Surface pro 3 vs MacBook for med school

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

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I think the new MacBook looks fantastic! And that new keyboard is quite intriguing but for $1300 a 1.1 GHz processor is incredibly weak and for that money you can have a much more capable MacBook Pro which has also been updated. But still, the subtle chassis changes to the new MacBook are just perfect..... Gonna have to go with the Pro though.

The pro line is really the only reasonable choice they have atm. They did a good upgrade on them and I think they're now a very good deal.

Macbook is ok but there are issues, namely the M processor being a tablet processor not a laptop cpu and cannot handle much more than internet surfing and some moderate file work. The MacBook Air is now entirely a defeated line. 1440x900 and paying 1k is utterly a joke.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I bought a 15" laptop for college and don't plan on making that mistake again. If you want a bigger screen, do it properly and just get a monitor for use at home.

15 inch I think is the best.

 

[Sandmeezy]

But would a 13" with a 24.5" monitor be good you think? For the sake of saving $500 for 2" (hhheheh) that can go towards the iPad I'm required to purchase.

 

[AM508]

But would a 13" with a 24.5" monitor be good you think? For the sake of saving $500 for 2" (hhheheh) that can go towards the iPad I'm required to purchase.

I have a 13.1 inch PC laptop that runs at 1080p native. It works and looks fine with my 24 inch monitor via HDMI cable.

 

[AM508]

It's less about the money and more about portability. The smaller and lighter your laptop, the more likely you'll be to carry it around with you and actually use it as a laptop. I left my 15" laptop almost exclusively on my desk after my first year of college.

This is very much true. My old laptop was a 17 inch that was like carrying around a boat anchor. A couple of years ago I got my current 13.1 inch and it has been great for portability.

 

[NickNaylor]

It's less about the money and more about portability. The smaller and lighter your laptop, the more likely you'll be to carry it around with you and actually use it as a laptop. I left my 15" laptop almost exclusively on my desk after my first year of college.

Just curious, are you a woman? I find this is more of a concern for women that want to carry their laptop sans power cable in their purse/bag. With the Macbooks, the difference in size is so trivial (relatively) that fitting a 12" vs. 15" in a backpack is essentially trivial. And carrying around a 12" vs. 15" Macbook isn't anymore difficult.

 

[Tman90]

.

 

[PL198]

15 is too big, I prefer 13.

 

[NeuroMaster316]

I'm waiting for the surface pro 4, if it isn't released before I start school then I'll get the 3. Read the review about it, it's amazing and the screen is big enough (that was my primary concern until I checked with a few friends of mine).
I agree that you want something portable, and a 15 inch laptop isn't exactly the way to go.
Additionally, if you're interested in note taking, the Surface Pro 3 has its own Surface Pen which, judging by the reviews, feels like a real pen with customizable buttons.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I'm waiting for the surface pro 4, if it isn't released before I start school then I'll get the 3. Read the review about it, it's amazing and the screen is big enough (that was my primary concern until I checked with a few friends of mine).
I agree that you want something portable, and a 15 inch laptop isn't exactly the way to go.
Additionally, if you're interested in note taking, the Surface Pro 3 has its own Surface Pen which, judging by the reviews, feels like a real pen with customizable buttons.

They say the pro 4 is coming in July. Word also is that there will be a 14 inch version

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

They say the pro 4 is coming in July. Word also is that there will be a 14 inch version

A 14 inch tablet...? Honestly I still have no idea who this is marketed to and why anyone except people with more money than sense would buy it.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

A 14 inch tablet...? Honestly I still have no idea who this is marketed to and why anyone except people with more money than sense would buy it.

Well I mean I would argue it would be us right here? You have a group of med students here that are complaining that they would possibly get the surface, that the pen is very useful, but the surface is a hair too small and doesnt feel enough like a laptop even though its powered like a laptop. So they are making a 14 inch option for those who want the larger screen to move away from the tablet feel, while still having the tablet/digitizer benefits. I mean obviously its a small group, but as an example I can see niche markets for sure.

Right now I am still very much sold on the Mac pro. But either way I will be waiting until July since I will be buying it with a credit card - no need to have that interest tacked on early heh. But I will also wait to see about the surface 4. If they really have a 14 in version, if they make a keyboard that really feels more like a laptop, if the price is right, if they dont slap a stupid Intel M processor in there, and if windows 10 really starts looking solid, I might seriously consider it.

Until some time passes its all up in the air though.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Well I mean I would argue it would be us right here? You have a group of med students here that are complaining that they would possibly get the surface, that the pen is very useful, but the surface is a hair too small and doesnt feel enough like a laptop even though its powered like a laptop. So they are making a 14 inch option for those who want the larger screen to move away from the tablet feel, while still having the tablet/digitizer benefits. I mean obviously its a small group, but as an example I can see niche markets for sure.

Right now I am still very much sold on the Mac pro. But either way I will be waiting until July since I will be buying it with a credit card - no need to have that interest tacked on early heh. But I will also wait to see about the surface 4. If they really have a 14 in version, if they make a keyboard that really feels more like a laptop, if the price is right, if they dont slap a stupid Intel M processor in there, and if windows 10 really starts looking solid, I might seriously consider it.

Until some time passes its all up in the air though.

True, but idk. The last 2 years of my laptop use involves it being in bed or coach. So for me the surface with a non solid keyboard or foundation dies for me quickly.

Everything else I use a desktop for.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

True, but idk. The last 2 years of my laptop use involves it being in bed or coach. So for me the surface with a non solid keyboard or foundation dies for me quickly.

Everything else I use a desktop for.

100% agree with you... Even though I dont ever sit on the couch with a laptop (I am a tall dude so looking down like that gives me a headache). But unless they improve the keyboard, its a no go for me. Microsoft did an excellent job of having the magnetic locking system so that the keyboard doesnt unlatch from the tablet. But when its in your lap it still feels flimsy as crap - the actual keys feel awful/cheap. If they improve that keyboard and really push it to where it can legit compete with a laptop, then we are talking about a real tough decision for me to make. If they basically slap the current keyboard onto the pro 4, then I am for sure going with the mac.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

The reality is that what is the ratio of typing to writing by hand on the surface? Honestly for me it would probably be heavily weighted towards typing. Maybe what like a ratio of 4:1? They have the digitizer down really well and that makes it a useful tool. If they could get that keyboard settled and the size of the screen up then we are talking about this thing having real potential to be a laptop killer. But as for now there are far too many unanswered questions about it, only time will tell as Microsoft brings out the facts.

 

[NickNaylor]

The reality is that what is the ratio of typing to writing by hand on the surface? Honestly for me it would probably be heavily weighted towards typing. Maybe what like a ratio of 4:1? They have the digitizer down really well and that makes it a useful tool. If they could get that keyboard settled and the size of the screen up then we are talking about this thing having real potential to be a laptop killer. But as for now there are far too many unanswered questions about it, only time will tell as Microsoft brings out the facts.

I'll admit that I haven't used a Surface, but anytime I've written on a tablet I've been dissatisfied. I always find typing to be both neater and quicker than writing. I haven't found writing to be implemented well in any format I've used, but perhaps the Surface is a lot different in that regard. I can certainly see the utility of annotating PDFs/PowerPoints on a tablet, but anytime I've tried that I found it to be more of a pain than useful.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I'll admit that I haven't used a Surface, but anytime I've written on a tablet I've been dissatisfied. I always find typing to be both neater and quicker than writing. I haven't found writing to be implemented well in any format I've used, but perhaps the Surface is a lot different in that regard. I can certainly see the utility of annotating PDFs/PowerPoints on a tablet, but anytime I've tried that I found it to be more of a pain than useful.

Yea for sure, the surface is the ONLY tablet I have ever used where the writing is really solid, this is especially true of the pro 3 in comparison to the pro 2. They really did do a good job of it, you have to hand it to them. Now the real question is: knowing that the Surface digitizer is solid, does it actually have any real applicable use in medical school? And that is the golden reason for why I started this thread haha.

 

[NickNaylor]

Yea for sure, the surface is the ONLY tablet I have ever used where the writing is really solid, this is especially true of the pro 3 in comparison to the pro 2. They really did do a good job of it, you have to hand it to them. Now the real question is: knowing that the Surface digitizer is solid, does it actually have any real applicable use in medical school? And that is the golden reason for why I started this thread haha.

Like I said, I imagine it would be very useful for annotating notes or PDFs. Most books nowadays can be found in PDF format, so if you're the kind of person that prefers reading books digitally (I'm not that person) then I could certainly see the Surface being a useful tool. Especially during M3, having access to practice questions and study books for the shelf while you're in the hospital is critical.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Like I said, I imagine it would be very useful for annotating notes or PDFs. Most books nowadays can be found in PDF format, so if you're the kind of person that prefers reading books digitally (I'm not that person) then I could certainly see the Surface being a useful tool. Especially during M3, having access to practice questions and study books for the shelf while you're in the hospital is critical.

For me though, I will also be getting the ipad air 2 from my school... So far through this thread the general concensus that I have been getting is that I could do that stuff on the ipad. What do you think?

 

[NickNaylor]

For me though, I will also be getting the ipad air 2 from my school... So far through this thread the general concensus that I have been getting is that I could do that stuff on the ipad. What do you think?

I would agree with that. If you're going to have an iPad already I don't see the value in getting a Surface as well. I'd rather get a cheaper laptop or a MBP, but that's me.

 

[NeuroMaster316]

They say the pro 4 is coming in July. Word also is that there will be a 14 inch version

Yes a 14 inch one would be just perfect to truly replace a laptop. And regarding people complaining about that being too big for a tablet, it shouldn't be as I'm sure it will be designed in a way for ease of use as a tablet. (Nevertheless, 14 inch is still just a rumor)

OP the main thing about a Surface pro vs an Apple product is the Windows OS. You don't have to run "store apps" on the Surface either, you can run normal program (legacy apps).

And about the note taking bit, it depends on you. You have a lot of stuff that you can access in pdf format and you may want to add notes etc.... And as mentioned above, you'll need something to easily access your pdf files and as far as reviews I've seen from med students/residents, the Surface pro offers great portability and easy access to all your files.
So my safe bet would be on the Surface pro.

 

[Bokeh]

I've got the triple screen going on at home - 15" MBP with 23" x 2 HD monitors. Pretty much my dream setup. It's awesome for charting at home, work, etc.

Which monitors did you end up going with? I've been looking into getting myself an external monitor. I'd have the same set up if I did something like this.

 

[daffy duck]

Which monitors did you end up going with? I've been looking into getting myself an external monitor. I'd have the same set up if I did something like this.

I would also like to know what monitors you got. Im entering med school this fall and would like to upgrade my 2011 13" MacBook Pro to a 2015 11" MacBook Air and maybe a 4K monitor.

But I am unsure of the benefits of a 4K monitor for a study environment. It seems like most consumers use it them for gaming/HD movies. Maybe I should go with a single large monitor or two smaller ones...IDK

 

[deleted500612]

I would also like to know what monitors you got. Im entering med school this fall and would like to upgrade my 2011 13" MacBook Pro to a 2015 11" MacBook Air and maybe a 4K monitor.

But I am unsure of the benefits of a 4K monitor for a study environment. It seems like most consumers use it them for gaming/HD movies. Maybe I should go with a single large monitor or two smaller ones...IDK

Benefits of a 4k monitor for studying is more than you might think. One of the biggest differences in quality between the retina display of a macbook compared to a normal laptop is the smoothness of the text. This makes reading and studying off of a monitor much more comfortable on the eyes and just all around more enjoyable. 4k monitor will also give you a more non-pixelated smooth looking text, much more pleasant for studying than a standard 1080p HD monitor.

 

[daffy duck]

Benefits of a 4k monitor for studying is more than you might think. One of the biggest differences in quality between the retina display of a macbook compared to a normal laptop is the smoothness of the text. This makes reading and studying off of a monitor much more comfortable on the eyes and just all around more enjoyable. 4k monitor will also give you a more non-pixelated smooth looking text, much more pleasant for studying than a standard 1080p HD monitor.

^thanks for the reply. I have not yet used a retina display/4K display and will definitely check some out. I have heard these displays make everything smaller though.

 

[UltimateforFun]

I have both a surface pro 3 and an old mac from the undergraduate days. Honestly, I love OneNote but otherwise the Surface was a big waste of money for me. The stylus is impressive until it becomes unresponsive and inconsistent. More than half of the people in my class who bought Surfaces during the first semester are unhappy with a major aspect (stylus, lack of protection) and some of that is user based, I know. However, I know that my next purchase will be another Apple product for sure (not quite sure what yet but no more Surfaces for yours truly).

 

[NickNaylor]

I would also like to know what monitors you got. Im entering med school this fall and would like to upgrade my 2011 13" MacBook Pro to a 2015 11" MacBook Air and maybe a 4K monitor.

But I am unsure of the benefits of a 4K monitor for a study environment. It seems like most consumers use it them for gaming/HD movies. Maybe I should go with a single large monitor or two smaller ones...IDK

Which monitors did you end up going with? I've been looking into getting myself an external monitor. I'd have the same set up if I did something like this.

I got two of these guys: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo-...lack/6036011.p?id=1219182336709&skuId=6036011. I'm using DVI and have them hooked up to the two Mini DisplayPorts with DVI-to-DisplayPort adapters. I'm very happy with them. Obviously they're not the best monitors you can get - I was working on a budget and really just wanted the extra screen real estate - but I'm pretty impressed with them considering the price.

I kinda want to get a third monitor, but I've heard driving three monitors with the MBP can introduce some issues and it's totally unnecessary. But we'll see.

 

[NickNaylor]

^thanks for the reply. I have not yet used a retina display/4K display and will definitely check some out. I have heard these displays make everything smaller though.

The Retina display is an absolute game-changer. Reading text on the Retina is awesome. And if you're using multiple monitors regularly, OSX puts Windows to absolute shame when it comes to handling multiple monitors. I dual boot my system and using the multiple monitors in Windows is an exercise of frustration. OSX scales everything on the different displays and makes everything look great despite the differences in resolution.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

The Retina display is an absolute game-changer. Reading text on the Retina is awesome. And if you're using multiple monitors regularly, OSX puts Windows to absolute shame when it comes to handling multiple monitors. I dual boot my system and using the multiple monitors in Windows is an exercise of frustration. OSX scales everything on the different displays and makes everything look great despite the differences in resolution.

So sort of diverting from the normal topic at hand. But I have heard more and more about how easy it is now to "dual boot" on a Mac.

So I have done some basic reading into it but honestly most resources just tell you HOW to do it, but don't actually mention why one would do it and/or the pros and cons associated with it.

So a couple questions:
Is dual booting like jail breaking it? As in if you set up your Mac to dual boot, does it essentially wipe it of all the core OS stuff that came on the machine?

Am I getting this right, if you set up to dual boot, you can literally login via windows OR OSX? Why wouldn't everyone just get macs then and do this?

Does windows run essentially perfectly on a Mac machine or are there things that end up goofy about it?

Obviously if I have the option to basically have windows and Mac OS, that would be sweet in case various programs only run on one or the other. But I guess I am like, what's the catch?

 

[NickNaylor]

Yes, dual booting sets up your hard drive such that you can use Windows or Mac. This isn't any king of "jailbreak." Apple actually has a tool (Boot Camp) that will make the process easy and install all of the necessary software to ensure that your hardware works. Doing this will not wipe everything off your drive.

A lot of people don't do it because an OS takes up a lot of space. If you have a 128 GB or even a 256 GB hard drive, it may not be worth it. The OS itself takes 10-20 GB of space, and then you have to allocate space for the actual programs and any files that you're going to use with Windows. At a minimum I'd say that you'll need to use 100 GB for your Windows machine. If you have a small hard drive, that doesn't leave you with too much space on your OSX machine. I've got a 512 GB drive so for me the space isn't an issue.

Windows runs normally on the Mac. There is no appreciable difference between using it on a Mac vs. any other hardware.

I personally don't use Windows because I prefer OSX. Now that I'm used to OSX, I much prefer it. The only reason I dual boot my system is so that I can play H1Z1. Otherwise I just use OSX.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Yes, dual booting sets up your hard drive such that you can use Windows or Mac. This isn't any king of "jailbreak." Apple actually has a tool (Boot Camp) that will make the process easy and install all of the necessary software to ensure that your hardware works. Doing this will not wipe everything off your drive.

A lot of people don't do it because an OS takes up a lot of space. If you have a 128 GB or even a 256 GB hard drive, it may not be worth it. The OS itself takes 10-20 GB of space, and then you have to allocate space for the actual programs and any files that you're going to use with Windows. At a minimum I'd say that you'll need to use 100 GB for your Windows machine. If you have a small hard drive, that doesn't leave you with too much space on your OSX machine. I've got a 512 GB drive so for me the space isn't an issue.

Windows runs normally on the Mac. There is no appreciable difference between using it on a Mac vs. any other hardware.

I personally don't use Windows because I prefer OSX. Now that I'm used to OSX, I much prefer it. The only reason I dual boot my system is so that I can play H1Z1. Otherwise I just use OSX.

Awesome, thanks so much for a quick and detailed response. I am not too tech savvy (hence I am leaning towards Mac heh). So it's nice to have the info laid out in front of me as simply as possible lol.

 

[Bokeh]

I got two of these guys: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo-...lack/6036011.p?id=1219182336709&skuId=6036011. I'm using DVI and have them hooked up to the two Mini DisplayPorts with DVI-to-DisplayPort adapters. I'm very happy with them. Obviously they're not the best monitors you can get - I was working on a budget and really just wanted the extra screen real estate - but I'm pretty impressed with them considering the price.

I kinda want to get a third monitor, but I've heard driving three monitors with the MBP can introduce some issues and it's totally unnecessary. But we'll see.

Thanks for the response! I'm leaning towards grabbing a 4k monitor, but I'm unsure which. Reading on the rMBP 15 is much nicer, and I may not want to go back to 1080. When you said OSX scales everything so that everything looks great, do you feel the difference in reading on your retina display and those monitors is worth justifying the price difference in buying a 4k monitor? Thanks again!

 

[NickNaylor]

Thanks for the response! I'm leaning towards grabbing a 4k monitor, but I'm unsure which. Reading on the rMBP 15 is much nicer, and I may not want to go back to 1080. When you said OSX scales everything so that everything looks great, do you feel the difference in reading on your retina display and those monitors is worth justifying the price difference in buying a 4k monitor? Thanks again!

Yeah... I'd love a 4K but I just can't justify the cost. My workflow is typically one monitor running Netflix/Twitch stream (for which 1080 is fine since I can't stream 4K), one monitor running some kind of software that I'm using for work (Word/PowerPoint/whatever, which is also fine since the Office suite is low res garbage on OSX anyway) and then a web page on the Retina display. The 1080 displays definitely don't look as good as the Retina, but it actually isn't that bad either. I still prefer doing most browsing on the larger monitors because of the size. The text isn't as sharp but even sitting a foot away from the displays it still looks good. I really don't have any complaints, though I imagine if I had 4K displays I wouldn't be able to go back...

 

[AM508]

A lot of people don't do it because an OS takes up a lot of space. If you have a 128 GB or even a 256 GB hard drive, it may not be worth it. The OS itself takes 10-20 GB of space, and then you have to allocate space for the actual programs and any files that you're going to use with Windows. At a minimum I'd say that you'll need to use 100 GB for your Windows machine. If you have a small hard drive, that doesn't leave you with too much space on your OSX machine. I've got a 512 GB drive so for me the space isn't an issue.

.

The real question is, why on earth would you get a system with so little storage? Storage, like RAM, is dirt cheap. I usually dedicate an SSD for OS's and throw at least one 1-3 TB 7200 RPM HDD in for storage (desktop or laptop). Geez...if Apple is only putting in 128 and 256 GB drives that is a real sad state of affairs for them.

 

[NickNaylor]

The real question is, why on earth would you get a system with so little storage? Storage, like RAM, is dirt cheap. I usually dedicate an SSD for OS's and throw at least one 1-3 TB 7200 RPM HDD in for storage (desktop or laptop). Geez...if Apple is only putting in 128 and 256 GB drives that is a real sad state of affairs for them.

They only offer SSDs in their laptops. I believe you can get up to 1 TB of storage now, but that's obviously a pretty expensive option. I'm not sure that 128 GB is even an option anymore. 256 GB might be the smallest you can go.

 

[AM508]

They only offer SSDs in their laptops. I believe you can get up to 1 TB of storage now, but that's obviously a pretty expensive option. I'm not sure that 128 GB is even an option anymore. 256 GB might be the smallest you can go.

And that is where the real problem with Apple lies, there is no ability to customize at all. I mean, I could throw a 1 TB SSD into a PC laptop myself for about $345 whereas Apple charges and arm and a leg for everything and then won't let you service the computer yourself. Plus, there is really no real benefit to doing general storage on an SSD. It is much more cost effective to use a 120-256 GB SSD and just install OS's on there and then run a large high RPM HDD for storage. I guess I will never understand the Apple mentality . C'est la vie.

 

[NickNaylor]

And that is where the real problem with Apple lies, there is no ability to customize at all. I mean, I could throw a 1 TB SSD into a PC laptop myself for about $345 whereas Apple charges and arm and a leg for everything and then won't let you service the computer yourself. Plus, there is really no real benefit to doing general storage on an SSD. It is much more cost effective to use a 120-256 GB SSD and just install OS's on there and then run a large high RPM HDD for storage. I guess I will never understand the Apple mentality . C'est la vie.

Different strokes for different folks. I like the build quality of Apple products. I like using OSX. Apple products absolutely don't offer any sense of "value," and that turns many people off.

When it comes to raw specs, almost anything can beat Apple dollar for dollar. I could've built a beast of a PC for the same price that I paid for my MBP. But that wasn't my priority. I wanted a product that was built well and was enjoyable to use. I paid a premium for it. Just different priorities. Now that my MBP is almost two years old, I still love using it exactly as I did the first day I got it. I've never been able to say the same for any other computer I've owned.

 

[daffy duck]

Yeah... I'd love a 4K but I just can't justify the cost. My workflow is typically one monitor running Netflix/Twitch stream (for which 1080 is fine since I can't stream 4K), one monitor running some kind of software that I'm using for work (Word/PowerPoint/whatever, which is also fine since the Office suite is low res garbage on OSX anyway) and then a web page on the Retina display. The 1080 displays definitely don't look as good as the Retina, but it actually isn't that bad either. I still prefer doing most browsing on the larger monitors because of the size. The text isn't as sharp but even sitting a foot away from the displays it still looks good. I really don't have any complaints, though I imagine if I had 4K displays I wouldn't be able to go back...

Hey Nick, thanks for the details on your work flow. It seems like you have a pretty complex setup (compared to just using a laptop+some textbooks). Does this mean you typically study at home/apartment instead of the library?

 

[NickNaylor]

Hey Nick, thanks for the details on your work flow. It seems like you have a pretty complex setup (compared to just using a laptop+some textbooks). Does this mean you typically study at home/apartment instead of the library?

I was never really much of a library worker. I would work at the library maybe once or twice a week during M1/M2. The major exception was during step 1 studying, when I was at the library everyday. Since step 1, though, I don't think I've been to the library once. I just prefer studying/working at home, and with my fiancé and animals there I prefer to be at home with them than at the library.

 

[rikudo]

Considering the new Macbook but have been PC all my life. For any who have switched: how steep if the learning curve? Is bootcamp a realistic solution for running Windows apps or more a of novelty? Thanks in advance.

 

[AM508]

Different strokes for different folks. I like the build quality of Apple products. I like using OSX. Apple products absolutely don't offer any sense of "value," and that turns many people off.

When it comes to raw specs, almost anything can beat Apple dollar for dollar. I could've built a beast of a PC for the same price that I paid for my MBP. But that wasn't my priority. I wanted a product that was built well and was enjoyable to use. I paid a premium for it. Just different priorities. Now that my MBP is almost two years old, I still love using it exactly as I did the first day I got it. I've never been able to say the same for any other computer I've owned.

Fair enough. Yeah, I am just one of those irritating folks who is persnickety as all hell about customization and the brand of my internal components (ie I prefer Corsair RAM, Western Digital HDD's, Intel chips that are K series, and nVidia GPU's) and how they are put together😉. Plus, I started using Windows in ~1990, so knowing all the ins and outs of that over the years, OSX feels completely foreign and too locked down for my liking. Definitely as you say, different strokes for different folks.

 

[PL198]

And that is where the real problem with Apple lies, there is no ability to customize at all. I mean, I could throw a 1 TB SSD into a PC laptop myself for about $345 whereas Apple charges and arm and a leg for everything and then won't let you service the computer yourself. Plus, there is really no real benefit to doing general storage on an SSD. It is much more cost effective to use a 120-256 GB SSD and just install OS's on there and then run a large high RPM HDD for storage. I guess I will never understand the Apple mentality . C'est la vie.

there's plenty of ability to customize. I'm pretty sure the current MBP uses a standard drive so you could throw in whatever you wanted.

something like the new macbook will not have the hard drive be able to be swapped out with any standard drive because a standard drive literally wouldn't fit(the computer is thinner than a standard SSD).

the only thing 99 % of people will ever change in a laptop is ram and hard drive which can easily be done on all macs without proprietary stuff to push the design.

 

[NickNaylor]

Considering the new Macbook but have been PC all my life. For any who have switched: how steep if the learning curve? Is bootcamp a realistic solution for running Windows apps or more a of novelty? Thanks in advance.

I didn't get my first Mac until M3 and was a Windows/Linux user from there. Take that for what you will.

I love my Mac. OSX is awesome, though Yosemite (the latest iteration) is buggy and I downgraded my install back to Mountain Lion (the previous iteration). It takes a little getting used to, but it's fairly intuitive. You'll find little shortcuts here and there that will make things easier to use. The main advantage from my perspective is window management and multiple desktops. It baffles me that Windows still hasn't implemented multiple desktops (unless they did this with 8.1 - I haven't followed Windows development since the beta of 8). I've been completely converted to OSX and much, much prefer it over Windows.

Bootcamp is nothing more than a partitioning tool. Thus, you will have a fully installed, native Windows experience. It's not emulation software or anything like that. If you wanted (and I don't know why you would), you could simply wipe the drive and just use the hardware as a Windows machine. Windows and all of its programs work just as well as they would on any other hardware.

 

[sazerac]

Considering the new Macbook but have been PC all my life. For any who have switched: how steep if the learning curve? Is bootcamp a realistic solution for running Windows apps or more a of novelty? Thanks in advance.

The learning curve is absurdly shallow. What do you really use a computer for, as a med student? Internet browser? Manage some photos? Write a paper? Create a presentation? Read/annotate a PDF? You could do all of this on any platform, or even in the cloud these days. At my school we can install Microsoft Office for free, but I haven't because Google Docs is plenty and convenient for what I need.

In 1990 I was writing portions of Microsoft Windows. I knows those internals inside out and upside down. I could immediately understand how to use any windows app because I knew what the developer was thinking when they wrote it. The developer was probably using interfaces that I designed myself.

I got my first Apple computer (hadn't ever used one before) in 2013 as a second year med student, and by the end of the day I was fully functioning again with all my data. I haven't looked back. I never installed bootcamp or windows either. Maybe a part of me died because I don't tinker with my computers anymore, but honestly I today just want a tool that runs fast, is light weight, works with my friends' and co-workers' information, and lets me get med student things done. I'd even pay a couple hundred extra dollars for that.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

And that is where the real problem with Apple lies, there is no ability to customize at all. I mean, I could throw a 1 TB SSD into a PC laptop myself for about $345 whereas Apple charges and arm and a leg for everything and then won't let you service the computer yourself. Plus, there is really no real benefit to doing general storage on an SSD. It is much more cost effective to use a 120-256 GB SSD and just install OS's on there and then run a large high RPM HDD for storage. I guess I will never understand the Apple mentality . C'est la vie.

There's a difference between sata-3 interface ssd and pci-e interface ssd/msata ( we're talking apple's pci being as fast as some raid 0 ssds). The latter costs significantly more and is almost impossible to find. I mean there's a muskin one that's like 700 bucks for 256 gigs but that's about it. And it's still slower than apple's pci-e storage.

Let's be fair here. Apple is charging you fine and it's giving you a product without cut corners. Will it cost you a lot? Yes, but it's the right price.

Now regarding lack of customizability. That's apple's large elephant in the room. Their change from customizable to attached to the motherboard is absurd. And while resale value even to them is high. It's unfortunately a huge insult.

 

[AM508]

There's a difference between sata-3 interface ssd and pci-e interface ssd/msata ( we're talking apple's pci being as fast as some raid 0 ssds). The latter costs significantly more and is almost impossible to find. I mean there's a muskin one that's like 700 bucks for 256 gigs but that's about it. And it's still slower than apple's pci-e storage.

You are quite right that there is a difference. SATA III has a max bandwidth of 6 GB/sec whereas the current application of the pci-e interface SSD's in Mac's seems to be 10 GB/sec. That does sound like a big difference but if you look at what the average user is doing, that difference is really only anecdotal, especially given the cost difference. For example, on this system here, I am using a Samsung EVO SSD on a 6 GB/sec SATA III port for OS and productivity and get write speeds in the 450 MB/sec range and reads a bit faster (I don't have any benchmarking software loaded atm so I can't give you exact values). It looks like Mac's using the current pci-e tech are getting about 750 MB/sec. I can load a 1 GB SONAR audio project in just shy of 3 seconds. The same project in theory should load just shy of 2 seconds with the speeds of the Mac. As far as boot time, with my current setup I can go from power on to usable desktop in ~10 seconds. With the Mac SSD tech, all other things remaining equal, it would take about 6 seconds in theory. As for something an average user is doing, like opening documents, they already open so quickly on a standard 6 GB/sec SATA III that there would be no tangible difference to the average user. I would posit that if we set up identical laptops, one with a regular SATA III SSD and one with a pci-e SSD and took them to the mall and let average folks use the computers, it would be unlikely that the majority of them would be able to tell us which one had the pci-e SSD. As far as I am concerned, it is not worth an extra $400 or so for a second or two here and there. When I spend an extra $400 while speccing out a system, I usually find it more advantageous to invest in something that provides a more global performance increase like a high-end Intel i7.

On a side note, the pci-e interface has the potential to be really awesome in the future for both Mac and PC. If they start making use of full pci-e capacity they in theory one could start pushing a 20 GB/sec bandwidth and that would literally make using a computer like turning on a lamp as long as the computer had a CPU capable of keeping up. But in the interest of not becoming a thread pirate...I'll shut up now 😛.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

As much as id like to think ahead I sincerely doubt most laptops are meant to last all that long. So I doubt it will ever last until the 20 gig bandwidth and even then who knows whether it will be useful at that time.

And honestly most people don't even need an i7. A low end quad core i5 probably is more than adequate to suffice the average user.

One thing I hate with oems is the inherent driving up of price by over spec'ing. I don't want your 24 gigs of ram and I don't want an i7 just because I want a decent graphics card. But for builders they're in the business of charging more than less.

 

[AM508]

One thing I hate with oems is the inherent driving up of price by over spec'ing. I don't want your 24 gigs of ram and I don't want an i7 just because I want a decent graphics card. But for builders they're in the business of charging more than less.

Absolutely. That is why I generally avoid all of the big name computer makers like Apple, Dell, Lenovo, et al. Like you say, how they bundle things is absurd. I like to either go through a small company that will take a design sheet from me and make it to my spec, or make it myself. As I said before I am annoyingly persnickety about each component and how it is set up. I am always quite offended by how these big computer makers work, not only driving up the price based upon how they make various limited "tiers" of system but also in raw component markup. I was taking a look at one of those manufacturers the other day, they wanted like $200 for "16 GB of RAM", I can get 16 GB (2x8) of Corsair Vengeance RAM for a little over $100. Why would I want to pay double the cash for cheapo no-name, likely low performance high latency, OEM RAM? Though as we have said, the average user doesn't really know the difference and they are the market share so that's how it goes, I guess.

 

[PL198]

^ and thats the reason those no name small companies stay no name and small, but dell is dell.

honestly I think the offerings from the major OEMs have gotten incredibly better in the last 5 years. 5 years ago, building a custom desktop destroyed what you could buy from dell or HP. today the gap is narrowing

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Absolutely. That is why I generally avoid all of the big name computer makers like Apple, Dell, Lenovo, et al. Like you say, how they bundle things is absurd. I like to either go through a small company that will take a design sheet from me and make it to my spec, or make it myself. As I said before I am annoyingly persnickety about each component and how it is set up. I am always quite offended by how these big computer makers work, not only driving up the price based upon how they make various limited "tiers" of system but also in raw component markup. I was taking a look at one of those manufacturers the other day, they wanted like $200 for "16 GB of RAM", I can get 16 GB (2x8) of Corsair Vengeance RAM for a little over $100. Why would I want to pay double the cash for cheapo no-name, likely low performance high latency, OEM RAM? Though as we have said, the average user doesn't really know the difference and they are the market share so that's how it goes, I guess.

The issue is that making a laptop is... Not the same as making a desktop.

A desktop ideally should be made to a person's needs and desires.

For example I bought an hp recently with relatively good specs and a good deal. About 1300 for a gtx980, 12 g ram, 128 g ssd, an i7, and a prefabricated water cooler.

However at the same time I could have gone with a completely different configuration that would have probably been entirely fine as well and had a much more expandable motherboard to boot.

Now regarding custom builders... Ava, origin, maingear.... Chances are by the time you're done picking out even moderately decent specs... Say a corsair case, a gold psu by seasonic... And a decent gpu like say a gtx 970 or r9 280x you'll be looking at like a 1600 or 1700 price tag.