Students Without Borders

[Dr. AK]

Hi All,

I am looking to start a national, student led organization called "Students Without Borders," (there are others, but this will be the biggest and best). I am very interested in global health issues (other issues (violence, climate change, poverty) as well, but that is a conversation for later).

Ideally, I would like students to volunteer from all medical school in the United States and in this way we can start a collation that promotes progress on global issues (this does not have to be political, i.e. small community based efforts are very effective) If you are interested in working with me on this project, please let me know. If you think this idea has potential, but needs work I would like you to consider joining the effort. We need those who are web-savvy, business-minded, passionate, idealistic, pragmatic, and committed.

The goal is to work to improve the conditions of those in need, and since our time is only going to be more constrained as we get older, right now is as good of a time as any.

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[MaximusD]

It's Borders.

 

[DOctorJay]

I think it's great people want to help in this way but I don't understand why it has to be out of the country (unless a major goal of yours is to get some traveling out of it).

want to see a third world country that needs some help, come visit Camden, New Jersey.

 

[rub1003]

if you've seen people actually live in mountains full of garbage, you'd understand. i am interested in helping our nation and others because with volunteering, country borders shouldn't exist. it's just about helping people, whatever country they may live in.

i'm definitely interested but i'd like to hear more about your plan of action in making this organization.

 

[Med_Leviathan]

Hi All,

I am looking to start a national, student led organization called “Students Without Boarder,” (there are others, but this will be the biggest and best). I am very interested in global health issues (other issues (violence, climate change, poverty) as well, but that is a conversation for later).

Ideally, I would like students to volunteer from all medical school in the United States and in this way we can start a collation that promotes progress on global issues (this does not have to be political, i.e. small community based efforts are very effective) If you are interested in working with me on this project, please let me know. If you think this idea has potential, but needs work I would like you to consider joining the effort. We need those who are web-savvy, business-minded, passionate, idealistic, pragmatic, and committed.

The goal is to work to improve the conditions of those in need, and since our time is only going to be more constrained as we get older, right now is as good of a time as any.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I think it's great people want to help in this way but I don't understand why it has to be out of the country (unless a major goal of yours is to get some traveling out of it).

want to see a third world country that needs some help, come visit Camden, New Jersey.

Or Detroit.
Or New Orleans
Or Newark
Or parts of Kansas City
Or St. Louis
Or Gary Indiana.......

But we all know it's not humanitarian work unless you get your passport stamped.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

We need those who are web-savvy, business-minded, passionate, idealistic, pragmatic, and committed.

I think you will find the numbers of people who fit the emphasized characteristics in regards to tending to the unwashed masses of foreign nations drops off sharply once they have a med school acceptance.

 

[Dr. AK]

It's Borders.

Thanks.

 

[Dr. AK]

Or Detroit.
Or New Orleans
Or Newark
Or parts of Kansas City
Or St. Louis
Or Gary Indiana.......

But we all know it's not humanitarian work unless you get your passport stamped.

The GREAT THING is, we can work within and beyond our own borders. But we have to start somewhere. All of our schools are close to cities in need, and many of us were born in different countries and know what it is like to not have medicine and have children die because vaccinations were not "available resources."

Yes, the medical situation here in the United States is bad. I agree. But the poorest of areas here in the US would be a dream come true to many poverty-stricken areas in Africa, Asia, and South America.

So, what I envisions, which is very much up for a debate and a re-working, is a multi-pronged approach that addresses health issues here in the US and abroad. We can start with New Orleans and the shortage of medical providers, we can look at Malaria in Malawi, we can address HIV/AIDS in Nigeria, or for that matter, any country in Africa.

We start by forming a leadership committee, designing a website, and then we discuss a 6-month agenda and act accordingly through all of our schools and local communities to bring about change.

Eventually, the group can expand its outreach and make a dent on other local and global issues (violence and hatred, climate change...). The wonderful thing about all of this is that as future physicians, we have an overwhelming potential to affect change. Yet our responsibility to our communities is just as great. Like it or not, we are leaders in our communities, and those in need will expect us to act.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Not only did you misspell "borders" again.......but you apparently missed my point that most of us could give a **** about those countries or those of us who do are realists and see that flaws in the fallacy that a bunch of western docs- let alone med students- will even make a dent in the problem.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Not only did you misspell "borders" again.......but you apparently missed my point that most of us could give a **** about those countries or those of us who do are realists and see that flaws in the fallacy that a bunch of western docs- let alone med students- will even make a dent in the problem.

Yea, I guess while some of us actually attend class and attempt to do well for ourselves, Dr. AK will be the lone ranger in his hopeless attempt to:

1. End world hunger
2. Find miracle cures
3. Treat terminal illnesses
3. And much ... much more ...!!

Wow, Dr. AK, I really commend you for your "dreams", considering you haven't had a lick of real medical experience nor have the medical education, yet will be able to solve all the world's problems. Good luck ... and take a dictionary with you on the way out of med school ...

 

[Dr. AK]

I understand if some of you don't feel like this is possible, but there is no reason to be inflammatory. If you are not interested, that is fine. But for me, medicine is about helping people. Call me whatever you would like.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Call me whatever you would like.

OK, since you gave me carte blanche...but I'm not attacking you, just questioning your ideas....they are the immature, misguided, borderline delusionary and pointless ramblings of someone who has most likely never actually seen those countries of which he/she speaks nor does he realize the degree of the problems being discussed.

 

[Sarikate]

Anyone has the potential to act for change and actually make headway. It'll do no use to tell people they are never going to make any strides, or to tell them that any strides they do make can't possibly precipitate wider change in society; this attitude won't be helpful in anyone's career as a physician. I understand the doubts people have about others embarking on such a task as the OP mentioned (I lived in remote Africa and South America for several months and no, it's not pretty), but still...what's the point of not voicing support for a cause that is inherently good?

In this case, there's tons of obstacles, but idealism shouldn't be dead.

 

[Dr. AK]

Not only did you misspell "borders" again.......but you apparently missed my point that most of us could give a **** about those countries or those of us who do are realists and see that flaws in the fallacy that a bunch of western docs- let alone med students- will even make a dent in the problem.

I did not miss your point, but, respectfully, people can only speak for themselves. And I am sure that not everyone that posts here feels the same way you do.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

I understand if some of you don't feel like this is possible, but there is no reason to be inflammatory. If you are not interested, that is fine. But for me, medicine is about helping people. Call me whatever you would like.

I wonder if you've ever been outside the US? And no, TV or movies or a simple "Donate to the Needy" commercials don't count ...

There are far greater problems that underly what we all see on the surface ... this includes, infrastructure, class-system, technology, environment, government ... and it's definitely NOT limited to those categories in which the problems exist.

 

[Dr. AK]

Anyone has the potential to act for change and actually make headway. It'll do no use to tell people they are never going to make any strides, or to tell them that any strides they do make can't possibly precipitate wider change in society; this attitude won't be helpful in anyone's career as a physician. I understand the doubts people have about others embarking on such a task as the OP mentioned (I lived in remote Africa and South America for several months and no, it's not pretty), but still...what's the point of not voicing support for a cause that is inherently good?

In this case, there's tons of obstacles, but idealism shouldn't be dead.

Thanks very much Sarikate.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I did not miss your point, but, respectfully, people can only speak for themselves. And I am sure that not everyone that posts here feels the same way you do.

Yes, but most of us are not as wide eyed and idealistic as you are.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Anyone has the potential to act for change and actually make headway. It'll do no use to tell people they are never going to make any strides, or to tell them that any strides they do make can't possibly precipitate wider change in society; this attitude won't be helpful in anyone's career as a physician. I understand the doubts people have about others embarking on such a task as the OP mentioned (I lived in remote Africa and South America for several months and no, it's not pretty), but still...what's the point of not voicing support for a cause that is inherently good?

In this case, there's tons of obstacles, but idealism shouldn't be dead.

Granted idealism is a good thing, but we- as adults, most of whom are of average or above average intelligence- should realize when a problem is effectively insurmountable. Unless you like the frustration and headaches that comes from doing something that is akin to trying to bore through a mountain with a forehead.

 

[Dr. AK]

OK, since you gave me carte blanche...but I'm not attacking you, just questioning your ideas....they are the immature, misguided, borderline delusionary and pointless ramblings of someone who has most likely never actually seen those countries of which he/she speaks nor does he realize the degree of the problems being discussed.

I was born in Egypt, and almost died when I was 7 as a result of an infection. The doctor who treated me later told my parents that I was days away from an amputation or death. I traveled to China and saw remote villages where many children could not afford clothe and others slept in streets. I also have many individuals in my family here in the United States who don’t see doctors because they cannot afford health care. I know what poverty is like, and it does not feel good. I will act when I have an opportunity to do so, and now is my opportunity.

 

[DO Doc]

I think it's great people want to help in this way but I don't understand why it has to be out of the country (unless a major goal of yours is to get some traveling out of it).

want to see a third world country that needs some help, come visit Camden, New Jersey.

i feel this comment was somewhat arrogant. and yes, i do have a right to say that as a resident of southern NJ for, my entire life, and have very close ties to the entire camden area.

Although, I do not contest the fact that Camden needs help, it's NOT a third world country. Maybe you should rethink your statement. What makes third world countries so poverty driven and in such desperation of help is NOT the fact that it's citizens are drug addicts, welfare addicts, too lazy, or just make bad decisions in life. Now, I am NOT stereotyping everyone in Camden as I do know that there are some legitimate people in Camden that need help, but there are many many people who do just take advantage of the system. And truth be told, if these certain people were to go out there and make a personal and conscious decision to change and help themselves, Camden would be a lot better place.

Third world countries, their citizens have no choice. They are thrust into their situations from birth and have no exit strategy to help themselves. They have no resources, no means, and no ends. They're stuck in this rut of a life and many become victims to diseases and conditions that are not common to the states anymore, ie. Measles, Mumps, TB, etc...

I welcome any new organization that focuses on destroying any borders or walls to help those who really need it wherever they may be.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Yes, but most of us are not as wide eyed and idealistic as you are.

If his goals were similar to Hunter Adams', then I'd say it's possible ... however, this is taking on something bigger than any group of individuals can take on ... just ask the WHO.

 

[Daydreamer2008]

Wow u DO people can be harsh. I find the allo forum a lot more supportive. Who are any of you to say he can't have the ideals he has? That is not ur place, and when you are a physician and u know that ur patient is not going to live for instance, are u gonna put them down for having "misguided ideals" if they have hope that they might live, or that they might live and be able to change the world in their own way. This all goes back to who you are as a person, so focus on yourselves, and stop being such a-holes about it.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I was born in Egypt, and almost died when I was 7 as a result of an infection. The doctor who treated me later told my parents that I was days away from an amputation or death. I traveled to China and saw remote villages where many children could not afford clothe and others slept in streets. I also have many individuals in my family here in the United States who don’t see doctors because they cannot afford health care. I know what poverty is like, and it does not feel good. I will act when I have an opportunity to do so, and now is my opportunity.

Points taken, but I still stand by my assessment you're overestimating your ability to make anything more than a transient and very shallow dent (shooting an Iowa class battleship with a pellet gun is a good analogy). Have fun.

 

[Sarikate]

There are far greater problems that underly what we all see on the surface ... this includes, infrastructure, class-system, technology, environment, government ... and it's definitely NOT limited to those categories in which the problems exist.

All these problems are interrelated. Can't even tell you how many Tanzanians I met who were sick with chronic worm infections; they get these infections from their drinking water, which is contaminated with feces from their farm animals (who are their livelihood, because their kids can't go to school because there aren't any teachers) and from their neighbors; the governments can't clean up the water because they a) are corrupt and b) there's limited affordable technology available to purify the water. A quarter of these people have HIV because husbands like to sleep with prostitutes and their wives are afraid of getting beaten senseless if they speak up about it, or the women are prostitutes themselves because it's a quick way to earn money. None of them can afford anti-retrovirals because the pharmaceutical companies need to pay their CEOs millions of dollars, so they end up dying, leaving their children orphaned and having to tend the farms and go to the bathroom in the local lake because there are no latrines.

Anyway, you catch my drift. Yes, lots of problems - doesn't mean people can't become educated about them.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Wow u DO people can be harsh. I find the allo forum a lot more supportive

Normally most people say it's the other way around......

 

[DropkickMurphy]

All these problems are interrelated. Can't even tell you how many Tanzanians I met who were sick with chronic worm infections; they get these infections from their drinking water, which is contaminated with feces from their farm animals (who are their livelihood, because their kids can't go to school because there aren't any teachers) and from their neighbors; the governments can't clean up the water because they a) are corrupt and b) there's limited affordable technology available to purify the water. A quarter of these people have HIV because husbands like to sleep with prostitutes and their wives are afraid of getting beaten senseless if they speak up about it, or the women are prostitutes themselves because it's a quick way to earn money. None of them can afford anti-retrovirals because the pharmaceutical companies need to pay their CEOs millions of dollars, so they end up dying, leaving their children orphaned and having to tend the farms and go to the bathroom in the local lake because there are no latrines.

Anyway, you catch my drift. Yes, lots of problems - doesn't mean people can't become educated about them.

Ah....the real circle of life.

 

[Sarikate]

Points taken, but I still stand by my assessment you're overestimating your ability to make anything more than a transient and very shallow dent (shooting an Iowa class battleship with a pellet gun is a good analogy). Have fun.

Dropkick, some people have to at least try shooting a battleship with a pellet gun; even if you don't down the ship, you may at least alert the captain (especially if you get him in the arm).

 

[Sarikate]

Ah....the real circle of life.

Sad, but true!

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Dropkick, some people have to at least try shooting a battleship with a pellet gun; even if you don't down the ship, you may at least alert the captain (especially if you get him in the arm).

However, if you don't have the proper means, that "alert" may very well end up being your own undoing ...

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Sad, but true!

Glad we agree on something.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

However, if you don't have the proper means, that "alert" may very well end up being your own undoing ...

*horrific mental image of Dr. AK being tortured by some African warlord for pissing him off* Yup.....tread lightly if you tread at all.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Dropkick, some people have to at least try shooting a battleship with a pellet gun; even if you don't down the ship, you may at least alert the captain (especially if you get him in the arm).

What if we don't care enough to waste our time bothering to alert the captain?

 

[Dr. AK]

We may not end HIV/AIDS or Global Poverty, but does this mean we should not try? Personally, I think this group would be successful if it can manage to save the life of one person.

I was an Intern with the Clinton Global Initiative, and I had a chance to see first-hand how individuals, each with their own approach, was making a dent on these issues. Together we can succeed.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

We may not end HIV/AIDS or Global Poverty, but does this mean we should not try? Personally, I think this group would be successful if it can manage to save the life of one person.

Why not just segregate the infected individuals (in the case of the AIDS) to help actually control the disease rather than the BS ways we are trying to manage it now among non-compliant populations?

As for poverty and starvation, why not instead of mandating religious conversion in exchange for food and other aid like a lot of groups do, how about requiring the person to undergo tubal ligation or vasectomy to help control the population? I think the problem has more to do with overpopulation on a local level than anything else. It's a matter of the locals not being smart enough to know when to stop breeding like sewer rats after an accidental Viagra spill, and the rest of the world basically not having the stomach to admit a true answer to the solution.

 

[Dr.Inviz]

Why not just segregate the infected individuals (in the case of the AIDS) to help actually control the disease rather than the BS ways we are trying to manage it now among non-compliant populations?

It worked for Cuba ... or some other island nation ...

 

[Kuba]

Why not just segregate the infected individuals (in the case of the AIDS) to help actually control the disease rather than the BS ways we are trying to manage it now among non-compliant populations?

As for poverty and starvation, why not instead of mandating religious conversion in exchange for food and other aid like a lot of groups do, how about requiring the person to undergo tubal ligation or vasectomy to help control the population? I think the problem has more to do with overpopulation on a local level than anything else. It's a matter of the locals not being smart enough to know when to stop breeding like sewer rats after an accidental Viagra spill, and the rest of the world basically not having the stomach to admit a true answer to the solution.

.. sorry DKM, I dont think I would write you a LOR..

 

[Dr.Inviz]

.. sorry DKM, I dont think I would write you a LOR..

Good thing pre-meders don't need an LOR from an MS-0.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

.. sorry DKM, I dont think I would write you a LOR..

What I said is no less ridiculous than the belief that a group of American medical students can make any real difference.

 

[milly1190]

i feel this comment was somewhat arrogant. and yes, i do have a right to say that as a resident of southern NJ for, my entire life, and have very close ties to the entire camden area.

Although, I do not contest the fact that Camden needs help, it's NOT a third world country. Maybe you should rethink your statement. What makes third world countries so poverty driven and in such desperation of help is NOT the fact that it's citizens are drug addicts, welfare addicts, too lazy, or just make bad decisions in life. Now, I am NOT stereotyping everyone in Camden as I do know that there are some legitimate people in Camden that need help, but there are many many people who do just take advantage of the system. And truth be told, if these certain people were to go out there and make a personal and conscious decision to change and help themselves, Camden would be a lot better place.

Third world countries, their citizens have no choice. They are thrust into their situations from birth and have no exit strategy to help themselves. They have no resources, no means, and no ends. They're stuck in this rut of a life and many become victims to diseases and conditions that are not common to the states anymore, ie. Measles, Mumps, TB, etc...

I welcome any new organization that focuses on destroying any borders or walls to help those who really need it wherever they may be.

"welfare addicts?" "too lazy?" What side of the ignorant fence were you born on? I find your comments extremely ignorant and extremely classist. You think people in the U.S. living in poverty have a choice? Not everyone has your mommy or daddy to spoil the hell out of them and pay for an expensive education. Go learn about racism, poverty, social welfare...and why people like you perpetuate poverty, classism, and racism in the U.S.

 

[milly1190]

i feel this comment was somewhat arrogant. and yes, i do have a right to say that as a resident of southern NJ for, my entire life, and have very close ties to the entire camden area.

Although, I do not contest the fact that Camden needs help, it's NOT a third world country. Maybe you should rethink your statement. What makes third world countries so poverty driven and in such desperation of help is NOT the fact that it's citizens are drug addicts, welfare addicts, too lazy, or just make bad decisions in life. Now, I am NOT stereotyping everyone in Camden as I do know that there are some legitimate people in Camden that need help, but there are many many people who do just take advantage of the system. And truth be told, if these certain people were to go out there and make a personal and conscious decision to change and help themselves, Camden would be a lot better place.

Third world countries, their citizens have no choice. They are thrust into their situations from birth and have no exit strategy to help themselves. They have no resources, no means, and no ends. They're stuck in this rut of a life and many become victims to diseases and conditions that are not common to the states anymore, ie. Measles, Mumps, TB, etc...

I welcome any new organization that focuses on destroying any borders or walls to help those who really need it wherever they may be.

"welfare addicts?" "too lazy?" What side of the ignorant fence were you born on? I find your comments extremely ignorant and classist. You think people in the U.S. living in poverty have a choice? Not everyone has your mommy or daddy to spoil the hell out of them and pay for an expensive education. Go learn about racism, poverty, social welfare...and why people like you contribute to the cycle.

 

[Hexanol]

"welfare addicts?" "too lazy?" What side of the ignorant fence were you born on? I find your comments extremely ignorant and classist. You think people in the U.S. living in poverty have a choice? Not everyone has your mommy or daddy to spoil the hell out of them and pay for an expensive education. Go learn about racism, poverty, social welfare...and why people like you contribute to the cycle.

whoa. calm down everyone. i think DO Doc was just referring to those who did have a choice and purposely did nothing to change their situation.

ok anyway, how did this topic come down to this? so back on track, I do like the idea of this new organization. I do agree that you, even as a physician, need to keep your ideals and as Dr. AK said it, we may not end the world's problems, but we should still try. Solutions to problems can only become a reality through action and I, personally, would love to see more people dedicated to serve mankind as a whole without any borders or territorial lines. But that's just me personally.

 

[milly1190]

re

 

[DropkickMurphy]

"welfare addicts?" "too lazy?" What side of the ignorant fence were you born on? I find your comments extremely ignorant and extremely classist. You think people in the U.S. living in poverty have a choice? Not everyone has your mommy or daddy to spoil the hell out of them and pay for an expensive education. Go learn about racism, poverty, social welfare...and why people like you perpetuate poverty, classism, and racism in the U.S.

I was born into a poor family, and I tend to think people have more options than they like to let themselves and others believe. Racism, classicism, and "the man keeping my ass po'!" is just another way of saying "I'm too lazy or too stupid to get off my ass and do something about my situtation". It's not easy, but it can be done.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Solutions to problems can only become a reality through action and I, personally, would love to see more people dedicated to serve mankind as a whole without any borders or territorial lines. But that's just me personally.

I would too, but the truth (e.g., the source of the problem) is that most people are self-serving, elitist pricks who will only do things that will better their own place in life. Most of us demonstrated this during our premed years....it was just hidden behind a thin veil of altruism.

 

[HunterGatherer]

I was born into a poor family, and I tend to think people have more options than they like to let themselves and others believe. Racism, classicism, and "the man keeping my ass po'!" is just another way of saying "I'm too lazy or too stupid to get off my ass and do something about my situtation". It's not easy, but it can be done.

why is your family poor?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

For more ranting: http://drslounge.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=374743

 

[DropkickMurphy]

why is your family poor?

Because my dad was lazy when he was younger and didn't go to college like he should have (he ended up getting an associate's degree later, but still....). My mom is a high school dropout. That's why.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

It's Borders.

haha i noticed that too and I thought this was a joke post and he was going to play off students wanting people to board in their room

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

Why not just segregate the infected individuals (in the case of the AIDS) to help actually control the disease rather than the BS ways we are trying to manage it now among non-compliant populations?

As for poverty and starvation, why not instead of mandating religious conversion in exchange for food and other aid like a lot of groups do, how about requiring the person to undergo tubal ligation or vasectomy to help control the population? I think the problem has more to do with overpopulation on a local level than anything else. It's a matter of the locals not being smart enough to know when to stop breeding like sewer rats after an accidental Viagra spill, and the rest of the world basically not having the stomach to admit a true answer to the solution.

DKM you are the F***ing KING!