Step I cutoff

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Atlas

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When programs say they'd like to see at least an 80 on Step I, does that mean you have a better chance at getting an interview or does that mean that's their cutoff for the dumpster???

Thanks
 
Atlas said:
When programs say they'd like to see at least an 80 on Step I, does that mean you have a better chance at getting an interview or does that mean that's their cutoff for the dumpster???

Thanks

80? That's their cutoff for wiping their ass with your app. 100 is the cutoff for the dumpster.
 
(nicedream) said:
80? That's their cutoff for wiping their ass with your app. 100 is the cutoff for the dumpster.

Nice...that's charming! 🙄
 
(nicedream) said:
Well, c'mon, 80? That's far from even passing.

I think Atlas was referring to the 2 digit score.
 
80 definitely is referring to the two-digit score here. a two-digit score of 75 is passing, which correlates to a 182. My guess is that a two-digit score of 80 would be somewhere in the 190's as a three-digit step I score. I have heard that when many schools report these cutoffs, they actually will not even look at your application unless you have this cutoff score. Whether or not you get an interview is probably dependent on other factors that program is looking for. Hope that helps.
 
Yep, I can tell you from personal experience that there are cut-offs in place at some programs. I already received one rejection saying that I didn't meet their criteria and upon further inquiry was told that my Step 1 score didn't meet their cut-off. Fortunately, the program was nice enought to send me a rejection email rather than just leave me hanging for months.

The program is a not well-known and isn't particularly strong according to the IM program director at my school. Their cut-off is probably in place because their ABIM scores are falling and they're implementing desparate measures to get them back up. So there are different reasons for cut-offs. Such programs may miss out on quality applicants by focusing on scores too much (or at least that's what I'm telling myself).
 
Roadrunner said:
Yep, I can tell you from personal experience that there are cut-offs in place at some programs. I already received one rejection saying that I didn't meet their criteria and upon further inquiry was told that my Step 1 score didn't meet their cut-off. Fortunately, the program was nice enought to send me a rejection email rather than just leave me hanging for months.

The program is a not well-known and isn't particularly strong according to the IM program director at my school. Their cut-off is probably in place because their ABIM scores are falling and they're implementing desparate measures to get them back up. So there are different reasons for cut-offs. Such programs may miss out on quality applicants by focusing on scores too much (or at least that's what I'm telling myself).

That sucks. I'm sorry to hear that. Good luck!
 
Roadrunner said:
Yep, I can tell you from personal experience that there are cut-offs in place at some programs. I already received one rejection saying that I didn't meet their criteria and upon further inquiry was told that my Step 1 score didn't meet their cut-off. Fortunately, the program was nice enought to send me a rejection email rather than just leave me hanging for months.

The program is a not well-known and isn't particularly strong according to the IM program director at my school. Their cut-off is probably in place because their ABIM scores are falling and they're implementing desparate measures to get them back up. So there are different reasons for cut-offs. Such programs may miss out on quality applicants by focusing on scores too much (or at least that's what I'm telling myself).


I know what you mean...this cut-off is SUCH BS...I just came back from doing a sub-I at a top 10 program in the nation (went there NOT to get a residency spot, but for the LOR), and I worked WITH the ass't PD...he thought I had GREAT knowledge, H & P skills, accutate dx, and all that good stuff, and actually started to ask me about whether I would like to come to his program (recruitment stuff)...THEN....

he found out my STEP 1 and 2 scores....(haven't cracked 200 on EITHER since I can't take a test to save my life....biggest achilles heel! 😡 😡 😡 😡 😡 )....let me tell you....he BACKTRACKED his "recruitment efforts" so fast, it was as if he was trying to avoid a stalker!! :laugh: :laugh:

The messed up part is that he KNOWS what kind of intern/resident I'm gonna be....heck, he's seen me work....but still... 🙁 🙁 🙁

oh well...the heel takes another (deeper) cut....
 
FYI
I feel your pain. I am so bad at taking tests it is almost funny. I have great clinical scores but my standardized test scores really blow === what programs have you heard about having stringent cutoffs???




medlaw06 said:
I know what you mean...this cut-off is SUCH BS...I just came back from doing a sub-I at a top 10 program in the nation (went there NOT to get a residency spot, but for the LOR), and I worked WITH the ass't PD...he thought I had GREAT knowledge, H & P skills, accutate dx, and all that good stuff, and actually started to ask me about whether I would like to come to his program (recruitment stuff)...THEN....

he found out my STEP 1 and 2 scores....(haven't cracked 200 on EITHER since I can't take a test to save my life....biggest achilles heel! 😡 😡 😡 😡 😡 )....let me tell you....he BACKTRACKED his "recruitment efforts" so fast, it was as if he was trying to avoid a stalker!! :laugh: :laugh:

The messed up part is that he KNOWS what kind of intern/resident I'm gonna be....heck, he's seen me work....but still... 🙁 🙁 🙁

oh well...the heel takes another (deeper) cut....
 
spitfire said:
FYI
I feel your pain. I am so bad at taking tests it is almost funny. I have great clinical scores but my standardized test scores really blow === what programs have you heard about having stringent cutoffs???

What are the cutoffs for top/middle tier schools?
 
My question is this: if a program is willing to toss your application in the trash just because of some test number on a page (especially if you've rotated with them and have done a good job) then why would you want that sort of set up anyway? Sounds like you are better off without them.
 
Ice-1 said:
My question is this: if a program is willing to toss your application in the trash just because of some test number on a page (especially if you've rotated with them and have done a good job) then why would you want that sort of set up anyway? Sounds like you are better off without them.

Nice use of rationalization. And, how dare a program value academic achievement!
 
Ice-1 said:
My question is this: if a program is willing to toss your application in the trash just because of some test number on a page (especially if you've rotated with them and have done a good job) then why would you want that sort of set up anyway? Sounds like you are better off without them.

yeah, with that rationale, you are basically saying that you are "better off without" 90% of the programs in the country. its unfortunate, but true.
 
WatchingWaiting said:
Nice use of rationalization. And, how dare a program value academic achievement!

since when is scoring high on standardized tests have any correlation with academic achievement....Ted Bundee apparently had the IQ of the top 10%, and who would have thought a serial killer would score high on exams...
 
InternalWhizzzz said:
since when is scoring high on standardized tests have any correlation with academic achievement....Ted Bundee apparently had the IQ of the top 10%, and who would have thought a serial killer would score high on exams...

Nice logic, Sherlock. I guess the SAT, MCAT, GRE, LSAT, DAT, GMAT, usmle exams, board certification exams, etc. are just made up by the man to antagonize people who "don't know how to take standardized tests."
 
WatchingWaiting said:
Nice logic, Sherlock. I guess the SAT, MCAT, GRE, LSAT, DAT, GMAT, usmle exams, board certification exams, etc. are just made up by the man to antagonize people who "don't know how to take standardized tests."
Doing well on a standardized test shows that you do well on standardized tests. It doesn't show how well you apply that knowledge, how good your exam is, or how well you work with others. It takes more than book knowledge to be a great doc.
 
orientedtoself said:
Doing well on a standardized test shows that you do well on standardized tests. It doesn't show how well you apply that knowledge, how good your exam is, or how well you work with others. It takes more than book knowledge to be a great doc.
So many words, so little time....

In my program, recommended means just that. If I were to have an especially good year, my position might be stronger, but primary care recruiting is way off the last 5-6 years, so I've not been so lucky.

Doing well on standardized tests means you'll only have the knowlege hurdle when it comes time to take certifying exams. First time pass rate is both an internal and external quality indicator, so ability to take tests has some merit.

Academic Medicine published a nice piece about 3 or 4 years ago on the subject. Score on Step I has no predictive value for how well one will do in residency, Step II a weak relationship. Step III is helpful, of course, but by then most AMG's have shown their soft underbelly, if one exists. I do not believe there is any one predictor of how well an applicant will do. If I have two roughly equal applicants (in a global sense), but one has a step ii of 240, the other 190, you can guess which way the rank order list will read in Feb. You'd be surprised how many apps I get that have an initial failing score on step i. You can bet the farm most of those people will get a decent position somwhere, perhaps not their 1st or 2nd choice, but 5 or 6.

Finally, look at how many US grads are applying to IM programs, how many FMG's are getting positions, and how many unfilled positions there are each year. I'd much rather have a below average, hardworking, well-adjusted USMG than an FMG with stellar scores and marginal, if any, meaningful US experience.Academic Medicine Academic Medicine Academic Medicine
 
forncroj said:
So many words, so little time....

In my program, recommended means just that. If I were to have an especially good year, my position might be stronger, but primary care recruiting is way off the last 5-6 years, so I've not been so lucky.

Doing well on standardized tests means you'll only have the knowlege hurdle when it comes time to take certifying exams. First time pass rate is both an internal and external quality indicator, so ability to take tests has some merit.

Academic Medicine published a nice piece about 3 or 4 years ago on the subject. Score on Step I has no predictive value for how well one will do in residency, Step II a weak relationship. Step III is helpful, of course, but by then most AMG's have shown their soft underbelly, if one exists. I do not believe there is any one predictor of how well an applicant will do. If I have two roughly equal applicants (in a global sense), but one has a step ii of 240, the other 190, you can guess which way the rank order list will read in Feb. You'd be surprised how many apps I get that have an initial failing score on step i. You can bet the farm most of those people will get a decent position somwhere, perhaps not their 1st or 2nd choice, but 5 or 6.

Finally, look at how many US grads are applying to IM programs, how many FMG's are getting positions, and how many unfilled positions there are each year. I'd much rather have a below average, hardworking, well-adjusted USMG than an FMG with stellar scores and marginal, if any, meaningful US experience.Academic Medicine Academic Medicine Academic Medicine


Do you have a citation for this article or a more specific month or year of publication?
 
Ice-1 said:
Do you have a citation for this article or a more specific month or year of publication?
First, apologies for quoting literature without first reviewing the source. I overstated the findings.

Academic Medicine
Volume 78(1), January 2003, p 90–95
"For our study, the largest amount of variance accounted for by UME [Undergraduate Medical Education] performance was 24%, suggesting that other factors besides basic science GPA, clinical GPA, and USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 scores contributed to successful performance in the first year of residency."

Volume 78(9), September 2003, pp 853
"Multiple linear regression analysis included each
of the significant first-order correlates of
PGY-l scores as possible predictors of
PGY-l scores. In this analysis, GPA and
MSTP graduation—but not Step 1
scores, Step 2 scores, or AOA election—
were significant independent predictors
of PGY-l performance; the factors
in this model accounted for only
12% of the total variance in composite
PGY-l score among our graduates."

Volume 78(9), September 2003, pp 853-854
"UME performance indicators such as
GPAs and board scores are not strong
predictors of how well graduates will
perform as interns..."


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