Step 2 CS failure

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Elivis

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So I have failed the CS exam. For some background I am a fairly good student. Step 1 score of 241, Step 2 score of 264, class rank in the top quarter of my class. I studied First Aid for Step 2 CS for about two weeks prior to taking the exam. My question is this, has anyone successfully challenged their score? What might I do to improve in the future? According to my dean I might not graduate on time, let alone match into the specialty that I desire. This just feels like a great big kick in the balls. Thank you.

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Dude, I hope for your sake that it doesn't happen to you, but I never gave the freakin' test a second thought until I was sitting at an interview and the assistant PD asked me "What happened on the CS exam?" Now, on my last two interviews I was told that this wouldn't keep me off of their programs rank lists. Whether or not they were blowing smoke up my tail.... we will just have to wait and see.
You probably passed. As far as all the conspiracy theories go you guys are delusional. Why would anyone take the amount of time it would take to post many times under many names just to irritate those who don't have results back? Those of us who are new had no need for a forum until now. I'll be totally honest, I didn't even know this place existed until it came up on google. PM me or the others posting if you want our emails. Then you could work on a theory of how we are all the same person despite having different email accounts at different med schools across the country.
 
First off, thanks for anyone expressing sympathy for failing the step 2 cs, for the rest of you who have so much time on your hands that you have to accuse medical students of being scheming perpetuators of the worst kind, I hope you knock on plenty of wood, and learn to get a life outside of message boards.

Having failed step2 cs, specifically the CIS component (communication and interpersonal skills), this link has what they are looking for specifically in that component of the step2 cs.

http://www.usmle.org/step2/Step2CS/CommSkills.htm

Of course, the problem lies in the fact that the score sheet looks like an elementary schools grade card, and doesn't delineate any of the specifics for why you failed. Looking at that link though, I'm guessing some of the things that contributed to my getting a poor-borderline on CIS were due to the following:
Rushing through the interviews and trying to obtain too much information too quickly. (thus, not using enough "transitional statements, facilitating remarks", perhaps not giving patients enough time to give their meandering answers) Something tells me that going through the ROS gauntlet just doesn't jive with the conversational flow these interactions are supposed to have. How much ROS is sufficient? That I do not know.

"asking about expectations, feelings, and concerns of the patient support systems and impact of illness, with attempts to explore these areas"
I don't recall doing that for any patients besides the ones that looked really down in the dumps, so I guess you need to ask about patient's support systems when they come in with chest pain or a cough as well. (It can't hurt.)
The rest of the stuff, like washing hands, not gagging the patients to death, empathizing with the patient, summarizing the patient's presentation and the plan, and asking if they had any questions or concerns, I did.
I'm sure there are specific things that if you do, you get a big negative score automatically (i.e. interrupting the patient or telling the patient he might have a myocardial infarction instead of a heart attack)

Moral of the story: This isn't your typical office encounter. Go overboard in everything you do and treat the patient like you're treating a VIP who could get you barred from practicing medicine. Here's what I'm going to do, talk as slowly as possible, smile as much as possible, tell the patient that having "x" must be very difficult to deal with, what sort of support system do you have to deal with "x", with constant attention to their emotions and needs and further concerns, while doing a "focused" H+P all in 15 minutes.

For all the poor souls who failed step 2 cs because of their "poor history taking skills or chart writing", I don't know what to make of that. I'll join the litigation battle if I fail the 2nd time for taking too much time giving patients hugs and not obtaining enough history to write a decent H+P.

Good luck to all.
 
Why is it so hard for people to be sympathetic to others? How can these people who accuse the ones who failed be so arrogant?!!! I just hope that no one in my family will encounter them as their physician in the future!
 
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I also failed, took it in late september in LA...and facing the same nightmare of not being able to participate in the match. Trying desparately to get a test date before dec. 31st...

Thanks for the link ACS, I also failed the CIS...and my score was pretty low, despite doing all the smiling, handshaking, asking open ended Qs, draping, showing "compassion." I don't think I asked about support system at all...this time I will. I guess I will try to do the same as you, put down my pride and just kiss the SPs asses and hope for the best. Seems to me you can screw up the data gathering and patient note pretty badly and still pass if you do decently on CIS.
 
I also failed, took it in late september in LA...and facing the same nightmare of not being able to participate in the match. Trying desparately to get a test date before dec. 31st...

Thanks for the link ACS, I also failed the CIS...and my score was pretty low, despite doing all the smiling, handshaking, asking open ended Qs, draping, showing "compassion." I don't think I asked about support system at all...this time I will. I guess I will try to do the same as you, put down my pride and just kiss the SPs asses and hope for the best. Seems to me you can screw up the data gathering and patient note pretty badly and still pass if you do decently on CIS.

Not only SP, but that's what you should be doing to real patients as well...the rest your life as a doctor. I think that's one of the core issues the test wishes to make sure we practice.
 
Not only SP, but that's what you should be doing to real patients as well...the rest your life as a doctor. I think that's one of the core issues the test wishes to make sure we practice.

Give me a break. I intend to treat patients as I would like to be treated, but this test has very little to do with the way I have seen medicine practiced over the last few years.
 
...these guys with all the answers. That is the worst part about this. Absolutely nothing constructive offered, just underhanded remarks to teach us all life lessons.
 
Not only SP, but that's what you should be doing to real patients as well...the rest your life as a doctor. I think that's one of the core issues the test wishes to make sure we practice.

Kissing patient ass? Whatever. They'll come to me because I'm good. I guess if youre a family practice MF, then maybe you'll need to practice your pursed lips. I'm glad there are specialties for the bleeding hearts.
 
Kissing patient ass? Whatever. They'll come to me because I'm good. I guess if youre a family practice MF, then maybe you'll need to practice your pursed lips. I'm glad there are specialties for the bleeding hearts.


I'm not going into primary care. I just like to respect my patients. Unfortunately people like you are a disgrace to the profession.
 
Occam's Razor . . . which is the simplest and most likely explaination . . . since the last batch of scores came out when *drum roll* . . . December 6, would it seem more likely that there a few folks who failed that logged on here for the first time to get some information, advice, and support, or that there is one guy spending all this extra time prepetuating a scam on studentdoc.

Now both are plausible. Both made the differential list. Which is most likely future docs? Really?

Really? Are you in a position to be that sarcastic and condescending when you can't pass a test that 95% of your classmates did without any problem?

I'll join the litigation battle if I fail the 2nd time for taking too much time giving patients hugs and not obtaining enough history to write a decent H+P.

Good luck to all.

It's an overly warm fuzzy environment. So what? Every text you read on Step 2 CS mentions that this is extremely important. Hopefully this time you'll take that to heart and focus on faking some sympathy.

Besides, there is plenty of time to give hugs/show sympathy, etc, and still obtain and document a full H and P.......if you're efficient, you should have a lot of time left over despite doing all these things.

I also failed, took it in late september in LA...and facing the same nightmare of not being able to participate in the match. Trying desparately to get a test date before dec. 31st...

Thanks for the link ACS, I also failed the CIS...and my score was pretty low, despite doing all the smiling, handshaking, asking open ended Qs, draping, showing "compassion." I don't think I asked about support system at all...this time I will. I guess I will try to do the same as you, put down my pride and just kiss the SPs asses and hope for the best. Seems to me you can screw up the data gathering and patient note pretty badly and still pass if you do decently on CIS.

You have a good attitude, and will most likely pass without difficulty the second time.

Give me a break. I intend to treat patients as I would like to be treated, but this test has very little to do with the way I have seen medicine practiced over the last few years.

Perhaps you've had bad teachers/role models, and this is why you failed.

Kissing patient ass? Whatever. They'll come to me because I'm good. I guess if youre a family practice MF, then maybe you'll need to practice your pursed lips. I'm glad there are specialties for the bleeding hearts.

Wow, I definitely know why you failed.


I believe that you are all separate people with unique stories, all going through a world of s#@t because you failed this test.....but I also believe that at least the majority of you deserved to fail. I don't believe that there is a conspiracy against you, or that any litigation will be successful. The best idea is to move on, and try much harder for your retake.

jdh71's last post is a too-perfect example of the type of student that the USMLE thinks needs remediation, and despite having the mental faculty to be a doctor, is too rough around the edges to provide compassionate patient care.

This test is a joke....I'm not arguing against that......but it's designed for 95%+ of US seniors to pass. I believe many people that fail are unable to hide their arrogance and disinterest, and can't fake compassion even for these short 10 minute interactions. As long as this test is a requirement, and the expectations are spelled out with an emphasis on sympathy, etc, these people deserve to fail.

Good luck.:luck:
 
Really? Are you in a position to be that sarcastic and condescending when you can't pass a test that 95% of your classmates did without any problem?

Wow, I definitely know why you failed.

I believe that you are all separate people with unique stories, all going through a world of s#@t because you failed this test.....but I also believe that at least the majority of you deserved to fail. I don't believe that there is a conspiracy against you, or that any litigation will be successful. The best idea is to move on, and try much harder for your retake.

jdh71's last post is a too-perfect example of the type of student that the USMLE thinks needs remediation, and despite having the mental faculty to be a doctor, is too rough around the edges to provide compassionate patient care.

This test is a joke....I'm not arguing against that......but it's designed for 95%+ of US seniors to pass. I believe many people that fail are unable to hide their arrogance and disinterest, and can't fake compassion even for these short 10 minute interactions. As long as this test is a requirement, and the expectations are spelled out with an emphasis on sympathy, etc, these people deserve to fail.

Commenting on my condescencion like that? That's funny, look at what you wrote. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. You win the prize for most ironic comment of the day. Besides I was not condescending, if your silly accusations looked pretty stupid next to a simple exercise in logic, that's your stuff, not mine.

My failure of this test was directly related to the note - a couple of pinheads didn't like my style of note. History and physical component - scored off the chart. Communication and interpersonal skills off of the chart. You don't know **** about me or my test or why I failed, but you talk like you do. You're so full of crap it's impressive. There are many students who dumped this thing that should not have - ask your dean. It's been a trend with the last batch of scores across the country. It's not a conspiracy and no one has suggested that it is, but it is problematic and NBME needs to address the issue, even if nothing more than to clarify precisely scoring.
 
Really? Are you in a position to be that sarcastic and condescending when you can't pass a test that 95% of your classmates did without any problem?


Wow, I definitely know why you failed.


I believe that you are all separate people with unique stories, all going through a world of s#@t because you failed this test.....but I also believe that at least the majority of you deserved to fail. I don't believe that there is a conspiracy against you, or that any litigation will be successful. The best idea is to move on, and try much harder for your retake.

This test is a joke....I'm not arguing against that......but it's designed for 95%+ of US seniors to pass. I believe many people that fail are unable to hide their arrogance and disinterest, and can't fake compassion even for these short 10 minute interactions. As long as this test is a requirement, and the expectations are spelled out with an emphasis on sympathy, etc, these people deserve to fail.

Good luck.:luck:

Dude, I failed for data gathering. I didn't meet enough items on the check off list for the SP. Nothing to do with compassion. Obviously, you are one compassionate dude from your comments, not to mention an internet tough guy.
I can deal with criticism until the ...these people deserve to fail...comment. Dude, I came here to find others in the same position as me, not be insulted by the self righteous. You don't even know me. Medicine is full of a$$holes who like to one up each other. That is why you can always find a physician to testify against another physician. If you are ever in Huntington, WV look me up and we can "discuss" compassion.
I apologize for the unprofessional nature of my last paragraph and this will be the last time I respond to an insulting comment. I am under a great deal of pressure right now having a family that is relying on me and the possibility for not matching haunting my thoughts daily.
 
I believe that you are all separate people with unique stories, all going through a world of s#@t because you failed this test.....but I also believe that at least the majority of you deserved to fail. I don't believe that there is a conspiracy against you, or that any litigation will be successful. The best idea is to move on, and try much harder for your retake.

jdh71's last post is a too-perfect example of the type of student that the USMLE thinks needs remediation, and despite having the mental faculty to be a doctor, is too rough around the edges to provide compassionate patient care.

This test is a joke....I'm not arguing against that......but it's designed for 95%+ of US seniors to pass. I believe many people that fail are unable to hide their arrogance and disinterest, and can't fake compassion even for these short 10 minute interactions. As long as this test is a requirement, and the expectations are spelled out with an emphasis on sympathy, etc, these people deserve to fail.

Good luck.:luck:

Best case scenario is you are trying to be inflammatory. Worst case is you are really this big a douche. Thank you for coming down from your lofty perch in Wichita to tell the poor saps like myself how things are. Happy holidays.
 
My failure of this test was directly related to the note - a couple of pinheads didn't like my style of note. History and physical component - scored off the chart. Communication and interpersonal skills off of the chart. You don't know **** about me or my test or why I failed, but you talk like you do. You're so full of crap it's impressive. There are many students who dumped this thing that should not have - ask your dean. It's been a trend with the last batch of scores across the country. It's not a conspiracy and no one has suggested that it is, but it is problematic and NBME needs to address the issue, even if nothing more than to clarify precisely scoring.

I'm only responding to you because the other replies had pretty good points and I don't have much material to come back with. I'll admit that I was purposefully harsh, but after following this thread for a week, I started to lose compassion for my fellow student/resident and become frustrated with the level of bullcrap being displayed.

To the other posters: that was my mistake, and you are right in thinking that I should be more sympathetic to your predicament. Like I said, it is a world of s@#t, and I hope you can dig your way out in time for a positive match result.

What brought me to this level of insensitivity was reading posts where people chiming in about their failure acted like they did nothing wrong, and "the man" was holding them down. However, when reading their posts, you could pick up on the idiosyncrasies that likely contributed to them coming up short. You need to learn from your mistakes if you're going to improve, not create excuses to explain why you did nothing wrong.

As for jdh71, you've learned nothing from your misfortune. "A couple pinheads" not liking your note wouldn't be enough to fail you if you scored "off the charts" on all other areas. You need to realize that you're not as awesome as you think you are, and fix what's wrong before you retake the test. Also, you should probably get a vasectomy.:thumbup:
 
As for jdh71, you've learned nothing from your misfortune. "A couple pinheads" not liking your note wouldn't be enough to fail you if you scored "off the charts" on all other areas. You need to realize that you're not as awesome as you think you are, and fix what's wrong before you retake the test. Also, you should probably get a vasectomy.:thumbup:

Actually it was enough to fail me . . . my score report said as much "smart guy" - ask anyone who failed to give you the breakdown as you obviously have not a clue and basically know d!ck and run your mouth as if you know anything at all. You're terribly sad. I am awesome, probably more so than I think, and if they want to see notes a certain way, I'll give them notes the they want to see it and am practicing to this end.

As for the vasectomy . . . your girlfriend has asked me not to yet :thumbup:
 
Actually it was enough to fail me . . . my score report said as much "smart guy" - ask anyone who failed to give you the breakdown as you obviously have not a clue and basically know d!ck and run your mouth as if you know anything at all. You're terribly sad. I am awesome, probably more so than I think, and if they want to see notes a certain way, I'll give them notes the they want to see it and am practicing to this end.

As for the vasectomy . . . your girlfriend has asked me not to yet :thumbup:

That comeback was as pathetic as your first try at passing Step 2 CS.

Anyway, I'm not doubting that your notes sucking was enough to fail you, I'm just doubting that "a couple pinheads" were enough to fail you. Every time you write something new, you're proving my point. Maybe you should quit with the keyboard diarrhea and STFU (Stop The Fighting, which is Unnecessary).

Since it's the holidays, I'm going to give you a couple days to think of a really, super-duper good insult to throw at me, then I'll check the thread again to see how badly I've been burned. Word of advice, though: "your girlfriend" jokes don't hurt nearly as bad as "your mom" jokes, or even "your mom's mom." I'll give you big props if you can really burn my grandmother.
 
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