miikesnow

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I know lots of people are always curious about how DO schools do on USMLE, so I figured I could pass along this information to everyone on SDN. My friend told me that the following was the performance for their class (2018).

COMLEX pass rate: 95.2%
Avg COMLEX score: 541

USMLE pass rate for: 96%
Avg USMLE score: 227

About ~80% of their class took the USMLE, so it is a pretty good representation of their class.

Any who, figured this was a interesting bit of info if anyone cares.
 

healingwave

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Can anyone tell me why DO students take both the COMLEX and USMLE?
 

AlteredScale

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Can anyone tell me why DO students take both the COMLEX and USMLE?
COMLEX is required for students to graduate a DO school. It is mot required to take usmle but highly suggested to have ao,ething to compare to with MD grads amongst residency program directors.


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Spikebd

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I know lots of people are always curious about how DO schools do on USMLE, so I figured I could pass along this information to everyone on SDN. My friend told me that the following was the performance for their class (2018).

COMLEX pass rate: 95.2%
Avg COMLEX score: 541

USMLE pass rate for: 96%
Avg USMLE score: 227

About ~80% of their class took the USMLE, so it is a pretty good representation of their class.

Any who, figured this was a interesting bit of info if anyone cares.
Hey miikesnow, thanks for the post. Always interesting to see how other DO schools fare. From an outsiders perspective it seems TCOM runs a nice program, perhaps the best DO school out there right now.
 
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I swear that the Texas schools have their **** together. I wish I was a resident and had went to undergrad there.

Hopefully for residency!
 
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Kgizzle

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Question... is it easier to match into harder residency programs regionally because of how good of a school TCOM is considered? I love this school and it's direction and think it's regarded highly by a lot of people. Does that high regard reduce the "bias" that some PD might have in regards to our degrees?
 

jw3600

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I know lots of people are always curious about how DO schools do on USMLE, so I figured I could pass along this information to everyone on SDN. My friend told me that the following was the performance for their class (2018).

COMLEX pass rate: 95.2%
Avg COMLEX score: 541

USMLE pass rate for: 96%
Avg USMLE score: 227

About ~80% of their class took the USMLE, so it is a pretty good representation of their class.

Any who, figured this was a interesting bit of info if anyone cares.
Solid USMLE average. Especially if that 80% number is true (I'm skeptical). I would love to see these numbers from a more official source.
 

LChristmas

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Solid USMLE average. Especially if that 80% number is true (I'm skeptical). I would love to see these numbers from a more official source.
The numbers were presented at a monthly MSGA & Deans meeting. The transcript of that meeting was sent to all TCOM students. Seemed legit to me.
 

Azete

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I really hate the secrecy at our school in this regard. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy where I'm at, but they're all about COMLEX here and will gladly boast those numbers to anyone that asks. If you inquire about USMLE scores and pass rates, though, they will guard this information with their life -- even the vast majority of our faculty have no idea what our USMLE stats are.

Based on our COMLEX scores vs the national average, I really can't imagine our USMLE numbers to be so heinously poor that they would need to be kept secret, so it's hard to understand the logic. Especially when over 70% of our students match ACGME residencies.
 
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hallowmann

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I really hate the secrecy at our school in this regard. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy where I'm at, but they're all about COMLEX here and will gladly boast those numbers to anyone that asks. If you inquire about USMLE scores and pass rates, though, they will guard this information with their life -- even the vast majority of our faculty have no idea what our USMLE stats are.

Based on our COMLEX scores vs the national average, I really can't imagine our USMLE numbers to be so heinously poor that they would need to be kept secret, so it's hard to understand the logic. Especially when over 70% of our students match ACGME residencies.
My school isn't very secretive about the stats, and to be honest, they are all similar to TCOM's listed above, with the exception of the percentage of people who end up taking the USMLE (its closer to 40-50%). I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but they were presented to us at some point last year.

However, my school was very very quick to tell people not to take the USMLE. Like they actively discourage people from taking it. They also tell people that if they aren't going to get >220, they shouldn't take it. I don't know if its because they give us barely any dedicated study (1-1.5 wks) and they want to make sure people focus on the COMLEX, they want us to fill their AOA residencies (they have other policies that seem to push this agenda), they don't like the NBME (but we get all of shelfs from them), but for whatever reason, that's how they were a couple years back.

I mean the area is pretty DO friendly and there are a ton of AOA and dual-accredited residencies here, so that makes some sense. I've also heard that they may be changing this attitude given the merger (even heard the president talk about how students will "have to" take the USMLE now in order to compete).
 
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jw3600

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The numbers were presented at a monthly MSGA & Deans meeting. The transcript of that meeting was sent to all TCOM students. Seemed legit to me.
Wanna post the transcript ?

Edit: or at least just the relevant section
 

Azete

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My school isn't very secretive about the stats, and to be honest, they are all similar to TCOM's listed above, with the exception of the percentage of people who end up taking the USMLE (its closer to 40-50%). I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but they were presented to us at some point last year.

However, my school was very very quick to tell people not to take the USMLE. Like they actively discourage people from taking it. They also tell people that if they aren't going to get >220, they shouldn't take it. I don't know if its because they give us barely any dedicated study (1-1.5 wks) and they want to make sure people focus on the COMLEX, they want us to fill their AOA residencies (they have other policies that seem to push this agenda), they don't like the NBME (but we get all of shelfs from them), but for whatever reason, that's how they were a couple years back.

I mean the area is pretty DO friendly and there are a ton of AOA and dual-accredited residencies here, so that makes some sense. I've also heard that they may be changing this attitude given the merger (even heard the president talk about how students will "have to" take the USMLE now in order to compete).
What the hell? Including our organized review period, we get 15 weeks. How are you supposed to adequately prepare in less than 2 weeks?
 

LChristmas

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Wanna post the transcript ?

Edit: or at least just the relevant section
The part about ~80% of the class taking Step 1 is what we hear from our course directors, and I assume it's an average over the last few years. It isn't mentioned in the transcript I have, but this is the relevant part that was sent to all students. I also found another little nugget as I was reading through it...
Names redacted.
Boards.jpeg
TCOM:TCU.png
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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That last sentence is interesting. is TCOM & the future TCUSOM moving?
 

hallowmann

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What the hell? Including our organized review period, we get 15 weeks. How are you supposed to adequately prepare in less than 2 weeks?
To be fair, the 3 wks leading up to dedicated study is a lighter schedule than the rest of second year and ends with a 1 wk "review". Its still a pain. They make us do practice tests periodically through spring semester of second year, and basically tell us we should be studying the whole time. The week before dedicated study is filled with pre-clinical shelfs, a COMSAE, a 4 hr in-house "practice test", and some random courses like ACLS.

Yeah, some people opt to lose their 3rd year vacation to add 4 wks (requires a reorganization of their 3rd year schedule for some people), but its a messed up deal because outside of that vacation we officially get a total of like 4-5 days off in 3rd year (Thanksgiving and the Friday after, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, and I think New Year's Eve?) . They force the bottom quartile to take the extra time also.

Schedule sucks. Their goal is for us to pass and do OK on boards. Its pretty clear the admin aren't looking for us to do our very best, just adequate. In 4th year we get a 4 wk block that we can use for Level/Step 2 studying or a 4 wk rotation. They don't let us split it up at all, so we either take Level 2 during the last week of that block and use the block as a study period, or we use the whole block as an elective. We can't study and then do like a 2 wk elective (on a separate note we can't do a 2 wk rotation anywhere officially unless we use our vacation for it, its 4 wks or nothing).

Again, lots of rules. My school is fine and good on other stuff, but they have a lot of annoying and at times overbearing rules because they think that's the only way to do things.
 

LChristmas

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That last sentence is interesting. is TCOM & the future TCUSOM moving?
My guess is that the plan is to have MD and DO students taking classes alongside each other to save some money. I don't know how the logistics of that will work out though since TCOM is a public school and TCU is a private school. I'm not sure why they would pick the medical district (15 mins from TCOM campus) when UNTHSC opened a brand new building 5 years ago mostly for TCOM.

TCUSOM also, "guarantees up to one-third of the incoming spots to TCU graduates." (Source)
 
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Azete

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To be fair, the 3 wks leading up to dedicated study is a lighter schedule than the rest of second year and ends with a 1 wk "review". Its still a pain. They make us do practice tests periodically through spring semester of second year, and basically tell us we should be studying the whole time. The week before dedicated study is filled with pre-clinical shelfs, a COMSAE, a 4 hr in-house "practice test", and some random courses like ACLS.

Yeah, some people opt to lose their 3rd year vacation to add 4 wks (requires a reorganization of their 3rd year schedule for some people), but its a messed up deal because outside of that vacation we officially get a total of like 4-5 days off in 3rd year (Thanksgiving and the Friday after, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, and I think New Year's Eve?) . They force the bottom quartile to take the extra time also.

Schedule sucks. Their goal is for us to pass and do OK on boards. Its pretty clear the admin aren't looking for us to do our very best, just adequate. In 4th year we get a 4 wk block that we can use for Level/Step 2 studying or a 4 wk rotation. They don't let us split it up at all, so we either take Level 2 during the last week of that block and use the block as a study period, or we use the whole block as an elective. We can't study and then do like a 2 wk elective (on a separate note we can't do a 2 wk rotation anywhere officially unless we use our vacation for it, its 4 wks or nothing).

Again, lots of rules. My school is fine and good on other stuff, but they have a lot of annoying and at times overbearing rules because they think that's the only way to do things.
I'm sure your school has a lot of good qualities, but I don't think anything less than 6 weeks of dedicated Step 1 study is even viable. Sure, you're supposed to be studying throughout the year -- but do they honestly expect you to be able to compete on boards with students that are studying all year and getting > 12 weeks of dedicated study?

It's a lot like the mandatory attendance policy at my school. We are significantly disadvantaged compared to school's without attendance policies because we get less time every day for studying. These sort of rules don't make any sense, at this level of education a school should be doing everything they can to provide opportunities for a successful career, and by forcing everyone to adhere to a style that they think is "best," it just ends up handicapping a large majority of their students with aspirations beyond primary care.
 
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AlteredScale

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My guess is that the plan is to have a MSU-type setup with MD and DO students taking classes alongside each other. I don't know how the logistics of that will work out though since TCOM is a public school and TCU is a private school. I'm not sure why they would pick the medical district (15 mins from TCOM campus) when UNTHSC opened a brand new building 5 years ago mostly for TCOM.

TCUSOM also, "guarantees up to one-third of the incoming spots to TCU graduates." (Source)
I think MSUCHM and MSUCOM are two entirely diffrent entitites no? Last I spoke with the assocaite dean of MSUCHM when he visited ucsd he said they have no contact with the do program.


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LChristmas

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I think MSUCHM and MSUCOM are two entirely different entities no? Last I spoke with the associate dean of MSUCHM when he visited ucsd he said they have no contact with the do program.


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I thought I read on SDN awhile ago that a DO student said the curriculum was essentially copied and pasted between the two programs and that they took classes together. I could be mistaken. I think I trust your source more than mine...

I can see how the OMM profs might not like that set up since it would be difficult to integrate the "osteopathic" approach into systems courses with MD students in the same room.
 
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kawi609

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I'm pretty sure TCU is gonna offer a MD so it wouldn't be a COM js... but TCOM is forsure a top tier DO.
 
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If it ain't Harvahhhd or Stanford, please don't mention "tiers".

All this talk of "tiers" is to make people feel better about themselves getting into a certain DO program over another lol reeks of insecurity issues. Time to get over it you guys.

A DO school is a DO school.

That like dressing up a piece of poo in a tuxedo and giving it a gentleman's haircut, it may look nice and do many things that amaze one's senses, but it's still a piece of poo.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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I thought I read on SDN awhile ago that a DO student said the curriculum was essentially copied and pasted between the two programs and that they took classes together. I could be mistaken. I think I trust your source more than mine...

I can see how the OMM profs might not like that set up since it would be difficult to integrate the "osteopathic" approach into systems courses with MD students in the same room.
No, the biggest issue is that the MD class finishes their stuff a lot earlier and quicker due to the lack of "osteopathic" approach. It'd be really hard to have everyone in one class room as a result.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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If it ain't Harvahhhd or Stanford, please don't mention "tiers".

All this talk of "tiers" is to make people feel better about themselves getting into a certain DO program over another lol reeks of insecurity issues. Time to get over it you guys.

A DO school is a DO school.

That like dressing up a piece of poo in a tuxedo and giving it a gentleman's haircut, it may look nice and do many things that amaze one's senses, but it's still a piece of poo.
Yes, but no. There's no denying that some DO school's overall performance and alumni base help them place their students into better residencies than others.
 
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Yes, but no. There's no denying that some DO school's overall performance and alumni base help them place their students into better residencies than others.
Definitely, but that is simply because of location. Not because of the school is "top tier". Look at the Cali DO programs. Wouldn't consider Touro-CA top tier by any means... but it attracts higher caliber students who couldn't get into the Cali MD programs for the most part.


Also, Texas is a whole different beast. That is one school is that is a LEGIT med school (do or MD aside). Texas as a state is just different and is better in all regards to this ****hole of a country.

I see what you're saying though.
 

navigator

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If it ain't Harvahhhd or Stanford, please don't mention "tiers".

A DO school is a DO school.

That like dressing up a piece of poo in a tuxedo and giving it a gentleman's haircut, it may look nice and do many things that amaze one's senses, but it's still a piece of poo.
When people talk about tiers they refer to the fact that certain schools have the institutional and financial capabilities, particularly with respect to faculty, research, mentorship/leadership opportunities, and hospital affiliations, to place students into quality residencies.

As a state medical school, TCOM is likely one of the best places to train to get an osteopathic degree. Whether you respect the value of this degree or not, you can't really determine that the school itself is a "piece of poo."
 
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When people talk about tiers they refer to the fact that certain schools have the institutional and financial capabilities, particularly with respect to faculty, research, mentorship/leadership opportunities, and hospital affiliations, to place students into quality residencies.

As a state medical school, TCOM is likely one of the best places to train to get an osteopathic degree. Whether you respect the value of this degree or not, you can't really determine that the school itself is a "piece of poo."
I agree. TCOM is a GREAT medical school. I secretly believe it's a MD program with a DO title honestly... why? Idk.. probably easier to get open lol


But I guess fam.


When any layperson thinks of tiers... they think of the ivies. This top tier crap is only on SDN (with all of our lovely brand whores and folks who like to big themselves up by mentioning "tiers" which is cool I guess... people gotta do whatever to make themselves feel better. I git it)

I respect the degree....don't get me wrong.

But **** OPP.

IF there is ANYTHING holding us DOs "back" and the reason why we don't get as much as our MD family in terms of clinical education, is because of all this "touching", "muscle energy", "counterstrain", "pedal pumping" hippie bull**** and the fact we have to devote our energy, money, and time into taking the dreaded useless COMLEX exam.

Here's an idea....?

Put that money schools invest in professors and facilities that have to do with OPP into hospital contracts and work on getting us better rotations.

Oh, and stop all of these goddamn new DO programs from popping up out of nowhere. We DO NOT NEED MORE SCHOOLS. WE need MORE HOSPITALS WITH RESIDENCIES and ROTATIONS.

If I ruffle any feathers, excuse me. That is not my intention. I am just venting lolz