Step 1 P/F: Decision

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Commrade said:
So the MCAT, which plays a huge role in deciding whether you go to an MD or DO school and what the prestige of that school will be, is now effectively more important than STEP 1 for your career...?
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Basically.
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Type2Fiber said:
My initial reaction was that this change is not a good thing, but for M2s, the bolded might actually work out for some of us. Want to do ortho with a poor step score? Take a year off, do research and network, then apply with a P on the transcript. Not a bad option

But overall, this thing is a complete dumpster fire
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But they're not going to retroactively change scores to pass/fail... right? That would only be helpful if the low Step 1 score is converted to a P after the fact.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Lmao exactly. If anyone thinks anything is going to change at all then they have another thing coming. “Step 1 mania” will now become “Step 2 mania”. Oh and add on the stress of ever more important clinical grades, which are extremely subjective, and the fact that Step 2 is taken right before residency apps and you have the recipe for a complete disaster lol.


Probably nothing at all honestly.

I have made many statements about this and my opinion has not changed. This only benefits the top schools and completely shafts all DO and low tier MD students.

Good luck.
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This is a great point... Gunning for ortho all through third year, pass step 1 and then all of the sudden get a 220 on Step 2 while on your AI bc it is your first pressure exam. Now you are F'd
 
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Shotapp said:
How is this going to affect DO students?
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RIP.
Commrade said:
So the MCAT, which plays a huge role in deciding whether you go to an MD or DO school and what the prestige of that school will be, is now effectively more important than STEP 1 for your career...?
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Yep. And what undergrad you went to, which is often a result of how much money you have, oh and don’t forget about all the BS hoops that you have to jump through to have a competitive app for elite MD schools. All of that nonsense has instantly become more important than your medical knowledge regarding residency placement.
 
The Step 1 madness got completely out of control in the past year or two in my opinion. I think this may be an overreaction though as emphasis will shift completely to Step 2 which presents very similar concerns. But at the same time the obsession with Step 1 is really a very recent phenomenon in the grand scheme of things - residency programs were successfully selecting people for a long time before all of this and I’m sure they can do it again. What does need to be addressed urgently is the insane inflation of application numbers where some people are expected to apply to 80-100 programs to have a fighting chance. I’m hoping that at least that will improve somewhat as it seems that it’s related in part to a feedback loop caused by the obsession over Step 1.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
RIP.


Yep. And what undergrad you went to, which is often a result of how much money you have, oh and don’t forget about all the BS hoops that you have to jump through to have a competitive app for elite MD schools. All of that nonsense has instantly become more important than your medical knowledge regarding residency placement.
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Rich parents = Ortho Match
 
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The way this reads, class of 2023 is going to be in a weird purgatory where we will get to see our scores but they will be reported to residencies as P/F.

The alternative is that we would have a huge advantage over future classes in matches beyond 2023, so I'm pretty confident our scores are getting retroactively hidden.
 
Lawper said:
@Neuronix @Fencer how does this change affect MSTP?
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I suspect this will be good for MSTPs. Step 1 could almost only hurt MD/PhDs from the standpoint that MD/PhDs are often from top schools and trying to match into top residencies to continue doing research typically only available at top tier programs. These programs often expected MD/PhDs to have above average step 1 scores, which at times was a problem if the step 1 score was below average for the specialty. This could create a situation where low step 1 got you screened out of top, research heavy places, while the lower tier places that would be ok with a lower step 1 score felt they had no significant research to offer the MD/PhD.
 
dohopeful13 said:
The way this reads, class of 2023 is going to be in a weird purgatory where we will get to see our scores but they will be reported to residencies as P/F.

The alternative is that we would have a huge advantage over future classes in matches beyond 2023, so I'm pretty confident our scores are getting retroactively hidden.
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Yea but only if you are class of 2023 trying to match beyond 2023? If you match in 2023, then everyone else should still have step 1 scores right?
 
dohopeful13 said:
The way this reads, class of 2023 is going to be in a weird purgatory where we will get to see our scores but they will be reported to residencies as P/F.

The alternative is that we would have a huge advantage over future classes in matches beyond 2023, so I'm pretty confident our scores are getting retroactively hidden.
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I believe the class of 2023's scores will still be reported.
 
dohopeful13 said:
The way this reads, class of 2023 is going to be in a weird purgatory where we will get to see our scores but they will be reported to residencies as P/F.

The alternative is that we would have a huge advantage over future classes in matches beyond 2023, so I'm pretty confident our scores are getting retroactively hidden.
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I don't think they will alter the score for Class of 2023 exam takers. I think this will be the last class to receive a reported score. Residency programs might try new evaluation and interview tactics to suss out how to handle this policy change.
 
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subdermallight said:
Yea but only if you are class of 2023 trying to match beyond 2023? If you match in 2023, then everyone else should still have step 1 scores right?
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I'm not sure. If the reporting changes in January 2022 like it said, our scores would be P/F by the time we apply to residency.

I really hope I'm wrong on that.
 
Chelsea FC said:
Kinda weird they just drop this without answering all these questions. And they expect us to trust they are making the right decision
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Transparency has never been their strong suit.

They really need to clarify for MS1's though. It completely changes how I'm approaching my strategy depending on the answer.
 
I'm and M1 and I think this sucks for us. Even though we are the last to get a numerical score we probably still have to do well on step 2 ck now since the focus will begin to shift by the time we take step 2 ck. So basically not only do we have to study our asses off for step 1, we now also have to study our asses off for step 2. Way to go everyone who advocated for this, you just made our already difficult lives somehow even harder!
 
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dohopeful13 said:
I'm not sure. If the reporting changes in January 2022 like it said, our scores would be P/F by the time we apply to residency.

I really hope I'm wrong on that.
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They specifically said that numerical Step 1 scores would not be given after Jan 1st 2022, it should not mean that any residency apps after 2022 will block out your numerical score if taken before 2022. If you take Step before then, you are getting a numerical score and it most likely is going to be reported when you try to match.
 
Chelsea FC said:
Kinda weird they just drop this without answering all these questions. And they expect us to trust they are making the right decision
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Remember you're talking about the same group of people that made CS mandatory for all students, instead of FMGs like it was intended, as recently as 2003. The same group that charges $1200 for a test, oh which by the way is only offered at 5 sites in the entire country when 25k+ med students have to take it in any given year. And then when they received complaints that it was an unnecessary exam because the pass rate was 98%+ the pass rate magically dropped to 94%. They do stuff like this simply because they can, and they know that med students literally have no recourse or ability to say no.
 
subdermallight said:
They specifically said that numerical Step 1 scores would not be given after Jan 1st 2022, it should not mean that any residency apps after 2022 will block out your numerical score if taken before 2022. If you take Step before then, you are getting a numerical score and it most likely is going to be reported when you try to match.
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This is interesting. My school ends preclinical years in December. So the class that would be entering dedicated in January 2022 could theoretically take step 1 early before the changes go into place so they can have a score to report during match.
 
Chad12 said:
I'm and M1 and I think this sucks for us. Even though we are the last to get a numerical score we probably still have to do well on step 2 ck now since the focus will begin to shift by the time we take step 2 ck. So basically not only do we have to study our asses off for step 1, we now also have to study our asses off for step 2. Way to go everyone who advocated for this, you just made our already difficult lives somehow even harder!
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We'll still be compared to people who have Step 1 scores, so it shouldn't change all that much. Unless you don't match 2023, then your Step 2 will be more important probably.. so yes it does mean we need to study more for Step 2 but only as a backup if we need to delay our matching to the next cycle
 
Curious to hear if people think any changes will be happening for class of 2021? Think there will be any increased emphasis on step 2 as PDs try to prepare for the transition?
 
redsox93 said:
This is interesting. My school ends preclinical years in December. So the class that would be entering dedicated in January 2022 could theoretically take step 1 early before the changes go into place so they can have a score to report during match.
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Not to mention, it says "no earlier than Jan. 2022." Could be months after that for all we know
 
Type2Fiber said:
My initial reaction was that this change is not a good thing, but for M2s, the bolded might actually work out for some of us. Want to do ortho with a poor step score? Take a year off, do research and network, then apply with a P on the transcript. Not a bad option

But overall, this thing is a complete dumpster fire
Click to expand...

Yeah, I am 100% going to keep my numerical step score if I end up doing a research year(s). Can't lose out on all the hard work I'm been putting in so far. Going to screenshot my score and email it to myself like 10 times.
 
What a sh**show. Feel bad for all the M1s or future M1s right now.
 
Honest but ignorant question...

Would this make the soap process a lot messier??

I am thinking that now a lot more people would see the big "Pass" on their reports, and then gun for big competitive residencies.
At least step 1 gave us an idea of what could be achieved. But imagine a student that receives little support understanding the process, passes step1, gets a not so competitive CK, has average clinical grades, no research, no connections, and yet tries to apply to derm or nsurg?

Now imagine hundreds of people in this scenario... that leads me to think Soaping will get uglier
 
I am an incoming M1 that was just gonna go to my state school because I was told it didn't matter and also it would save money than going out of state. I don't have any more interviews and I wasn't really trying to go for a top tier spot and I honestly don't know the tier of my medical school. I was hoping to do ortho. Am I screwed?
 
Step 1 is dead, long live Step 1 2ck!


This is merely a bandaid to the problem.Filters will just be placed on CK. Now PDs and applicants will have to rely on a test that is administered later in medical school , and people will have to change plans very near to the end because their step 2 ck didnt work out.

I dont think this will change anything around the decline of preclinical education and lack of participation in class. People will now just be streaming bnb step 2 ck edition.

On a separate note
Someone should do a study on the rate of increase in publishing case reports and other low quality research papers after the conversion to P/F.
 
ReturnToMed said:
I am an incoming M1 that was just gonna go to my state school because I was told it didn't matter and also it would save money than going out of state. I don't have any more interviews and I wasn't really trying to go for a top tier spot and I honestly don't know the tier of my medical school. Am I screwed?
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you'll be a doctor. Yeah it would've been better to go to a top tier school given this information.
 
without step1 scores, how will we be evaluated besides step2? Does this mean I have to do more damn volunteering gigs? Or do they just care about research?
 
Lawper said:
I wonder what happens if Step 2 CK also goes pass/fail
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Screen on t20.
Screen AOA
Screen Third Year Grades
Screen NBME Shelves
Create speciatly specific tests that you can screen on
Screen on MCAT.


This is a problem of supply and demand, as long as there are 400 applications for every derm position, it is going to hard for PDs to figure out who to interview without doing some quality control on the front end with a screen.

This will really hurt DO students and lower tier MD students, who dont have home programs or connections to big names in research or school pedigree.
 
Anyone think this will change the match for competitive residencies in the next couple of years (still using numerical step 1)?

aka start caring about step 2CK more, etc?
 
LimeCloud said:
@ReturnToMed Nah u just gonna be crackin open that First Aid for Step 2 from Day 1 of med school now.
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I have been chilling for a few months working and volunteering here and there. I got bored so I started doing anki deck's of lolnotacop and zanki pharm once in a while. I guess my studying is now a waste.....
 
Frogger27 said:
Anyone think this will change the match for competitive residencies in the next couple of years (still using numerical step 1)?

aka start caring about step 2k more, etc?
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i sincerely doubt it. The first thing most competitive specialty PDs I have met with have asked is what is your step 1.
 
Wil this effect the class of 2022 at all? Assuming we’re taking step1 this summer and trying to start residency July 2022?
 
libertyyne said:
Step 1 is dead, long live Step 1 2ck!


This is merely a bandaid to the problem.Filters will just be placed on CK. Now PDs and applicants will have to rely on a test that is administered later in medical school , and people will have to change plans very near to the end because their step 2 ck didnt work out.

I dont think this will change anything around the decline of preclinical education and lack of participation in class. People will now just be streaming bnb step 2 ck edition.

On a separate note
Someone should do a study on the rate of increase in publishing case reports and other low quality research papers after the conversion to P/F.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Step 2 will now become the new step 1 and the weight of everything else will go up. It's a net negative for 90% of students because they now have less time to make sure that they have a real chance for the specialty/program they want.
 
I highly doubt they're going to retroactively change numerical scores to P/F, especially in 2022. This would be the effective equivalent of changing Step 1 to P/F now, which they purposely didn't do. If they were to retroactively change score reports I think it would be no earlier than 2024 because that's when someone following the traditional timeline should have taken the P/F exam.
 
Professional Student said:
I highly doubt they're going to retroactively change numerical scores to P/F, especially in 2022. This would be the effective equivalent of changing Step 1 to P/F now, which they purposely didn't do. If they were to retroactively change score reports I think it would be no earlier than 2024 because that's when someone following the traditional timeline should have taken the P/F exam.
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The wording is that after January of 2022 Step 1 scores will be reported as P/F. For anyone in class of 2023, if I were you, I would assume this means that anyone applying to residency in 2022 will only have a score reported as a P until explicitly stated otherwise.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
The wording is that after January of 2022 Step 1 scores will be reported as P/F. For anyone in class of 2023, if I were you, I would assume this means that anyone applying to residency in 2022 will only have a score reported as a P until explicitly stated otherwise.
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This is 100% how I'm interpreting until they say otherwise.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
The wording is that after January of 2022 Step 1 scores will be reported as P/F. For anyone in class of 2023, if I were you, I would assume this means that anyone applying to residency in 2022 will only have a score reported as a P until explicitly stated otherwise.
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Actually the wording is 2022 at the earliest. Meaning this could go down in 2030. Anything else is speculation until “they give us more info later in the year”
 
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