Step 2 CS failure

[Elivis]

So I have failed the CS exam. For some background I am a fairly good student. Step 1 score of 241, Step 2 score of 264, class rank in the top quarter of my class. I studied First Aid for Step 2 CS for about two weeks prior to taking the exam. My question is this, has anyone successfully challenged their score? What might I do to improve in the future? According to my dean I might not graduate on time, let alone match into the specialty that I desire. This just feels like a great big kick in the balls. Thank you.

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[nabeya]

So I have failed the CS exam. For some background I am a fairly good student. Step 1 score of 241, Step 2 score of 264, class rank in the top quarter of my class. I studied First Aid for Step 2 CS for about two weeks prior to taking the exam. My question is this, has anyone successfully challenged their score? What might I do to improve in the future? According to my dean I might not graduate on time, let alone match into the specialty that I desire. This just feels like a great big kick in the balls. Thank you.

Do you know what you did wrong to have failed the exam? Did you forget to ask important questions, wash hands, etc?

 

[Elivis]

As far as I know I did everything required. I introduced myself, washed hands, draped patient, asked pertinent HPI questions, performed as much of a physical as time permitted, discussed differential, and asked if there were any questions. I really did not see this coming. Thank you for your help.

 

[acslater22]

Elivis, I am in the same predicament here. I just got the news today that I failed CS as well, and I am very much comparable with you in terms of step I and II scores. I too am trying to figure out what I could have done wrong during the examination. I know I took it pretty lightly, knowing how few people pass and having had several Clinical Skills exams at our medical school without any difficulties. I read over the First aid for CS a couple times, and thought I had done everything asked of me(wash hands, drape, open-ended questions, show empathy, etc), so who knows. I've never had any problems communicating with my patients and always received good evals on my rotations and some honors, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I still haven't received whatever breakdown they send you in terms of the scoring, so I don't know what part or parts I failed. From talking to my dean who was just as shocked she said that residency programs don't care as much about CS as CK, so who knows what that means exactly. I'm concerned because I set my scores on ERAS to automatically send to my programs, without even considering that I might fail. If anyone has gone through failing step 2 cs, or knows someone who has, I would like some advice here. I definitely will 'study' my ass off and make sure I do everything in my power not to fail it the next time, but I have no idea what I'm supposed to do about having this on my transcript. Should we be trying to explain this to the programs we applied to? If anyone can shed light on this, I would greatly appreciate it.

-apparently impersonal med student

 

[jojo14]

how were the notes that you had to write at the end of the encounter? i've heard those are a factor in the final score also.

best of luck to both of you, that sucks

 

[deleted113029]

Just goes to show you how much of a f'n POS exam that CS is! I feel so bad for you...and now am nervous when I take it at the end of this month.

This exam must END! (i know, i know...it's here so we all must deal with it.) BUT, what kind of an exam changes the minimal requirements to pass within the first 2 years of its administration. Don't even get me started on the $ to take it. What I don't understand is how they believe STANDARDIZED patients portray real life. Most of the time they're remembering what to say and what not to say and focusing on whether we are doing the right thing. Didn't we take biostatistics in medschool or something?! This is a huge OBSERVER BIAS amongst other things including RECALL BIAS...yet they teach us about double blind randomized prospective studies as being the best UNBIASED approach to assess a question.

Bottom line...our med schools with the attendings are the best assessment tools of our clinical abilities. They see us for more than one 15 minute session. Even ask our patients about our professionalism, etc.

Sorry for the rant. I'm pissed for you and everyone else who has to take this sham exam.

 

[maranatha]

That really blows! I really feel bad for you guys and others who have failed this stupid exam. The whole thing is a freakin scam!!!! This is what I think about the "exam":



When is someone going to sue!!!

 

[doc901333]

I am similar to the other two who failed. I am AOA, step1 242, step2 ck 257, and am in the top 4 of my class. I too studied for about 2 weeks and read the first aid book a couple of times. The powers that be at my med school are flipping out. We do an OSCE exam at the end of third year to prep for this thing which I passed with flying colors. Felt like I did fine. I can't wait for the official results to come in so I will know what I did wrong.

I am considering a recheck as well. It probably won't help, but even if I cough up another grand to retake this thing the results will not be in before match day. I figure it can't hurt to recheck it. This has become another of life's speed bumps.

Where did you guys take it at? I was in Atlanta

I don't know what to do about the programs I am considering either? Any advice is appreciated.

 

[deleted113029]

I am similar to the other two who failed. I am AOA, step1 242, step2 ck 257, and am in the top 4 of my class. I too studied for about 2 weeks and read the first aid book a couple of times. The powers that be at my med school are flipping out. We do an OSCE exam at the end of third year to prep for this thing which I passed with flying colors. Felt like I did fine. I can't wait for the official results to come in so I will know what I did wrong.

I am considering a recheck as well. It probably won't help, but even if I cough up another grand to retake this thing the results will not be in before match day. I figure it can't hurt to recheck it. This has become another of life's speed bumps.

Where did you guys take it at? I was in Atlanta

I don't know what to do about the programs I am considering either? Any advice is appreciated.

Hey, sorry about what happened. Hopefully it's the same problem that happened a year ago where they 'inadvertantly' failed a couple dozen people and made a dozen or so retake the exam because they did not have the ability to verify the patient encounters (whatever the hell that means...sounds like incompetent people ruining lives of the competent!)

As to the programs, if you checked that ERAS box that allowed you to manually resend USMLE scores/results, then you should be okay. (Don't send them out until you match and pass the second time around.) If you didn't, then I remember seeing on websites that programs require you to pass CS BEFORE the start of residency...so retaking and getting results before June may be still okay. (pure conjecture but trying to help.)

Good luck and may those CS a-holes be sued one day. (It would be ironic if they were sued because of this exam. )

 

[doc901333]

so they are there for God and everybody. What happened last year? Did you say they screwed up reporting and made people take that damn test again. That is BS!
Yeah, if you can't tell the old ego is a little bruised.

 

[deleted113029]

so they are there for God and everybody. What happened last year? Did you say they screwed up reporting and made people take that damn test again. That is BS!
Yeah, if you can't tell the old ego is a little bruised.

Bruised ego is definitely normal. (I guess i'll just bring some quilted northern to my exam, just in case. )As for the debacle that happened last year, go to the USMLE website. They have a link to their 'explanation' and 'sincere apologies' to those applicants who were screwed over.

 

[Elivis]

I spoke with my dean again today. Having auto submitted my scores, all of the programs I have applied to now know that I am ******ed. I was told that honesty would be my best bet as far as interviews go, just admit what you did wrong and address how you will fix the problem.

I took it in Atlanta as well, and God willing I will not return there.

Good luck to all of those in my boat. It still feels like I have been kicked in the balls, but it is getting better.

 

[doc901333]

let me know when your official report comes in and what it says. Yesterday I was pretty depressed, but today I am pissed. I honestly don't know how I could have screwed up that bad.

What day were you there? My CS exam was on sept 26th.

Hell, if they screwed up last year I can only hope that they did it again.

One of the guys I was interviewing with yesterday said that last year a student at his school got a fail for not being competent with English. The guy was from Memphis. They must have gotten his stuff mixed up with an IMG. He contacted them and after a few months of raising hell the NBME changed it.

 

[Elivis]

September 25th. Must have had some mean bastards down there that week. I will let you know if I find out anything.

 

[deleted113029]

Sept 25 and 26, both in Atlanta. Hmmm...something smells fishy.

Hope things work out for the both of you! Raise some hell like that guy from Memphis.

 

[jmrck]

OH ****, I took my CS in atlanta on the 25th also. I hope there isn't any BS going on, I will be one pissed off med student.

Jamrock

 

[emtji]

hi everyone.

actually, i was thinking about this recently. the reason why they have you cover up your department or medical school on your white coat is to avoid a bias against the fmg's so that the SP's won't automatically fail someone who went to punjab medical school.

what i think this also does is introduce a possible bias against american grads fluent in english, who happen to look like foreign grads.

all it's going to take is a class action lawsuit by all the folks who failied once who are clearly proficient in english and this exam is done and gone. i took mine in late nov in philly. still awaiting results.

 

[leorl]

Oh, BS. Plenty of foreign grads pass. The pass rate is less than US grads but still, there's not a huge IMG failure rate. The main reason people fail is because the NBME or whoever it is that controls this stuff just want money. Everyone knows it's a completely bs exam.

 

[doc901333]

Did you get a fail too?
The more I think about this the madder I get. There is no doubt in my mind that I shook hands, draped, and washed hands. I memorized the mneumonics everyone uses and wrote the notes in the format from the first aid book. I know this sounds arrogant, but I don't know how in the hell this happened!
Keep this thread going for anyone else in our shoes. What we need to know is where and when you took the test? The more of us there are the stronger our argument. I don't want this to screw up my shot at the residency program I want and I am sure everyone here feels the same. If you don't want to post a message send me a private message.
The NBME office in Philadelphia told me that we should get our official results back the early part of next week.

 

[scaredtodeath]

speaking of failure...i have come across several people who have failed either step1 or 2 and upon retake an increase of 30 points is usually noted. I believe for those who got their results, the instinct to have it rechecked even after having prepared for it due to loss of self esteem after the first failure. Heck, $600+ , $1000+ multiplied by thousands of students times 3 guaranteed...they probably figured hey a small percentage of repeaters will be good profit and since we all know the stigma of how DIFFICULT these exams are, who are we to question our scores? Who watches over USMLE anyway?

 

[Elivis]

I don't know that I would go as far as to say that they are rigging Steps 1 and 2 for profit. I thought both were very well written objective measures of my knowledge to that point. Answers are right or wrong. Step 3, on the other hand, is subjective and not nearly so black and white. I just hope that I am not being forced to retake a thousand dollar test on the whim of an evaluator that might be having a bad day.

 

[scaredtodeath]

I know... Im just saying its a strange coincidence for retakers to increase by just 30 pts whether they are a US grad or an IMG. Havent heard of any variety in the improvement. Either way though, business is business to some people. I think the theory behind the goal of this exam is good but it hasnt been executed well. The actual dealing with patients is what is important and not which phase in the cell cycle methotrexate affects...im just saying =)

 

[scaredtodeath]

I have a feeling this was an error on their part and the next letter you'll receive will state you have passed. Good luck!

 

[doc901333]

I may very well have to fork over an extra grand and retake this thing, but I will not go down without a fight. My only hope is that others won't take this kind of crap lying down.

 

[pillowhead]

Just curious--if you haven't got your official results yet, how did you find out you failed? Did you school find out and contact you?

i took this thing last monday and I had a horrible cold. i really hope that cold didn't cost me $1000 and a big chunk of self-esteem. I just didn't feel "on it" that day and in retrospect forgot a lot of important questions.

 

[Medical123]

So I have failed the CS exam. For some background I am a fairly good student. Step 1 score of 241, Step 2 score of 264, class rank in the top quarter of my class. I studied First Aid for Step 2 CS for about two weeks prior to taking the exam. My question is this, has anyone successfully challenged their score? What might I do to improve in the future? According to my dean I might not graduate on time, let alone match into the specialty that I desire. This just feels like a great big kick in the balls. Thank you.

Sorry to hear about this. I am still waiting on my results and I am scared to death that I may have failed the stupid thing!

Do you think that performance anxiety may have been a contributing factor to your failing the exam? I know that when I get nervous (and I was nervous during this test) I don't perform as well as I would have under ordinary circumstances. I am just hoping that I have passed.

As for not possibly not being able to graduate on time, for a thousand bucks, you would think that the people at the NBME would get off of their butts and get the darned tests graded in a TIMELY manner! I know that the notes are supposedly graded by practicing physicians, and it may be an inconvenience to them finished quickly. Too bad! It is an inconvenience for us to have to take out extra loan money to pay for this test, fly across the country, and make up clerkship time. Two months is too long to wait for results, especially when many schools require a passing grade for graduation and many programs require a passing score prior to starting residency. Dean's Offices and Residency Programs need to also take the time to get results into consideration. The entire test is bogus---nasty and incompetent people do pass this test and some excellent people have failed it. This test means nothing as far as one's ability to practice medicine goes. I doubt that some of the jerks at the NBME who have been practicing for twenty or thirty years could pass the stupid exam! Sorry! I had to get in my rant for the day!

 

[doc901333]

I wasn't really nervous. My school gave a practice test like this one with only 4 encounters. In every room an attending was sitting in the corner to evaluate, but wasn't allowed to interfere in anyway. At the end we received feedback from the SP and from the attending. Our notes were also evaluated by 2 faculty members who weren't in the room. After this experience and the feedback given plus the first aid book I didn't think this would be an issue.

In response to pillowhead, I was out of town interviewing and one of the ladies from our academic affairs office called me on the 6th when the scores were released. They were all freaking out and wanted to know what I did wrong. My interview was on the 7th and needless to say I was probably green the whole time.

 

[Elivis]

I had also had an all day mock clinical skills test through my school in which we were taped, and those tapes were then reviewed by faculty. I felt good both during, and after the test. I was sure that I had impressed the standardized patients with how much empathy one man could actually have.

I too got the phone call. Mail results should be in today or Monday. Then at least I will know in exactly which area of the test the NBME feels I am a danger to patients.

 

[maranatha]

Re timing of release: I just got my results in the mail today--took it on 10/31

It seems very fishy that you guys failed in one test location. I really hope you look into this and challenge the results. I feel horrible for what happened to you guys ....Best of luck!

This will be one of the few times we in the medical field can do this, so please exuse me......

Sue! Sue! Sue! Sue! Sue! Sue! Sue! Sue!! Sue!!!! Sue!!!!!!!

[Seriously, I'm not a big fan of litigation, but if you guys got screwed with this, then do it for eveyone else who has to suffer through this stupid thing...]

 

[doc901333]

maybe the official report will be in the mail on monday

 

[acslater22]

I haven't received the official scores yet either. I did just have an interview on Friday and there was no mention of my failing step 2 cs as of yet. I'm sure by the time march rolls around there will be a big fat highlighting of "failed step 2 cs", and the programs will be laughing at the irony of my personal statement's focus on a specific doctor-patient made for tv bonding moment. I'm going to fork over the extra 50 bucks as well as the grand for the recheck and the retest. I took it in Chicago, and I was going to retake it in Atlanta as that was the closest date available...maybe not a good idea. This whole ordeal just makes me feel powerless against the powers to be. If you can't communicate with a patient it should be evident in your 3rd year rotations, and not in a "standardized" test of 15 minute obstacles of rapid fire questioning and empathetic gestures. One of my friends did say that two of his friends failed last year and were applying for surgery and ent, and apparently made it okay, so let's hope this is just a 1000 dollar roadblock.

 

[doc901333]

I am trying for EM so I hope it won't ruin my chances. You are so right about feeling helpless to the powers that be. Keep us posted as to what happens. I'll do the same. good Luck.

 

[jmrck]

Did you get a fail too?
The more I think about this the madder I get. There is no doubt in my mind that I shook hands, draped, and washed hands. I memorized the mneumonics everyone uses and wrote the notes in the format from the first aid book. I know this sounds arrogant, but I don't know how in the hell this happened!
Keep this thread going for anyone else in our shoes. What we need to know is where and when you took the test? The more of us there are the stronger our argument. I don't want this to screw up my shot at the residency program I want and I am sure everyone here feels the same. If you don't want to post a message send me a private message or email me at [email protected].
The NBME office in Philadelphia told me that we should get our official results back the early part of next week.

I haven't gotten my results as yet, but I was worried since we all took it around the same time at the same testing location. I don't know when I will receive the score since it took the NBME 8 wks to give me the CK results. I seem to be on the NBME's super snail mail system, maybe it's their Pony Express section.

Jamrock

 

[nabeya]

man you guys are scaring me with all this talk about failing the CS exam. I took it on Nov 30 in Houston. I hope Houston isn't a place where they fail alot of people. When I left the exam, I didn't feel like crap about the exam or worried that I screwed up so much that I failed, but with all these new posts I'm starting to get a little paranoid.

 

[doc901333]

Don't worry until you have something to worry about. If this was Vegas, the smart money would be on you passing. That's about how I feel about this too. Dumb luck.
I have already sought out legal representation and was told to wait until I received the "official" results in the mail before we determine the next step. I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[Elivis]

I got my results today. Just how did I fail this test? Apparently the patient notes were not what they were looking for. Now, before you ask, I did not fill them out in crayon. I find it unlikely that I have made it this far into school, done as well as I have, and studied the format of their notes and still managed to fail this section.

NBME does keep copies of our notes as I was told directly "in case of litigation." When I asked if there was anyway someone from my school might review the notes to make sure they were in fact mine I was told that "no one outside of NBME is ever allowed to view them."

How am I supposed to improve if I don't know what I did wrong in the first place? I am more mad now than I was when I first found out. Damn.

 

[jmrck]

Yo, I just got my results today also, I took it in Atlanta on the Sept 25th, and I found out that I failed the damn exam. This is really weird because the section they said Iwas weak on, H&P, is what I have been commeneded on constantly on all my rotations. I am soooooo F-ing pissed off right now, it makes no f- sense. I seriously think that something is wrong. I know one of the other members took thier test on the same day and had the same result.

Another F-ing $1000 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[doc901333]

They save them for litigation, but no one is allowed to look at them but the NBME. I guess if it goes to litigation someone else will get to see them.

I still haven't gotten my official results back yet. My school has already said that they will back me in what ever I decide to do and they are encouraging me to "be as aggressive as necessary". When the mail arrives I will let everyone know.

 

[doc901333]

Please email or private message me with some way to contact you either email or phone#. My school is going to back me and the more of us there are the stronger our argument.

 

[nattiv]

goodbye.

 

[doc5499]

I am reading your guys messages in shock, because your stories are identical to mine. I just found out today that I failed Step 2 CS, and I took it on Sept 19th in Atlanta. My Step 1 and 2 scores were 239 and 236, and my strength is my clinical rotations. I did everything that you guys are mentioning, washed my hands before and after, greeted them nicely, and did a pertinent H&P for the chief complaint. I failed because of the data gathering half of the ICE. I was graded WAY low, but I have no clue why. It is almost as if I was never in the room with the patient. There is something not right here.

 

[CueDoc]

DId I miss something or is this date significant? Jan. 1? Also, can you be eligible to scramble but not eligible for the match?

 

[CueDoc]

What are your options is you fail it? Im taking mine the 22nd of this month in ATL, so if i fail I will basically find out like a week before the match.

 

[nabeya]

Has anybody else wondered if the people that are posting about failing the CS exam are the same person posting from different names, especially with the new registration dates and so few total posts? It just seems kind of coincidental that so many people that took the exam during the same time frame in the same location are failing like this. I might be wrong but it if it's true it's making people like myself who weren't really worried about failing when they left the exam feel alot more paranoid and starting to 2nd guess whether they did enough to pass the exam, since people are failing the exam like crazy.
I'm just glad I took it in Houston and not Atlanta. That seems to be a place to avoid like the plague if you're taking the CS exam.

 

[CueDoc]

Has anybody else wondered if the people that are posting about failing the CS exam are the same person posting from different names, especially with the new registration dates and so few total posts? It just seems kind of coincidental that so many people that took the exam during the same time frame in the same location are failing like this. I might be wrong but it if it's true it's making people like myself who weren't really worried about failing when they left the exam feel alot more paranoid and starting to 2nd guess whether they did enough to pass the exam, since people are failing the exam like crazy.
I'm just glad I took it in Houston and not Atlanta. That seems to be a place to avoid like the plague if you're taking the CS exam.

No. This is not the case. I think people just did not post until something of this magnitude came along where they needed to contact other people in the same situation. I actually know personally one of the guys who posted here and he is a class act. I think they are going to find something about the fact that most of the ppl here who failed, took the exam at the same time in the same location. Something just isnt right. 3 (or 4) people all took the exam in atlanta the same week and all failed? Im telling you its some kind of mistake. I have faith in my boy from marshall. This is Justin by the way.
And while Im typing - A girl from my school told me she had a closed head injury patient and did not do a neuro exam and passed- take that home and chew it.

 

[deleted113029]

Do you guys think it could possibly be related to the standards being raised in mid-September and graders/SPs being too critical? I think this is a huge coincidence that many people are failing the first week after the standards were raised.

(and yes, maybe a lot of people who are the same person are posting step 2cs failures. )

 

[Elivis]

Not that it proves anything by saying so, but I am not posting under multiple names. Things had just been good to this point.

As far as the date goes, I was told by my dean that we are technically not allowed to submit a rank order list unless we have passed. Tests taken November 5 to December 31 are reported from January 31 to February 21, the last day to certify your list. So, if you were to take it later than the 31st you would not get your scores back in time. I don't know if this is right, it is just what I was told.

Does anyone know if they have a real headquarters in Philly? I will be heading there for an interview. I have the feeling if I could tell my story to a reasonable person there maybe my exam could get a second look.

 

[acslater22]

I didn't fail my exam in Atlanta, I failed mine in Chicago in the middle of October, so I'm alone in my ineptitude. I had high marks on the English-speaking proficiency and the data-gathering/note-writing part, but failed the communication and interpersonal skills section(I guess I didn't hug any patients). Also, from what I know, the only requirement for step 2 cs is that you have passed it by the time your residency starts. Perhaps she is wrong, but my dean actually tpld me that it's our school policy to have passed it by the last week of March, and that's just a school policy. The only national requirement is to have passed all step exams before your residency starts. And of course, it's no easy task retaking the test within that time frame your dean has in mind, since there are no freaking spots on this monopoly they call step 2 cs.

 

[SLUser11]

Has anybody else wondered if the people that are posting about failing the CS exam are the same person posting from different names, especially with the new registration dates and so few total posts? It just seems kind of coincidental that so many people that took the exam during the same time frame in the same location are failing like this. I might be wrong but it if it's true it's making people like myself who weren't really worried about failing when they left the exam feel alot more paranoid and starting to 2nd guess whether they did enough to pass the exam, since people are failing the exam like crazy.
I'm just glad I took it in Houston and not Atlanta. That seems to be a place to avoid like the plague if you're taking the CS exam.

I thought about this, too. I was drawn in to the thread from SDN's front page...........

It's pretty unusual and extremely unlikely that 3-5 people, all with ridiculously good step 1 and 2 scores (264?), studied appropriately for the test, and managed to fail, all in the same location at the same time. Also, it's unusual that everyone posting in this thread registered in the last 2 months.

If these are legitimate stories, I still don't buy into the conspiracy theory, and I can't believe people are yelling "sue sue sue" without really knowing the details. How do we know these people didn't deserve to fail? Could they have been overly arrogant going into the test because of their high steps 1 and 2, and treated the test like a joke?

Step 2 CS is a nuisance, but it's not a conspiracy to make us spend money.......that's just stupid. It's also a test designed for 95% of US allopathic students to pass, so despite their pleas that they did everything right, there's probably some obvious deficits.

 

[Elivis]

Obvious deficit? Ouch. If I could have someone from the NBME show me exactly how my test places me in the bottom 4% I would shut my mouth and gladly take the test again. As it stands there is no way for that to happen. Everyone has deficits, but I believe that I hide mine well enough not to be placed into the bottom 4%.