Stats and Dental Schools

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polotrav

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Why do dental schools place SOOOOO much emphasis on stats when dental schools aren't even ranked? Dumb question I guess with how many applicants they get a year. I have a higher than B+ average (3.4) and I'm getting thrown out this early because of it. I'm sorry but I went to a school where our science classes were taught in stadium seating. My life is being hung on the curve system and now I'm reapplying again because I thought it was just because I got the short end of the stick last time. I went and got a few new letters of rec, updated my old ones, got some more shadowing experience, and yet still nothing. This forum isn't for complaining so I'm sorry but what else am I supposed to do? I feel like it's just professional hazing. Does anyone know of schools that aren't so rigorous with their 3.5+ cut off? All of my other stats are about where they should be. I recognize, too, the hard work of others that they put into getting their 3.5+ grades and maybe I'm just lazy but I feel stupid for getting turned down two years in a row by the same school. Is there that strong of a correlation between good dentists and GPA?

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What schools are you applying to, and what are your other stats?
 
Let me start out by saying I wish I had your stats. They are amazing! Major stats envy going on right here...

I have a 3.4 overall, a 3.2 BCP, a 3.1 Science, and a 3.8 non-science.
My DAT scores I took over. The first time I got an 18 AA, a 17 science and a 17PAT. Obviously they needed to be retaken.
The second time I took them, I got a a 21 AA, a 20 PAT, and a 20 total science

I know I have one more time to retake my DATs before I have to ask special permission but I'm thinking I just need to go the route of getting a Master's to make up for my GPA.

As far as shadowing is concerned, I wasn't blessed with any kind of steady stream of shadowing, I've shadowed a total of ten different dentists and orthodontists for a total of 70 hours. I have also published in a journal from my research and have been doing research for the past 3 years that is dental related. What else is factored in to normal stats? I think that pretty much covers it.
 
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Oh and I forgot the schools. I am applying to Case, Loma Linda, UCSF, UCLA, USC, Western, NYU, BU, PENN, and Tufts. Any of those schools I would love to go to. Basically number ones all around for them all because I just want to get in somewhere!
 
Maybe you're applying to the wrong schools...

The truth is a 3.4 is borderline right now for dental school though. I had a 3.42, 3.47 science and a 21AA.

I got into ONE of my state schools about a month before school started. Plain and simply, it's tough out there, but a 3.4 should be good enough. Your DAT score and your recent coursework have a lot to do with it. FYI, I had a 4.0 for the last 34 credit hours of undergrad.

EDIT: I typed all this up before you added more info. Your BCP and science GPA is hurting you.
 
Oh and I forgot the schools. I am applying to Case, Loma Linda, UCSF, UCLA, USC, Western, NYU, BU, PENN, and Tufts. Any of those schools I would love to go to. Basically number ones all around for them all because I just want to get in somewhere!

What is your AADSAS mailing date? I know Case has already begun sending out interview invites.
 
I'm sorry to sound crass but I know. The fact is, I can't change the science GPA right now since I already have my degree. Any ideas? Thanks and I know if I had a 3.5+ science GPA things would different. I have already mentioned that in my first post.
 
When was your retake?
 
I feel your pain. It is obvious that you have the passion for the field and also have made sacrifices to achieve your goal. It is also obvious that you are a smart guy based on your DAT score.

But at the end of the day, you need to improve your GPA. I know it is hard and your feel like your bad years are holding you back and are like chain around your ankles and ... But some schools claim that they do look at the rend of the GPA in the students record and look at year by year ... ( I am not sure how true this is and if they really do it or not).

Also, you have evaluate and see why your GPA is low. Maybe you are taking too many hard courses at the same time together. Maybe you are working too much. or maybe ....

So my suggestion is first evaluate yourself, see where you go wrong when it comes to school. Maybe you need a break for a year or two. Then start taking the course but be smart about it and try to balance your semester work and your social life.

Again, your DAT scores suggests that you are a bright guy and there is only an small thing missing in your work habit that is causing a you to get a low GPA.

Best of Luck
 
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I retook this last January 2010

From the looks of it the sGPA and DATs were what held you back last year. You've got some good scores now so I think you have a good shot for the cycle now.
 
Maybe you're applying to the wrong schools...

The truth is a 3.4 is borderline right now for dental school though. I had a 3.42, 3.47 science and a 21AA.

I got into ONE of my state schools about a month before school started. Plain and simply, it's tough out there, but a 3.4 should be good enough. Your DAT score and your recent coursework have a lot to do with it. FYI, I had a 4.0 for the last 34 credit hours of undergrad.

EDIT: I typed all this up before you added more info. Your BCP and science GPA is hurting you.

are you ****ing kidding me!? you have an awesome dat and a average gpa for enrollees and you only got into 1 school!?!?


How many schools did you apply to?
How many interviews did you get?
what kind of EC's did you have?
Did you apply late?


sorry for the bombardment of questions but i have stats similar to yours and i didnt think it was gonna be THAT difficult....
 
Don't worry too much about it Dent001. Just come up with a plan for what you can do if it doesn't work out. I probably should have held back in posting until I had thought things through.

Last cycle I applied to 12 schools, got one interview and it was at one my dream schools which was nice. I got to see what it was like. Even though I got rejected I still have a lot of respect for the school.

I applied to 10 this year. Most of them the same but I switched out a couple such as I didn't apply to Harvard this year after I found out they only admit 20 students. I heard it was easier to get into even though it is Harvard.

I applied early both times.

The EC's I have are that I was president of a club on campus with about twenty people where we met twice a week, I lived in Mexico for two years and am bilingual now since I spoke no English during that time, I have three years worth of Research that includes a publication and several presentations of other work, and as soon as I got back from my two years in Mexico I joined a club that makes regular monthly trips to mexico to help out at a medical/dental clinic run by students called Flying Sams. It was awesome and I totally dug it.

So yeah! I'm becoming more convinced that with the 4.0 GPA you are guaranteed an interview and with anything below, it's kind of a grab bag. At my one interview last year my interviewer shook his had as we were walking and said to me "you really can't tell anything from interviews." It's kind of sad but it's looking to me like getting in without a 4.0 is magic haha. I love it though and it'll make me stronger. When I do actually get in I'll be determined to get 4.0s so that I can pass my boards and hopefully go on to specialize. We'll see how it goes. It's not uncommon for people to apply twice and sometimes three or four times. Just hang in there. We can all sort of encourage each other.
 
It's like what do the applicants do who have returned to school with a bad past and didn't always konw they wanted to be dentists. years of solid performance to just be discredited by old, irrelevent, non science related course work. What can we do if we have below a 3.5 to stand out? Looks like a good dat doesnt even help.

I've asked the question why should a applicant with a lower gpa be admitted before one with a higher gpa? well i've had above a 3.8 for 2+ years taking 3-4 science courses each term.
At the end of the day it seems that it still doesnt stand out from those who have done well from the start... making an easy 3.5 taking a balanced load.
 
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Why do dental schools place SOOOOO much emphasis on stats when dental schools aren't even ranked? Dumb question I guess with how many applicants they get a year. I have a higher than B+ average (3.4) and I'm getting thrown out this early because of it. I'm sorry but I went to a school where our science classes were taught in stadium seating. My life is being hung on the curve system and now I'm reapplying again because I thought it was just because I got the short end of the stick last time. I went and got a few new letters of rec, updated my old ones, got some more shadowing experience, and yet still nothing. This forum isn't for complaining so I'm sorry but what else am I supposed to do? I feel like it's just professional hazing. Does anyone know of schools that aren't so rigorous with their 3.5+ cut off? All of my other stats are about where they should be. I recognize, too, the hard work of others that they put into getting their 3.5+ grades and maybe I'm just lazy but I feel stupid for getting turned down two years in a row by the same school. Is there that strong of a correlation between good dentists and GPA?

Which schools have a 3.5 cut off?
 
All I can say is have faith. I have a 3.3 overall gpa and 2.8 science gpa and I have received interviews. Most schools do look at the total package including letters of rec, ecs, and personal statement.
 
are you ****ing kidding me!? you have an awesome dat and a average gpa for enrollees and you only got into 1 school!?!?


How many schools did you apply to?
How many interviews did you get?
what kind of EC's did you have?
Did you apply late?


sorry for the bombardment of questions but i have stats similar to yours and i didnt think it was gonna be THAT difficult....

My situation is somewhat different from that of most people on here in that I am a TX resident and I actually only applied to the 3 TX schools. In retrospect I should have applied OOS as well.

I interviewed at 2 of the 3 schools.

I had my app in pretty early but I didn't take the DAT until early August so that didn't get to the schools until about mid August. So that was a little bit of a factor as well.

In short, I wouldn't read TOO much into my situation but it is somewhat indicative of where the dental school admissions process is going. TX dental schools are pretty tough, I know a number of undergrad classmates that didn't get into any TX schools but did get into OOS private schools.
 
It's like what do the applicants do who have returned to school with a bad past and didn't always konw they wanted to be dentists. years of solid performance to just be discredited by old, irrelevent, non science related course work. What can we do if we have below a 3.5 to stand out? Looks like a good dat doesnt even help.

I've asked the question why should a applicant with a lower gpa be admitted before one with a higher gpa? well i've had above a 3.8 for 2+ years taking 3-4 science courses each term.
At the end of the day it seems that it still doesnt stand out from those who have done well from the start... making an easy 3.5 taking a balanced load.

It's hard but schools DO take notice of a stellar DAT and a consistent upward trend.
 
yeah, i definitely feel how it is like.

it seems like my past is like chains on my ankle, and just would not let me go anywhere. I am having serious doubts every day whether or not a high DAT can change anything.

Just keep on hoping, every single day :oops:
 
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Cangenome, I'm actully aiming for your dat score... I really hope you get in b/c of your great scores and good grades in masters program. GL. I'll be watching your progress.
 
So I just wanted to complete my thought of stats and dental schools but does anyone know why dental schools aren't ranked? I'm just curious what people's thoughts are or if there really is a reason since this is the season of stats :laugh:
 
Of which state are you a resident?

Getting into a state school is much, much easier than as a non-resident or even at a private school.

If you don't have one (wyoming, alaska, etc) sometimes other schools like U of W will accept a certain number from a neighboring state, like the WICHE program.

I would also apply to some of the newer private dental schools, like USN or Midwestern-Ill. Starting schools are more apt to take a person with a less-than-perfect GPA
 
So I just wanted to complete my thought of stats and dental schools but does anyone know why dental schools aren't ranked? I'm just curious what people's thoughts are or if there really is a reason since this is the season of stats :laugh:

Simply put, every school has a different set of strengths.
 
Well I'm from California. Unfortunately my state schools are probably among the most competitive that are around. I've done my homework but I was just curious if there was any sort of reasoning behind not ranking dental schools. Med schools are ranked and so are masters programs. It makes sense to me that there should be some sort of ranking that occurs but there's not.
 
Well I'm from California. Unfortunately my state schools are probably among the most competitive that are around. I've done my homework but I was just curious if there was any sort of reasoning behind not ranking dental schools. Med schools are ranked and so are masters programs. It makes sense to me that there should be some sort of ranking that occurs but there's not.

From the stickied FAQ thread:

Why can't I find a list of dental school ranks?
Why are dental schools not ranked?

From http://www.tambcd.edu/DentalCE/askdo..._rankings.html
There have only been two individuals or organizations that have ranked dental schools; US News and World Report_ in 1993 and The Gourman Report on a periodic basis. Both organizations have multple flaws in the methodology of ranking the schools.

The major problem is that the rankings were based on the perception of Deans, administrators, faculty and others_ about the relative quality of the schools and not on any objective criteria that compared "apples to apples". The dental schools complained bitterly to US News and as a result US News has discontinued ranking US dental schools. Parenthetically, the dental schools were given wide acclaim by our colleagues in higher education as being the only education enterprise that has stood up to US News. As you may know, rankings of all colleges and universities are under intense criticism by our colleagues in the higher education community.

Here is the official statement from the ADA on rankings. It make a lot of sense.

Dental school applicants should be aware that there are proprietary publications available that purport to rank dental schools according to the quality of their programs. The American Dental Education Association and the American Dental Association advise applicants to view these rankings with caution. The bases for the rankings are questionable, and even those individuals most knowledgeable about dental education would admit to the difficulty of establishing criteria for, and achieving consensus on, such rankings.

All U.S. dental schools are accredited by the Commission on Dental Accreditation, and all have their relative strengths. A dental school ideally suited to one applicant might not be appropriate for another. The American Dental Education Association and the American Dental Association recommend that applicants investigate on their own the relative merits of the dental schools they might wish to attend.
 
I'm glad dental schools aren't ranked. It unnecessarily influences people. Somebody from Harvard who has a 2.5 GPA but still graduates will always be more admired than a 4.0 student from a miscellaneous state school because they "went to Harvard", which is almost always ranked #1 for undergraduate degrees. From what I've heard, every dental school is great in terms of its ability to train you to become a dentist. I would rather US News and World Report not devalue whatever dental school I got to by ranking it lower than others.
 
All I can say is have faith. I have a 3.3 overall gpa and 2.8 science gpa and I have received interviews. Most schools do look at the total package including letters of rec, ecs, and personal statement.

out of curiosity did you apply as a "disadvantaged" applicant? i'm trying to search for posts with disadvantaged applicants and I can't hence the asking around. :)
 
I guess after thinking about it I am glad that they don't rank schools. I like the idea of schools being a better match for applicants. I know I probably would not fit in at Loma Linda because I have no connection to being SDA nor do I have a 4.0 but I'll fit in where I get in which is comforting. I'll love it no matter where I get in. It will happen but I just need to be patient and go where I am accepted. It appears that for the most part you get an education that is pretty streamline across the board. In California we have a lot of competition between dental schools since we have six. Maybe that's what's influencing my thought process. UCLA and USC, Pacific and UCSF, they're constantly trying to one up each other haha. It's all in good fun though. Lots of collaboration goes on between schools.
 
Actually for the disadvantaged question...I did not apply as disadvantaged but it crossed my mind. When I was little I was but now my family is more upper middle class so I would have felt guilty applying for it when someone else really deserved the attention. UCLA's was especially tempting since it had all of those questions. I practically raised my little brothers while my dad was working three jobs and going to school. We lived off of welfare for a couple of months there. It got a little intense but all I mentioned was that I helped raise my little brothers, changing diapers, feeding them, taking them places, taking care of the house, etc. Plus, I figured out how to pay for things by applying for grants and scholarships so I think I can make it without applying for the disadvantaged status.
 
I'm taking a different turn with this thread but on average how many letters of rec did you guys send out? I managed to pack in 5 with my letter of rec service. The year before I had 6 because that was the max we could cram in there. I wanted to cover all of my bases so I had 1 letter from my Principal Investigator, 1 from my O-chem professor, 1 from an upper-div bio professor, 1 from my Spanish Department Head, and then one from an orthodontist I shadowed. All of my professors I had excellent relationships with.
 
Why do dental schools place SOOOOO much emphasis on stats when dental schools aren't even ranked? Dumb question I guess with how many applicants they get a year. I have a higher than B+ average (3.4) and I'm getting thrown out this early because of it. I'm sorry but I went to a school where our science classes were taught in stadium seating. My life is being hung on the curve system and now I'm reapplying again because I thought it was just because I got the short end of the stick last time. I went and got a few new letters of rec, updated my old ones, got some more shadowing experience, and yet still nothing. This forum isn't for complaining so I'm sorry but what else am I supposed to do? I feel like it's just professional hazing. Does anyone know of schools that aren't so rigorous with their 3.5+ cut off? All of my other stats are about where they should be. I recognize, too, the hard work of others that they put into getting their 3.5+ grades and maybe I'm just lazy but I feel stupid for getting turned down two years in a row by the same school. Is there that strong of a correlation between good dentists and GPA?

Hello there! When I read that you were being taught in "stadium seating," I immediately thought of the UC system ... not that I have anything against since I go to one myself. lol I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I think you need to raise your bio gpa. Since you mentioned that you already have your degree, is it possible to take some classes at a community college? Have you considered a post-bacc program? Also, I've heard that taking your DAT a third time looks bad. Your 2nd DAT school is excellent, and I would stick to that. You seem like a well-rounded student, but have you considered that maybe it was something with your personal statement or maybe they are looking for consistency in your dental shadowing experience. I hope this helps. =) I wish you the best, and good luck.
 
Yay to the UC system with its 65% fail rate in those stadium seats. So many cute girls in one class. YAY!
 
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