Step 3 and licensing/board certification

[Apoplexy__]

I'll be taking USMLE Steps 1-3 and will be doing ACGME residencies and fellowships. Will this allow me to be licensed solely by the MD licensing bodies of states that have split licensing bodies?

Will this allow me to abandon AOA board certification + CME in favor of AMA board certification + CME?

Thanks.

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[dozitgetchahi]

This seems to vary somewhat by state.

The USMLE/COMLEX steps are for medical licensing. In some (but not all) states, DOs can take USMLE steps 1-3 and be fully licensed.

Your board certification is determined by the type of residency (ACGME or AOA) you attended. If you went ACGME, you do ACGME board cert and ACGME CME.

 

[ortnakas]

From what I understand, DOs need to take COMLEX Levels 1-3 to be fully licensed. USMLE Steps 1-3 are optional (but potentially wise depending on your residency goals). Your board certification is independent of your COMLEX/USMLE.

 

[Apoplexy__]

Thanks guys.

I'm particularly interested in the downfalls of being MD licensed then. In those states that have separate licensing bodies (e.g. Arizona, Florida, California off the top of my head), what potential problems would arise from you choosing the MD licensing board (e.g. limited transferability across states?)

Conversely, are there any advantages of being DO-licensed over being MD-licensed as a DO?

 

[meliora27]

Just an FYI, but in order to to take USMLE Step 3, you will have to take USMLE Step 2 CS (the clinical part with the standardized patients).

 

[Apoplexy__]

Just an FYI, but in order to to take USMLE Step 3, you will have to take USMLE Step 2 CS (the clinical part with the standardized patients).

Thanks. I already have.

 

[kenjixshadow]

Thanks. I already have.

I'm still patiently waiting for that CS experience thread in Step II sub-forum Bee.

 

[group_theory]

Thanks guys.

I'm particularly interested in the downfalls of being MD licensed then. In those states that have separate licensing bodies (e.g. Arizona, Florida, California off the top of my head), what potential problems would arise from you choosing the MD licensing board (e.g. limited transferability across states?)

Conversely, are there any advantages of being DO-licensed over being MD-licensed as a DO?

Simple, as a DO, you cannot be licensed by the MD board if there is a separate DO board in the state. So for Arizona, Florida, and California, the state board of osteopathic medicine will be your state agency. The MD state board will not (and can not by law) give you a license.

And if you do not finish COMLEX, you cannot get licensed in Florida or California. They do not accept USMLE for licensure.

And if you do an ACGME residency (and don't do an AOA internship or get your ACGME PGY1 approved via Res 42), then you cannot practice in Florida (which requires an AOA PGY1 year)


Board certification is completely independent from licensure (it's confusing to medical students since medical students refer to COMLEX/USMLE as "the boards" but in general that's not what people are talking about when they say they are board-certified). Who you get board certified by has nothing to do with whether you take USMLE or COMLEX

If you do an AOA residency, you take the AOA BOS exam and are board certified through the AOA. If you do an ACGME residency, you take an ABMS member board certification exam and are boarded through the ABMS member board. Whether or not you completed USMLE or COMLEX is immaterial. For example, neither the American Board of Internal Medicine (ABIM) nor American Board of Pediatrics (ABP) did not ask if I took the USMLE or COMLEX. They just wanted to know if I hold a state license.

 

[hallowmann]

Licensure does not equal board certified and all that other jazz that group_theory said in their comprehensive post.

You're a DO. You can only be licensed by a state board that licenses DOs. Take COMLEX Level 3 so you can get licensed in any state (barring an AOA intern year requirement).

Feel free to be board certified by whichever specialty board you're eligible for, but that doesn't change your licensure.

If it makes you feel any better, most people mainly care about your board certification. Licensure is just a check box that you have to fulfill to legally practice medicine in a state.

 

[group_theory]

Will this allow me to abandon AOA board certification + CME in favor of AMA board certification + CME?

Thanks.

As a follow-up (to answer this part of your original question)

Since you mentioned Arizona, California, and Florida

If you want to practice in Arizona, you will need 40 CME hrs every 2 years when renewing license, 12 hrs of which must be AOA 1A CME hrs.
If you want to practice in California, you will need 150 CME hrs every 3 hrs when renewing license, 60 hrs of which must be AOA (either 1-A or 1-B) CME hrs
If you want to practice in Florida, you will need 40 CME hrs every 2 years when renewing license, 20 hrs of which must be AOA 1A CME hrs

Doesn't matter if you are board certified via ABMS, you still need to meet those requirements if you want to renew your license.

If you are boarded through AOA, not only do you need to meet those requirements, but you need to meet the AOA CME requirements to remain a member in good standing with the AOA (a requirement for maintaining AOA board certification). So you will need 150 AOA CME hrs every 3 hrs to maintain AOA membership, 30 hrs of which must be AOA 1-A. DOs with AOA board certification who do not meet those requirements may lose AOA membership, and as a result, will lose AOA board certification

For DOs who are ABMS certified, there are no consequences for losing AOA membership. (except not having to pay AOA dues, or having to worry about the 150 hrs/3 yr rule)

 

[Apoplexy__]

Great stuff guys, thanks a lot. Very informative.

Final question: For the few countries that do not recognize DOs as practicing physicians, is there any time limit after which your USMLE Steps 1-3 that would qualify you to practice would expire?

 

[hallowmann]

Great stuff guys, thanks a lot. Very informative.

Final question: For the few countries that do not recognize DOs as practicing physicians, is there any time limit after which your USMLE Steps 1-3 that would qualify you to practice would expire?

What d0 you mean qualify you for practice in other countries? I'm sure its very country-specific, but I would be very surprised if after completing all the steps in a normal timeline (~3 yrs), completing an ACGME residency, and becoming board certified you'd be unable to practice based on the age of your Step scores (I mean its not like you can take the Steps a second time if you pass).

Also, I'm a little confused, if the DO degree isn't recognized in a specific country, that usually means a DO can't practice medicine in that country. If the degree is recognized, they may additionally require things like the USMLE/ACGME residency from DOs, but its not like those things would suddenly make the degree itself recognized (unless its in one of those countries that hasn't made an official statement about the DO degree one way or the other). Again, its all country-specific, so you really need to see what requirements the specific country's medical board has.

As far as practicing with aid organizations, you can do that (in most countries) as long as you're licensed in your home country (i.e. the US), so you shouldn't have any problems in that regard unless you let your licensure lapse or something (don't let that happen).

 

[Apoplexy__]

What d0 you mean qualify you for practice in other countries?

I'm referencing the last post in this thread, regarding the reasons to take USMLE Step 3. Might only be what you're referring to as far as countries that don't have a statement about DOs one way or another.