Taking a Masters.

[Raimes]

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I am applying to Masters programs as we speak. But I was wondering for those of you who took Masters to better your GPA what was your major?
I'm applying for animal science.
Also out of those, who did a non-thesis Masters?
How long did it take you?

TIA.

 

[crittergal]

I am applying to Masters programs as we speak. But I was wondering for those of you who took Masters to better your GPA what was your major?
I'm applying for animal science.
Also out of those, who did a non-thesis Masters?
How long did it take you?

TIA.

While I can't speak from a BTDT standpoint, I too am in the process of applying for a masters program. The one I'm applying for is a 2 yr MS in lab animal science, first year is curriculum based and second is an internship/practicum.

I looked at the 1 yr non-thesis programs at both CSU and NCSU but was worried about yet another competitive applicant pool. There seem to be an atypically large number of folks that applied this year, thus will not be accepted. I suspect many of those would pursue similar programs to increase their odds during next year's application cycle.

The MSLAS seemed like a good option for me, especially since it's an area of personal interest. Also, I couldn't commit myself to a thesis based program if I wasn't completely passionate about the research. That is never a good plan.

Just my $0.02

ETA: Also, usually masters programs are a minimum of 18 months-2 yrs. The CSU/NCSU MS are exceptions.

 

[Marsala]

I am finishing my Master's in entomology (starting my PhD, gotta have a plan B). My advisor will let me start vet school if I get accepted.

It's taken me 3 years, but I have been taking tons of classes and dragging it out. I could have finished last year, but I wanted to take advantage of my tuition remission and take classes to improve my GPA.

Non-thesis, in my opinion, is a bad idea. It seems to be for those who aren't interested in going any further, which isn't the idea that you would want to put forward.

I am lucky that my advisor lets me design my projects to fit my needs (veterinary related).

 

[Niteangel]

Hi! I am currently completing my final semester in the Master's of Laboratory Animal Science Program and I would HIGHLY recommend it for anyone who feels they need a boost in GPA. My Undergrad GPA was uber low, and since the program is 48 credits, and it will count as my last 45 credits to give me a boost. The program will also show that you can take higher level graduate courses and do well (vet schools should like this).

The program is two years, non-thesis. There were a few people in my class who worked full time and did the program full time. I did my first year full time and currently I am completing my second year over two years, so I can focus on gaining stellar experience at work and maintain good grades.Its really personal preference, and I think Drexel prefers students to do the program Full-time.

Hope this helps 😳

 

[laitmanvet]

Hi! I am currently completing my final semester in the Master's of Laboratory Animal Science Program and I would HIGHLY recommend it for anyone who feels they need a boost in GPA. My Undergrad GPA was uber low, and since the program is 48 credits, and it will count as my last 45 credits to give me a boost. The program will also show that you can take higher level graduate courses and do well (vet schools should like this).

The program is two years, non-thesis. There were a few people in my class who worked full time and did the program full time. I did my first year full time and currently I am completing my second year over two years, so I can focus on gaining stellar experience at work and maintain good grades.Its really personal preference, and I think Drexel prefers students to do the program Full-time.

Hope this helps 😳

I just finished a thesis-based master's in microbiology. I also had a low GPA and took ~30 credits of upper level science classes.
I've also heard that a "heavy" science load in grad school looks good on an application. I made sure to do a thesis-based master's as I want to go into research.

 

[futureapppsy2]

.

 

[Raimes]

Well that's very dissapointing about NCSU, because I applied there, and that's my top choice.

I would be going full time, I don't understand why it would take 2 years, if I could finish 30 credits in a year.

I've upped my gpa significantly, but I want to do more, and I can handle 15 credits a semester.


If I were to take a master's program and say I get in next year, would they not allow it because I did not finish the program?

 

[nyanko]

Well that's very dissapointing about NCSU, because I applied there, and that's my top choice.

I would be going full time, I don't understand why it would take 2 years, if I could finish 30 credits in a year.

The NCSU program is a 1-year non-thesis program 😕

 

[No Imagination]

Keep in mind, graduate classes, while upper level, and harder, tend to be inflated (grades), and vet schools know this (even came up on my interview).

Also, Thesis masters are viewed 'better' then non-thesis.

I am not sure what the course load is in other schools - but in most graduate schools, 9 credits is considered 'full time', so that in addition to some obvious grade inflation can work against you. But certainly an MS will help you, if nothing else, shows your commitment and ability to handle a diverse level of work.

The NCSU program is a 1-year non-thesis program 😕

I am honestly not sure how I feel about all these 1 year non-thesis programs. Unfortunately, what you can do with a Masters as a terminal degree is pretty limited as it is - adding to the pool a bunch mix 1 year non-thesis only seems like it will, in the long run, devalue a currently undervalued degree. Personally, I'd like to see more of a push towards thesis level masters, make the degree worth something again, but thats just my opinion.

Hi! I am currently completing my final semester in the Master's of Laboratory Animal Science Program

I never knew of such a program - thats pretty cool

 

[crittergal]

The NCSU program is a 1-year non-thesis program 😕

I guess that wasn't too terribly clear. They do have research based, thesis masters programs. The one I was referring to is their Masters of Physiology, which is a 1 yr non-thesis program. It sounds somewhat similar to the plan-b program at CSU.

 

[nyanko]

I am honestly not sure how I feel about all these 1 year non-thesis programs. Unfortunately, what you can do with a Masters as a terminal degree is pretty limited as it is - adding to the pool a bunch mix 1 year non-thesis only seems like it will, in the long run, devalue a currently undervalued degree. Personally, I'd like to see more of a push towards thesis level masters, make the degree worth something again, but thats just my opinion.

When I spoke with my current MS thesis adviser* about beginning a Masters under her, she made it abundantly clear that the only option for me was a thesis based degree, even though my program technically has an option to take a comprehensive exam and write a review. I wanted the thesis option anyway, though. I think that exhibits quite well the opinion of many faculty members on non-thesis based Masters programs.

*who was, incidentally, on the DVM adcom the year I was rejected post-interview

edit: it's true that many graduate courses have inflated grades, though I wish there were a way to distinguish which ones didn't...

 

[Raimes]

Therefore.. taking a master's might not be the best way.. I don't understand the inflation.

 

[nyanko]

Therefore.. taking a master's might not be the best way.. I don't understand the inflation.

Well, I think it depends. For instance, in CSU's 1 year plan B (non-thesis) MS, the set of courses you would be taking include some upper division ones and graduate ones that may or may not have the same inflation as typical graduate courses.

I think the thing is, many graduate level courses are more based on subjective things like contributions to class discussions and such, rather than objective ones like exams. Not to mention that most graduate programs require students to maintain above a 3.0 to stay in good standing, and most graduate students are pretty bright anyway*.

The exams we do tend to have are more gauging our abilities related to being able to solve research problems. For example, in my population and quantitative genetics course, grades were determined by 2 exams. The exams were take-home exams, with some questions being of the "Here's some data, compute the following values for it and then discuss the implications of your analysis" type, and others being of the more theoretical type, like "What is the heritability of sex?" or "Design a study to find loci for leash-pulling in dogs." So it's less about your ability to retain and recall than it is about your ability to reason through a problem logically, which in a typical lecture based vet curriculum is not how most classes tend to be run. So they might be thought of as poor predictors of success in veterinary school** based on that. I only wish that the schools could see that comparatively to others I got a higher grade, even if 30% of the class got A's.

*in many graduate courses, the scale usually ends up ending at a B- or so, so an A- is basically like getting a B, and B+ and B are basically like getting a C, and B- is basically failing since we have to maintain above a 3.0
**though IMO it would be a good predictor of success in actually being a veterinarian

 

[ColoradoDVM]

I earned a non-thesis MS in environmental health to show recency ( and improved) grades. In addition to coursework needed for my program, I needed to update a few pre-reqs for vet school. I really only entered the grad program for the purpose of gaining admission into a PVM program. ( Absolutely wanted to go further 😀) As it turned out, in addition to showing that I could handle upper division science coursework, I was able to learn better study habits & correct old problems with exam taking. As a non-trad student, the non-thesis MS served my needs. My first semester, I only took 11 credit hours, but then took coursework over the summer to show 3 recent semesters on my application. I took a 4th semester this past fall but could have circumvented that last semester. Also worked almost full-time thru-out.
I think thesis/ non-thesis choice depends on individual circumstances. Non-thesis provides a great opportunity for older students to come back and show recency but may not be the best choice for some younger students. I am glad that my time back earned me an MS and not just an assortment of coursework and no degree.

 

[nyanko]

I think thesis/ non-thesis choice depends on individual circumstances. Non-thesis provides a great opportunity for older students to come back and show recency but may not be the best choice for some younger students. I am glad that my time back earned me an MS and not just an assortment of coursework and no degree.

I don't think it has to do with age, but with your goals. I want to go into research, thus for me the thesis option is really the only one. But, I am going to say something that might come off a little bit mean here: I feel like it is more difficult to do original scientific research and write a thesis in addition to taking courses than it is to take a couple of extra courses. So no, I don't consider a non-thesis based MS as equal to mine in any way and am honestly a bit annoyed that it is considered the same at all.

I feel like if you want to show recency by taking upper division sciences, get a second bachelors or just do a postbac, because really that's what a non-thesis based MS is.

 

[Wolphcats]

I am getting a masters in Zoo and Aquarium Science. It is non-thesis, and took me 2.5 years (hopefully, lol).

 

[No Imagination]

I feel like if you want to show recency by taking upper division sciences, get a second bachelors or just do a postbac, because really that's what a non-thesis based MS is.

But… it’s not the students fault; it’s the fault of the school, administration (for allowing the program) and the department for offering it. As a student, who’s intention is getting into vet school, and needs to increase grades and or take 1-2 pre-requisites, I would CERTAINLY recommend a non-theses MS (one or two years, two years preferred) instead of a 2nd BS. Who wants a second BS when you can get an MS much easier and faster?

 

[eringobraugh]

I did a non-thesis masters but I was asked to participate in 3 phD students' projects so I got a lot of animal science courses that weren't offered at my undergrad and a TON of research and large animal experience, plus, I taught 5 sections of bio. For me, a thesis just wasn't possible because there was no way I would have finished in 2 years since the project I would have been working on required WAY more time than I had to offer. On the upside, I got to do lots of different things instead of focusing on one project. But, it was really a means to an end , I only did it to get into vet school and I thought it was a better option that going back and retaking classes I took 4 years prior. If you wanted to use your masters as a stepping off point in case you didnt get into vet school (i.e. continue on with a phD instead or work in industry) anything other than an MS isn't really going to help you that much

 

[ColoradoDVM]

But… it’s not the students fault; it’s the fault of the school, administration (for allowing the program) and the department for offering it. As a student, who’s intention is getting into vet school, and needs to increase grades and or take 1-2 pre-requisites, I would CERTAINLY recommend a non-theses MS (one or two years, two years preferred) instead of a 2nd BS. Who wants a second BS when you can get an MS much easier and faster?

If research is one's goal, then a thesis-based MS is warranted. However, a non-thesis based MS often involves 16 or more semester hours of upper division science courses. That kind of schedule could demonstrate an ability to manage upper division vet med coursework. If acceptance into a vet program is your goal, I think it would be a mistake to go for a 2nd BS or postbac. Thesis based MS are different, therefor not equal to a non-thesis based MS. For my purposes, my professional, non-thesis based MS was better. If non-thesis MS is an option and non-thesis MS= vet school, then why not go for it?

 

[No Imagination]

Thesis based MS are different, therefor not equal to a non-thesis based MS.

But as a degree, they are one in the same, both are MS

For my purposes, my professional, non-thesis based MS was better. If non-thesis MS is an option and non-thesis MS= vet school, then why not go for it?

I agree with you here!

 

[sumstorm]

But, I am going to say something that might come off a little bit mean here: I feel like it is more difficult to do original scientific research and write a thesis in addition to taking courses than it is to take a couple of extra courses. So no, I don't consider a non-thesis based MS as equal to mine in any way and am honestly a bit annoyed that it is considered the same at all.

While I admit to feeling that way in the core sciences, I don't always feel that way with psych, sports med, tech scienes, education, etc. I think non-research MS developed to address practical needs in some fields.

 

[nyanko]

^^Yeah, I will grant that one, but then I think that it should be called a Masters of something else, not Science.

I did a non-thesis masters but I was asked to participate in 3 phD students' projects so I got a lot of animal science courses that weren't offered at my undergrad and a TON of research and large animal experience, plus, I taught 5 sections of bio. For me, a thesis just wasn't possible because there was no way I would have finished in 2 years since the project I would have been working on required WAY more time than I had to offer. On the upside, I got to do lots of different things instead of focusing on one project.

In the course of my thesis-based MS, here are things that I am doing or have done aside from coursework:

-My independent thesis project (behavioral experiments, characterizing a complex trait and analyzing its heredity and segregation)
-Genotyping a pedigreed population, estimating population parameters through genotypes and pedigree, looking at health and diversity, and comparing the parameters
-Handling the computational side of a rhesus macaque comparative genome study
-Running statistical analyses for others in my lab and other labs
-Managing my PI's cat colony
-Setting up and monitoring anesthesia for electroretinograms
-Was a TA for 3 quarters, but am getting paid as a GSR now

So I don't think that being in a thesis-based MS necessarily limits you to focusing on one thing, at least not in my experience! As with any degree or experience, you get out of it what you put into it. Sounds like you got a lot out of your MS as well, good for you. 😉

 

[BlacKAT33]

-Managing my PI's cat colony

lol is this what i think it is? haha how many would that be?

 

[nyanko]

It's a breeding colony used for genetics research. Number of cats varies but we've always got kittens around. Most get adopted out after we determine whether they are affected for traits we're studying and bank DNA from them.

 

[BlacKAT33]

It's a breeding colony used for genetics research. Number of cats varies but we've always got kittens around. Most get adopted out after we determine whether they are affected for traits we're studying and bank DNA from them.

wow a REAL research colony! i wasnt sure if that was literal or that your PI owns lots of cats and needs a sitter lol. cat colonies are so rare! even at NIH where we use almost every model possible, we have no cats. Its also nice that they can be adopted out even though they are used in research

 

[nyanko]

We have at least three feline research colonies here on campus. I do my main research at the largest one (not my PI's), and actually, my two cats are from there. Note the badass ear tattoo sported by the best cat in the world, Ridley:

 

[eringobraugh]

^^Yeah, I will grant that one, but then I think that it should be called a Masters of something else, not Science.



In the course of my thesis-based MS, here are things that I am doing or have done aside from coursework:

-My independent thesis project (behavioral experiments, characterizing a complex trait and analyzing its heredity and segregation)
-Genotyping a pedigreed population, estimating population parameters through genotypes and pedigree, looking at health and diversity, and comparing the parameters
-Handling the computational side of a rhesus macaque comparative genome study
-Running statistical analyses for others in my lab and other labs
-Managing my PI's cat colony
-Setting up and monitoring anesthesia for electroretinograms
-Was a TA for 3 quarters, but am getting paid as a GSR now

So I don't think that being in a thesis-based MS necessarily limits you to focusing on one thing, at least not in my experience! As with any degree or experience, you get out of it what you put into it. Sounds like you got a lot out of your MS as well, good for you. 😉

Yeah I absolutely agree you get out of it what you put in. I got to pick and choose the "Fun" classes that other people on the thesis course didn't have the time or energy to take, at least I felt that way about some people in my program. It sounds like you get to do a lot more than the people at my school did which is awesome. Maybe they are just lame

 

[jos05]

This is a little random, but do we know for sure what schools will accept graduate work as part of the last 45-gpa and those that won't?