In this instance, door means opportunity. By shutting the door I mean terminating any opportunity.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Ha ha ha! I think he/she is alluding the the fact that Seattle is quite a liberal place and "non-traditional" relationships are tolerated well there.

It probably would've been more obvious if the poster was San Francisco.

-X

Yeah, but that's just silly. I live in the same city as the OP and there are plenty of "non-traditional" relationships. Living where we live makes it no less likely that his wife is having an affair with a chick. But he already knows that, because he lives here too.

I think I'm just at the idea that people in same-sex relationships are weirdos who congregate in certain cities or whatever.

 

[MaddieMay]

as i've said, I've already asked about marriage counseling, blah, blah, blah......I'm done asking.

If things don't improve by the end of the month, we're separating. That means she'll be moving out, not me. After a few months, the door shuts and I'll file for divorce.

Has she agreed that she will move out at the end of the month? If not, you'll want to talk to the police department about the legality of throwing her out. I don't know if that's legal, even if you alone own the house, with her being your legal spouse.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Has she agreed that she will move out at the end of the month? If not, you'll want to talk to the police department about the legality of throwing her out. I don't know if that's legal, even if you alone own the house, with her being your legal spouse.

In our state of residence (me and the OP) your spouse owns half of any property you own, regardless of whether the spouse's name is listed on the propery. You cannot buy, sell or mortgage property in this state without your spouse's signature. I know this from experience.

To kick her out, you might have to actually file and ask the court to ask her to leave. Might backfire, especially if she has limited assets (judge might tell YOU to vacate).

Of course, none of this is an issue if she leaves voluntarily:

Yourmother: get out I want a divorce
Yourmother's wife: OK
*door slams*

 

[MaddieMay]

In our state of residence (me and the OP) your spouse owns half of any property you own, regardless of whether the spouse's name is listed on the propery. You cannot buy, sell or mortgage property in this state without your spouse's signature. I know this from experience.

To kick her out, you might have to actually file and ask the court to ask her to leave. Might backfire, especially if she has limited assets (judge might tell YOU to vacate).

Of course, none of this is an issue if she leaves voluntarily:

Yourmother: get out I want a divorce
Yourmother's wife: OK
*door slams*

Oy vey. Here's hoping for the third option, Yourmother...

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Yes and that includes property that was acquired before the marriage. I went to sell a house that I bought four years before I got married and I had to have my husband there to sign off on the sale even though he'd never lived in nor contributed to the purchase or upkeep of said property.

 

[Yourmother]

In our state of residence (me and the OP) your spouse owns half of any property you own, regardless of whether the spouse's name is listed on the propery. You cannot buy, sell or mortgage property in this state without your spouse's signature. I know this from experience.

To kick her out, you might have to actually file and ask the court to ask her to leave. Might backfire, especially if she has limited assets (judge might tell YOU to vacate).

Haha that's too funny.

#1 Too bad a trust owns my house, in which the spouse is entitled to nothing. As the beneficiary of the trust, she can't touch ANYTHING. That is the point of a trust. All this junk about joint assets does not mean squat when it comes is trust assets.

However, she could contest the trust which would take YEARS and probably in the neighborhood of $20,000 in legal fees to get the process started. This also means time and energy, which she does not have.

#2 Actually, all I have to do is wait for her to get a job while we're married, then file, and subpoena her paycheck stubs as proof she can support herself.

In fact, I'll probably be entitled to part of her income having financed her education.

#3

 

[Yourmother]

Yes and that includes property that was acquired before the marriage. I went to sell a house that I bought four years before I got married and I had to have my husband there to sign off on the sale even though he'd never lived in nor contributed to the purchase or upkeep of said property.

Yes, this is true. Even if you own the home prior to marriage. The spouse is entitled to half of the equity growth of the home during the marriage. This is no surprize.

But if the spouse is entitled to assets they are also entitled to debt. So some of the loans and credit card debt that is in my name, she'll have to pay.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Good point about the debt. I like the way you think.

 

[MaddieMay]

Yes, this is true. Even if you own the home prior to marriage. The spouse is entitled to half of the equity growth of the home during the marriage. This is no surprize.

But if the spouse is entitled to assets they are also entitled to debt. So some of the loans and credit card debt that is in my name, she'll have to pay.

Good, it sounds like you're protected. I'll have to remember that trust thing. For when I become independently wealthy.

So, if the house belongs to a trust, does that mean you can kick her out at any time?

 

[Yourmother]

So, if the house belongs to a trust, does that mean you can kick her out at any time?

Well, it depends on how the desires of the grantor. The grantor is the person(s) who creates the terms of the trust. So he or she is able to determine the rules.

I know the word trust sounds sexy but really it is just a form of protection. You could go to a lawyer and create a trust for yourself for $1,500....it is the "funding" of the trust that makes you rich. A trust is just a set of rules for a beneficiary.

 

[Yourmother]

So, if the house belongs to a trust, does that mean you can kick her out at any time?

The language of the trust can conflict with obligations as a spouse.

In the short-run I speculate I can't, in the long-run. Yes.

 

[matyd]

Sad story, I think I would divorce her, and just hope that this situation doesn't happen to me. Good luck buddy.

 

[Iquitos]

Ha ha ha! I think he/she is alluding the the fact that Seattle is quite a liberal place and "non-traditional" relationships are tolerated well there.

It probably would've been more obvious if the poster was San Francisco.

-X

True True

 

[MaddieMay]

If things don't improve by the end of the month, we're separating. That means she'll be moving out, not me.

Well, it depends on how the desires of the grantor. The grantor is the person(s) who creates the terms of the trust. So he or she is able to determine the rules.

Gotcha. So the grantor has determined that you can tell her to move out when you separate at the end of the month?

I know the word trust sounds sexy but really it is just a form of protection. You could go to a lawyer and create a trust for yourself for $1,500....it is the "funding" of the trust that makes you rich. A trust is just a set of rules for a beneficiary.

Yep. That's why I said I was glad that your house is protected. For me, an extra $1500 would equal being independently wealthy.

 

[NewRx]

Oh, and one more thing. If you significant other's friend is indeed a member of the opposite sex, you SHOULD express anger about it. You don't need to go crazy and forbid her from talking to him or anything like that, but let her know that there will be serious consequences for anyone who touches your girl. She will respond positively to your passion and willingness to fight for her.

You were doing quite well at first, but here you erred. A man must show he is willing to let a girl go at any cost if it must come to that. Why argue with a man when the woman is just as guilty??? In fact, my philosophy is, a man in this situation must not argue with another man because it is mostly the woman's fault who undeniably was not forceful in repudiating advances (that she may have led) and even did not cut all ties with respect to her man. I will never argue with another man over a woman. There are WAY too many women out there.

P.S. A woman such as the one mentioned here is just the type who would feed on such behavior to maker her man jealous. It's ok to be jealous only when each partner doesn't really know that he/she is hurting the relationship and one brings the issue up through good communication. If my girl continues this behavior, you know what? Good bye. Take your behind somewhere else.

PERSONAL

An ex gf thought I'd be overly upset about her meeting someone else and according to her, she was 'confused' about her feelings. I was disappointed but after some talks decided that I would move on. She later dated that other guy while I moved on to an even more beautiful girl with whom I've been for about five years (though not perfect but is a successful relationship--- an it is; plans are on the way for a wedding and my ex and friend vows not to attend and not that she was invited). The ex repeatedly questions why I never call her and that it appears I was quite happy to let her go in the first place. She cries and make jealous comments for the limited time that she has when she calls me (I don't believe in being enemy with an ex for something like that). She tells me she wants to sleep with me and that she made a grave error in judgment and ask for forgiveness which she is. Today, her relationship is over and I have cut all ties with her (although I'm not her enemy). I believe in MOVING ON!!

PPS. " She keeps telling me that after she graduates she'll be normal again, but I have no proof of this." Hopefully, it won't mean that she would have used you already and can move on with her career.

Way to go Josh L.A. !!!!!!

 

[physics junkie]

Ok, I stop in on this thread from time to time to see what's going on since my initial post. I always see it on the main page and can't resist. "Phase 2" should include meeting with a divorce attorney to get some advice on how to protect yourself. My mother works in family law and having worked in her office and listened to countless stories of horrible splits I have to say it's always a good idea to talk to a lawyer before you handle anything personally. Be safe.

 

[MaddieMay]

So we're well into June now... what's the update?

 

[Pharmpills]

There is nothing wrong with your wife spending time with her female friend especially to study. She needs to do that to do well in her case, i think you just need to sit and talk gently with her about things that affect you and why. You married her for a reason so giving up and saying your tired of trying is not even close to being good enough.
I think you are going about this all wrong, do nice things for her like buy lunch, etc and talk about your problems without pointing fingers. Maybe you can even try to help her with her work. It's just amazing how quick people here are to view their spouse as someone to give up on, no wonder the divorce rate here is so high bc alot of people view each other as replaceable but that's other people's lives and i don't give a damn. U can take my advice or not.

 

[Jape]

There is nothing wrong with your wife spending time with her female friend especially to study. She needs to do that to do well in her case, i think you just need to sit and talk gently with her about things that affect you and why. You married her for a reason so giving up and saying your tired of trying is not even close to being good enough.
I think you are going about this all wrong, do nice things for her like buy lunch, etc and talk about your problems without pointing fingers. Maybe you can even try to help her with her work. It's just amazing how quick people here are to view their spouse as someone to give up on, no wonder the divorce rate here is so high bc alot of people view each other as replaceable but that's other people's lives and i don't give a damn. U can take my advice or not.

He already said he as done this. The poster has already exhausted every avenue he could. I mean there comes a point where he needs to start thinking about himself.

 

[Coastie]

Horrific.

And you're pre-med? Long road ahead, my friend. Sounds like she has revealed who she truly is, and you're up the creek.

So my wife is in a graduate program that requires all of her time.

She studies 7 days a week from early in the morning to late in the evening. The only time I get to see her she is resentful, angry, emotional, frustrated, and insensitive. When we do talk, and when she is paying attention, she hangs on my every word and searches for sarcasm so she can get get angry and get into a rage. Most often, when we talk on the phone and she is not paying attention, she admits that she was reading while we were talking calling it "multi-tasking".

She always complains about how bad she has it. I have given her everything to include paying for the car she drives, the 4 bedroom house, the meals, the bills, everything.

When I had a serious knee injury and she basically told me I was on my own and that she didn't have time or energy to concern herself with it.

I constantly take the barbs, insults, slights and return it with love, encouragement, kindness, and anything to make her feel better. Then she tries to bring up things in the past like when I was impatient or not as understanding in which I always apologize. I always take the high road.

Oh, sex is once a month. (which is horrible)

However, she spends all of waking hours outside of class at her friend's house studying. They work in a group and are incessantly together. Over Christmas break the phone would not stop ringing with her friend calling, during time together her friend would call and she'd answer.

I've tried talking with her about it in the past, getting mad and now I'm being 100% understanding and taking the path of loving, forgiving, understanding, and encouraging but now I feel like I am being a doormat. Its like she has no respect for me anymore.

Anyhow, I am concerned if this is a permanent thing? Is this going to be the new wife AFTER she graduates? When people undertake such a huge task like this do they return to being the person they were before OR do they become different forever?

She used to be sweet, quiet, confident, and now she is angry, bitter and full of rage all the time.