Surface pro 3 vs MacBook for med school

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Awesome Sauceome

Awesome Sauceome

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I am starting med school in the fall. I currently have no computer. I am looking between these two dramatically different laptop options.

I guess you could say I am more of a PC user but I also use Mac computers from time to time at work and they seem pretty solid.

I guess the big question is how much do you think the digitizer pen on the surface would help in med school? I was a big handwritten notes kind of guy in undergrad, I imagine in med school I will do more typing but could see the utility in having the pen option. It seems really cool for annotating power points and PDFs and whatnot; but is it worth it?

****also windows 10 seems like it will be a lot better than widows 8, which windows 8 is one of my major draws to go with a Mac.

I am willing to drop about $1300 max seeing as I only buy a computer once every 5-10 years to begin with.

What do yall think?
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I'm not in med school and I'm an Apple fanboy. From what I've read though, different schools have different requirements when it comes to laptops so you might want to look at that first before you buy anything
 
My school is cool with whatever.

From my understanding of it most required things (tests and such) are done via the iPad Air 2 that they provide for all of the students.
 
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Honestly, the surface pro is an unimpressive toy for people with more money than sense. Hell, tablets are as well honestly. But since you already have a tablet why get a hybrid that will charge you enormously for crap specs? It's 1300 to get an i5, 8gigs ram, and 256 ssd ( non-pci-e btw) and then what? Your computer will be somewhat uncomfortable to use on anything not a table ( lets be frank, you're not going to be using adobe or word without the keyboard attachment).

Simply put, you're not the audience that can sell or buy into the product. You're better off buying a solid computer that can take a hit and manage a lot more than be a toy.
 
Thanks for the advice serenade, you are heading to KCU as well right?

That's definitely something I have thought about, essentially having 2 tablet-ish things.

I guess what has really kept me interested is really the pen. I figure I could make due with whatever keyboard or I could end up getting a Bluetooth anyways, but I really wanted to get an idea of if the digitizer for the surface was really worth it. Do you think I can do the annotations needed with the iPad Air they provide then cool, I'll just get a laptop as my work horse. But if the consensus is that people loved their surface pros (or wish they had one), then I would love to hear what types of notes it was useful for. Or if honestly med school is too fast or people can study stuff without having to physically write or point to stuff.

In reality I only work at desks, so the whole awkwardness of the surface shouldn't play into that. I relax on the couch, I sleep in a bed, I work at a desk. I dont know if I ever studied anywhere other than a flat surface during all of undergrad.
 
buy a laptop. windows 8 is fine, I have no idea why people complain about it. if you don't like metro, don't use metro, simple as that. it's like .000001 % of the OS
 
PL198 said:
buy a laptop. windows 8 is fine, I have no idea why people complain about it. if you don't like metro, don't use metro, simple as that. it's like .000001 % of the OS
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Also windows 10 seems to be showing some promise from what I have seen in the beta. I have to agree with most people though that windows 8 is a burden/annoying.
 
You can annotate fairly easily on iPads with Notability or similar apps, so if that's your biggest concern, just use their iPad for that and get a macbook for everything else. I've had an iPad for almost 3 years now, including 1.5 years of medical school. I've realized that the top uses for it (or any tablet) are: watching Netflix from anywhere in your apartment/house, having your entire iTunes library easily available while driving, and most importantly - entertainment while using the bathroom [(#2) - edit: and sometimes #1, but this has a poor risk:reward ratio] at home. I thought it was going to be hugely convenient for preclinical years, and sometimes it really is a nice way to quickly review class powerpoints, path slides, etc. But for the most part, they just aren't fast/efficient enough to outweigh the benefits of a fully functional and reliable notebook.
 
I used all paper before med school. Now, I use a duo 13, and I really like it. That said, I think the surface is a little better designed. Hybrids are pricy, but it's hard to beat having a nice keyboard when you want and drawing/writing capability when you want. Can't do that with a simple laptop, and tablet keyboards are miserable to use. I wish I didn't have to pay so much for a tablet with a functional keyboard, but I don't see another product out there that does what I want. Just go to the mall and try some stuff out. If you can deal with the tablet keyboards, you can get a ~$400 tablet with an attachable keyboard. If it's a pain for you to use, just remember that you'll have to deal with it for 10+ hours many, many days. 🙁
 
A tablet is still never close to the functionality of a laptop. The surface is the most awkward size. It's like 2x long as it is wide. I can't stand that.
 
From what I've heard, the Surface is great for med school. If you like to read notes in your bed or while pacing/walking around like me, a tablet is aces. I used to be able to study at a table during undergrad, but maybe I've just gotten progressively lazier. There are a lot of videos for anatomy that I would rather watch while lying down rather than during dedicated study time, but that's just me. If you have the fortitude to just sit at a desk and study all the time, there's no real advantage to getting a laptop. But if you do get a Surface, invest in a good stand and a keyboard. I tried using one of those small keyboards for my tiny tablet, and it was a huge pain. Honestly, I can't really tell the difference between a Surface with a sturdy stand and a real keyboard from a regular laptop, so that's not really a huge issue.

But that advice is more for people who don't have a tablet already, which you will. The only thing the Surface will offer you that the iPad won't is a native OneNote application, which is amazing. I don't know anybody who uses OneNote on iPad even though it exists, so I couldn't tell you my thoughts on that. But since you're getting an iPad, I think it would be easier to get a Macbook so that syncing notes and other stuff will probably be easier. I haven't done it, but I'd imagine that Mac to Mac syncing is more hassle-free than cross-OS.

I personally use Windows 8, and have no problem with it. Remember: you're going to be using this computer probably 10-16 hours a day. Most people who have complaints haven't spent any lasting time on it, so you'll overcome that learning curve almost immediately. Not that there really is anything to learn. You're just reading, writing, and using the internet.

Re: specs, for medical school you don't really need high specs. All you're doing is reading, writing, and using the internet. Doesn't really matter if you have an i3 or an i7. There are people here with 15 year old Dell bricks that are doing alright a year in.
 
Like most people have said, check with the med school to make sure they're not going to issue you a laptop. The last thing you want to do is drop a big chunk of cash on a new laptop and then have them give you another one (they still charge you in your tuition so it's never free). And if you don't have the cash right now then you can wait til you're in med school and ask for a cost of tuition bump to tack it onto your med school loan, just be aware of the interest that's gonna accrue.

I've used PC's my entire life and my HP laptop crapped out in me halfway through my first year even though it was only about 3 years old. I tried to get by with an iPad (and some people do) but I just couldn't do it. I liked drawing on notes but I can type soooo much faster. I found myself spending a lot more time working on my notes than I was learning stuff.

About 80% of my class used Mac's and one guys mac was over 5 years old and still working fine so with that, combined with having to learn the new windows 8 junk I decided to make the switch and bought a 13" Macbook Pro Retina. I've never been happier and will probably never go back to PC's. Mac's just work. Period. You open them up, and they're ready to take notes in like 1 second. I can't say I've never had problems with it, but holy crap it is so much more reliable than my PC was. And I can still draw on PDF's and highlight things and take notes no problem, all this can be done natively without having to buy any new apps.

Also, the way you study in med school will be completely different than it was in undergrad. They give you all the pdf's slides or their own pdf notes, so for the most part you will just be marking things and making small notes in the margins on pdfs. You can always grab a sheet of paper or go to a whiteboard and draw something out if need be.

Do yourself a favor. Drop a little extra money and buy a 13" Macbook Pro Retina, get at least a 256gb hard drive too so you don't have to worry about storing all your notes and books on it cause everything is going digital now and it takes up a lot of space. You should be able to do that just inside your price range. Check out www.macrumors.com they have a buyers guide that tells you when a new model is about to come out, the last several new models that came out have added features and actually gotten cheaper too.
 
Thanks a bunch everyone. This has been pretty insightful.

I am pretty darn sure I am just going to go with the mac.

They seem reliable, which is my number 1 concern. I just want it to work dang near perfectly, every time I open it, for at least 5 years. I dont have time to play with crap, I just want it to work.

Then since I will have an ipad and iphone anyways, it just makes sense to stay in the same ecosystem.

Thanks again for all the time y'all have spent giving some advice.
 
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I seriously don't get the " windows 8 junk"

There's literally nothing different besides metro. Which you can turn off in 2 seconds.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
Thanks a bunch everyone. This has been pretty insightful.

I am pretty darn sure I am just going to go with the mac.

They seem reliable, which is my number 1 concern. I just want it to work dang near perfectly, every time I open it, for at least 5 years. I dont have time to play with crap, I just want it to work.

Then since I will have an ipad and iphone anyways, it just makes sense to stay in the same ecosystem.

Thanks again for all the time y'all have spent giving some advice.
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Once you go Mac, you never go back! You can save a bit of dough buying refurbished Macs; my little sister is still using the refurb I bought 8-9 years ago.
 
I am personally getting the Surface. I am not a huge fan of Apple products because they lack overall cross compatibility. Also, Windows products are cheaper because you aren't paying for the name (as much) as you are with Apple. Any app you can get on an iPad, you can get on a Windows tablet (or at least a similar version of it). In terms of a technology product lasting 5 years? Sure, I believe they both would, but if you DID want to replace it for a newer version, it'd be much easier and cheaper to replace a Windows tablet! To me, Windows is a no brainer.
 
deejaymd said:
I am personally getting the Surface. I am not a huge fan of Apple products because they lack overall cross compatibility. Also, Windows products are cheaper because you aren't paying for the name (as much) as you are with Apple. Any app you can get on an iPad, you can get on a Windows tablet (or at least a similar version of it). In terms of a technology product lasting 5 years? Sure, I believe they both would, but if you DID want to replace it for a newer version, it'd be much easier and cheaper to replace a Windows tablet! To me, Windows is a no brainer.
Click to expand...
I agree with your stance, but this bold point is 100% wrong.

For the past year or so I had a windows phone. Then in the beginning of this year I switched over to iphone (it was a free upgrade). It is night and day when it comes to the apps that are out there. As a very simple example that comes to mind: my wife had to wait like 9 months for instagram for her phone, and even then it was like a weird beta thing, simple crap like that is ridiculous. Microsoft put a lot of love into their surface line, but they seriously dropped the ball when it came to advocating for their apps/ecosystem. Maybe by the time windows 10 comes out and this whole "windows app" thing becomes more legitimate in the eyes of app developers, just then maybe things will look better. But seriously, the quality and quantity of apps in the windows market is dramatically worse, I speak from legit experience. Not to mention the updates for apps are usually significantly lagged behind and are worse compared to android and iOS. I am not a fanboy at all, I have given everything a try, thats just how it actually is out in the real world.

I would have been interested in the surface line, in spite of the horrible windows app market for 2 reasons: 1) For the digitizer pen (just plain ole awesome). And 2) Because I would have hope in windows 10 sticking better culturally and being better quality wise. I am sure the surface is awesome (hence I started this thread), but on that one bold point above, have no allusions that the windows and iOS app markets are even remotely close at this current time.

As for your last point. I think that is very true, particularly because non-mac products are definitely cheaper. But in my particular case I just dont care much about having the newest stuff, if anything it pisses me off because then I have to get used to and learn a new thing. I just want something that works and will last me as long as physically possible... Now that I really think about it, there is no legitimate reason to believe that even the surface pro 3 will last 5 years There is actually no proof currently, simply because no one has had one that long. Will the battery crap out after 4 years? No one knows? Will some other feature eventually wear itself out? Not a clue. At least with mac, even with over paying, the proof is in the pudding, I can look around and see people who have been using their macs for 5 or even 10 years with no trouble.
 
I have both and I use both. The Mac is my go to typing machine, whenever I have a paper to write I use my mac. But my surface comes out whenever I have to draw something. It single-handedly got me through Ochem and Physics. And it handles all the theatrical production classes I have to take for my major.

I see tons of kids walking around with massive binders full of notes and handouts, and all I need to take between classes is my surface, and on occasion my macbook.

On that note though, the surface feels more like a supplement to me as opposed to a primary device. I would not want to try and type out an entire paper, or take a lecture worth of notes on that keyboard.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
I really want to consider them, but I have heard too many horror stories about them... Otherwise the thinkpad yoga and the thinkpad helix 2 would be in the running. The thinkpad yoga 3 being a third option (but it doesnt have a digitizer).
Click to expand...

horror stories?
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
I really want to consider them, but I have heard too many horror stories about them... Otherwise the thinkpad yoga and the thinkpad helix 2 would be in the running. The thinkpad yoga 3 being a third option (but it doesnt have a digitizer).
Click to expand...

horror stories about thinkpads? they are literally indestructible.


 
deejaymd said:
I am personally getting the Surface. I am not a huge fan of Apple products because they lack overall cross compatibility. Also, Windows products are cheaper because you aren't paying for the name (as much) as you are with Apple. Any app you can get on an iPad, you can get on a Windows tablet (or at least a similar version of it). In terms of a technology product lasting 5 years? Sure, I believe they both would, but if you DID want to replace it for a newer version, it'd be much easier and cheaper to replace a Windows tablet! To me, Windows is a no brainer.
Click to expand...


This really is a misconception for what it is worth. Most direct CTO or configured to order computers with similar stats are going to be similarly proved.

At that most laptops are also not going to come with PCI-E flash storage which is 2x as fast as conventional budget ssds and about 200/200 read and writes faster than samsung pro 850. And most aren't going to give you a 1440p screen.

When it comes down to it they're overpriced by maybe 100-200 bucks.
 
MedicalBeast said:
horror stories about thinkpads? they are literally indestructible.


Click to expand...



Thinkpads still largely look awful tho. They're a bit versatile since they can be fitted for some discrete gpus and larger fans, but they just look like a plastic fruitcake.
 
Just for some information... Can anyone tell me about the new Intel M processor?

I am starting to see it on a lot of laptops but how does it compare to say an i5? I dont know enough about computers to be able to tell if the stuff I am reading is propaganda for a new product or if its actually better/worse.
 
serenade said:
This really is a misconception for what it is worth. Most direct CTO or configured to order computers with similar stats are going to be similarly proved.

At that most laptops are also not going to come with PCI-E flash storage which is 2x as fast as conventional budget ssds and about 200/200 read and writes faster than samsung pro 850. And most aren't going to give you a 1440p screen.

When it comes down to it they're overpriced by maybe 100-200 bucks.
Click to expand...

I don't think they're overpriced at all, but PCI-E flash is so overrated for average user. Just upgrading to a SSD is going to be a HUGE performance difference.
 
serenade said:
Thinkpads still largely look awful tho. They're a bit versatile since they can be fitted for some discrete gpus and larger fans, but they just look like a plastic fruitcake.
Click to expand...

thats because people that buy lenovos don't do it because they're hip and stylish, they do it because they work.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
Just for some information... Can anyone tell me about the new Intel M processor?

I am starting to see it on a lot of laptops but how does it compare to say an i5? I dont know enough about computers to be able to tell if the stuff I am reading is propaganda for a new product or if its actually better/worse.
Click to expand...

Intel M is in my opinion is a processor more fitted for a tablet than a laptop. It's extremely cpu weak and uses almost no electricity and thus produces no heat.

A M is weaker than an I3.
 
PL198 said:
I don't think they're overpriced at all, but PCI-E flash is so overrated for average user. Just upgrading to a SSD is going to be a HUGE performance difference.
Click to expand...


There's a saying, just because it's fast now doesn't mean it's fast tomorrow. For today you're absolutely right however, for most home users the difference even between raid 0 and an ssd will be minimal. But for those who need higher writes and reads and will continue to, it's a different story.
 
PL198 said:
thats because people that buy lenovos don't do it because they're hip and stylish, they do it because they work.
Click to expand...


That would be a fine argument if I didn't obviously know about specs..::

Also let's be frank, people who want something work build it themselves and make sure that they're not getting generic driver and ram like you will with lenovo.

But that's my opinion. I used a Lenovo all in one and I found it's quality and function a lot weaker than my older MacBook Pro.
 
build it themselves? who builds their laptop themselves? building your own computer is useless outside of gaming and graphic design. - someone who has a custom-built computer and doesn't use it.
 
PL198 said:
build it themselves? who builds their laptop themselves? building your own computer is useless outside of gaming and graphic design. - someone who has a custom-built computer and doesn't use it.
Click to expand...

By build it themselves I meant more like replace parts and pieces. And I think that building it yourself even for none of those things can produce a computer with some advantages. At the very least you're not stuck with a micro atx that way.
 
PL198 said:
build it themselves? who builds their laptop themselves? building your own computer is useless outside of gaming and graphic design. - someone who has a custom-built computer and doesn't use it.
Click to expand...
^^^
With my 760GTX ppt slides never looked so good.
 
Ok... So if the M chip is out, lets talk about something new:

Macbook pro retina
Amazon product ASIN B0096VBXQE
Or the Thinkpad yoga
Amazon product ASIN B00I5F7SCK
That seems like more of a fair comparison than like the macbook pro vs the surface and stuff... I like that the thinkpad would also have a digitizer (similar to the SP3 except this is Wacom and not N-trig). Maybe this would be a happy middle ground?

Assume I will be buying brand new, and I get $100 off of the macbook there, so its 1200.

Is this just going to come down to whether I am a PC or a Mac guy? Or is there something substantial about either of these that would help/support me during the 4 years of medical school.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
Ok... So if the M chip is out, lets talk about something new:

Macbook pro retina
Amazon product ASIN B0096VBXQE
Or the Thinkpad yoga
Amazon product ASIN B00I5F7SCK
That seems like more of a fair comparison than like the macbook pro vs the surface and stuff... I like that the thinkpad would also have a digitizer (similar to the SP3 except this is Wacom and not N-trig). Maybe this would be a happy middle ground?

Assume I will be buying brand new, and I get $100 off of the macbook there, so its 1200.

Is this just going to come down to whether I am a PC or a Mac guy? Or is there something substantial about either of these that would help/support me during the 4 years of medical school.
Click to expand...

a MBP is so simple and just works well. I have a thinkpad, but if I was buying a new laptop today, it would be a MBP and I'm a huge computer person. They just are so convenient and polished from all angles.

A MBP will last you through med school, absolutely 0 questions asked and probably through residency if you want it to.

I'm not a fan of apple taking over everything, but their stuff just flat out performs.
 
That was my big comparison, thinkpad (I think it was the X1 or t440 I was looking at) vs the macbook pro retina. In the end the price was nearly the same and while my mac isn't waterproof, it turns on and is ready to go instantly. I'm serious though, it's a workhorse, I've never had a computer this fast. Once you get used to the OS, you can do so much more stuff. You can have 4 or 5 desktops open at the same time so you can instantly switch between screens. There is just no comparison to windows. And trust me, I grew up with PC's and I'm a computer guy. My first computer was a TRS-80, then a Tandy 286 and on and on. I remember installing Windows 3 when it came out on a huge pile of floppy disks. And I will most likely never go back to windows. Seriously, go to an apple store and spend a little while trying out the OS, you'll be sold.

It comes down to this. I don't want to tinker with my computer anymore, I don't have time for that, I just want to do work. Mac's do work.
 
In a similar vein, I'm a Linux user. Do med schools commonly require you to use Windows only programs?
 
Imo, retina display is the one thing about Macs that just isn't worth the price for most people. Everyone I've talked to said to save the $200-300 unless I was going into graphic design or photography or something like that. I suppose if you're going into rads or maybe path it could help visualize some things, otherwise I don't think it's necessary at all for most people other than to make things look prettier. One of my friends has it and I really wasn't very impressed by the difference between my non-retina display Mac and hers.

I got my Air for about 900 and other than taking some time to adjust (I always used PCs) it's served me well here so far.
 
Stagg737 said:
Imo, retina display is the one thing about Macs that just isn't worth the price for most people. Everyone I've talked to said to save the $200-300 unless I was going into graphic design or photography or something like that. I suppose if you're going into rads or maybe path it could help visualize some things, otherwise I don't think it's necessary at all for most people other than to make things look prettier. One of my friends has it and I really wasn't very impressed by the difference between my non-retina display Mac and hers.

I got my Air for about 900 and other than taking some time to adjust (I always used PCs) it's served me well here so far.
Click to expand...
Well so I dont really care much for the retina thing (I had to ask serenade what the heck it even is haha). But what is nice about the Pro vs the Air is those extra 4gb of ram, and a faster processor. Not sure if I would ever really need that extra speed, nor if anything I do will require more than 4 gb of ram? I multitask a bit I suppose, and having the CD/DVD rom is cool too.

But I guess thats a tough decision... Do I want it to be faster, or do I want to have a bigger SSD. I figure I could always add an SD card and/or use the cloud/onedrive for storage? I have like 250gb onedrive space. Whats your take on all that business?
 
Stagg737 said:
Imo, retina display is the one thing about Macs that just isn't worth the price for most people. Everyone I've talked to said to save the $200-300 unless I was going into graphic design or photography or something like that. I suppose if you're going into rads or maybe path it could help visualize some things, otherwise I don't think it's necessary at all for most people other than to make things look prettier. One of my friends has it and I really wasn't very impressed by the difference between my non-retina display Mac and hers.

I got my Air for about 900 and other than taking some time to adjust (I always used PCs) it's served me well here so far.
Click to expand...


Idk, if you have it natively supported 1440p videos are amazing and much more pleasant to watch than 1080p. My major beef with Air is fundamentally that for the price you're better off always going for the intro macbook pro. 1440p, 8gigs ram, etc > 900p, 4gigs ram, etc.
 
CD/DVD is getting more useless all the time. I don't think I've used the drive in my laptop in at least 2-3 years
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
Well so I dont really care much for the retina thing (I had to ask serenade what the heck it even is haha). But what is nice about the Pro vs the Air is those extra 4gb of ram, and a faster processor. Not sure if I would ever really need that extra speed, nor if anything I do will require more than 4 gb of ram? I multitask a bit I suppose, and having the CD/DVD rom is cool too.

But I guess thats a tough decision... Do I want it to be faster, or do I want to have a bigger SSD. I figure I could always add an SD card and/or use the cloud/onedrive for storage? I have like 250gb onedrive space. Whats your take on all that business?
Click to expand...


It's going to honestly depend on what you keep on your computer. My laptop has maybe 60 gigs of data on it. I keep the rest i.e videos, photos on my external hard drive. To me I don't do anything that requires any of these things to be on my laptop 24/7. I only need my music, pdfs, and some accessory apps.
 
serenade said:
Thinkpads still largely look awful tho. They're a bit versatile since they can be fitted for some discrete gpus and larger fans, but they just look like a plastic fruitcake.
Click to expand...

thinkpads look awesome. i like the simple black and professional look. check out the X1 carbon, its basically a thinkpad macbookpro.
 
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