I don't know how much research you've done about matching ortho, so forgive me if I am being redundant. One of my best friends is preparing to apply ortho and his application includes being top 5% of our class, he has taken both step 1/2, >10 publications, and preparing to do multiple away's. AND HE'S CONCERNED ABOUT MATCHING (likely applying general surgery as a back up). This is just to put into perspective about who you're competing against. It is the definition of a "blood bath".
Won’t matter. You need to take Step 1. Both of those specialties will expect it, even the DO ortho programs.
At this point, why? You do well in step 2 and it pretty much implies you can get a pass on step 1
Because there are already twice as many qualified candidates that will have crushed Step 2 while also having passed Step 1.
It's a pass/no pass exam. This is not like the old days. I wouldn't care to see a pass/no pass score when there's a high step 2. I would only care if I saw a fail
Filtering out people who don’t have a P on the Step 1 exam is the easiest filter a PD can employ…
i agree wholeheartedly. passing step 1 should be required to be a doctor
You may not care, but that's besides the objective truth that PDs at competitive programs and/or competitive fields do care. They already receive way more applications than they can reasonably review. You're right that it's not like the old days--you don't even need to get a high Step 1 score you literally just need to pass. There's only two reasons to not take the exam: you're not ready and believe there is a high chance of failure, or you plan on applying to the minority of fields/programs that don't particularly care. But for the vast majority that do care, not simply checking the box means your application won't be reviewed.
But we also know they don't judge you for not having step 3 when you apply to fellowship. The entire step 1 thing being pass/fail is completely new and is entirely your assumption that it will be used to filter out. For anyone that even wants to consider DO applicants to begin with, they will likely realize this. There's literally no benefit for any PD anymore to place the step 1 filter
Competitive programs already had certain Step 1 score filters in place. Your argument is that they will drop this filter outright rather than adapting their filter to match the new score report they'll be receiving (P/F). Why? Previously they expected people to take the exam and do well. The expectation is still going to be that they have taken the exam and do well, i.e.: Pass. Like I said previously, they'll gladly reduce the number of applications they have to review. Why review the DO applicants without a Step 1 P and only a Step 2 score when there are 10 other DO applicants that will have a Step 1 P and good Step 2 Scores to make themselves comparable to their MD counterparts?
NBOME prints money by having a separate licensing series and having AOA schools require their students to pass COMLEX 1 and 2. If you got rid of COMLEX, you're getting rid of millions of dollars in revenue lining their pockets. They simply do not care how much money students spend. They literally just increased it another $20 to make it like $50 more expensive than Step 1 despite it being the inferior exam. They really do not care.
But why? Why would you postulate DO schools to stop requiring COMLEX and then say it's a better idea to have it? The separate but equal narrative doesn't work. Actual competition would look like AOA schools allowing students to choose which licensing pathway benchmarks to meet: USMLE or COMLEX. But that isn't their goal.
My program does… and so does every other program where I have talked with other residents who know how their programs screen.
Board certification is a completely separate issue. The COMLEX is not competition for the USMLE… despite what John Gimpel may claim.
Pass/Fail filter is useless as it doesn't help stratification. It only helps in knowing if you passed or had to retake the test. This is different than a scored exam that helps for stratification
Isn’t this implying COMLEX is easier….
You realize the NBOME is literally the only game in town for DOs right… they could charge us whatever they wanted because as it currently stands we legally need COMLEX to practice medicine.
COMLEX is easier
I believe that was @hellosnd ‘s point. No one should say “well I don’t want to prepare for STEP” and then support the notion that COMLEX is a comparable demonstration of competency.
I agree
Idk if that’s an advantage, more so a HUGE disservice producing less qualified physicians (argument can be have about performance on tests vs competence of physician)
Guess I should drop out of school now
You can get board certified through NBME or NBOME. You can take the steps and get licensed through them. You're mixing things and also not correct about some of them
It only states they are different tests. Easier is subjective. I did better on step as a percentile due to no OMM. UWorld is a tool designed for step instead of level. If i said MDs don't need to do comquest does it imply the step is easier?
I’m not mixing things. I know exactly how DOs can and can’t be boarded or licensed. The USMLE and COMLEX are licensing examinations and not actually boards, despite commonly being referred to as such. It’s a catch 22, DOs CAN be licensed through the USMLE in all bit 6 states, but they CANNOT graduate medical school without passing COMLEX
Lmfao… I tap out
The filter is strictly to lower number of apps. My current program and TY program use it. Anything that gets your numbers down quickly and easily means you can spend time actually reviewing the apps you have left.
Delete this lol
www.nbome.org
DOs are forced to take levels 1&2 to graduate. This is a coca requirement. We can only get a choice about level 3 vs step 3 and only if you take the first two steps. And a DO getting licensed through NBME may run into problems in like 7 states. So it’s not like NBME is really a competitor for NBOME o vice versa here.
No, that's not how you should interpret these statistics. That's not what an SEM/SEE means, nor how it should be interpreted. It's a common misconception. Even the USMLE's explanation is lacking.
I think this is likely due from students taking STEP knowing they probably won't pass, but take to see if they can luck into a pass. There isn't really a penalty, because they can just not report it.
That's certainly a reasonable explanation. Perhaps they simply don't study very hard because they assume they will fail. Or, they are so burned out from COMLEX studying that they can't study effectively for USMLE (assuming that the content is different). But there are lots of possible explanations - they could ace the OMM part of COMLEX and thus pass, but then that won't help them on USMLE. Or, the way COMLEX and USMLE convert raw to scaled scores could be different - that's potentially a big problem because COMLEX (theoretically) defines the mean at 500, whereas USMLE (theoretically) states that scores show equivalent performance over time. Both of those positions are problematic - first the COMLEX average isn't 500, and second since the USMLE keeps raising the minimum pass it implies that they are "raising the bar" over time - for unclear reasons.
You can pretty easily brute force a comlex pass studying only for step. Omm is like 10-15% of the test so it can def boost you if you're weak, but I completely ignored it and easily passed both comlex and step. But yeah the opposite is absolutely true, it's free points on comlex that won't help you on step at all
Word. I was always below 20-50th percentile on omm and was above 600 on every comlex. Omm just never clicked and it doesn’t have to to comfortably pass any comlex.
This is also why Im not sure everyone would like getting rid of COMLEX for STEP and a OMM comat-like test. I think its the worst of both worlds (from a just trying to pass perspective), just to go from taking 15 hours of boards to 10. Be careful what you wish for.
Yeah if comlex was an omm only test I would've failed lmao
