Step 2 CS: What does YOUR school think about it?

Discussion in 'Step I' started by puffy1, Mar 17, 2004.

  1. puffy1

    puffy1 Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2000
    Messages:
    341
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've gotten word that the failure rate for Step CS in trial runs thus far has been between 10% to 12%, far higher than the predicted failure rate of 5% proposed by the NBME. In some schools that don't have a standardized patient program, the failure rate has been as high as 18%.

    Also, with only five testing sites in the US, it seems as if it will be extremely difficult to 1) schedule an exam early and 2) retake the exam and obtaining a score before graduation if you fail the first time.

    Most schools (I believe) are requiring that their students pass both components of Step 2 to graduate. Are there any rumblings/concerns that any of you know of at your school about Step 2 CS?
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. jmattwilson

    jmattwilson Slacker Unlimited
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2003
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is quite the outrage at my school and not only amoung students. We have several faculty members who are still fighting hard to get the ******ed test revoked.
     
  4. neilc

    neilc 1K Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2001
    Messages:
    1,289
    Likes Received:
    3
    i still find it amazing that people are calling it a ******ed test...we take a standardized test to evaluate our basic science skills, i think it is entirely appropriate to also evaluate our clinical skills. and, the higher than predicted fail rate shows that there are even more people lacking in these basic skills than anticipated. perhaps this will inspire schools to better prepare students!

    i do agree that the cost and inconvenience are ridiculous. that should be changed. if that is your only problem with the test, than i am on your side 100%. there is no reason it should cost so damn much, and no reason it cannot be given at every US med school a couple times a year at least.

    but, the test is likely here to stay. get the cost down, yes. more locations, absolutely. but, i have yet to hear a reason why physical exam skills deserve to be less evaluated than basic science skills. so what if you think that the PD course your school makes you pass should be enough? your school teaches you pathology as well, but you are required to demonstrate knowledge of that through the USMLE. this test is just the USMLE for another essential skill. if you can't pass the test, it is certainly not the fault of NBME for requiring you to take it.

    learn the skills. pass the test. simple.
     
  5. Stinger86

    Stinger86 Intern year? Ha!
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2003
    Messages:
    828
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Someone in this forum (can't remember who) once suggested that individual residency programs ought to be given the ultimate decision as to whether or not an applicant's Step 2 CS score even matters. Therefore, if one program liked the CS exam (or felt it was accurate) but another program didn't agree with it (or felt it wasn't necessary), then they could both go about it their own way (requiring vs. not requiring).

    I think this is a nifty idea, but probably not one that will ever be utilized
     
  6. doc05

    doc05 2K Member
    15+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,280
    Likes Received:
    989
    there is no score for CS, it is graded pass-fail.

    it isn't up to the residency programs because standards for licensure depend on the NBME.
     
  7. souljah1

    souljah1 Attending
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    6
    The only thing that bothers me about this new test is the cost. The fact that so many people are failing this test is sad. I'd be interested in seeing if certain programs are having more of a problem with this exam compared to others.
     
  8. At my school, not only are we bitter about the cost of the test ($975), but also the airfare needed to fly to LA ($300+). :(
     
  9. Gauss

    Gauss Damnit Jim!
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    97
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    if you are graduating in 2005 you can't take step 3 until you complete both parts of step 2
    that's nbme rule

    the real question is if the AMA is gonna pursue litigation and lock this thing up in courts for a while.

    personally i think attendings should evaluate these qualities
    schools should require their attendings to do this during rotations
    using actors in a test is a cheap cop-out
     
  10. sohsie

    sohsie Member
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    25
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I am currently a first year resident who thank god does not have to deal with the new Step 2 CS exam but who did have to pass a similar OSCE exam to graduate. (Ive already passed Step 3 as well) Besides the cost and travel issues, the main problem is that this exam is not standardized and objective because it depends on an actor's evaluation of how you relate to them.

    Although I did better than average at my school, I got points taken off by many evaluators (actors) because I did not appear to take the exam seriously/ did not have the appropriate disposition for the situation. The problem is that medical students, unlike the evaluators who are actors (although some evaluations are done by people behind a one way mirror), are not actors. I can't pretend that the person in front of me is a real patient when I know full well that they are not real patients. If I could, I would be in Hollywood, not in the hospital everyday.

    Thats my 2 cents
     

Share This Page