Student loan forgiveness & the future of clinical psychology doctoral programs?

[JeyRo]

I don't think this is leading anywhere good.

I fully expect to see students talking about accruing million-dollar debt loads to pay for PsyD programs in the coming years.

That's going to come with all sorts of nasty knock-on effects, economic as well as political.

What do you all think?

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[psych.meout]

"Million-dollar debt loads"?

Based on what?

 

[PsyDuck90]

Aren't they just forgiving up to $10k or $20k if you received a Pell Grant? I don't see how that will cause people to enroll in predatory high-cost programs at any significantly higher rate than is happening now.

 

[PsyDr]

I’ve sat in on meetings with financial advisors to LARGE university systems. One million is a nonstarter. That’s not how that works, unless you listen to the media.

 

[Sanman]

Just to chime in on this. I don't think that we will see million dollar debt loads because getting the requested loans will be difficult. The issue of tuition+interest outstripping earnings is an important one though. It will either leave future grads with a poor standard of living or it will leave us without people who opt to enter the field. The real issue will be grads that cannot end up in big money areas. As a geropsychologist @JeyRo , you know the mine field that is early career jobs in that area. The most logical fix for me would be to fix the midlevel problems and increase outpatient therapist numbers and reserve the PsyD/PhD for the specialty areas. This is similar to the route medicine is taking currently.

 

[JeyRo]

I’ve sat in on meetings with financial advisors to LARGE university systems. One million is a nonstarter. That’s not how that works, unless you listen to the media.

You say that, but at my alma mater, 500K debt loads after completing a PsyD program is not unusual. 10 years ago 500K would have seemed as insane as a million dollars sounds today

 

[AcronymAllergy]

You say that, but at my alma mater, 500K debt loads after completing a PsyD program is not unusual. 10 years ago 500K would have seemed as insane as a million dollars sounds today

Good lord...

 

[msc545]

People seem to have some problems with reality testing when it comes to doctoral degrees - the "I wanna be a therapist and be called Doctor" thing would seem to often blind them to the economic consequences of a decision to embark on what is actually an expensive, long journey without much compensation at the end. I suspect it is more perceived status than the money they are after.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

this 10k or 20k thing is a drop in the bucket for most coming from the diploma mills. as we have consistently stated on this forum, the thing to watch for is PSLF. I've had so many colleagues now have 2 to 300k wiped off the books from it.

 

[VirginiaIsForLovers]

If students are accruing a million dollar debt for school, that's really unfortunate, since I am going to assume some of those loans are private. PSLF and any government loan forgiveness only applies to federal loans. You can only borrow as much as the cost of attendance (I believe).

 

[AcronymAllergy]

If students are accruing a million dollar debt for school, that's really unfortunate, since I am going to assume some of those loans are private. PSLF and any government loan forgiveness only applies to federal loans. You can only borrow as much as the cost of attendance (I believe).

I'd imagine so as well, yep. I believe federal loans are capped about about 20k/year for graduate school, and yes, cost of attendance is factored in. There may be other federal options I'm not aware of, though.

 

[msc545]

I'd imagine so as well, yep. I believe federal loans are capped about about 20k/year for graduate school, and yes, cost of attendance is factored in. There may be other federal options I'm not aware of, though.

There seem to be some loans that (maybe) also provide for some living expenses since if you can't eat or pay rent you generally have difficulties in school as well. I had scholarships that paid a nominal but still significant amount for my living expenses, but that was long ago - not sure how it is now.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

There seem to be some loans that (maybe) also provide for some living expenses since if you can't eat or pay rent you generally have difficulties in school as well. I had scholarships that paid a nominal but still significant amount for my living expenses, but that was long ago - not sure how it is now.

Grad plus essentially is a blank check. At least last i recall hearing. One of the colleagues i mentioned who just had 300ish forgiven because of PSLF financed a beamer with grad plus.

 

[psycho1391]

Grad plus essentially is a blank check. At least last i recall hearing. One of the colleagues i mentioned who just had 300ish forgiven because of PSLF financed a beamer with grad plus.

Having worked financial aid as my master's assistantship, Grad Plus is not a blank check. You can only have as much as COA which includes tuition plus cost of living. Now, if you need more room for Grad Plus, the student has to fill out paperwork and that has to be approved by the financial aid office within bounds of dept of ed rules.

 

[Sanman]

Grad plus essentially is a blank check. At least last i recall hearing. One of the colleagues i mentioned who just had 300ish forgiven because of PSLF financed a beamer with grad plus.

Good to know this is being used responsibly and no one is working the system.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

There seem to be some loans that (maybe) also provide for some living expenses since if you can't eat or pay rent you generally have difficulties in school as well. I had scholarships that paid a nominal but still significant amount for my living expenses, but that was long ago - not sure how it is now.

Yeah, I think the amount you can take out includes a reasonable portion for living expenses (i.e., it's more than just tuition, fees, and books), although I don't know how that amount is determined.

 

[Sanman]

Yeah, I think the amount you can take out includes a reasonable portion for living expenses (i.e., it's more than just tuition, fees, and books), although I don't know how that amount is determined.

My grad loans were federal and almost all for living expenses since school was free except for fees and books. However, I was under the $20k/yr cap so I am not sure how it works out on higher loan amounts.

 

[psycho1391]

Yeah, I think the amount you can take out includes a reasonable portion for living expenses (i.e., it's more than just tuition, fees, and books), although I don't know how that amount is determined.

The amount is usually determined using department of education rules and by the financial aid office at the university. It consists of tuition and fees, cost of room and board (or living expenses), cost of books, supplies, transportation, loan fees, and miscellaneous expenses (including a reasonable amount for the documented cost of a personal computer), allowance for childcare or other dependent care, costs related to a disability, and reasonable costs for eligible study-abroad programs. Usually a financial aid office will look at averages in the area that it is in to determine non-tuition related costs.