Step 1 P/F: Decision

Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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BoneWizard said:
So what I'm hearing is after 2022, everyone is just going to shotgun their app to 200 programs.
🙁
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At that point why not just make it a lottery? Have M4s list all the programs they would be willing to go to, they randomly get invited to interviews at some arbitrary number of places they list (lets say 10), they can then swap or trade interview invites among each other or keep the 10 random interview invites they got. Students and programs rank each other after completing interviews. SOAP is still an option. Done.

gamerEMdoc said:
AAMC should block everything. Why discriminate against people that score poorly? Or don't do research? Or go to a school that isn't a top school. All apps should just say "medical student" and "passed". No name, no picture, no hobbies, no identifying information, and no means of stratification. Residencies should throw darts at apps to randomly select who to interview. This is clearly the only way to fairly select candidates.
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Honestly that's not such a bad idea. Pick a random number of medical students to interview and be done with it. Unless there is good evidence to discriminate based on Step 1 score, extracurricular activities, school name, etc. why bother with all that?
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
One step in a better direction towards training better doctors. Step 2 SHOULD be more heavily emphasized.

Clinical medicine >> basic sciences (by a long mile). If you can pass step 1, you know all the basic science you could possibly need to know.
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I don't disagree, the issue is the timing. If they eliminated step 1 and just had a step 2 exam with results coming in the middle of 3rd year, then I'd be 100% cool with this.
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
One step in a better direction towards training better doctors. Step 2 SHOULD be more heavily emphasized.

Clinical medicine >> basic sciences (by a long mile). If you can pass step 1, you know all the basic science you could possibly need to know.
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exactly !!!!
 
Phloston said:
Poor and myopic decision IMHO from AMA here for several reasons:

1) Step 1 levels the playing field in the modern era. You can go to school anywhere, and as long as you work hard, you've got a shot at your dream residency. Now what? We return to a 1996, pre-internet era where institutional name matters that much more? This decision carries a thinly disguised anti-immigration mindset.

2) This won't decrease med student anxiety; it's just going to shift the focus/attention to 2CK. Now everyone will ignore Step 1 and just obsess over 2CK. In other words, 2CK will simply become what Step 1 is now. Emphasis on grades will also become greater. Rather than students fixating on boards, they'll simply fixate on their med school's out-of-touch lecture material instead.

3) Residencies will actually have less objective information available to them about qualified candidates. The layered effect of requiring numerical scores for Steps 1 + 2CK, with these exams assessing different aspects of knowledge, helps residencies evaluate candidates objectively. Grades are subjective at best and vary by institution. Without a Step 1 score, programs will look strictly at 2CK + grades. In turn, the process of applying to residency will become the same as applying to med school - i.e., everything rides on MCAT + grades; well for residency, everything will just be 2CK + grades.

4) This is probably the most important one: You're going to get doctors who are literally less educated. You cannot romanticize that 100% of the med student population is going to study their foundational concepts assiduously for fun. Most people function within the realm of practicality: "Ok, I did UWorld once and did decent. I've gotta focus on these random slides my professor put up. So, yeah, I'm done with Step 1 prep." Students will now ignore basic sciences and just study clinical material instead. You'll get MS1 students reading 2CK books without even understanding basic endocrine or pathophys anymore. Result is greater proportion of future doctors won't understand the mechanisms for the diseases they're treating.
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Gimme a break dude. At least step 2 covers useful material that you need to know.
And less educated doctors? How about the midlevels practicing independent medicine who wouldn't even pass step 3 if they studied for it.
 
ReturnToMed said:
Is this gonna end up being like high school again where you join a bunch of activities and clubs you don't care about so you can have a better app when applying to college?
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Or do research. Which has 0 bearing at all on how good of a physician you'll be. Honestly, I could care less about board scores, but if it came down to juding a candidate for EM based on boards or research, I'd have to tell you, boards would be a better predictor on who will be good clinically. And boards suck as a predictor of clinical success in EM.
 
Lawper said:
I'm trying to find a lot more room for Step 2 CK for planning purposes since Step 1 is now useless. So was thinking of getting Step 2 CK done ASAP but that would make it necessary to dramatically cut down the preclinical time since I don't know what other option would work.
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That's what I'm saying. The schools that have the 1.5 year preclinical model with dedicated Step prep after clerkships are already set up for this. Students would still have the CK score back before sub-i season and could still be confident in their choice of specialty.
 
longhaul3 said:
That's what I'm saying. The schools that have the 1.5 year preclinical model with dedicated Step prep after clerkships are already set up for this. Students would still have the CK score back before sub-i season and could still be confident in their choice of specialty.
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Agreed. Hopefully schools will adapt accordingly. A step 2 score back by March would go a long way in fixing this process considerably.
 
longhaul3 said:
That's what I'm saying. The schools that have the 1.5 year preclinical model with dedicated Step prep after clerkships are already set up for this. Students would still have the CK score back before sub-i season and could still be confident in their choice of specialty.
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gamerEMdoc said:
Agreed. Hopefully schools will adapt accordingly. A step 2 score back by March would go a long way in fixing this process considerably.
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Ok I got it now, and it makes sense. I'm hoping more schools take note of this and change accordingly.
 
alkaidius said:
Spare me...a million other docs have done this in the past several decades with the Step 1 average around 200 and nobody batted an eye...
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Current students scoring higher on the Step 1 means the new generation is more educated. Previous average of 200 means schools weren't doing their job in helping students learn the relevant material. People didn't bat an eye in the 1800s either when we used leaches or potions.

alkaidius said:
a lot of docs don’t remember or care about pathophys anymore...
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Is this a projection of your personal sentiment? I think you'll find plenty of doctors who think understanding the basics matters.

alkaidius said:
It’s the school exams purpose to make sure students understand their basic pathophysiology.
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Right. And, as you've pointed out, the previous generation that relied exclusively on schools for this purpose saw USMLE averages of 200. Qbanks didn't exist back then. Now that students focus on Step 1 prep instead of school material, they actually know how to consolidate on what's important objectively to practice medicine in this country.

alkaidius said:
Changing Step 1 from graded to P/F does nothing to prevent med students from stressing about it. It is a difficult exam in its own right and will never be treated like CS.
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Unless a student has issues passing exams, period, the overwhelming majority of med students won't stress at all about Step 1. The goal will be to pass comfortably with an, e.g., 220-230 equivalent, and then just focus on school lectures + 2CK material.

alkaidius said:
To begin with what distinguished high scorers from low scorers was minutiae not understanding of the concepts and not anything that made them better doctors. This has been repeated ad nauseam for years. I agree with all your other points.
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Let's not over-generalize here that high scores are due to mere memorization of minutiae. We're not talking about a few questions differentiating a 267 from a 272. We're talking about students who would have scored 260s who will now happily not waste time once they know they could get an easy 240 equivalent.
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
Gimme a break dude. At least step 2 covers useful material that you need to know.
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Over-generalized statement in its entirety.

MedicineZ0Z said:
And less educated doctors? How about the midlevels practicing independent medicine who wouldn't even pass step 3 if they studied for it.
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Correct. Less educated doctors. This has zero relation to Step 3.
 
Now that the Step 1 exam has been rendered useless for residency match purposes, the NBOME should see this as a new business opportunity. The NBOME could allow MD students to take the COMLEX Level 1 exam. This would enable MD students to receive a standardized test score at the end of second year that they could send with their residency applications. What would be in it for the NBOME? Loads of dough—and as a bonus, thousands of MD students would be forced to study osteopathy in order to prepare for the exam, thereby pushing osteopathy into the mainstream.
 
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Phloston said:
Overgeneralized statement in its entirety.



Correct. Less educated doctors. This has zero relation to Step 3.
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If anything, we'll have significantly better doctors now. Medical schools can teach actual medicine rather than an arms race for step 1. Students will learn from clinicians instead of sneak in uworld questions during class sessions.
And board studying (for step 2ck) will be focused on clinical medicine.
 
Phloston said:
Current students scoring higher on the Step 1 means the new generation is more educated. Previous average of 200 means schools weren't doing their job in helping students learn the relevant material. People didn't bat an eye in the 1800s either when we used leaches or potions.



Is this a projection of your personal sentiment? I think you'll find plenty of doctors who think understanding the basics matters.



Right. And, as you've pointed out, the previous generation that relied exclusively on schools for this purpose saw USMLE averages of 200. Qbanks didn't exist back then. Now that students focus on Step 1 prep instead of school material, they actually know how to consolidate on what's important objectively to practice medicine in this country.



Unless a student has issues passing exams, period, the overwhelming majority of med students won't stress at all about Step 1. The goal will be to pass comfortably with an, e.g., 220-230 equivalent, and then just focus on school lectures + 2CK material.



Let's not over-generalize here that high scores are due to mere memorization of minutiae. We're not talking about a few questions differentiating a 267 from a 272. We're talking about students who would have scored 260s who will now happily not waste time once they know they could get an easy 240 equivalent.
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More educated at what!? My MS4 today who also has a PhD and did well on Step 1, couldn't do a bread and butter workup. You're delusional.
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
If anything, we'll have significantly better doctors now. Medical schools can teach actual medicine rather than an arms race for step 1. Students will learn from clinicians instead of sneak in uworld questions during class sessions.
And board studying (for step 2ck) will be focused on clinical medicine.
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Oh we'll get more minutae from PhD lectures. Every clinical lecture during preclinical I've had has been plan bad and a mess
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
If anything, we'll have significantly better doctors now. Medical schools can teach actual medicine rather than an arms race for step 1.
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"Actual medicine" means what? You mean clinical stuff? Yes, that's important too. But doesn't change the fact that people will neglect underlying concepts. Maybe the latter isn't "actual medicine" to some people, but it shouldn't be discounted.

MedicineZ0Z said:
Students will learn from clinicians instead of sneak in uworld questions during class sessions.
And board studying (for step 2ck) will be focused on clinical medicine.
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Should a student be doing UWorld in the middle of a clinic? Probably not. During lecture? One might make a case for that. Why would the lecture be better? Many people would contend that students assiduously learning well-consolidated information from UWorld eclipses in value some 60-year-old professor's slides that are out of touch.
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
More educated at what!? My MS4 today who also has a PhD and did well on Step 1, couldn't do a bread and butter workup. You're delusional.
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Don't know how to respond to this apart from pointing out that it contains zero substance.
 
Osminog said:
Now that the Step 1 exam has been rendered useless for residency match purposes, the NBOME should see this as a new business opportunity. The NBOME could allow MD students take the COMLEX Level 1 exam. This would enable MD students to receive a standardized test score at the end of second year that they could send with their residency applications. What would be in it for the NBOME? Loads of dough—and as a bonus, thousands of MD students would be forced to study osteopathy in order to prepare for the exam, thereby pushing osteopathy into the mainstream.
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no thank you
 
As an M1 at a low tier MD school, this is so demoralizing. Even though we're not highly ranked, my school puts out a strong match list every year and I have to believe that was due in large part to our Step 1 scores. Now I feel like we're screwed due to the subjectivity of reputation and M3 clerkships. Think my best bet now is pound out a ton of research and kill Step 2 CK.

Edit: unless of course, they don't retroactively replace my 2XX with a P since I'll be taking it in 2021. But who knows what will happen
 
Phloston said:
"Actual medicine" means what? You mean clinical stuff? Yes, that's important too. But doesn't change the fact that people will neglect underlying concepts. Maybe the latter isn't "actual medicine" to some people, but it shouldn't be discounted.



Should a student be doing UWorld in the middle of a clinic? Probably not. During lecture? One might make a case for that. Why would the lecture be better? Many people would contend that students assiduously learning well-consolidated information from UWorld eclipses in value some 60-year-old professor's slides that are out of touch.
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You need a baseline knowledge of basic sciences, not an overwhelming level of knowledge. A pass on step 1 is absolutely sufficient.
 
Phloston said:
Current students scoring higher on the Step 1 means the new generation is more educated. Previous average of 200 means schools weren't doing their job in helping students learn the relevant material. People didn't bat an eye in the 1800s either when we used leaches or potions.



Is this a projection of your personal sentiment? I think you'll find plenty of doctors who think understanding the basics matters.



Right. And, as you've pointed out, the previous generation that relied exclusively on schools for this purpose saw USMLE averages of 200. Qbanks didn't exist back then. Now that students focus on Step 1 prep instead of school material, they actually know how to consolidate on what's important objectively to practice medicine in this country.



Unless a student has issues passing exams, period, the overwhelming majority of med students won't stress at all about Step 1. The goal will be to pass comfortably with an, e.g., 220-230 equivalent, and then just focus on school lectures + 2CK material.



Let's not over-generalize here that high scores are due to mere memorization of minutiae. We're not talking about a few questions differentiating a 267 from a 272. We're talking about students who would have scored 260s who will now happily not waste time once they know they could get an easy 240 equivalent.
Click to expand...


Scores are higher because curriculum targets it specifically. Scores are higher because we have Pathoma, UWorld, Sketchy, FirstAid. It’s called score creeping and has nothing to do with education. Multiple generations of doctors have proven that you don’t need a high score to provide great patient care! We have ZERO evidence that it actually helps.

A lot of schools rely on PhDs to teach the pathophysiology while doctors teach it from a clinical perspective. I have yet to meet one, ONE, doctor in my clinical rotations that utilized Step 1 or even acknowledged my knowledge of Step 1 pathophys as useful.

Basics do matter, but Step 1 being P/F will do NOTHING to prevent students from learning thm, because school exams will ensure they learn it. There is NO medical student that will look at this P/F for Step 1 and underestimate it. Med students stress about ungraded OSCEs for pete’s sake. And unlike the CS, any sort of slacking on Step1 will cause them to fail.

Why are you obsessed over a high Step 1?? It means nothing! Especially the difference between a 240 and a 260...this is not an exam that descended from the heavens that gives any sort of accurate assessment. God did not make it. It’s sole purpose was to make residency’s lives easier. That’s it!

Edit: sorry by pathophys I’m not talking basic endocrine, I’m referring to stuff on the biochemical scale.
 
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Phloston said:
"Actual medicine" means what? You mean clinical stuff? Yes, that's important too. But doesn't change the fact that people will neglect underlying concepts. Maybe the latter isn't "actual medicine" to some people, but it shouldn't be discounted. it is not discounted, it is counted( you still have to pass), but the emphasis now is more towards clinical rotations where you learn to diagnose, differentiate, and plan to treat( what actual medicine is, that is what you are missing here).



Should a student be doing UWorld in the middle of a clinic? Probably not. During lecture? One might make a case for that. Why would the lecture be better? Many people would contend that students assiduously learning well-consolidated information from UWorld eclipses in value some 60-year-old professor's slides that are out of touch.
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Looking at the link DJay posted above, this recommendation I find interesting:

Recommendation #2: Accelerate research on the correlation of USMLE performance to measures of residency performance and clinical practice.

Here at AMSA, we believe in evidence-based practice in all realms. It is essential that we know if the numerical scoring of the USMLE correlates to residency performance or clinical practice. As it exists now, the USMLE scoring system to many appears to be an arbitrary assessment that residency and test prep companies use to their advantage. The current numerical scoring system also leads to students spending more money, to apply to more residency programs, and to utilize third party test prep companies in order to achieve a higher score, to ensure that they match into the specialty of their choice.
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They can use research as a justification all they want, but you can see their follow-up explanation here clearly revolves around money. The bottom line is that institutions are being weeded out in the internet world. Education just simply doesn't require four walls anymore. People can easily find the education they need online (i.e., UWorld, tutors, etc.). Tell me a single person you know of who doesn't feel like med school gets in the way of USMLE prep. It's because the education the student is seeking isn't dependent on the institution anymore. The people who make this type of decision possibly have a desire to execute on a subconscious power-grab (i.e., students shouldn't skip my lectures + should learn my slides).

I wouldn't be surprised if in 10-20 years the requirement for physically being present at lectures no longer exists. Various structures will remain, such as anatomy labs and clinical coaching. But the shift will be to virtual learning. The older generation has to own that and not whine about students wanting to spend their educational dollars outside of institutions.
 
alkaidius said:
Scores are higher because curriculum targets it specifically. Scores are higher because we have Pathoma, UWorld, Sketchy, FirstAid. It’s called score creeping and has nothing to do with education. Multiple generations of doctors have proven that you don’t need a high score to provide great patient care! We have ZERO evidence that it actually helps.

A lot of schools rely on PhDs to teach the pathophysiology while doctors teach it from a clinical perspective. I have yet to meet one, ONE, doctor in my clinical rotations that utilized Step 1 or even acknowledged my knowledge of Step 1 pathophys as useful.

Basics do matter, but Step 1 being P/F will do NOTHING to prevent students from learning thm, because school exams will ensure they learn it. There is NO medical student that will look at this P/F for Step 1 and underestimate it. Med students stress about ungraded OSCEs for pete’s sake. And unlike the CS, any sort of slacking on Step1 will cause them to fail.

Why are you obsessed over a high Step 1?? It means nothing! Especially the difference between a 240 and a 260...this is not an exam that descended from the heavens that gives any sort of accurate assessment. God did not make it. It’s sole purpose was to make residency’s lives easier. That’s it!

Edit: sorry by pathophys I’m not talking basic endocrine, I’m referring to stuff on the biochemical scale.
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The difference in knowledge between a 240 and 260 is monumental.
 
Phloston said:
The difference in knowledge between a 240 and 260 is monumental.
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Standard error of 6 so there is a 96% chance that a 240 would score between 228 and 252 and a 260 would score between a 248 and a 272.
Those scores are not as different as you think they are and with the same level of prepation there is a distinct possibility that their scores would overlap if administered multiple times.
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
More educated at what!? My MS4 today who also has a PhD and did well on Step 1, couldn't do a bread and butter workup. You're delusional.
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Step 1 mainly focuses on diagnosis and pathophysiology. It does not test on patient work-up, but BOTH are important. On the other hand, Step 2 tests you mostly on work-up, “next best step,” etc. But without being very good at diagnosis and pathophysiology, you’re just an NP, excelling at working up simple cases.
 
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MedicineZ0Z said:
More educated at what!? My MS4 today who also has a PhD and did well on Step 1, couldn't do a bread and butter workup. You're delusional.
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oh puhleez give the kid real responsibility and see how he actually performs better. We have already hashed out your tired points in another thread.
 
ace_inhibitor111 said:
Maybe we should all just emulate the CNP curriculum. They’re excellent at bread and butter cases.

Step 1 mainly focuses on diagnosis and pathophysiology, but it does not test you on work-up. BOTH are important. Step 2 tests you mostly on how to work-up a case, “next best step,” etc. but without being very good at diagnosis and pathophysiology, you’re just an NP, excelling at simple cases.
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We're not eradicating step 1. Just turning it into a P/F. You still need a strong knowledge base just to pass step 1....
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
We're not eradicating step 1. Just turning it into a P/F. You still need a strong knowledge base just to pass step 1....
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Regardless of what people think at the end of this thread, I really think this is a big issue.

I don't actually think you need that strong of a knowledge base to pass step 1.

We took a school-administrated CBSE back in November. I am probably one of the laziest students pre-clinically. I scored in the 3rd or 4th quartile in all but one of my school's exams until that point, had only seen half of Zanki and had not done a single practice question. Oh and we still had two system blocks left at that point.

And I still passed.

I really don't think I knew anything when I took the exam, so if this is what we're going to start expecting of and producing out of the next generation of medical students, I'm genuinely worried.
 
ooh a bean said:
Regardless of what people think at the end of this thread, I really think this is a big issue.

I don't actually think you need that strong of a knowledge base to pass step 1.

We took a school-administrated CBSE back in November. I am probably one of the laziest students pre-clinically. I scored in the 3rd or 4th quartile in all but one of my school's exams until that point, had only seen half of Zanki and had not done a single practice question. Oh and we still had two system blocks left at that point.

And I still passed.

I really don't think I knew anything when I took the exam, so if this is what we're going to start expecting of and producing out of the next generation of medical students, I'm genuinely worried.
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Ok... and how many residents would pass step 1? Attendings?
Canada doesn't have step 1 and we consider their doctors to be American equivalents. Many other Western countries don't have anything similar and produce excellent physicians as well.

I also disagree that you don't need a relatively strong knowledge base to pass the exam. Your n = 1 anecdote is just silly and the whole "I know nothing" example is even more silly. The vast majority of USMLE questions are quite difficult. Without a relatively strong knowledge base, you wouldn't pass. All those super rare zebras and detailed drug mechanisms aren't things you will even remember.


I also think it's VERY silly and borderline insanity that we spend all that time in medical school just memorizing detailed rare facts so we can do well on an exam that's just a means to an end. A proper education system would use that time to make you into a better doctor.
 
efle said:
Two predictions on some ambiguous areas:
  • They are going to retroactively apply this and make your Sept 2022 ERAS say "Pass." The alternative, allowing some people to apply with numerical/percentiles while others in the same cycle are forced to apply only with a Pass, is asking for trouble.
    • Lmao at people saying they're going to send PDs a screenshot of their score report. I could make an identical screenshot with a different number substituted using Microsoft Paint in about 30 seconds. If they want this Pass/Fail for the Sept 2022 ERAS and Match, they're going to only show Pass on ERAS, and PDs are going to treat it as Pass.
  • They are also aware that Step 2 CK could just become the new screening tool. They're planning to make Step 2 CK into Pass/Fail just like Step 2 CS and Step 1. They're just easing everyone into it by not changing them both at once, and by not changing anything immediately.
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You’re saying they will give you numerical scores in 2021 only to take them away in 2022 retroactively when applying? Why would they do that. If they were worried about people applying with mixed P/F and numerical, they would have rolled out P/F by match year instead of calendar date?
 
subdermallight said:
You’re saying they will give you numerical scores in 2021 only to take them away in 2022 retroactively when applying? Why would they do that. If they were worried about people applying with mixed P/F and numerical, they would have rolled out P/F by match year instead of calendar date?
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From another thread:

efle said:
It makes a ton of sense to do it retroactively.

Put yourself in the shoes of a PD at a competitive surgical program in 2022. You'd become completely familiar and reliant on Step 1 as your major yardstick, and Step 2 hasn't really been able to replace Step 1 in the short time it's been absent. Most of your applicants are coming from Pass/Fail preclinical curriculums, and many have clinical grades that are inflated, subjective, and generally not that useful. Everyone has a big pile of worthless case reports and middle authorships on small chart reviews. Everyone's MSPE raves about them and refuses to give ranks, or even quartiles anymore.

Along comes Mr. GapYears, who took some time off for research and has a 261 listed for Step 1. Wow! You know what that means!
His friend from the year below him in school, Mr. NoGap, has an extremely similar application with research years prior to med school but a Pass for Step 1.

You rank Mr. GapYears a lot better, and he matches at your program, while Mr. NoGap doesn't. In fact, Mr. NoGap falls surprisingly far down his rank list and is very upset.

Has Mr. NoGap been treated unfairly here? How do we know he didn't get a 270 and was simply unable to show so? Would you be comfortable arguing about it in court?

Seems much safer to just draw a deadline after all the current scoreholders have matched (sans MSTP), and then report everybody and anybody on ERAS as just Pass.
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efle said:
A couple other things to add:

Some early match specialties that are competitive (Ophtho, Urology) will be very, very hard to get all your cores done and take Step 2 CK in time to know if you're competitive or have a score to show early in the cycle when interviews are being decided.

Some schools have shifted Step exams to after clinical core rotations. This means there would be entire cohorts of students between similar schools (e.g. Hopkins vs Penn) where one group got to display scores and the other group didn't.

There's just no way they can let that kind of advantage/disadvantage play into a cycle in just 2 years. It's gonna be a hard deadline where all ERAS reports is Pass/Fail, retro or not.
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Well on the plus side

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MedicineZ0Z said:
Ok... and how many residents would pass step 1? Attendings?
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Probably most of them.
MedicineZ0Z said:
also disagree that you don't need a relatively strong knowledge base to pass the exam. Your n = 1 anecdote is just silly and the whole "I know nothing" example is even more silly. The vast majority of USMLE questions are quite difficult.
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Simply passing Step 1 is honestly not terribly difficult.

MedicineZ0Z said:
All those super rare zebras and detailed drug mechanisms aren't things you will even remember.
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Most of Step 1 is not zebras..
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
Ok... and how many residents would pass step 1? Attendings?
Canada doesn't have step 1 and we consider their doctors to be American equivalents. Many other Western countries don't have anything similar and produce excellent physicians as well.

I also disagree that you don't need a relatively strong knowledge base to pass the exam. Your n = 1 anecdote is just silly and the whole "I know nothing" example is even more silly. The vast majority of USMLE questions are quite difficult. Without a relatively strong knowledge base, you wouldn't pass. All those super rare zebras and detailed drug mechanisms aren't things you will even remember.


I also think it's VERY silly and borderline insanity that we spend all that time in medical school just memorizing detailed rare facts so we can do well on an exam that's just a means to an end. A proper education system would use that time to make you into a better doctor.
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your argument is all over the place, it hurts my head

Shouldn't you have a strong knowledge base as a doctor? I swear that's part of why I went to med school in the first place...
 
efle said:
From another thread:
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This^^ the dean at my school sits on the NBME board along with other sdner faculty. It will be reported in ERAS as P/NP. They would not let entire classes go into the match with a P and others with a score, and it’s even more unlikely they just “forgot” some schools take step 1 during 3rd year
 
efle said:
From another thread:
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Yes but this is kind of what I was saying, they need to do it by application year. Like, everyone for the 2023 match will have a numerical Step.

They are much more likely to push up the deadline for those students that take Step 3rd year than to retroactively make numerical scores disappear. Why would they even give them out if they are going to be hiding all of them later
 
welp. OMS-0 here. Started practicing with anki and making cards for Costanzo. Also have all of b&b from a friend and started watching the biochem videos. Was going to unsuspend more cards today from my gross anatomy deck and anking b&b. Who cares anymore. I’m going into primary care now. Thanks for killing my motivation
 
subdermallight said:
Yes but this is kind of what I was saying, they need to do it by application year. Like, everyone for the 2023 match will have a numerical Step.

They are much more likely to push up the deadline for those students that take Step 3rd year than to retroactively make numerical scores disappear. Why would they even give them out if they are going to be hiding all of them later
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The actual date doesn't matter, so long as it's between January 1 2022 and ERAS being sent out in Autumn 2022. They can pick any deadline date they want and this will apply it to everyone in the Sept 2022-March 2023 cycle. That's probably why they worded it "no earlier than Jan 1 2022," really they'll just pick whatever date they think is best between January and September. I'd predict something like May when they do their yearly question bank update.
 
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