Step 1: now pass/fail!

[Saturday’s Child]

Not sure if this has been reported here or not, but it looks like USMLE has decided to make Step 1 P/F beginning in 2022. Rejoice!

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[deleted987519]

Or cry depending on where you are headed to school

 

[FutureSurgical]

Woahhhh

 

[Morc]

Premeds be prepping for step 2 before M1 starts

 

[deleted972488]

 

[Shotapp]

So when this comes into effect, the school you'll attend will matter much more?

 

[FutureSurgical]

Everyone seems like they're in favor of this decision in the MD subforums. Though I'm pretty sure Step 2 CK will just take on the importance factor of where Step 1 currently is. Or maybe, if your school has a GPA system, grades will start to have a bigger impact on your resume

 

[Icebird]

LORs, networking, research, and rotation grades just upped in importance; gotta do what I gotta do to keep my attending SATISFIED

Forget your sunscreen, pack some kneepads boys and girls!!

 

[kingdomheart]

LORs, networking, research, and rotation grades just upped in importance; gotta do what I gotta do to keep my attending SATISFIED

Forget your sunscreen, pack some kneepads boys and girls!!

You're right, forget sunscreen, we're gonna need another kind of lotion now

 

[deleted947265]

It's good. I think it will have some positive effect on burnout for now. I could see residency selection shifting to CK, but it will take a few years for another application meta to develop. I don't know why they didn't make all of the boards pass/fail while they were at it, the point of the board examinations is to guarantee a minimum level of knowledge/competence.

I don't think it will address application fever, that will require work on the AAMC's part. That would also involve program directors admitting that going through 5,000 applications to fill 10 spots isn't super fun.

 

[bceagle411]

Everyone seems like they're in favor of this decision in the MD subforums. Though I'm pretty sure Step 2 CK will just take on the importance factor of where Step 1 currently is. Or maybe, if your school has a GPA system, grades will start to have a bigger impact on your resume

which forums are you looking at? IMGs and low tier MD school people are gonna be hurt badly

 

[ChymeofPassion]

IMGs, Low tier MD, and DO = Much harder to match elite specialties/locations.

 

[Robin-jay]

What a joke. More elitist crap will come from this, and less merit to those who work hard.

 

[DevinBookerMD]

IMGs, Low tier MD, and DO = Much harder to much elite specialties/locations.

Can anyone tell me if this should change the school I pick? Deciding between UCI, BU, Einstein, and stony brook. On the waitlist for Keck. Is there a difference in prestige at any of these? I was going to pick UCI before this news fwiw.

 

[FutureSurgical]

which forums are you looking at? IMGs and low tier MD school people are gonna be hurt badly

The MD student subforum

 

[ChymeofPassion]

Can anyone tell me if this should change the school I pick? Deciding between UCI, BU, Einstein, and stony brook. On the waitlist for Keck. Is there a difference in prestige at any of these? I was going to pick UCI before this news fwiw.

In the same boat as you. Deciding between my state school (which is Top 50, fwiw) and higher ranked schools, was gonna be an easy tuition based decision but now I don't know.

 

[SeaHusky]

How much should I budget "Coffee and favors for PDs during aways" into my student loans?

 

[Type2Fiber]

Don't go to a low-tier school if you have an option. Definitely don't go to a school without a home department in the specialty you want. Good luck

 

[tikihut]

Don't go to a low-tier school if you have an option. Definitely don't go to a school without a home department in the specialty you want. Good luck

When you say "low-tier" what do you mean specifically? Do you think going to a T50 school despite having a T20 acceptance is a bad idea? Or it's not much of a significant difference?

 

[DevinBookerMD]

When you say "low-tier" what do you mean specifically? Do you think going to a T50 school despite having a T20 acceptance is a bad idea? Or it's not much of a significant difference?

exactly. is there a difference between T50 and T30 now?

 

[PreMedStudent55555]

How are my fellow incoming MD students feeling about this? What I don't like is how for us, we're going to be the "guinea pigs" in the sense that we don't really know what is important.

Also, a little scared because now that research, LOR's, clerkship grades, and STEP 2 are so important, it seems that we have to work so much harder during our 3rd and 4th years. I used to feel that the work was pretty evenly distributed throughout the 4 years where you worked hard during 1st and 2nd years to make sure your STEP 1 score was good and that would play a huge role in youyr applications and then you worked hard during 3rd and 4th on your application, LOR's, and clerkships.

Now it feels like, everything comes down to 3rd and 4th year where you need to kill clerkships, get great LOR's, and do well on STEP 2. Compared to before where the first two years you could focus on the major standardized exam (STEP 1) and then spend the later 2 years worrying about clerkships and LOR's.

Also, is school prestige really that important now? I've been admitted to a T15 so I guess I definitely need to attend that school now lol (Was gonna attend anyways due to financial aid)

I will note that I like that STEP 1 is P/F because now we can take some more time to relax during my first two years.

 

[rx001]

Things are going to change drastically they way acceptees picking their schools. Usually if you look at out of state acceptances they are 2 times of instate acceptances. If the schools have given out more acceptances based on that, they could get into trouble for giving away too many acceptances.

Residency programs also have a bigger challenge to get right people for their programs. LORs cannot be quantified so difficult to just go with them as a criteria. I would say there should some way of grading mechanism which will differentiate good, better and the best. I would say pick the school which has grading mechanism if you are confident of killing the grades.

 

[m1redsox]

IMGs, Low tier MD, and DO = Much harder to match elite specialties/locations.

With this in mind, does anyone think Wake Forest is low-tier? Do you think it will be harder to match something like Ophtho? Or is it more of a mid-tier school that may be less affected?

 

[ChymeofPassion]

With this in mind, does anyone think Wake Forest is low-tier? Do you think it will be harder to match something like Ophtho? Or is it more of a mid-tier school that may be less affected?

I think rank 49 places it firmly into Mid-Tier. Idk though.

 

[bceagle411]

The MD student subforum

yea youre not reading the right thread. This isnt a good change.

 

[FutureSurgical]

yea youre not reading the right thread. This isnt a good change.

Read all the updates from when I first read it lol. When I first read that, members seemed to like it. But now? It's as if the apocalypse has descended upon us

 

[FISTMCLARGEHUGE]

If you do your M3/M4 rotations with other students and eat with/near them, I'd recommend stocking up on a few of these WG 06 Food Poison Detection Kit - Westminster International Ltd . Especially if you're ranked at all.

 

[WaterFlow]

Wow.
Curious to see if Med schools will send out any communication to their accepted appicants about this.
Also curious to see if/when Med schools will change their curriculum grading protocols (from P/F--> Letter grades?).
Hopefully, they can implement the curriculum grading change promptly to accommodate for the USMLE P/F start date.

 

[Pstar9]

Woo! Another step in the right direction to equalize MDs and DOs!

That was sarcasm, please don't come for me

 

[82Scout]

Y'all always think the sky is falling.

 

[kingdomheart]

It'd be cool if we kept this thread going and refer back to this thread 2 years from now. Be our own guinea pigs

 

[deleted996731]

Wow.
Curious to see if Med schools will send out any communication to their accepted appicants about this.
Also curious to see if/when Med schools will change their curriculum grading protocols (from P/F--> Letter grades?).
Hopefully, they can implement the curriculum grading change promptly to accommodate for the USMLE P/F start date.

Um hell no. I would rather take P/F for both step and pre clinical.

 

[tri99]

As an admitted DO with one pending MD decision this just made the anticipation 10x worse

 

[deleted927529]

Data point: I've spoken to a few IM faculty members who tell me this is good for students, bad for programs and that they wish this had been the case for them as students.

 

[WaterFlow]

Um hell no. I would rather take P/F for both step and pre clinical.

Having both pre clinical and step P/F puts mid and low tier med students at a huge disadvantage. However, the disadvantage would be less if residency programs consider step 2 as the “replacacement” of step 1 in level of importance/ priority.

 

[TheDataKing]

I think this will impact DOs, IMGs, and FMGs more than any MD student. I've spoken to some residents and attendings who said the emphasis will be placed on step 2 CK now likely, along with clinical grades, research, and LORs. It seems like networking is going to be a big part of this and it will benefit those who are at the T20s (nepotism coming into play here). Students at "lower tier" schools who want to match into competitive specialties may have to take research years now but it was already trending that way. That said, this is all speculation - there will be some new metric and we will all be okay.

 

[souravdada]

So... As an incoming M1 should the amount of dedicated time or preclinical years matter?

 

[Roughcollie44]

Awful news. more subjectivity, less objectivity. Way to disadvantage great students at lower tiered schools and reward bad students at higher tiered schools. Step 1 was equal opportunity. Wouldn't be surprised if a new exam is implemented on top of P/F Step for competitive specialties.

 

[BillyOsler]

I feel like there might be more cons than pros for the class of 2024.

Pros

• Lower student stress during preclinicals
• Dedicated studying time can be used for educational experiences or vacation
• Less time and money spent on test prep
• Less burnout and reliance upon a single metric to determine residency application success
• More time for research, extracurriculars, and social life
• (optimistically) could lead to reform in residency selection process

Cons

• Residency directors will have to completely rehaul their evaluation system in two years.
• Class of 2024 will be guinea pigs in residency applications with these changes.
• Step 2 CK will become the new Step 1 most likely unless there are more reforms. If this occurs, there will be an insane amount of uncertainty of what specialty you choose right before applications are due.
• Medical schools will have to react to this change and alter preclinical schedules and some may revert back to letter grades.
• Foreign medical graduates and DOs will be negatively impacted
• Research, AOA, and school reputation will matter more than they did before.
• More pressure to perform during clinical rotations despite subjective grading system.
• Nepotism will be more important
• So many unknowns
  • MD/PhD students in limbo with scores
  • People with lower step 1 scores can take “research years” to compete with pass/fail applicant pool
  • will scores be retroactively blinded?
  • will scores be relevant to future fellowship applications?

 

[premed20172017]

So... As an incoming M1 should the amount of dedicated time or preclinical years matter?

Probably not.

 

[Robin-jay]

Awful news. more subjectivity, less objectivity. Way to disadvantage great students at lower tiered schools and reward bad students at higher tiered schools. Step 1 was equal opportunity. Wouldn't be surprised if a new exam is implemented on top of P/F Step for competitive specialties.

Medical schools are heading into the direction of being jokes in general.

Most have only pass/fail classes...joke
Boards only pass/fail.........................joke

We should start handing out prizes for just participating.

 

[deleted987519]

Medical schools are heading into the direction of being jokes in general.

Most have only pass/fail classes...joke
Boards only pass/fail.........................joke

We should start handing out prizes for just participating.

ok boomer (had to)

 

[ObjectiveBoba]

I'm curious if making Step 1 P/F will have upstream effects on medical school admissions. The main argument for placing such an emphasis on the MCAT was its correlation with Step 1 so it's possible that medical schools may de-emphasize the MCAT as well.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Class of 2024 will be guinea pigs in residency applications with these changes.

Those of us in the class of 2023 who take step in 3rd year will actually be the Guinea pigs.

 

[popcorn1096]

So basically what you’re saying is that we should all start working on our residency applications right now? Haha amaaaazing

 

[deleted947265]

So basically what you’re saying is that we should all start working on our residency applications right now? Haha amaaaazing

I already got my ERAS done what r u casul?

 

[TheDataKing]

• will scores be retroactively blinded?
• will scores be relevant to future fellowship applications?

They've said scores will not be retroactively blinded.

EDIT: I don't want to misguide anyone. I misread something and thought it said this. This is yet another unknown

 

[DevinBookerMD]

They've said scores will not be retroactively blinded.

where did they say that?

 

[Roughcollie44]

I'm curious if making Step 1 P/F will have upstream effects on medical school admissions. The main argument for placing such an emphasis on the MCAT was its correlation with Step 1 so it's possible that medical schools may de-emphasize the MCAT as well.

if anything this just shifts the pressure onto pre-med students who will be pressured to get even higher MCAT, grades, etc. to get into T20 schools.

 

[TheDataKing]

where did they say that?

oops, I misread. That is still another unknown - add it to the bag of things we don't know and are speculating about