Taking days off to interview while on audition rotations

[Philotic]

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I know this is generally frowned upon because you want to impress the program you're auditioning at...but for previous cycle applicants/current residents, did you guys specifically say that you needed a day off for interviews? Or just asked for a personal day? I assume most programs know that applicants interview at multiple places in the interview heavy months, but I am not sure of the etiquette of it all since this is the first time I'm applying.

Any input would be appreciated!

 

[samac]

Don’t schedule more than a couple per rotation. They understand.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

My thought is that nothing is guarenteed. If you have an interview, you should take it. I would try to limit the amount but at the end of the day, I need to match and that audition may or may not even interview.

 

[DennisReynolds]

These next few months are going to a ****fest on how I go about keeping my school out of the loop of how many days I am taking off... letting my sub-I folks know how bat**** crazy my school is on absences and begging and pleading with them to not mark any absences on my rotation evals.

I will be buying a lot of donuts and coffee these next couple of months.

🙁

 

[Philotic]

These next few months are going to a ****fest on how I go about keeping my school out of the loop of how many days I am taking off... letting my sub-I folks know how bat**** crazy my school is on absences and begging and pleading with them to not mark any absences on my rotation evals.

I will be buying a lot of donuts and coffee these next couple of months.

🙁

Sounds stressful! It's gonna be a long few months for all of us, but hopefully worth it all in the end. Good luck!

 

[DO2015CA]

These next few months are going to a ****fest on how I go about keeping my school out of the loop of how many days I am taking off... letting my sub-I folks know how bat**** crazy my school is on absences and begging and pleading with them to not mark any absences on my rotation evals.

I will be buying a lot of donuts and coffee these next couple of months.

🙁

I wouldn’t bank on them not reporting. Many places fill out whatever form your school gives them and if your schools form asks about days off then that’s what they’ll do. If your school doesn’t then I doubt they would go out of their way.

 

[DennisReynolds]

I wouldn’t bank on them not reporting. Many places fill out whatever form your school gives them and if your schools form asks about days off then that’s what they’ll do. If your school doesn’t then I doubt they would go out of their way.

Depends on how you approach it. I’ve asked preceptors for whole weeks off and asked them to please not let my school know. They oblige because when I’m in clinic I’m not a ***** and work my ass off and explain to them what I’m going through with my school’s stupid ass policies. ‍♂️

 

[zero0]

These next few months are going to a ****fest on how I go about keeping my school out of the loop of how many days I am taking off... letting my sub-I folks know how bat**** crazy my school is on absences and begging and pleading with them to not mark any absences on my rotation evals.

I will be buying a lot of donuts and coffee these next couple of months.

🙁

Take note lurking premeds. This is just some of the unforseen bs you sign up for when you go DO.

 

[DO2015CA]

Depends on how you approach it. I’ve asked preceptors for whole weeks off and asked them to please not let my school know. They oblige because when I’m in clinic I’m not a ***** and work my ass off and explain to them what I’m going through with my school’s stupid ass policies. ‍♂

Yes but preceptors are not residency programs. I did and I recommend doing what you are trying but preceptors that are community physicians are different than actual training programs. Of course n=1 now but but my residency is far more standardized than any of my preceptors were so they go by whatever evaluation they are given

 

[DennisReynolds]

Take note lurking premeds. This is just some of the unforseen bs you sign up for when you go DO.

and sooooo much more.

Just wait on it pre-meds.

Your boy is working on a legit write-up on these last 4 years going through a DO program... I'ma give y'all the raw real-life truth about everything.

Nothin' but the real.

Just gotta match first lol

#WaitOnIt #reVIEWsComin'Soon

 

[bogle8]

and sooooo much more.

Just wait on it pre-meds.

Your boy is working on a legit write-up on these last 4 years going through a DO program... I'ma give y'all the raw real-life truth about everything.

Nothin' but the real.

Just gotta match first lol

#WaitOnIt #reVIEWsComin'Soon

People have been giving the raw truth for years about DO programs. It didn’t stop you or me from matriculating and it won’t stop future applicants.

 

[DennisReynolds]

People have been giving the raw truth for years about DO programs. It didn’t stop you or me from matriculating and it won’t stop future applicants.

No it won't but it will for sure as hell will motivate young kids who were confused about MD vs. DO programs who ended up choosing DO rather than going full force with MD like I did to work their tails off to go to an MD program over a DO program any... frickin'... day of the week.

I wish I had known better but honestly.. med school in its entirety is a scam.


I have come to the realization that I am literally paying $50K+ a year for a "token" and registration number to be able to sit for COMLEX/STEP board exams... contracts with hospitals and preceptors to shadow or "practice" our skills we half-assedly learned through out-of-date admin.. and the right to participate in a match that depends on board scores and school reputation anyway.

School doesn't and didn't help me with jack.

As a matter of fact, they made things much harder than it needed to be from a administrative standpoint.

But if I can help even ONE pre-med and sway them from the DO path when and IF they have MD as an option.. I will consider my work worth it ESPECIALLY with this merger and restructuring of COMLEX board exams and such.

I'm thankful to be in medical school tbh... but it is also because of own hard work and lack of ****ty advice from my school admin to be where I am.

And god bless the 4th years and upperclassmen who kept it real from me as well and shared the same sentiment.

 

[ciestar]

Take note lurking premeds. This is just some of the unforseen bs you sign up for when you go DO.

My MD school partakes in this too. Only allows three days per four week rotation for interviews. Yet, we need to attend 12 for best odds of matching. Seems legit. Some clerkships are cool with letting you miss because “thats why you went to med school”. Others are strict and really adhere to it..

Me? Im taking an entire block off. Just easier.

 

[Sardonix]

But how many DO students really went to a DO school by choice instead of an MD school?

 

[darknecrosforte]

I have come to the realization that I am literally paying $50K+ a year for a "token" and registration number to be able to sit for COMLEX/STEP board exams... contracts with hospitals and preceptors to shadow or "practice" our skills we half-assedly learned through out-of-date admin.. and the right to participate in a match that depends on board scores and school reputation anyway.

School doesn't and didn't help me with jack.

As a matter of fact, they made things much harder than it needed to be from a administrative standpoint.

But if I can help even ONE pre-med and sway them from the DO path when and IF they have MD as an option.. I will consider my work worth it ESPECIALLY with this merger and restructuring of COMLEX board exams and such.

Or if you're impulsive and have a high credit score, you pay an extra 10-20K to get a real education by doing VSAS your entire 4th year while your school tries to screw you over by trying their hardest to get you to cancel great rotations due to "unauthorized split" scheduling. On top of the $55K/year

 

[DO2015CA]

and sooooo much more.

Just wait on it pre-meds.

Your boy is working on a legit write-up on these last 4 years going through a DO program... I'ma give y'all the raw real-life truth about everything.

Nothin' but the real.

Just gotta match first lol

#WaitOnIt #reVIEWsComin'Soon

You say this, heck I said this, but honestly after you match it just doesn’t matter anymore. You are on your way up. You will impart your wisdom on people from time to time but it will be a waste to write some novel on how you got screwed. I’m still bitter about a lot of things but at the end of the day I’m just over it.

 

[Ho0v-man]

My MD school partakes in this too. Only allows three days per four week rotation for interviews. Yet, we need to attend 12 for best odds of matching. Seems legit. Some clerkships are cool with letting you miss because “thats why you went to med school”. Others are strict and really adhere to it..

Me? Im taking an entire block off. Just easier.

When I initially read that I thought of MD students with similar complaints. I think DO students think every sh*tty thing our schools do is DO specific when really, as said above, medical education is just stupid.

 

[zero0]

No it won't but it will for sure as hell will motivate young kids who were confused about MD vs. DO programs who ended up choosing DO rather than going full force with MD like I did to work their tails off to go to an MD program over a DO program any... frickin'... day of the week.

I wish I had known better but honestly.. med school in its entirety is a scam.


I have come to the realization that I am literally paying $50K+ a year for a "token" and registration number to be able to sit for COMLEX/STEP board exams... contracts with hospitals and preceptors to shadow or "practice" our skills we half-assedly learned through out-of-date admin.. and the right to participate in a match that depends on board scores and school reputation anyway.

School doesn't and didn't help me with jack.

As a matter of fact, they made things much harder than it needed to be from a administrative standpoint.

But if I can help even ONE pre-med and sway them from the DO path when and IF they have MD as an option.. I will consider my work worth it ESPECIALLY with this merger and restructuring of COMLEX board exams and such.

I'm thankful to be in medical school tbh... but it is also because of own hard work and lack of ****ty advice from my school admin to be where I am.

And god bless the 4th years and upperclassmen who kept it real from me as well and shared the same sentiment.

I feel ya. I fully anticipated that my school would be completely useless in helping get the specialty I want. I just didn't anticipate the degree to which they would actually hinder me. Like actively sabotage my future. It's just shady the stuff that goes on here.

 

[jurassicpark]

It's part of the game. They will expect you to be interviewing. However, if this is really a spot you want minimize the amount of days because you want to maximize their exposure to you. And try not to schedule many during the audition rotation. I remember driving to the airport in the middle of the night, sleeping on the couch in the airport, changing in the bathroom, interviewing then flying right back red-eye to resume the rotation the next morning.

 

[Sardonix]

I feel ya. I fully anticipated that my school would be completely useless in helping get the specialty I want. I just didn't anticipate the degree to which they would actually hinder me. Like actively sabotage my future. It's just shady the stuff that goes on here.

How so? I mean I have plenty of ideas, but curious.

 

[Medic741]

Can’t wait to match / graduate to do a write up as well. Pre-med DO’s walk away while you still can

 

[jurassicpark]

No it won't but it will for sure as hell will motivate young kids who were confused about MD vs. DO programs who ended up choosing DO rather than going full force with MD like I did to work their tails off to go to an MD program over a DO program any... frickin'... day of the week.

I wish I had known better but honestly.. med school in its entirety is a scam.


I have come to the realization that I am literally paying $50K+ a year for a "token" and registration number to be able to sit for COMLEX/STEP board exams... contracts with hospitals and preceptors to shadow or "practice" our skills we half-assedly learned through out-of-date admin.. and the right to participate in a match that depends on board scores and school reputation anyway.

School doesn't and didn't help me with jack.

As a matter of fact, they made things much harder than it needed to be from a administrative standpoint.

But if I can help even ONE pre-med and sway them from the DO path when and IF they have MD as an option.. I will consider my work worth it ESPECIALLY with this merger and restructuring of COMLEX board exams and such.

I'm thankful to be in medical school tbh... but it is also because of own hard work and lack of ****ty advice from my school admin to be where I am.

And god bless the 4th years and upperclassmen who kept it real from me as well and shared the same sentiment.

Are DO's having problems rotating students through training sites? Do most of them rely on preceptorships?

 

[zero0]

How so? I mean I have plenty of ideas, but curious.

I'll leave it to the imagination. Maybe I'll write up a dissertation from an alt one day on why my school and, let's face it, almost all DO schools should be avoided (and some MDs as well). I'd hate for something to come back to me. My school does patrol these message boards and has an extremely malignant culture that discourages internal criticism. People here are scared to even complain on "anonymous" evaluations. People have been called out in the middle of class before and publicly ridiculed for saying something negative on an eval. Any non-anonymous complaint pretty much guarantees you a meeting with the SPC. Think long and hard premeds, OMM is the least of the bs you'll be dealing with.

 

[NVO]

My MD school partakes in this too. Only allows three days per four week rotation for interviews. Yet, we need to attend 12 for best odds of matching. Seems legit. Some clerkships are cool with letting you miss because “thats why you went to med school”. Others are strict and really adhere to it..

Me? Im taking an entire block off. Just easier.

We don't get vacation months. Apparently lots of MD schools get like 1-2 full months that they can take off! Isn't that crazy

 

[ciestar]

We don't get vacation months. Apparently lots of MD schools get like 1-2 full months that they can take off! Isn't that crazy

We’re given 10 weeks of flex time to use however we want

 

[Misery to Okay]

When the decision is between DO or re-applicant, I would always advise DO. The time, stress, cost to apply for each cycle is not fun. It's easy to criticize DO and what they have to go through, but at least you're in the position to be upset about a system rather than crossing your fingers to get into med school each year.

tldr: DO sucks but it sucks less than carrib or reapplying.

 

[Chibucks15]

Are DO's having problems rotating students through training sites? Do most of them rely on preceptorships?

No. Its a mix. And while the issues with rotations are amplified with DO schools, many of the MD students I've rotated with have similar complaints. It's a lot of things that people love to complain about on here. I'm not saying MD schools don't have better rotations by in large, but they also have many of the same issues.

There are still miles to go for certain DO schools (read: new ones) to get up to par, but the established ones have mostly good sites. Search on here if you want more details though its everywhere

 

[Dr.Bruh]

Am i the only one here having a blast on rotations and seeing and doing cool stuff? Lol.

 

[Philotic]

Am i the only one here having a blast on rotations and seeing and doing cool stuff? Lol.

You're not alone! I had an awesome 3rd year and learned so much. Got a glimpse of a lot of different things and had options to pick some cool selectives. It really is school dependent I think.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

We’re given 10 weeks of flex time to use however we want

And there is the difference. We have 4 weeks of 'flex time' and that time includes our board prep time.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

When the decision is between DO or re-applicant, I would always advise DO. The time, stress, cost to apply for each cycle is not fun. It's easy to criticize DO and what they have to go through, but at least you're in the position to be upset about a system rather than crossing your fingers to get into med school each year.

tldr: DO sucks but it sucks less than carrib or reapplying.

You are giving antiquated and bad advice. You should absolutely do at least 2 cycles before going DO. As a desparate outsider you have no idea the penatly that coming from a DO school is, and you probably won't fully know till your 300k in debt and worried about matching. Sorry not sorry.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

No. Its a mix. And while the issues with rotations are amplified with DO schools, many of the MD students I've rotated with have similar complaints. It's a lot of things that people love to complain about on here. I'm not saying MD schools don't have better rotations by in large, but they also have many of the same issues.

There are still miles to go for certain DO schools (read: new ones) to get up to par, but the established ones have mostly good sites. Search on here if you want more details though its everywhere

Even established DO schools have weak sites. MD rotations are standardized much better. They lectures and didactics throughout their rotations and generally are focused on learning rather than scut.

However, I do feel that as a result of taking initiative I have received a superior clinical experience than most of my MD peers. The problem is I actually had to want that to get it, at my own site you could skirt by being an observer if you really wanted. That is not an option with the way academic medical centers are set up.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Are DO's having problems rotating students through training sites? Do most of them rely on preceptorships?

Most DO's are rotating with preceptor attendings. This isn't a problem if they allow you to get involved in the care and teach you. It becomes a problem when you are used as scut and not taught at all. But an attending preceptor is different than a nursing style preceptorship where you barely do anything. You are much more involved as a medical student than nursing.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

But how many DO students really went to a DO school by choice instead of an MD school?

I would say about 10% or so. These people usually regret it, but they do exist.

 

[Chibucks15]

Even established DO schools have weak sites. MD rotations are standardized much better. They lectures and didactics throughout their rotations and generally are focused on learning rather than scut.

However, I do feel that as a result of taking initiative I have received a superior clinical experience than most of my MD peers. The problem is I actually had to want that to get it, at my own site you could skirt by being an observer if you really wanted. That is not an option with the way academic medical centers are set up.

Idk I’m at an academic center for my rotations and I could easily fade to the back and hide if I wanted to. Besides presenting maybe a patient or two I don’t see how MD world would be different (then again I don’t have direct experience)

 

[BorntobeDO?]

When I initially read that I thought of MD students with similar complaints. I think DO students think every sh*tty thing our schools do is DO specific when really, as said above, medical education is just stupid.

Wait till you do an away at a real academic program. When you see how the 3rd year of MD school is structured at a state school you will know we got jobbed.

But thats not even the biggest thing. Its the support. My school actively sabotages me for no reason or just pure laziness. I asked for a rotation to specify that it was inpatient and they wouldn't even do that. They said 'we don't differentiate between inpatient and outpatient.' WTH? I literally told them that one of the residencies I was applying for required it, and they wouldn't even change a few letters on a record to accurately reflect what service I was on. That is so minimal effort. The Md schools bend over backwards trying to help their students.

I went to a dinner for interested 4th years at a away. While there the chair came up to me and started telling me about transition years. He was saying how if I didn't match I should apply to a transition year cause it doesn't effect my future funding for medicare/residency. He then mentioned how this MD school makes a couple transition slots each year to help its students who didn't match. Beyond the fact that this guy actually came over to give me advice as a visiting student, he in one conversation revealed how much more willing that program was to help its students than mine. You think a DO school will pay out money to make a transition year for its students? Then I have a bridge to sell you.

But wait, there's more: I was talking to an MD 4th year about our personal statements and how many times we had redone it. He mentioned that he had sent to 5 professors in our specialty and they had all replied back and given feedback. My school has one professor in my specialty. I did a rotation with this chair and sent them my PS during the rotation. They said they would look at it and give me feedback as well as write me a letter. Not only did this professor not give me a letter like they said, they didn't give me any feedback at all on my statement. I talked to another DO from a different 'original' DO school and he had the same experience.

I don't know how else to explain it. Wanting to go DO is deciding that a marathon isn't hard enough, so you put rocks in your shoes and pay a guy to mug you multiple times on the course. ***

Anyway, thats all the rant I got for tonight.



***Unless you want primary care in community IM or FM. Then you just skirt by and make sure you pass. DO is just fine at getting that.

 

[Neopolymath]

Wait till you do an away at a real academic program. When you see how the 3rd year of MD school is structured at a state school you will know we got jobbed.

But thats not even the biggest thing. Its the support. My school actively sabotages me for no reason or just pure laziness. I asked for a rotation to specify that it was inpatient and they wouldn't even do that. They said 'we don't differentiate between inpatient and outpatient.' WTH? I literally told them that one of the residencies I was applying for required it, and they wouldn't even change a few letters on a record to accurately reflect what service I was on. That is so minimal effort. The Md schools bend over backwards trying to help their students.

I went to a dinner for interested 4th years at a away. While there the chair came up to me and started telling me about transition years. He was saying how if I didn't match I should apply to a transition year cause it doesn't effect my future funding for medicare/residency. He then mentioned how this MD school makes a couple transition slots each year to help its students who didn't match. Beyond the fact that this guy actually came over to give me advice as a visiting student, he in one conversation revealed how much more willing that program was to help its students than mine. You think a DO school will pay out money to make a transition year for its students? Then I have a bridge to sell you.

But wait, there's more: I was talking to an MD 4th year about our personal statements and how many times we had redone it. He mentioned that he had sent to 5 professors in our specialty and they had all replied back and given feedback. My school has one professor in my specialty. I did a rotation with this chair and sent them my PS during the rotation. They said they would look at it and give me feedback as well as write me a letter. Not only did this professor not give me a letter like they said, they didn't give me any feedback at all on my statement. I talked to another DO from a different 'original' DO school and he had the same experience.

I don't know how else to explain it. Wanting to go DO is deciding that a marathon isn't hard enough, so you put rocks in your shoes and pay a guy to mug you multiple times on the course.

Anyway, thats all the rant I got for tonight.

This post summarizes how I feel as well. No real/legit home programs and dean's who don't give a flying **** about you are the real issues with DO school. MD students get dedicated, vacation time, clinical research opportunities thrown at them, advising/mentorship, and admin that might suck (because admin) but aren't like "you can only miss 2 days a rotation during interviews." It's just ****ing embarassing.

 

[ciestar]

And there is the difference. We have 4 weeks of 'flex time' and that time includes our board prep time.

Yeah..
We also got two weeks for board prep.
That is ridiculous. Sorry 🙁

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Yeah..
We also got two weeks for board prep.
That is ridiculous. Sorry 🙁

Not your fault. You guys should absolutely take advantage. I wrote stuff for future creeping premeds who don't understand the difference between a DO and a MD school. Most will undoubtedly not listen because of their proximity to the Y axis in Dunning-Kruger and because of an irrationale belief that they will somehow do much better in med school than people who performed better than them as premeds. But for those few who do, I write to you. If you interviewed at MD and got waitlisted like I did, just take the time to make your app better. Trust me, future you will regret in ways you can't really understand right now if you don't.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Wait till you do an away at a real academic program. When you see how the 3rd year of MD school is structured at a state school you will know we got jobbed.

But thats not even the biggest thing. Its the support. My school actively sabotages me for no reason or just pure laziness. I asked for a rotation to specify that it was inpatient and they wouldn't even do that. They said 'we don't differentiate between inpatient and outpatient.' WTH? I literally told them that one of the residencies I was applying for required it, and they wouldn't even change a few letters on a record to accurately reflect what service I was on. That is so minimal effort. The Md schools bend over backwards trying to help their students.

I went to a dinner for interested 4th years at a away. While there the chair came up to me and started telling me about transition years. He was saying how if I didn't match I should apply to a transition year cause it doesn't effect my future funding for medicare/residency. He then mentioned how this MD school makes a couple transition slots each year to help its students who didn't match. Beyond the fact that this guy actually came over to give me advice as a visiting student, he in one conversation revealed how much more willing that program was to help its students than mine. You think a DO school will pay out money to make a transition year for its students? Then I have a bridge to sell you.

But wait, there's more: I was talking to an MD 4th year about our personal statements and how many times we had redone it. He mentioned that he had sent to 5 professors in our specialty and they had all replied back and given feedback. My school has one professor in my specialty. I did a rotation with this chair and sent them my PS during the rotation. They said they would look at it and give me feedback as well as write me a letter. Not only did this professor not give me a letter like they said, they didn't give me any feedback at all on my statement. I talked to another DO from a different 'original' DO school and he had the same experience.

I don't know how else to explain it. Wanting to go DO is deciding that a marathon isn't hard enough, so you put rocks in your shoes and pay a guy to mug you multiple times on the course. ***

Anyway, thats all the rant I got for tonight.



***Unless you want primary care in community IM or FM. Then you just skirt by and make sure you pass. DO is just fine at getting that.

The first paragraph I’ll just have to see. I’m sure the floor of performance is higher which is the case across the board when comparing the two degrees.

The rest I can already see that writing on the wall. I’ve literally gotten zero practical advice about how to be competitive for my field. I’ve even asked for contact info so I can reach out to people from my school who’ve matched my desired field and they don’t even know how to get me that. Although I’m sure they have no problem tracking alumni down to shamelessly beg them for donations.🙄

I’ve asked for help getting anything remotely considered research going just for the experience because I have none and I’ve been told that I’m just gonna have to “go for it.” Like wtf does that mean!? Honestly, I have no idea what I’d do without this site because anything that goes into making an app competitive you’ll do completely on your own at my school.

But I’ve heard similar complaints from MD students about clueless administrators being stupid about scheduling and ****ty board prep time. But yeah I’ve yet to meet an MD with less vacation time than me. Also, I’ve heard them complain about preceptor based rotations where they aren’t even allowed to speak or participate. They’ve definitely got it better than us, but it ain’t all sunshine and roses anywhere.

This post summarizes how I feel as well. No real/legit home programs and dean's who don't give a flying **** about you are the real issues with DO school. MD students get dedicated, vacation time, clinical research opportunities thrown at them, advising/mentorship, and admin that might suck (because admin) but aren't like "you can only miss 2 days a rotation during interviews." It's just ****ing embarassing.

Yeah advising and mentoring has been awful. Even in primary care fields. The mentors are just so out of date. Hearing statements like third year grades don’t matter at all so it’s okay if you fail your shelf exams are just stupidly out of touch. It’s crazy. They just have no clue. I heard today that it’s hard to get into anesthesia without a 700+ comlex and don’t even bother with MD programs. Literally all of that is wrong and I’m paying for this! I just want to scream “it’s your job to know more about this stuff than me!”

 

[EMDoc22]

Current DO student and I believe we get 12 weeks of flex time to use throughout 3rd and 4th year, with 3 of those weeks having to be used for Christmas third year and 2 weeks before graduation so really 7 weeks of flex time. However, doing away rotations will count as part of that flex time if it’s not a “school associated” site or something like that where I can get elective credit. I go to a state school and we’re also only allowed to do 8 weeks of rotations OOS during 4th year.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

We get zero flex time and have an OMM rotation If we want to take time off to study for Step 2 we have to burn one of our electives....of which we only get 7 and that includes auditions.

 

[NVO]

Cant take more than 2 weeks off in a row so you can't save up a month or two to use during prime interview season 😀😀😀