succinylcholine in Mossad hit

Started by cfdavid
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Call me a bad person, but Hamas leaders get what they deserve.

I have been continually impressed with Mossad, ever since they, very methodically, took out everyone involved with the 1972 Olympics killings. Not to mention getting Eichmann.

They know how to get things done. We could learn a thing or two from them.
 
Call me a bad person, but Hamas leaders get what they deserve.

I have been continually impressed with Mossad, ever since they, very methodically, took out everyone involved with the 1972 Olympics killings. Not to mention getting Eichmann.

They know how to get things done. We could learn a thing or two from them.

Violence begets violence. Hamas will just try even harder to kill more Israelis.
 
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Call me a bad person, but Hamas leaders get what they deserve.

I have been continually impressed with Mossad, ever since they, very methodically, took out everyone involved with the 1972 Olympics killings. Not to mention getting Eichmann.

They know how to get things done. We could learn a thing or two from them.

Absolutely, same here.

One of my favorite movies- "MUNICH" by Spielberg documents that unfortunate 1972 Olympic terrorist attack and Israel's response under Golda Meir. I have only seen it >10 times at this point.

Interestingly, the movie comes to the same conclusion about violence as GB.
 
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Violence begets violence.

When Genghis Khan subdued a region and beheaded every male who stood taller than a wagon wheel, that area didn't give him any more crap. I'm not saying the guy ushered in a golden age of peace and tranquility (though I give him full points for exempting doctors from taxation), but ruthlessly efficient violence can accomplish a lot if there aren't any hippies around getting their mellows harshed on CNN.


There have been more than a few murder cases in the US in which nurses or anesthesiologists think that succ is the perfect, undetectable murder weapon. One of them was a state official in Nevada a few years ago but I don't remember the details.

So remember, if you're an anesthesiologist planning to bump off your spouse, the first thing they'll look for is succ. 🙂
 
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When Genghis Khan subdued a region and beheaded every male who stood taller than a wagon wheel, that area didn't give him any more crap. I'm not saying the guy ushered in a golden age of peace and tranquility (though I give him full points for exempting doctors from taxation), but ruthlessly efficient violence can accomplish a lot if there aren't any hippies around getting their mellows harshed on CNN.


There have been more than a few murder cases in the US in which nurses or anesthesiologists think that succ is the perfect, undetectable murder weapon. One of them was a state official in Nevada a few years ago but I don't remember the details.

So remember, if you're an anesthesiologist planning to bump off your spouse, the first thing they'll look for is succ. 🙂
My question is though. why did they even check for sux? There's no indication tht these mossad folks are anesthesiologists etc. Is there a 'panel' that's always run? I wonder if this panel includes other NMBs like roc, cistatr,etc....

Kinda random they checked for it, but good thing they did.

Secondly, not so sure that killing a Hamas leader like this was the smartest move by the Israelis. Often times they are 'victimized' by their own media and some of our own. When something like this happens, its oftn times difficult to play the 'victim' role.
 
My question is though. why did they even check for sux? There's no indication tht these mossad folks are anesthesiologists etc. Is there a 'panel' that's always run? I wonder if this panel includes other NMBs like roc, cistatr,etc....

Kinda random they checked for it, but good thing they did.

Wouldn't they see the needle hole or the old IV site? That should tip them off during an autopsy, I'd imagine...
 
Secondly, not so sure that killing a Hamas leader like this was the smartest move by the Israelis. Often times they are 'victimized' by their own media and some of our own. When something like this happens, its oftn times difficult to play the 'victim' role.

Oh, I'm not taking sides or endorsing his assassination. Just commenting on the 'violence begets violence' bit. I realize that embracing the teachings of Genghis Khan is not a universal solution. 🙂
 
Oh, I'm not taking sides or endorsing his assassination. Just commenting on the 'violence begets violence' bit. I realize that embracing the teachings of Genghis Khan is not a universal solution. 🙂

I watched a History Channel episode about Genghis Khan. Apparently, he had a bit of a "penchant" for the ladies.......😀
 
Insulin : c-peptide ratio? Would that be a useful test in a corpse?

That was my thought. I'm presuming they could test for c-peptide, because insulin has been around probably longer than sux, and you don't typically hear of people using that as the ideal weapon. But then again I'm not a forensics person.
 
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Oh, I'm not taking sides or endorsing his assassination. Just commenting on the 'violence begets violence' bit. I realize that embracing the teachings of Genghis Khan is not a universal solution. 🙂

From what I recll...Genghis Khan was widely loved. His empire was such a heterogenous civilization (it spanned through so many cultures, countries). They all loved him because apparently once he 'conquered' them, he would let them rule over themselves as long as they paid their taxes,etc to the empire.

Apparently since he was so 'merciful',people loved him...That's what I recall.

If you ever crossed him or were at war with him, that's a TOTALLY different story.
 
That was my thought. I'm presuming they could test for c-peptide, because insulin has been around probably longer than sux, and you don't typically hear of people using that as the ideal weapon. But then again I'm not a forensics person.

My guess is that it's probably not that big a secret amongst trained intelligence/counter-intelligence agencies. Hence the reason they tested for it. Also, perhaps they noted a lack of evidence of a struggle while concluding asphyxiation as the cause of death (something that would normally result in quite a struggle, I presume).

cf
 
Call me a bad person, but Hamas leaders get what they deserve.

I have been continually impressed with Mossad, ever since they, very methodically, took out everyone involved with the 1972 Olympics killings. Not to mention getting Eichmann.

They know how to get things done. We could learn a thing or two from them.

While it's hard to argue that they don't "get things done", I'm not so sure the operation (or any operation that readily points to the perps) would be considered a success in the world of covert ops.

Look at the ramifications coming from the European countries who's passports were forged as well as the continued exposure of the fallacy that the Israeli's are "victims" of aggression versus perpetrators of aggression, though this situation is not the best example of that. (right about now is the time I get slandered as an "anti-Semite". Whatever.)

cf
 
From what I recll...Genghis Khan was widely loved. His empire was such a heterogenous civilization (it spanned through so many cultures, countries). They all loved him because apparently once he 'conquered' them, he would let them rule over themselves as long as they paid their taxes,etc to the empire.

Apparently since he was so 'merciful',people loved him...That's what I recall.

If you ever crossed him or were at war with him, that's a TOTALLY different story.

Supposedly he created a system of laws that was fairly enforced, one that everyone including himself was subject to, not based not on religious grounds or divine order. The government and military were relative meritocracies, he forced racial/ethnic integration of his armies, allowed religious freedom. Pretty remarkable for a nomadic illiterate savage.

He also totally ravaged Oshman's Sporting Goods sometime in the late 1980s, which was entertaining.
 
Supposedly he created a system of laws that was fairly enforced, one that everyone including himself was subject to, not based not on religious grounds or divine order. The government and military were relative meritocracies, he forced racial/ethnic integration of his armies, allowed religious freedom. Pretty remarkable for a nomadic illiterate savage.

He also totally ravaged Oshman's Sporting Goods sometime in the late 1980s, which was entertaining.

:laugh::laugh: forward to 1:30......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2a3nbTrO_c
 
While it's hard to argue that they don't "get things done", I'm not so sure the operation (or any operation that readily points to the perps) would be considered a success in the world of covert ops.

Look at the ramifications coming from the European countries who's passports were forged as well as the continued exposure of the fallacy that the Israeli's are "victims" of aggression versus perpetrators of aggression, though this situation is not the best example of that. (right about now is the time I get slandered as an "anti-Semite". Whatever.)

cf

It is not antisemitic to criticize Israel. But singling out Israel out of all proportion to any other party in the middle east for sanction is antisemitic.

Do you care as much about what is happening in Tibet, Darfur, Chechnya or is your moral outrage confined to events in the West Bank and Gaza. Selective moral outrage in this case usually is antisemitic as this Wall Street Journal column so articulately describes:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027104509836989.html
 
Let's not forget who invented the Uzi; Israeli armed forces don't mess around...
 
It is not antisemitic to criticize Israel. But singling out Israel out of all proportion to any other party in the middle east for sanction is antisemitic.

Do you care as much about what is happening in Tibet, Darfur, Chechnya or is your moral outrage confined to events in the West Bank and Gaza. Selective moral outrage in this case usually is antisemitic as this Wall Street Journal column so articulately describes:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027104509836989.html

I have never seen anyone celebrate the Russians wacking the Chechens, yet a couple of people here were celebrating the Israelis wacking the Palestines. Explain that to me in you antisemitic terms.
 
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Insulin : c-peptide ratio? Would that be a useful test in a corpse?

There have been forensic reports that have analyzed this, but it appears to be technically difficult. Insulin is degraded by insulinase in the kidney, so high levels would be present. The key is to not make it suspicious. Outside of the high profile political assassination, very few out of hospital deaths end up in autopsy.

Sux does have a special revenge flair to it.
 
Maybe one of the assassins immigrated to Israel from eastern europe where he was an anesthesiologist, did u think of that ?
 
It is not antisemitic to criticize Israel. But singling out Israel out of all proportion to any other party in the middle east for sanction is antisemitic.

Do you care as much about what is happening in Tibet, Darfur, Chechnya or is your moral outrage confined to events in the West Bank and Gaza. Selective moral outrage in this case usually is antisemitic as this Wall Street Journal column so articulately describes:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027104509836989.html

How about the simple fact that Americans and Europeans are the two largest benefactors of foreign aid to the Israeli state?? Taxpayers in the U.S. and Europe are still "aiding" the state of Israel to the tune of billions of dollars/euros per year.

This aid, to what is considered a rich nation, is every bit the business of American and European taxpayers, as well as to question, with a critical eye, how their money is being spent in lieu of so many fiscal problems right here in the U.S. Notwithstanding the fact that this rich little nation is the WORLD'S FOREMOST RECIPIENT OF FOREIGN AID. So, I tend to ask myself why?

We'll shut down hospitals and fire nurses in California in order to shore up that fiscal crisis, but not a cent less will be spent in direct (dollars and loan guarantees) and indirect (military equipment/technology) in aid to Israel in coming years.

Again, what most need to understand is WHY this is so. And it's really not that hard to figure out.

It's also well known in the U.S. counterinelligence community whom our TRUE friends and allies really are. Israeli espionage activities directed against the United States rank amongst the most prolific. See below, and such "allegations" are too numerous to post. So much for "our greatest friend and ally".

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/sep/03/nation/na-spyprobe3

So, I'm not going to apologize for taking a more critical interest in issues that directly effect the United States, which Chechnya doesn't to any appreciable amount (not that I'm insensitive to the plight of the Chechen woman sniper whom allegedly had her legs torn apart, or for the numerous Russian soldiers whom have been beheaded (on video) and allegedley CRUCIFIED........
 
Notwithstanding the fact that this rich little nation is the WORLD'S FOREMOST RECIPIENT OF FOREIGN AID. So, I tend to ask myself why?

That's a pretty flashy statement, I'm curious as to where this statistic comes from.
 
That's a pretty flashy statement, I'm curious as to where this statistic comes from.

Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion

from the Christian Science Monitor....

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html

The American Educational Trust (AET) is a non-profit foundation incorporated in Washington, DC in 1982 by retired U.S. foreign service officers to provide the American public with balanced and accurate information concerning U.S. relations with Middle Eastern states. AET perceives a dearth in knowledge about the Middle East, Arabs, and Muslims, in the U.S., and pursues an educational mission of "Interpreting the Middle East for North Americans; Interpreting North America for the Middle East."

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/010201/0101015.html

AET's Foreign Policy Committee has included former U.S. ambassadors, government officials, and members of Congress, including the late Democratic Senator J. William Fulbright, and Republican Senator Charles Percy, both former chairmen of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Members of AET's Board of Directors and advisory committees receive no fees for their services.

AET does not take partisan domestic political positions. In general, AET supports Middle East solutions which it judges to be consistent with the charter of the United Nations, international law, the Geneva Conventions, and traditional American support for human rights, self-determination, and fair play.

The common figure given for U.S. aid to Israel is $3 billion per year—$1.2 billion in economic aid and $1.8 billion in military aid. As impressive as this figure is, however, since it represents about one-sixth of total U.S. foreign aid, the true figure is even more remarkable.

Unquestionably, Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. aid since World War II. Estimates for total U.S. aid to Israel vary, however, because of the uncertainties and ambiguities described above. An Oct. 27, 2000 Congressional Research Service (CRS) report, using available and verifiable numbers, gives cumulative aid to Israel from 1949 through FY 2000 (which ended Sept. 30, 2000) at $81.38 billion. On the other hand, last year the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs estimated total aid to Israel through FY 2000 at $91.82 billion.

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=11497

Israel will receive $2.4 billion. Since the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty in 1979, Israel has received up to $3 billion in aid annually from the US.

The following sight is decidedly anti-Israel. So, I'll just upload the text, and you can do the due diligence for your self.

Israel wants free warships from Germany
Sun, 25 Oct 2009 03:26:53 GMT
Font size :

Israel has asked Germany to deliver two warships for free.
In a request that has caught the Berlin government off guard, Israel has asked for the delivery of two expensive German-made warships "free of charge".

The German daily Hannoversche Allgemeine Zeitung reported on Saturday that Tel Aviv has asked Germany to help bolster its defenses by providing a pair of MEKO corvettes that would probably cost hundreds of millions of euros.

Built at the Blohm + Voss shipyard in Hamburg, the ships feature advanced radar-evading capabilities and are exclusively designed to carry US-made missile systems.

Israel receives much of its military funding and equipment from the United States. According to the Wall Street Journal, US military aid to Israel will total $2.55 billion in 2009.

Tel Aviv has also received assistance from Germany over the years.

The Kiel shipyard Howaldtswerken Deutsche Werft had earlier delivered three submarines between 1999 and 2000.

In addition, two more submarines are currently being built in Kiel, costing at least 500 million euros apiece, for which Germany is to pay a third. They are slated to be delivered to Israel by 2012.

Berlin has not yet responded to the request, but according to the Hannoversche Allgemeine Zeitung, "influential politicians in northern Germany" are secretly supporting the deal, claiming it will help German shipyards weather the global economic downturn.

I can reference many, many "mainstream" U.S. sources that elaborate on the fact that Israel (again, a wealthy nation, unless you're an Arab Israeli) is by far the top recipient of U.S. foreign aid.

It's a bit harder to supply this information because many of the European "mainstream" press that dare deal with this issue is typically in their own language which does not facilitate this discussion. But, here's something from Haaretz directly. (an Israeli popular newspaper, i.e. "mainstream")

Germany has paid an estimated $25 billion (17 billion) in reparations to
Israeli Holocaust survivors, who, according to Factor, numbered 350,000 to 400,000 at their peak. It also transferred more than $700 million in goods and services to the Israeli government.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/927160.html



Seriously, this "topic" is endless, and the facts stand for themselves. ****I've done a lot to expose what many Americans are not too aware of. I challenge the dissenters to discredit these accussations.

cf
 
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How about the simple fact that Americans and Europeans are the two largest benefactors of foreign aid to the Israeli state?? Taxpayers in the U.S. and Europe are still "aiding" the state of Israel to the tune of billions of dollars/euros per year.

This aid, to what is considered a rich nation, is every bit the business of American and European taxpayers, as well as to question, with a critical eye, how their money is being spent in lieu of so many fiscal problems right here in the U.S. Notwithstanding the fact that this rich little nation is the WORLD'S FOREMOST RECIPIENT OF FOREIGN AID. So, I tend to ask myself why?

We'll shut down hospitals and fire nurses in California in order to shore up that fiscal crisis, but not a cent less will be spent in direct (dollars and loan guarantees) and indirect (military equipment/technology) in aid to Israel in coming years.

Again, what most need to understand is WHY this is so. And it's really not that hard to figure out.

It's also well known in the U.S. counterinelligence community whom our TRUE friends and allies really are. Israeli espionage activities directed against the United States rank amongst the most prolific. See below, and such "allegations" are too numerous to post. So much for "our greatest friend and ally".

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/sep/03/nation/na-spyprobe3

So, I'm not going to apologize for taking a more critical interest in issues that directly effect the United States, which Chechnya doesn't to any appreciable amount (not that I'm insensitive to the plight of the Chechen woman sniper whom allegedly had her legs torn apart, or for the numerous Russian soldiers whom have been beheaded (on video) and allegedley CRUCIFIED........

I find your view points interesting. I for the most part agree with many of your views: violence begets violence. Physicians are healers, they should not cheerlead death/assasination. I doubt that this "hit" will change the Israeli-Palestinian dynamic--they will still be at war for the forseeable future. Granted this guy is labeled as a "terrorist" by the Israeli's, but I am sure that he is labeled as a "freedom fighter" by the Palestinians.... So who's right? Well, as an American, I will stand for justice: in this case, the two state solution is the only way....
 
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I find your view points interesting. I for the most part agree with many of your views: violence begets violence. Physicians are healers, they should not cheerlead death/assasination. I doubt that this "hit" will change the Israeli-Palestinian dynamic--they will still be at war for the forseeable future. Granted this guy is labeled as a "terrorist" by the Israeli's, but I am sure that he is labeled as a "freedom fighter" by the Palestinians.... So who's right? Well, as an American, I will stand for justice: in this case, the two state solution is the only way....

At best he is a soldier who views himself at war with Israel, thus a legitimate target.
 
How about the simple fact that Americans and Europeans are the two largest benefactors of foreign aid to the Israeli state?? Taxpayers in the U.S. and Europe are still "aiding" the state of Israel to the tune of billions of dollars/euros per year.

This aid, to what is considered a rich nation, is every bit the business of American and European taxpayers, as well as to question, with a critical eye, how their money is being spent in lieu of so many fiscal problems right here in the U.S. Notwithstanding the fact that this rich little nation is the WORLD'S FOREMOST RECIPIENT OF FOREIGN AID. So, I tend to ask myself why?

We'll shut down hospitals and fire nurses in California in order to shore up that fiscal crisis, but not a cent less will be spent in direct (dollars and loan guarantees) and indirect (military equipment/technology) in aid to Israel in coming years.

Again, what most need to understand is WHY this is so. And it's really not that hard to figure out.

It's also well known in the U.S. counterinelligence community whom our TRUE friends and allies really are. Israeli espionage activities directed against the United States rank amongst the most prolific. See below, and such "allegations" are too numerous to post. So much for "our greatest friend and ally".

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/sep/03/nation/na-spyprobe3

So, I'm not going to apologize for taking a more critical interest in issues that directly effect the United States, which Chechnya doesn't to any appreciable amount (not that I'm insensitive to the plight of the Chechen woman sniper whom allegedly had her legs torn apart, or for the numerous Russian soldiers whom have been beheaded (on video) and allegedley CRUCIFIED........


-Israeli spying on the US is totally indefensible and monumentally stupid.
-Outside of Holocaust reparations by Germany there is virtually no European aid to Israel. But plenty to the Palestinians.
-American support of Israel has as much to do with Christian Zionists as it does sympathetic American Jews. Not a lot of Jews in Texas or Alaska or Arizona yet Bush, Palin, McCain have always been overwhelming supporters of Israel.
 
I find your view points interesting. I for the most part agree with many of your views: violence begets violence. Physicians are healers, they should not cheerlead death/assasination. I doubt that this "hit" will change the Israeli-Palestinian dynamic--they will still be at war for the forseeable future. Granted this guy is labeled as a "terrorist" by the Israeli's, but I am sure that he is labeled as a "freedom fighter" by the Palestinians.... So who's right? Well, as an American, I will stand for justice: in this case, the two state solution is the only way....[/QUOTE]

I appreciate and respect your viewpoint. HOWEVER, what exactly does a 2 state solution really mean??

Jews are constantly reminding the WORLD about the horrors of human genocide. Clearly, genocide is a human atrocity.

But, what will be required of a 2 state solution? Essentially, ethnically cleansing of one ethnic/religious group in favor of another. Is this not what the Germans set out to do??

In addition, most Jews outside of Israel embrace a multicultural society in which distinct races and cultures are supposed to "blend together" for the benefit "of all". Really??

So, what are the Israelis concerned about?? A "dilution" of Jewishness, and Jewish identitiy. This is PREVALENT in the Israeli press and much more in Israeli religious teachings. (I can and will provide evidence for this if necessary).

****The hypocricy arises from international Jewry's afront to ANY other group/ethnicity/religion to self-determine their own culture and traditions. In the U.S. they promote inter-racial marriage. In Israel, it's sacrosanct. Literally.

So, the double standards become very obvious, and it's my view that "divide and conquer" is a very effective (and highly recognized method by Jews) method of "diluting" any opposing dominant culture/race.

Think about these ideas objectively.

And Arch (moderator), DO NOT DELETE this thread because it IS relevant, and people ARE interested. This is not hate, and simply a healthy discussion.
I personally condemn hate, violence, and subjugation of any people. Most will agree.

But, if we can chat about "Scotch Whisky" and the sort, we can chat about other things as well.


cf
 
At best he is a soldier who views himself at war with Israel, thus a legitimate target.

Listen, pal, I am not condoning what that guy did to innocent Israeli's. Nor do I condon what Israeli's do to innocent Palestinians. I am a fuggin' American physician and promote peace between the two sides, not war. I do believe that they have tried war for the last 5000 years and that has not produced a "positive" outcome.... So lets drop this "target" talk BS and act like people who are healers, looking for a common good for ALL people....
 
And Arch (moderator), DO NOT DELETE this thread because it IS relevant, and people ARE interested. This is not hate, and simply a healthy discussion.

A discussion that seems to recur with some regularity.

I rarely (if ever) delete threads. As long as the thread stays civil, I am fine to leave it here. When things get ugly or contentious (as sociopolitical threads often do) they get closed or moved to a more appropriate forum.
 
-Israeli spying on the US is totally indefensible and monumentally stupid.
-Outside of Holocaust reparations by Germany there is virtually no European aid to Israel. But plenty to the Palestinians.
-American support of Israel has as much to do with Christian Zionists as it does sympathetic American Jews. Not a lot of Jews in Texas or Alaska or Arizona yet Bush, Palin, McCain have always been overwhelming supporters of Israel.

Yet this is monumentally a problem for "our" counter-inel services.

So, the U.S. gives more money to Israel than any other nation on earth, and we get rewarded with espionage that rivals (and surpasses) any other nation. So much for "good friends and allies" as AIPAC would love to perpetuate.

But the facts speak for themselves. We no longer live in a world of 2,4, and 7. People throughout the world have access to information (some junk, and some great) that offsets any "controlled" media of the past.......

Think for yourselves people. Don't agree with me. Just think for yourselves. That's what's important.

When you watch "Reliable Sources" on CNN Sunday morning, and 4 out of 5 "experts" are Jewish Americans, THINK about whether you're getting the real facts or "spin" on real world events.

When you see the Bush/Cheney "henchmen" named (all Jewish Americans and many dual citizens) of Wormser, Feith, Wolfowitz, Pearle, "Libby" etc. Do NOT think that this has ZERO influence on foreign policy. That would simply be naive. Now, degrees of influence can be debated. But, again, think for yourself, or others will think for you.......

cf
 
Listen, pal, I am not condoning what that guy did to innocent Israeli's. Nor do I condon what Israeli's do to innocent Palestinians. I am a fuggin' American physician and promote peace between the two sides, not war. I do believe that they have tried war for the last 5000 years and that has not produced a "positive" outcome.... So lets drop this "target" talk BS and act like people who are healers, looking for a common good for ALL people....


Let's hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

Both sides minimal conditions for peace are currently mutually exclusive.
 
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I find your view points interesting. I for the most part agree with many of your views: violence begets violence. Physicians are healers, they should not cheerlead death/assasination. I doubt that this "hit" will change the Israeli-Palestinian dynamic--they will still be at war for the forseeable future. Granted this guy is labeled as a "terrorist" by the Israeli's, but I am sure that he is labeled as a "freedom fighter" by the Palestinians.... So who's right? Well, as an American, I will stand for justice: in this case, the two state solution is the only way....[/QUOTE]

I appreciate and respect your viewpoint. HOWEVER, what exactly does a 2 state solution really mean??

Jews are constantly reminding the WORLD about the horrors of human genocide. Clearly, genocide is a human atrocity.

But, what will be required of a 2 state solution? Essentially, ethnically cleansing of one ethnic/religious group in favor of another. Is this not what the Germans set out to do??

In addition, most Jews outside of Israel embrace a multicultural society in which distinct races and cultures are supposed to "blend together" for the benefit "of all". Really??

So, what are the Israelis concerned about?? A "dilution" of Jewishness, and Jewish identitiy. This is PREVALENT in the Israeli press and much more in Israeli religious teachings. (I can and will provide evidence for this if necessary).

****The hypocricy arises from international Jewry's afront to ANY other group/ethnicity/religion to self-determine their own culture and traditions. In the U.S. they promote inter-racial marriage. In Israel, it's sacrosanct. Literally.

So, the double standards become very obvious, and it's my view that "divide and conquer" is a very effective (and highly recognized method by Jews) method of "diluting" any opposing dominant culture/race.

Think about these ideas objectively.

And Arch (moderator), DO NOT DELETE this thread because it IS relevant, and people ARE interested. This is not hate, and simply a healthy discussion.
I personally condemn hate, violence, and subjugation of any people. Most will agree.

But, if we can chat about "Scotch Whisky" and the sort, we can chat about other things as well.


cf

2 state solution = a solution accepted by BOTH sides. Each state accepts the existence and full rights of the other. That is my interpretation. I cannot say if that is what is being negotiated....
 
A discussion that seems to recur with some regularity.

I rarely (if ever) delete threads. As long as the thread stays civil, I am fine to leave it here. When things get ugly or contentious (as sociopolitical threads often do) they get closed or moved to a more appropriate forum.

Arch, I respect your point of view. However, this is not violating any "humanistic" norms.

I'm positive that you're getting PM'd about locking/moving this thread. But, again, we've discussed such things as Scotch, Vodka, Women, etc. on this forum. Anything from snowboarding to vacations...... So, why should this be any different? Sure, it deviates (like others) from the "norm" of anesthesiology, but many of our threads have, be they political, economic, fiscal, social, whatever.

****Any advocacy of hate or genocide will and should be dealt with VERY harshly. I stand by that statement. But, this is not the case in this thread.

cf
 
Let's hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

Both sides minimal conditions for peace are currently mutually exclusive.


No, I ain't into holding hands--perhaps you are into that, but I am not. I have seen my fair share of war. Only a grown man will say promote peace. But, judging by your above response, you would not know anything about that, would you? FYI, yes, I know that the current environment is not conducive to peace, but that does not mean that I will be on an internet forum promoting/cheerleading for "hits" on "targets."
 
Let's hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

Both sides minimal conditions for peace are currently mutually exclusive.

So, based on your sarcasm, you obviously don't advocate "holding hands and singing Kumbaya". Great.

So what IS your solution Doze?? Ethnic cleansing of a distinct group of people from their ancestral homeland?? Please don't tell me Ashkinazi Jews have a legitimate "right" to that same homeland, and to act with impunity to racially "cleanse" the area of all Arabs.

When the Germans wanted to protect their cultural identity from hostile foreign influence (who invited the Jews into Europe?), you had major qualms.... Yet this is exactly what you advocate for yourselves, with very similar consequences for the Palestinians.

Your moral arguement is SO weak that I find it silly....
 
Yet this is monumentally a problem for "our" counter-inel services.

So, the U.S. gives more money to Israel than any other nation on earth, and we get rewarded with espionage that rivals (and surpasses) any other nation. So much for "good friends and allies" as AIPAC would love to perpetuate.

But the facts speak for themselves. We no longer live in a world of 2,4, and 7. People throughout the world have access to information (some junk, and some great) that offsets any "controlled" media of the past.......

Think for yourselves people. Don't agree with me. Just think for yourselves. That's what's important.

When you watch "Reliable Sources" on CNN Sunday morning, and 4 out of 5 "experts" are Jewish Americans, THINK about whether you're getting the real facts or "spin" on rea world events.

When you see the Bush/Cheney "henchmen" named (all Jewish Americans and many dual citizens) of Wormser, Feith, Wolfowitz, Pearle, "Libby" etc. Do NOT think that this has ZERO influence on foreign policy. That would simply be naive. Now, degrees of influence can be debated. But, again, think for yourself, or others will think for you.......


cf

There are six million jews in the US -- 2% of the US population.
thirteen million in the world 0.2% of the world population.

Jews have grossly succeeded out of proportion to their numbers in almost all societies.

Success breeds fear. Fear Breeds Hatred.
 
So, based on your sarcasm, you obviously don't advocate "holding hands and singing Kumbaya". Great.

So what IS your solution Doze?? Ethnic cleansing of a distinct group of people from their ancestral homeland?? Please don't tell me Ashkinazi Jews have a legitimate "right" to that same homeland, and to act with impunity to racially "cleanse" the area of all Arabs.

The israelis are waiting for the Palestinian Ghandi or MLK. Till then better the peace of the security fence.
 
No, I ain't into holding hands--perhaps you are into that, but I am not. I have seen my fair share of war. Only a grown man will say promote peace. But, judging by your above response, you would not know anything about that, would you? FYI, yes, I know that the current environment is not conducive to peace, but that does not mean that I will be on an internet forum promoting/cheerleading for "hits" on "targets."

A grown man recognizes the reality of the situation. Doesn't spout platitudes and honestly acknowledges the fundamental obstacles that exist. But you wouldn't know anything about that would you?
 
There are six million jews in the US -- 2% of the US population.
thirteen million in the world 0.2% of the world population.

Jews have grossly succeeded out of proportion to their numbers in almost all societies.

Success breeds fear. Fear Breeds Hatred.

You can choose to believe that if you wish. However, most people that I know respect successful people (including myself) and do NOT hate them.

Again, your arguements are very weak.
 
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The israelis are waiting for the Palestinian Ghandi or MLK. Till then better the peace of the security fence.

Seriously, can anyone really take this guy seriously? Security fence eh?? So, on who's land will this fence continue to be built. "Jewish land", or Palestinian land?

Which water supplies will it cut off, or guaranteed?? We both know the answer.

Just face it that Israel is using every excuse in the book to ethinical cleanse (i.e. genocide) the region from any Arab existence.

I'll continue this later.
 
You can choose to believe that if you wish. However, most people that I know respect successful people (including myself) and do NOT hate them.

Again, your arguements are very weak.

Successful individuals is not the same as successful groups.

I do believe that Jewish success is the principal reason for historical antisemitism.

Antisemitism has been around a lot longer than 1948. What is your opinion of the reason for historical antisemitism?
 
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