Tail Coverage - Yikes

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vitriol102

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Hello,

Leaving an interventional pain management practice after 14 months. Worked as a non-interventionalist PM&R. Need to purchase tail and they are quoting $34K. Any ideas? Any companies that you would recommend. This is Florida if that makes a difference.

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Usually will be around a year or two of annual premiums...
May see if malpractice at your new position will pick up "Nose coverage" for you
 
When I was in Florida I used The Doctor's Company. You absolutely need to call around for this - priced vary dramatically. PM&R sometimes is a totally different price than Anesthesia.
 
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I have been at an interventional PM&R practice in the midwest for almost 2 years and got a tail quote for just over 10K, so I highly doubt you can't get a better price with someone else. My insurance company only operates in the midwest or I would tell you to try them. I'm guessing FL is generally worse for malpractice.
 
I have been at an interventional PM&R practice in the midwest for almost 2 years and got a tail quote for just over 10K, so I highly doubt you can't get a better price with someone else. My insurance company only operates in the midwest or I would tell you to try them. I'm guessing FL is generally worse for malpractice.

What company is that if you don’t mind sharing? I’d like to have them as a backup
 
Had the same rude awakening as I went from interventional to noninterventional pmr, was originally 40 K but then after 2 years of non interventional pmr was 19K, practice in PA, so had to pay 19K when closing practice... but when I was looking at another opportunity, hospital employed, they did offer nose coverage, as did a multi specialty group
 
Thanks for the replies. Looking into nose coverage. Also contacted other companies.
 
1 vote for The Doctors Company.
They are reasonable, well priced, send out very useful legal info, and very responsive. Also, they can break up your Med mal into monthly/Quarterly payments without interest. Lastly, I am on autopay monthly, and they were nice enough to automatically delay all payments for a few months due to Covid19. Not that I needed it, but it was a good gesture on their part.
 
Usually will be around a year or two of annual premiums...
May see if malpractice at your new position will pick up "Nose coverage" for you


agree with this- a few other pieces of advice
-Make sure you are comparing apples to apples quotes. Some lower priced tail premiums may have bare bones coverage limits (Eg $500,000/$1m limits that your future employer may not accept. Some health systems (like mine) require proof of $1M/$3M tail limits coming into employment.

consider engaging a broker to “shop” for you. Gallagher is a pretty reputable firm I’ve worked with in the past. Lots of times the fees are more than offset by savings and they do a lot of the legwork for you. Many times the health system hiring you can also shop your coverage on your behalf- just make sure they actually follow thru with that and get a copy of your coverage binder for proof (I’ve seen this fall through the cracks before and physicians who thought they were covered were not)

Many health systems (if you are pursuing health System employment) will negotiate covering this for you if you impress in your interview. You can use it as a negotiating item and state that if you terminate your contract within X years (2 Yrs is pretty common), you will payback a pro rata portion. Note, if you can, try and negotiate that repayment is waived if you are terminated without cause by your employer. If they make cuts, you could get stuck with a hefty payback (although for 14 months of coverage your premium shouldn’t be too bad). I’d also suggest you push hard on negotiating that into your non compete (get a waiver if terminated without cause). What you don’t want to do is sign your employment agreement and then ask the health system to pay your tail (seems obviously but happens more than you would think). They may either think you are being sneaky or incompetent and didn’t budget for it

I’m an executive at a large health system of about 1,000 employed docs/APPs. I handle our contract negotiations and acquisitions so hopefully my perspective is welcome here (although I know many of you have a low opinion of us “suits”, which in some cases is spot on, but not all are cut from the same cloth)

I have an awful back (years of rugby) and am also a younger (34) pain patient who was on my way to a pretty serious fusion but worked with a pain doctor over the course of a year to get my life back, so do feel a debt of gratitude to your specialty and it’s unique challenges in dealing with the Wrvu hampster wheel, tougher patients, bad referrals, ect. I did the shots, PT, RFA and ended up with a ZFUZE from my pain doc and was able to drop opioids completely after being on them for about a year

If I can be a resource with business related questions, negotiating strategy, the practice acquisition process, I’ll do my best to offer the perspective on how admins “think”. Not all of us are bad eggs!
 
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Very useful info. Maybe consider starting a thread on what you think is important from your perspective?
 
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Very useful info. Maybe consider starting a thread on what you think is important from your perspective?

I would be happy to- can you provide a few themes or questions/bugaboos you’d like a perspective on? My work is broad, so I’m wondering what would be the most value.. or I could just set up a Q and A, but I’m curious about what you care most about:
-contract renewal comp negotiation? Common benchmark considerations? How fair market value determination works? Post fellowship ‘First job’ contract? Private practice wind down toward retirement options? Contract ‘gotchas”? Vibrant practice acquisition by health system considerations? Admin roles/compensation? How to make the CMO fall in love with your capital equipment ‘ask’? Exclusive coverage arrangements, ect.?
 
I would be happy to- can you provide a few themes or questions/bugaboos you’d like a perspective on? My work is broad, so I’m wondering what would be the most value.. or I could just set up a Q and A, but I’m curious about what you care most about:
-contract renewal comp negotiation? Common benchmark considerations? How fair market value determination works? Post fellowship ‘First job’ contract? Private practice wind down toward retirement options? Contract ‘gotchas”? Vibrant practice acquisition by health system considerations? Admin roles/compensation? How to make the CMO fall in love with your capital equipment ‘ask’? Exclusive coverage arrangements, ect.?

Thanks for offering!

Well, I’m currently at a private practice and and have learned from experience how cut throat contract and financial negotiations can be. This is my 3rd practice. I have learned that certain owners just don’t want a partner(even though they promise this), instead they want a workhorse doing procedures all day for a salary. I’ll tell you, I work hard, but also now understand when to cut my loses.

With that in mind, it’s hard to ask about what is a relevant topic unless I’m in the midst of a scenario.
I will say, the “contract gotchas” definitely raised an eyebrow. Besides non-competes(which are discussed to death) maybe there are other ones that you may consider valuable?
 
Thanks for offering!

Well, I’m currently at a private practice and and have learned from experience how cut throat contract and financial negotiations can be. This is my 3rd practice. I have learned that certain owners just don’t want a partner(even though they promise this), instead they want a workhorse doing procedures all day for a salary. I’ll tell you, I work hard, but also now understand when to cut my loses.

With that in mind, it’s hard to ask about what is a relevant topic unless I’m in the midst of a scenario.
I will say, the “contract gotchas” definitely raised an eyebrow. Besides non-competes(which are discussed to death) maybe there are other ones that you may consider valuable?

A few high level thoughts
-Indemnification: Always have an attorney review this section. You’ll want it to be mutual and make sure it is not too strong. Basically this means you’d hold your “boss”/partner harmless from any expenses incurred that may not be covered by your malpractice policy, generally for your misconduct. Indemnification language is pretty standard in many independent contractor arrangements when you carry your own malpractice but is sometimes part of employment agreements as well. Depending on language, if your boss is named in an action (a patient alleges you sexually harassed them or alleged you seemed impaired when you botched a procedure), there’s an argument you need to pay your bosses legal bills. You’ll want to make sure it’s not too overbearing and cuts both ways (Mutual indemnification)

Non disparagement clause: let’s say you and your boss are oil and water and it doesn’t work out unrelated to your clinical aptitude. This prevents him from badmouthing you to the hospital CEO impacting your future employment

-Intellectual property language: Make sure it’s clear who owns “what”. If you write a book during your off hours or develop a device on your garage- that should belong to you and not your employer. However if you are developing something during work hours with your employer’s resources/staff/supplies, your employer may have a right to the profits from it (surgeons/proceduralists tend to make the biggest deal out this)

If you are precepting a resident or student, that can slow you down a bit and impact your collections. Your employer may be reimbursed for this from the university- try to get a cut of that money (generally paid hourly or as a stipend) to make you “whole” for the extra time spent between patients explaining things to a student

Since you are paid on collections you are at risk for payer mix and rev cycle performance, both of which are generally outside your control. Consider some high level performance metrics to hold your employer to In order to ensure you aren’t negatively Impacted if they botch revenue cycle. Make sure you have the right to audit/have ready access to your financial data. For instance if you consistently are seeing 100 patients per week and your paycheck all of a sudden drops 20% you have a right to investigate to figure out why. Also hard code in your contract that you’ll receive monthly detailed financial statements of your activity to ensure you are actually being paid what you are entitled to (if you are paid 50% of collections, make sure that matches the monthly reports/aren’t any errors)

malpractice: make sure it’s crystal clear whether you have a claims based or occurance based policy if employer is providing coverage. Your tail should be roughly 2x your annual premium unless you have a big loss history. I’ve seen some physicians resign and not aware they are responsible for their own tail and are in a bind. We (My health system) sometimes reimburse independent contractors for their malpractice premiums if they exclusively practice within our facilities

you referenced non compete but non solicitation is also important- read that section carefully- it may prevents you from bringing staff with you if you leave or having contact with your former patients to recruit them to your new site. If you want to start up your own practice outside your non compete radius, it prevents you from mailing a letter to patients or contacting them directly

CME/licenses/med staff dues: see if your employer will pay for this, as they are required for you to do your job. My health system pays generally $5k per year as a point of reference

those are a few thoughts- hope they are helpful. Wrote this on my phone so excuse the awful grammar
 
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