Surgeon I want to shadow won't respond/might be mad?

[biochemnerd123]

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I was shadowing some surgeons a while back and met this really cool vascular surgeon who was assisting on two of the cases I was observing. I reached out to him to ask if I could shadow him in the future and he seemed open/enthusiastic about the idea, but my hospital access was about to end and I was also going to be busy with other commitments for the following month or so, and we agreed that I would come back to shadow at some point the future.

Fast forward a little bit, and I'm calling the hospital's volunteer department (who organizes this whole thing) and they tell me that the process for them is that the DOCTOR has to be the one to reach out to the volunteer department and let them know it's okay for me to shadow. I've already handed in all the rest of my paperwork to the volunteer department and they told me there's nothing else I can do from my end and that I can't bring the forms to the doctor or get involved on his side of the paperwork (not completely sure if that last part is the case but will check).

This already kind of alarmed me because I know doctors (esp surgeons probably, and no offense to other specialities) are extremely busy people and the last two surgeons were part of a private practice who had someone in their office to handle their side of the paperwork. I emailed this doctor to let him know what the volunteer dept. said about him needing to reach out, and he hasn't responded since. I sent him a follow-up email a week later (also apologizing for giving him the extra work) but there was also no response to that. It's been nearly 4-5 weeks now and he hasn't responded. Is it likely he's annoyed with me/thinks I'm being lazy or not proactive enough? I would totally get it if he thinks that but I'm not sure what I should do to see if he's still interested/making the necessary arrangements for me to shadow.

My other commitments are mostly gone so I can go back to shadowing now, and I'm thinking of sending him a polite email to let him know I'm now free to shadow, and asking him if he's still interested, and apologizing again for not being more proactive/giving him this extra chore? I was also thinking of calling the volunteer department again to ask if there's any way THEY can reach out to HIM, and or let me cc them in the email?

Do you guys think it's likely he'll still be open to me shadowing, or is he mostly disappointed in me? He seems like a really cool person in general and I'm really hoping to learn from him.

tl;dr -- Hospital is putting me in an awkward place with paperwork and the surgeon I want to shadow, making HIM do stuff, doc hasn't replied since and I'm not sure why/what to do or what my chances of shadowing are.

 

[md-2020]

he probably just has too many things to do. also shadows are inconveniencing. given that youve already shadowed some surgery maybe try some primary care instead?

no need to have too much shadowing. you can probably call it good enough on it and focus on other stuff too if you want.

 

[candbgirl]

Why on earth would he be disappointed in you? He's obviously busy, may not remember you and probably doesn't want a shadow at this point. Let it go and find a different speciality or a PCP to shadow. You've done surgery , move to something else.


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[LoveBeingHuman:)]

You made a mistake on your part. We are both pre-meds. And as a pre med, you really don't have any leverage and the doctors you shadow are really only doing you a favor, at their inconvience. It was foolish for you to think that you can put the opportunity off and grab it later. You can't do that as a pre med. If you get an opportunity, you gotta grab it.

 

[SSSMDt]

I once won a shadow experience with a surgeon from my school auction (someone actually bought it for me), and the surgeon never returned my phone calls or emails.. so eff me..

 

[md-2020]

I once won a shadow experience with a surgeon from my school auction (someone actually bought it for me), and the surgeon never returned my phone calls or emails.. so eff me..

damn....selling shadowing experiences??? was it with Dr. Trump or something jeez

 

[SSSMDt]

damn....selling shadowing experiences??? was it with Dr. Trump or something jeez

LOL it was more just a way to support the school that my family thought would be a good idea. I likely could've contacted the surgeon without winning the auction but in any case he still likely wouldn't have responded hahaha.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Call the surgeon's office and ask his/her secretary to secretary if she can email the volunteer dept.

If that doesn't work, move on and do something else. It's not going to affect your application at all.

The surgeon is not disappointed in you. They probably barely even remember who you are (if at all).

 

[biochemnerd123]

It was slightly foolish for you to think that you can put the opportunity off and grab it later.

Okay maybe, but my shadowing access was going to expire two days later, and nothing short of sneaking into the hospital was going to work. He also said it was totally fine for me to come back in a month or two.

no need to have too much shadowing. you can probably call it good enough on it and focus on other stuff too if you want.

Why on earth would he be disappointed in you? He's obviously busy, may not remember you and probably doesn't want a shadow at this point. Let it go and find a different speciality or a PCP to shadow. You've done surgery , move to something else.

I guess I don't need to shadow him for my applications etc. (though I've only ever shadowed those other two surgeons) but I'm still really hoping to learn things from him because I think he did an integrated residency, which I want to ask him about and I think he has an interesting life story. He's also been very nice and funny when I spoke with him in person, didn't mind answering my premed questions, and is not opposed to premeds scrubbing in and standing up close (at least not the one time I asked)!
The other two surgeons were also in a completely different surgical specialty, (ortho) and I want to see other surgical specialities before I move onto PCP or something else. I know it's too soon to really know or decide, but I have an interest in surgery and I want to see more of the specialties.

I also feel like it's bad form to start this conversation with him and then not disappear without finishing it. I first met him at the beginning of my shadowing stint, and didn't see him again until he assisted on another case 3 weeks later. He remembered stuff like where I was going to school and my name so I think/hope he didn't forget me completely?
As I said before, he's really nice, so I think the likeliest scenario is just that he is/was willing to let me shadow, had time to email me before he went on vacation (this was over New Years-ish) and then came back, saw that he had this extra chore to do and has been putting it off/ignoring it or is annoyed that I'm waiting for him to set things up and hasn't bothered to respond to the lazy premed? I've read on other posts that doctors really don't like it when students expect them to set up all the arrangements for them, and I doubt he's that familiar with the whole volunteer-shadowing process to know his hospital requires it to be done this way, esp if other doctors can get their offices to do it for them.
I did tell him that I wouldn't be free to shadow until the end of January so it's possible he was putting it off until the end of Jan.? And now has forgotten about me?

Call the surgeon's office and ask his/her secretary to secretary if she can email the volunteer dept.

Good idea but I tried calling his office number on the hospital webpage -- it just takes me to the Department of Vascular Surgery at the hospital, and when I explained my situation to whoever was answering, she just asked me who I was again/what company I was calling from, didn't seem to understand what I was saying, put me on hold, and then hung up. I guess I could call again and explain myself more clearly??

Dr. Trump

haha if Trump can get an MD then that gives me hope...WAMC for TrumpU?

 

[Nietzsche's Barber]

.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Have you considered it a possibility that your email went into his junk mail folder? Or perhaps that he doesn't even use or check the email you were provided?

All of my partners have a corporate email address. At least two thirds of them never check it and don't have it routed to their Gmail or Yahoo accounts. Point being that I'll bet money, that he rarely checks that business email and or has someone in the office who does it and ignored yours.

As noted above if you really want to get through, you call the office, ask for his medical assistant or office manager and briefly explain why you're calling. If you still don't get a response then call it a day.


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[biochemnerd123]

Have you considered it a possibility that your email went into his junk mail folder? Or perhaps that he doesn't even use or check the email you were provided?

All of my partners have a corporate email address. At least two thirds of them never check it and don't have it routed to their Gmail or Yahoo accounts. Point being that I'll bet money, that he rarely checks that business email and or has someone in the office who does it and ignored yours.

As noted above if you really want to get through, you call the office, ask for his medical assistant or office manager and briefly explain why you're calling. If you still don't get a response then call it a day.

I guess that's possible. I emailed his hospital email, which has worked in the past; when I was emailing him right before New Year's he'd even respond twice that same evening from his iPhone, so I think it's safe to say he checks that account pretty easily/frequently. I've also been replying to the same email chain as last time, so I don't think that that should go straight to his spam/junk folder. I wonder if next time, I can get my email service to send me a "read receipt" so I can at least tell if he sees the email? (or would that be too stalker-y and invasive? I'm really not upset or anything and completely understand why he doesn't want or can't let me shadow, was just really hoping this would work out).

I guess I'll just call his office tomorrow and explain myself more clearly this time. He also gave me his cell phone number in an email, I don't know if I should use it to call and/or text him? I don't know what his schedule is like or when he's not operating/busy, and it also seems a little invasive to go from emailing to calling a personal number after he doesn't respond.

 

[aalamruad]

I was shadowing some surgeons a while back and met this really cool vascular surgeon who was assisting on two of the cases I was observing. I reached out to him to ask if I could shadow him in the future and he seemed open/enthusiastic about the idea, but my hospital access was about to end and I was also going to be busy with other commitments for the following month or so, and we agreed that I would come back to shadow at some point the future.

Fast forward a little bit, and I'm calling the hospital's volunteer department (who organizes this whole thing) and they tell me that the process for them is that the DOCTOR has to be the one to reach out to the volunteer department and let them know it's okay for me to shadow. I've already handed in all the rest of my paperwork to the volunteer department and they told me there's nothing else I can do from my end and that I can't bring the forms to the doctor or get involved on his side of the paperwork (not completely sure if that last part is the case but will check).

This already kind of alarmed me because I know doctors (esp surgeons probably, and no offense to other specialities) are extremely busy people and the last two surgeons were part of a private practice who had someone in their office to handle their side of the paperwork. I emailed this doctor to let him know what the volunteer dept. said about him needing to reach out, and he hasn't responded since. I sent him a follow-up email a week later (also apologizing for giving him the extra work) but there was also no response to that. It's been nearly 4-5 weeks now and he hasn't responded. Is it likely he's annoyed with me/thinks I'm being lazy or not proactive enough? I would totally get it if he thinks that but I'm not sure what I should do to see if he's still interested/making the necessary arrangements for me to shadow.

My other commitments are mostly gone so I can go back to shadowing now, and I'm thinking of sending him a polite email to let him know I'm now free to shadow, and asking him if he's still interested, and apologizing again for not being more proactive/giving him this extra chore? I was also thinking of calling the volunteer department again to ask if there's any way THEY can reach out to HIM, and or let me cc them in the email?

Do you guys think it's likely he'll still be open to me shadowing, or is he mostly disappointed in me? He seems like a really cool person in general and I'm really hoping to learn from him.

tl;dr -- Hospital is putting me in an awkward place with paperwork and the surgeon I want to shadow, making HIM do stuff, doc hasn't replied since and I'm not sure why/what to do or what my chances of shadowing are.

Vascular surgeon? It's probably mimelim. You should just message him on SDN since he's obvi not checking his email.

 

[longhaul3]

Let it be. Starting your first day of medical school you will have access to pretty much every department in the hospital and it will take you all of 30 seconds to find a vascular surgeon to shadow.

I understand you are very interested in this particular surgeon. There is a decent chance he will yet respond to your email(s), but if you come back and email him next year (or whenever your first year is) as a medical student, he will surely make room in his OR for you for a day.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Call the surgeon's office and ask his/her secretary to secretary if she can email the volunteer dept.

If that doesn't work, move on and do something else. It's not going to affect your application at all.

The surgeon is not disappointed in you. They probably barely even remember who you are (if at all).

This is great advice in general when dealing with attendings no matter your level.

OP, I guarantee the surgeon is not harboring any negative feelings. It's just too easy for things like this to drop. Hell I'm junior resident and I have a pile of emails from med students I haven't gotten around to respond to

 

[gallons]

stop stalking the man/woman. Find someone else.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I guess that's possible. I emailed his hospital email, which has worked in the past; when I was emailing him right before New Year's he'd even respond twice that same evening from his iPhone, so I think it's safe to say he checks that account pretty easily/frequently. I've also been replying to the same email chain as last time, so I don't think that that should go straight to his spam/junk folder. I wonder if next time, I can get my email service to send me a "read receipt" so I can at least tell if he sees the email? (or would that be too stalker-y and invasive? I'm really not upset or anything and completely understand why he doesn't want or can't let me shadow, was just really hoping this would work out).

I guess I'll just call his office tomorrow and explain myself more clearly this time. He also gave me his cell phone number in an email, I don't know if I should use it to call and/or text him? I don't know what his schedule is like or when he's not operating/busy, and it also seems a little invasive to go from emailing to calling a personal number after he doesn't respond.

I see...in that case, I'd give up.

You've contacted him via a known good email, more than once, with no response.

Since this is not urgent, life or career changing, I'd say that for whatever reason he's busy/not interested and pushing it would annoy me.

 

[biochemnerd123]

I see...in that case, I'd give up.

You've contacted him via a known good email, more than once, with no response.

Since this is not urgent, life or career changing, I'd say that for whatever reason he's busy/not interested and pushing it would annoy me.

Okay after reading everything, I feel better about letting it go. However, I was thinking about reaching one last time to give him another chance to respond. He seemed very laid-back and open to letting me shadow when we were emailing over his vacation, and I did say I wouldn't be free until "the end of January" which is around now.

I was thinking of just saying something along the lines of "Hey, my commitments are a little less demanding now, so I'm free to shadow whenever, if you're still interested" to also give him a way out if he doesn't want me to shadow anymore. I think if I call the volunteer department or the vascular surgery department and explain or do more asking around, I might be able to find a way to take the paperwork off his hands. I just wouldn't want to push the burden of having a shadow back into his hands if he's genuinely not interested anymore vs. just too busy to respond. What do you guys think?

 

[candbgirl]

Let it go seems to be the prevailing response, but you obviously won't so do what you want to do. Remember, you don't need it for your app. . There seems to be a deeper reason for you continuing to pursue this so do whatever.


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[bruins08]

Okay after reading everything, I feel better about letting it go. However, I was thinking about reaching one last time to give him another chance to respond. He seemed very laid-back and open to letting me shadow when we were emailing over his vacation, and I did say I wouldn't be free until "the end of January" which is around now.

I was thinking of just saying something along the lines of "Hey, my commitments are a little less demanding now, so I'm free to shadow whenever, if you're still interested" to also give him a way out if he doesn't want me to shadow anymore. I think if I call the volunteer department or the vascular surgery department and explain or do more asking around, I might be able to find a way to take the paperwork off his hands. I just wouldn't want to push the burden of having a shadow back into his hands if he's genuinely not interested anymore vs. just too busy to respond. What do you guys think?

If you're "still interested" is actually "still willing." But the much better answer is simply to let it go

 

[Winged Scapula]

If you're "still interested" is actually "still willing." But the much better answer is simply to let it go

Exactly.

OP is the one that who is "still interested"; the surgeon is potentially willing but I can guarantee you he's not interested in having students shadow him.


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[piii]

Shadowing is the lowest of the low of ECs. And it's the lowest of the low of priorities for that doc. Just move on.