Stigma associated with *gunner*-ism

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Hey, there's nothing wrong with aiming for the bullseye as long as you're not [accidently] shooting your peers along the way (unless your goal is management :=). I'd rather see my peers shooting for the top, than see them sitting back and hoping that everything will magically work out. I've been part of too many teams where people sit back and say nothing because they don't want to make waves. Problem is that they generally also DO NOTHING because they don't want to make waves. I've seen the results of those teams, and believe me, it's not the level of work you'd want if your life was on the line! And yes, these teams are in some well respected "workplaces". Discuss things thoroughly; raise questions; double check your own work; be open-minded to everything and everyone; be a mentor and teacher; let each team member show their strengths, however weak they might be. Do this and you will likely succeed, and be well liked. Obviously, this discussion sounds a bit out of place for a classroom environment, but I've noticed that you're classroom character will eventually turn into your workplace character - trust me. Good luck.
 
blueperson said:
I was in a class once where the teacher put his hand up as a "stop" and told the person to let someone else answer. Then, the whole class was silent in shock until simultaneously 7 people answered his question! People had just started sitting back/not participating/tuning out because this one guy blurted everything like he wanted to answer first. The rest of the class wasn't "willing to compete" which is what this person wanted.

I just thought it was an interesting phenomenon to observe. 🙄


great point; i'm sure that's true quite often. Blurting out answers quickly is clearly just to show off. Answering the questions when no one else does is fascilitating the class interaction. There's a big difference and I don't buy the testing one's self theory for one second..
 
DrYo12 said:
If you don't care and aren't bothered by other's opinions, do whatever you feel like. If you want people to like you, don't be surprised if they don't when you act this way....

Also, remember that the point in asking the question was to get you to think about the material in the specific way that the professor was trying to convey, not necessarily to get an answer. The prof will ask the class a question and most often, they want the opportunity to explain the concept further rather than somebody quickly answering and then moving on.
Thank you DrYo12, those are both really good thoughts.
 
Ross434 said:
Maybe i feel the need to speak up because i want to prove to people that i know the answers and have a firm grasp of the material? because those are the things i value highly in my life right now? Its not that i need approval, its that it seems like a possible way to demonstrate that i am interested.

Actually, I think it's more likely that you do need approval. You repeatedly demonstrate your mastery of the material in front of your entire class to validate the hours/energy you put into your studies. If this was not the case you would be content to demonstrate your abilities to your professors through your exam performance. I also believe demonstrating your interest in the material may be better accomplished by visiting your profs during their office hours and holding discussions about the material that explore the material more deeply than it is covered in class.

What you have done is build up a self-image based on your intellectual superiority over your peers. Whether that is the case or not, you are clearly not entirely comfortable in this role, as you devise public ways to reinforce this superior self-image in your mind. Deny your insecurities all you want, but we all know that without them you would not be compulsively answering questions that you do not find to be challenging, and you would not have posted on this board looking for validation of your actions.

Gunner, seek help.
 
Wanting to be recognized as smart has a lot less to do with my self image issues as it does with trying to attract out the other like, 5 smart people on the campus. Maybe if someone sees. wow that person knows his stuff. they'll be more interested in talking to me. I certainly select my friends based on how intelligent and dedicated to academics they are. (i dont hang out with idiots and slackers).

trying to look like a know-it-all in class is worth a lot of money later when struggling students come to you for tutoring.
 
Ross434 said:
The smartest people here is me. seriously. my school sends like 2 people to med school (out of a class of 2500) per year, and our 4 year grad rate is below 15%. Its a shame to see people missing the opportunity to formulate their knowledge verbally and receive feedback on their ideas from the professor .. that would be the point of in class interaction, and, if i were paying for my education, i would want to do that to get the most out of it.

this is seriously sounding like a troll...otherwise I don't think people would come off sounding so arrogant and cocky
 
Ross434 said:
but when nobody answers the question after the prof asks like 3 times, they just look like total brickheads. (regardless of whether they are or not)
that's contradictory to a previous post; you said you wait 5 sec to answer to give people an opportunity to answer...now you allow the prof to ask 3 times?
 
Psycho Doctor said:
that's contradictory to a previous post; you said you wait 5 sec to answer to give people an opportunity to answer...now you allow the prof to ask 3 times?

maybe it was a different instance! who knows! geez. its not like i have some formula that i use or something,
 
Ross434 said:
the dean of admissions came to my house 100 miles away from the school to meet with my family on a friday night when i was looking at colleges in my senior year. They made it clear they would do whatever to get me to go there.

why? seriously what's so special aboput you? what school? National Merit winner? recruited athelete? find the cure to cancer?

where else did you apply?
 
Psycho Doctor said:
why? seriously what's so special aboput you? what school? National Merit winner? recruited athelete? find the cure to cancer?

where else did you apply?

it was the only place i applied. i had a huge number of AP's, national merit, top 5% of private prep school. I'm one of 3 national merit students at this college.

Im not saying im extraordinary gifted, especially compared to you guys, but its a little different when comparing to my school.
 
Birdyman said:
Ross434. Before you enter the real world (i.e., residency, job, etc.), you'd better come to grips on why you feel compelled to speak up so often. If it's due to a complex of some sort, then get over it - you will be hated by your peers, and ultimately they will hinder your success. If you do it because you truly work with incompetent people, then by all means, take the lead IF NECCESSARY ... this world needs things to be done right ... but remember that your incompetent peers will still try to hinder your success.

I found that the best way to handle things is to not speak out too often. Carry things outside "the boardroom" with those who don't seem to get it. "Teaching" those who don't understand is defintely more rewarding for everyone (including yourself) in the long run. You'll find that your peers will tend to protect you rather than hurt you. I been there and done it, and it works. You remember ... "speak softly and carry a big stick". Sorry, that this isn't outside the boardroom.

great advice!! 👍
 
Ross434 said:
it was the only place i applied. i had a huge number of AP's, national merit, top 5% of private prep school. I'm one of 3 national merit students at this college.

Im not saying im extraordinary gifted, especially compared to you guys, but its a little different when comparing to my school.

well since you seem like you need recognition and think you are so intelligent, why didn't you apply to a top 10 school? Being a National Merit student is terrific but it doesn't necessarily make you the smartest one at your school. You'll get much further in life with a little humility and if you try to assist others less fortunate than you (in intelligence and otherwise) rathe rthan by boasting about your attributes. try tutoring for free, it may be an eye-opening experience for you.
 
Psycho Doctor said:
well since you seem like you need recognition and think you are so intelligent, why didn't you apply to a top 10 school? Being a National Merit student is terrific but it doesn't necessarily make you the smartest one at your school. You'll get much further in life with a little humility and if you try to assist others less fortunate than you (in intelligence and otherwise) rathe rthan by boasting about your attributes. try tutoring for free, it may be an eye-opening experience for you.

I didnt apply to a top school because i was being PAID to go to this one. Im strongly motivated by money, hence, become a doctor? I have other eye opening experiences to justify not taking the $80/week hit from tutoring for free. And dont get on my case because i want money. Its not a crime, and it doesnt mean my life is messed up, and it doesnt mean i wont be successful.
 
If you are strongly motivated by money, then boy are u in the wrong field. doctors are not the top earners anymore. u sound like a troll cause what college has a 15% pass rate?

Ross434 said:
I didnt apply to a top school because i was being PAID to go to this one. Im strongly motivated by money, hence, become a doctor? I have other eye opening experiences to justify not taking the $80/week hit from tutoring for free. And dont get on my case because i want money. Its not a crime, and it doesnt mean my life is messed up, and it doesnt mean i wont be successful.
 
Rendar5 said:
If you are strongly motivated by money, then boy are u in the wrong field. doctors are not the top earners anymore. u sound like a troll cause what college has a 15% pass rate?

i missed the part about 15% pass rate; where did that get said?
 
Rendar5 said:
If you are strongly motivated by money, then boy are u in the wrong field. doctors are not the top earners anymore. u sound like a troll cause what college has a 15% pass rate?

Here we go again. Sorry. I was brought up in a different kind of community than you, apparently. Most of my classmates' parents were doctors, and it takes more than 2 hands to count the number of doctors i know that make more than 400k. Believe me. my college has less than 15% 4 year graduation rate. The average student takes 7 years to graduate. Our 8 year rate is much higher (close to 75%).
 
Ross434 said:
Here we go again. Sorry. I was brought up in a different kind of community than you, apparently. Most of my classmates' parents were doctors, and it takes more than 2 hands to count the number of doctors i know that make more than 400k. Believe me. my college has less than 15% 4 year graduation rate. The average student takes 7 years to graduate. Our 8 year rate is much higher (close to 85%).

You are almost definitely a troll. However if you really not, and are truly motivated for the money, I note that lawyers and investment bankers have much shorter educational paths and don't have to do a long period of low-paying internship and residency afterwards. Thus if you figure in the higher educational costs, late career start and time value of money, even the well paid doctors you know are lagging significantly behind where they could have been...
 
Law2Doc said:
You are almost definitely a troll. However if you really not, and are truly motivated for the money, I note that lawyers and investment bankers have much shorter educational paths and don't have to do a long period of low-paying internship and residency afterwards. Thus if you figure in the higher educational costs, late career start and time value of money, even the well paid doctors you know are lagging significantly behind where they could have been...

Yeah but i have a near photographic memory (ie: med school success) and i dont want to deal with the bs of going into business or law when i love science. You dont need to point out average and max earnings. I know those for just about every profession that earns in the top 5% of incomes. I personally know a couple of investment managers that are making over 10 million / year. Does that mean i can easily get into that field? No. I think my aptitude for science and learning will make medical school fun and interesting while being the best use of my talents.
 
Ross434 said:
Yeah but i have a near photographic memory (ie: med school success)

really... And you go to class to give the photographs in your brain a sound track? I call, troll who doesn't realize he's/she's a troll.

If you get into med school or at some point enter the real world, prepare to have your ego squished like a stinkbug.
 
Reckoning said:
really... And you go to class to give the photographs in your brain a sound track? I call, troll who doesn't realize he's/she's a troll.

If you get into med school or at some point enter the real world, prepare to have your ego squished like a stinkbug.

Whoa!, somehow you are equating being able to easily memorize facts with the idea of being able to instantly understand connections between concepts. Its a little different. I go to class because its fun for me, to learn, and to reinforce concepts and ideas. Memorizing atomic structures or locations of bones is a MUCH different process than attempting to understand complicated concepts and synthesizing your views and accumulated knowledge.

Oh yeah, maybe if you had a true photographic memory you would just memorize everything about the world. You wouldnt even have to go to school, would you? Yeah, everything would just work out. Geez, how shortsighted.
 
Ross434 said:
Wanting to be recognized as smart has a lot less to do with my self image issues as it does with trying to attract out the other like, 5 smart people on the campus. Maybe if someone sees. wow that person knows his stuff. they'll be more interested in talking to me. I certainly select my friends based on how intelligent and dedicated to academics they are. (i dont hang out with idiots and slackers).
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Yeah, okay. I'm reasonably intelligent, and you're about the last person I'd seek out to befriend. I have plenty of smart friends, but they don't constantly let you know about it. Some of them are plenty smarter than me, and I only realize this when I ask about test scores or find out who won scholarships.
 
Ross434 said:
I didnt apply to a top school because i was being PAID to go to this one. Im strongly motivated by money, hence, become a doctor? I have other eye opening experiences to justify not taking the $80/week hit from tutoring for free. And dont get on my case because i want money. Its not a crime, and it doesnt mean my life is messed up, and it doesnt mean i wont be successful.
Never mind, folks. We've got one of these on our hands:

troll.jpg


aka:

0018-0309-2515-5810_SM.jpg
 
Ross434 said:
Oh yeah, maybe if you had a true photographic memory you would just memorize everything about the world. You wouldnt even have to go to school, would you? Yeah, everything would just work out. Geez, how shortsighted.

I do have a photographic memory, thank you very much. And an 11 inch detachable penis.

Tell that to your close, personal investment manager friend who makes 8 gagillion dollars a year (who is also by the way your way hot, buxom girlfriend from Niagara Falls).
 
I have a pornographic memory. Does that count?
 
liverotcod said:
I have a pornographic memory. Does that count?

See. Now, that I respect. Livercod, you unlike our furry, pink troll are going to go far in life. Where that is exactly I don't know. But it will be very, very far.
 
and which college is this, huh? u shouldn't give out spurious details w/o being able to name the school

Ross434 said:
Here we go again. Sorry. I was brought up in a different kind of community than you, apparently. Most of my classmates' parents were doctors, and it takes more than 2 hands to count the number of doctors i know that make more than 400k. Believe me. my college has less than 15% 4 year graduation rate. The average student takes 7 years to graduate. Our 8 year rate is much higher (close to 75%).
 
MWillie said:
Does answering the questions improve your education any?

might help you get good recommendations in big classes. not to say you should go overboard, but its good to have a strong presence in lecture. all my professors have appreciated participation and i know they put this as a good quality in recs. i didn't like to be a snotty know-it-all, but i feel bad when nobody answers the professor's questions, so i tended to pipe up a lot. i'm NOT an auditory learner, so participating actually helps me to stay focused and get my questions answered.
 
Ross434 said:
Wanting to be recognized as smart has a lot less to do with my self image issues as it does with trying to attract out the other like, 5 smart people on the campus. Maybe if someone sees. wow that person knows his stuff. they'll be more interested in talking to me. I certainly select my friends based on how intelligent and dedicated to academics they are. (i dont hang out with idiots and slackers).

trying to look like a know-it-all in class is worth a lot of money later when struggling students come to you for tutoring.

I just a few things I want to mention, because I'm sincerely concerned about you...
1. Many of the "smartest" people I know will occasionally participate in class or choose not to participate at all. However, these are also some of the kindest people I know and spend time talking with and getting to know classmates before/after class. That is a way you could also find the people you wish to associate with. However, they go one step further and they form study groups (even if they know the material) because they feel that there is always something that they can learn from others not to mention friendships forged, academic or work connections that could be used, etc. By not truly interacting with your classmates you are missing opportunities. Try not to think in terms of talking a lot in class so that people will seek you out.
2. Try listening to others.
a.In many aspects of life, there are no "right" answers. In fact, in science, remember, what we study now is what is understood at this time. There are very few laws in science, particularly life science. Rather, there are hypotheses, etc. At one time bleeding people was the answer. At one time giving antibiotics to people with colds for piece of mind was the answer. Many times there are several opinions, not one answer. For example, not that long ago, some dermatologists prescribed oral antibiotics for acne; others prescribed fish oil supplements with the thought that the skin would slow its production of oil. Same problem: acne. Answer: varying opinions/approaches.
b. Knowing the "right" answers will not help in dealing with grieving families, etc., and other situational experiences when one needs not only scientific knowledge but also interpersonal skills that are so important for any professional, including medical professionals. Listen to others and learn from them how they interact with others and notice how they make others feel. Right now you are focusing on answers in class but being able to recall information is only one skill of many you will need as a physician.
c. Listen for the sake of listening. One day you will be wrong. Nobody can be 100% correct 100% of the time. If you make a diagnosis or treatment decision and someone else thinks you might be making a mistake, listen. They might be correct and save a patient physical and mental suffering, money, etc.
3. Now this isn't concerning you, but your fellow students. You mention that you want to earn money by helping struggling students. However, you might be a portion of the problem. By answering the questions, the professor might assume that the class might be understanding the concept, and not realize that others "don't get" it. The silence sometimes indicates that the professor needs to explain something again, in a different way, use a different technique like a visual aid, etc. You are not allowing for that education to happen. Also, auditory learners learn better by hearing material - just like you learn by reading with photographic memory. Give those learners (who are every bit as smart but learn it a differnet way) to absorb the material as well by pausing or giving others a chance to answer in their own words. If you want to tutor others, perhaps have the professor make an announcement that you are willing to help others or want to form a study group. I've seen that happen in many classes.


Lastly, you mentioned that you have photographic memory. Please realize its limitations. I know a couple of people who moved up the ladder because of it... mostly because they could write well and spoke like they were reading a book rather than speaking like an ordinary person. However, moving up the ladder means taking on responsibility. Because they relied on the memory (and a couple of people lost their semi-photographic memory as they got older) they are really struggling. They cannot make decisions because they never learned decision making skills. They also never learned the scientific concepts behind anything -- they took for granted what they read was true (without contextual information). They ended up making poor decisions, alienating their colleagues (because they thought they always knew the answer, and most of the time it was wrong or didn't make sense). They would be on every conference call saying, "I don't know... I'll check with "so and so" and get back to you as to what you should do." They lost all respect in the eyes of their colleages, those below them, and those above them. My last supervisor that had it would read everything our team wrote and change the word "many" to "several" and things like that, but never once in two years commented on content (and I work in a POLICY office) - because she couldn't. That is a dangerous risk to take. I think you could have a bright future, but this could easily happen to you unless you realize the limitations. Photographic memory is great if you want to study French, but it is more difficult in studying business, public health, or sociology which involve concepts and relationships.
 
In my last post I forgot to add... don't stop answering questions. Just consider not answering all of them for the benefit of the others.


Also, those people I referred to with the photographic memory... they got up to a certain point on the ladder (fairly high) but stopped there. Don't let that happen to you.
 
My advice for you is: do NOT go to medical school. You sound extremely annoying, and I don't want to end up in class or residency with you.
 
blueperson said:
I just a few things I want to mention, because I'm sincerely concerned about you...
1. Many of the "smartest" people I know will occasionally participate in class or choose not to participate at all. However, these are also some of the kindest people I know and spend time talking with and getting to know classmates before/after class. That is a way you could also find the people you wish to associate with. However, they go one step further and they form study groups (even if they know the material) because they feel that there is always something that they can learn from others not to mention friendships forged, academic or work connections that could be used, etc. By not truly interacting with your classmates you are missing opportunities. Try not to think in terms of talking a lot in class so that people will seek you out.
2. Try listening to others.
a.In many aspects of life, there are no "right" answers. In fact, in science, remember, what we study now is what is understood at this time. There are very few laws in science, particularly life science. Rather, there are hypotheses, etc. At one time bleeding people was the answer. At one time giving antibiotics to people with colds for piece of mind was the answer. Many times there are several opinions, not one answer. For example, not that long ago, some dermatologists prescribed oral antibiotics for acne; others prescribed fish oil supplements with the thought that the skin would slow its production of oil. Same problem: acne. Answer: varying opinions/approaches.
b. Knowing the "right" answers will not help in dealing with grieving families, etc., and other situational experiences when one needs not only scientific knowledge but also interpersonal skills that are so important for any professional, including medical professionals. Listen to others and learn from them how they interact with others and notice how they make others feel. Right now you are focusing on answers in class but being able to recall information is only one skill of many you will need as a physician.
c. Listen for the sake of listening. One day you will be wrong. Nobody can be 100% correct 100% of the time. If you make a diagnosis or treatment decision and someone else thinks you might be making a mistake, listen. They might be correct and save a patient physical and mental suffering, money, etc.
3. Now this isn't concerning you, but your fellow students. You mention that you want to earn money by helping struggling students. However, you might be a portion of the problem. By answering the questions, the professor might assume that the class might be understanding the concept, and not realize that others "don't get" it. The silence sometimes indicates that the professor needs to explain something again, in a different way, use a different technique like a visual aid, etc. You are not allowing for that education to happen. Also, auditory learners learn better by hearing material - just like you learn by reading with photographic memory. Give those learners (who are every bit as smart but learn it a differnet way) to absorb the material as well by pausing or giving others a chance to answer in their own words. If you want to tutor others, perhaps have the professor make an announcement that you are willing to help others or want to form a study group. I've seen that happen in many classes.


Lastly, you mentioned that you have photographic memory. Please realize its limitations. I know a couple of people who moved up the ladder because of it... mostly because they could write well and spoke like they were reading a book rather than speaking like an ordinary person. However, moving up the ladder means taking on responsibility. Because they relied on the memory (and a couple of people lost their semi-photographic memory as they got older) they are really struggling. They cannot make decisions because they never learned decision making skills. They also never learned the scientific concepts behind anything -- they took for granted what they read was true (without contextual information). They ended up making poor decisions, alienating their colleagues (because they thought they always knew the answer, and most of the time it was wrong or didn't make sense). They would be on every conference call saying, "I don't know... I'll check with "so and so" and get back to you as to what you should do." They lost all respect in the eyes of their colleages, those below them, and those above them. My last supervisor that had it would read everything our team wrote and change the word "many" to "several" and things like that, but never once in two years commented on content (and I work in a POLICY office) - because she couldn't. That is a dangerous risk to take. I think you could have a bright future, but this could easily happen to you unless you realize the limitations. Photographic memory is great if you want to study French, but it is more difficult in studying business, public health, or sociology which involve concepts and relationships.

Wow.. Thanks a LOT for your time and effort, advice, and being real in responding. 👍
 
haha, this is great that you guys already know about gunners. I am a first year and there is definitely a stigma to being a gunner, but it only comes from people who are not gunners.

Out of a class of 130 its the people who decide they need every little question answered IN CLASS, instead of going home and looking it up themselves, that really get annoying. A prof will ask a socratic question maybe twice a semester, and answering them is no big deal. It's when people are constantly raising their hands to interrupt class with what they think is a unique perspective, or even worse a question. Zip it and wait until class ends, then go up to the prof and ask privately.
 
Ross434 said:
Sorry, i believe in never missing an opportunity to engage in academic give-and-take

I think that in exchange for me bringing my talents and abilities to this university, i should at least be allowed the chance to capitalize on any chance i have to interact with the professor in a classroom setting.


Sorry I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. Come on guys stop revving this guy's engine...he's obviously beyond help. get a life buddy..life's not all about academics. If you are, god forbid,in a terrible car crash one day with your life passing before your eyes, are you going to regret not answering that one question the professor asked in class that you TOTALLY knew the answer to, or are you gonna regret not living the real life and not getting laid because chicks think you're a nerd who doesn't have a life besides school. get with it...seriously. and in case you think i'm a bitter girl who feels inferior to your fabulous intelligence, let me put it this way..I am also a national merit scholar, hold the highest scholarship award at my school which just like yours pays for everything and then some, etc. All I'm saying is life's too short to be so grossly short-sighted about life.
 
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