Tech jobs and the "working interview"

[redhorse]

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Is it just NJ or is the norm for veterinarian's to assume they do not need to pay you for your time during a working interview/observation period?

Just checking in...this offends me to the core. Asking someone to spend 4-6 hours of their time working for a for-profit company with no compensation is wrong. Furthermore, it is illegal; it is against both federal and state labor law (I have confirmed this with the DOL).

Just wondering if this is the norm in other states and if anyone else even realizes that it is against the law.

 

[cowgirla]

Is it just NJ or is the norm for veterinarian's to assume they do not need to pay you for your time during a working interview/observation period?

Just checking in...this offends me to the core. Asking someone to spend 4-6 hours of their time working for a for-profit company with no compensation is wrong. Furthermore, it is illegal; it is against both federal and state labor law (I have doconfirmed this with the DOL).

Just wondering if this is the norm in other states and if anyone else even realizes that it is against the law.

If I'm actually working, yes I expect to get paid, and have never had a problem there. Infact, most places insist on it.

However, I interviewed at a few hospitals where they wanted to me to just watch for a few hours. Due to liability and insurance, at that point, unless you are a paid employee, you can't touch an animal. So no, I didn't expect to get paid for just doing nothing. If only it was that easy. A lot of times the head tech or who ever is interviewing will bounce questions off of you during that time.

I can't imagine expecting to get paid for every job interview I went on. I'd be rich. Its one of those things where if you want the job, you'll give up a few hours of your time. After all, why should they hire you if you cant answer a few questions while observing a procedure, especially if you are marketing yourself as experienced? It's an interview, and it goes both ways. If you don't like them, you don't take the job. They have a little more at stake-- the reputation of their hospital, the well being of their animals, etc. It makes sense that they dont want to make a snap decision on someone. Anyone can lie their way through an interview, so obviously, they want to see that they know what you are talking about.

I've even had a few places where I'm just watching, it gets crazy, I go to grab a towel or something basic and have somebody yell "dont touch that unless you clock in first!"



ETA: and if you confront them with the "law" just about their interview policies, you can pretty much assume you arent going to get that job. Nobody wants a whistle blower.

ETA, again: And this is from New york, Mass, New Hampshire, and Maine, not just one little area.

 

[TexasTiger]

I agree with cowgirla, mostly. At our hospital, a lot of times, if the head Dr. conducting the interview likes you, he'll invite you back to "tour" the facilities and just observe, but generally, you're gone by noon-ish, so only a few hours. This happened to me and I was in interview attire, so was definitely not participating, just observing. Don't know much about the legal ramifications...although I did do a "working interview" for two hours at a different job where I was actually working- talking/checking in clients, entering information in computers, etc. But again, for only 2 hours, and I didn't begrudge it, I needed the job!

We did have one girl who was actually hired, but realized halfway through the day that this job wasn't what she thought it was going to be (she thought she would have more of a "managerial" position...don't know why you wouldn't have specified that in an interview 🙄) so she quit...on her first day...and told our practice manager to just say it was a "working interview" and she wasn't expecting to be paid...that was kinda odd

 

[libster06]

No one gets paid for an observation period.... and I don't know anyone who expects to get paid for observing. Yes, you're taking time out of your life, but I would think that you're not taking time away from another opportunity in which you could be making money elsewhere (ie: another job), and 4-6 hours is not a whole big chunk of time.

You observe, see if you like the job and they see if they like you, and then you are hopefully hired. If its a "working interview" or an observation period, its against the law for you to do anything anyways, just as it would be against the law for a client to waltz in and start helping the techs out.

 

[libster06]

Although I am not from the North, I know vets and managers at all places I have worked down here have said that. Maybe not for an actual working inter. but definitely an observation thing.

 

[BlacKAT33]

hmm maybe i just have a completely diff way of thinking since i spent hundreds of hours interning which is basically working without pay.

maybe i should just bring up one point--you're complaining while some people around the country cant even find one clinic near them who will allow them to shadow or work. yea, you had to spend 6 hrs without getting paid, but if you get the job you'll get experience and pay while some other people who want this REALLY bad will never be able to have it

 

[Nephromaniac]

Yeah, I can't imagine getting paid for the interview / observation period. The only exception I would say is if the "observation" is part of your training, aka, you've already been hired, but not before. Like, at my clinic, the first day or two you generally did absolutely nothing except follow people around & listen to them explain, which I would expect to be paid for... but I agree w/ the above comments... the interview is part of the application process... I'd equate expecting to be paid for that to expecting to be paid for time spent filling out your application & resume or shopping for a new interview outfit.

 

[redhorse]

For the record, I am not interested in a debate of wrong or right. The DOL has set the standard for that. I'm just checking to see what the "industry standard" is in most areas.

 

[UM2014]

For the record, I am not interested in a debate of wrong or right. The DOP has set the standard for that. I'm just checking to see what the "industry standard" is in most areas.

IME the industry standard is to not pay for any kind of observational period. It's also quite common in my area to hire on all new employees as 'temps' for a 30 day trial period. At the end of the 30 days the benefits, paid time off, etc will kick in if both parties wish to move forward (assuming we're talking about a full time position).

 

[cowgirla]

For the record, I am not interested in a debate of wrong or right. The DOL has set the standard for that. I'm just checking to see what the "industry standard" is in most areas.

most jobs the DOL deals with are as simple as "if you can work a cash register, you're hired." It would be stupid for a job like that to have a "working interview" where your skills are evaluated.

It's not that simple in veterinary medicine. It's a skilled profession. Lives are at stake, even if you are "just" the technician. I would think the employer would be at fault if they DIDNT do a thorough interview of their new employees.

If you don't like it, maybe veterinary medicine isn't the right field for you.

 

[Whyevernot55]

Ditto most of what has already been said. If your interview goes well, you are asked back for a "working interview" where you effectively shadow and observe for the day, and everyone has an opportunity to see if they'll get along and the prospective employee has a chance to ask questions and make sure they know what they're getting in to.

No one gets paid for this. Ever. ANYWHERE I've heard of. You're not officially an employee, it's basically a second interview.

Again, as someone else said, the first 30 days are a trial period and training - you're getting paid, but no benefits or PTO yet.

 

[zeebra44]

Is it just NJ or is the norm for veterinarian's to assume they do not need to pay you for your time during a working interview/observation period?

Just checking in...this offends me to the core. Asking someone to spend 4-6 hours of their time working for a for-profit company with no compensation is wrong. Furthermore, it is illegal; it is against both federal and state labor law (I have confirmed this with the DOL).

Just wondering if this is the norm in other states and if anyone else even realizes that it is against the law.

I can understand your frustration with this. Back in November, I applied for a veterinary assistant position at a referral hospital. I went in for a first interview, and the practice manager called me back and asked when I could come in for an observation day. He told me that I was required to wear navy blue scrubs, the hospital "uniform". SO, I had to scramble to buy a pair of scrubs. He also asked me to bring my lunch, as I was going to be there a full day...8:30-6:00. I didn't just observe. I was basically practice bitch for the day, restocking all of the surgery room supplies and restraining animals when extra help was needed. It was tiring, but I thought it went really well. Then, three days later, I still hadn't heard from them. I had to actually actively call three or four more times for the practice manger to tell me that, yes I would have had the job, BUT there was a strong possibility of me heading back to school in August, and they needed someone more long term. I was devastated, to say the least. Because at that point, I had only heard back from one school, how was I supposed to know I'd be accepted? I clearly let him know my plans for school in the first interview, so it's not like it was a surprise. I felt like they knew they weren't going to hire me, and had just used me for free labor. Anyways, that was my first experience with an "observation" day, and let me tell you, it was not just "observation". It worked out for the best though. I AM attending school, and Wal-Mart lets you return scrubs without the tags. 😛

 

[Nephromaniac]

I was basically practice bitch for the day, restocking all of the surgery room supplies and restraining animals when extra help was needed..... I AM attending school, and Wal-Mart lets you return scrubs without the tags. 😛

First off... soooo illegal, & stupid on their part. If you had gotten injured, they could have been in deep legal doo-doo, so to speak. I guess maybe if they had a waiver for you to sign it may help, but that's still a grey area from my understanding.

2nd off... Grats on getting into school & being able to return the scrubs!

 

[cowgirla]

2nd off... Grats on getting into school & being able to return the scrubs!

I'll laugh if your school requires you to have blue scrubs for labs 😛

 

[alliecat44]

I have never, ever heard of a practice not paying for a working interview.

I would be extremely suspicious/absolutely refuse to work in a practice that did not and would be extremely tempted to report them to the labor board.

This is definitely not industry standard, in my experience.

 

[heylodeb]

I have a sort of working interview on Wednesday (not sure if it's for volunteer or paid, lol...) Anyway - the Dr. mentioned that I might end up helping with something while he's talking to me. Honestly, I don't care if it is legal or not, as long as I feel like the rest of the practice is run safely - I need a JOB!

So anyway - I have seen this 2-3x so I'm not surprised that they are asking you to do it. I guess if you want the job, you'll just have to deal with losing the time. 🙄

 

[Nephromaniac]

I have never, ever heard of a practice not paying for a working interview.

Out of curiosity, what type of working interviews... any kind? I'm wondering if some of the difference might be related to whether the "working interview" is something like 2-4 hrs of observation & chatting / questions vs. whether it was actually more like a trial work day.

I mean personally, I wouldn't expect to be paid for observing for a few hours while talking to people about the practice, job duties, etc. But if it were more structured, like an actual shift where I was expected to perform the tasks of the job, then I would be more inclined to say it should be compensated.

I haven't really seen / heard of the latter being that common, though I'm sure it varies by area & industry (& obviously is the case in some situations as some of the above examples show)

 

[Nephromaniac]

Honestly, I don't care if it is legal or not, as long as I feel like the rest of the practice is run safely - I need a JOB!

I definitely wouldn't say not too... hands on is definitely more fun than just standing there, & I'll be the first to admit I have no clue how many hours of work I've done & animals I've restrained off the clock at my old clinic, but I wasn't going to not help. I mean heck, I restrained one of our crazy doxie nail trim regulars when I stopped in after my vet school interview (in my interview suit non-the-less) b/c he & I had a little understanding & he AGed, defecated, & urinated less when I held him (I even stayed excrement free). I was just saying it's a bad business move on their part, b/c some people will take advantage of any situation to make a buck.

Anyway, I should probably stop procrastinating studying for finals... but GL!

 

[breenie]

At our clinic, we always pay for working interviews. And they're not just observing, but clearly we're not having techs restrain aggressive dogs or something like that. They interact with clients and staff, might try and get an idea of lab/clinic skills, etc. We do the same thing for receptionists. They answer phones, check in clients, etc.

Observing is one thing, but I think an actual working interview should be paid. I don't think it's fair to jump all over redhorse just because they may have had different experiences with what a "working" interview consists of.

 

[GreennWhite]

My working interview was more like a training session - It seemed like they were already ready to hire me and just wanted to make sure I got along with people and wasn't a complete clod. The office manager left early but called me the next day saying I was hired. I got paid for it, but it was on my first paycheck - I'm not sure if I would have gotten paid if I hadn't been hired - though again, it seemed like they were already planning on hiring me.

 

[alliecat44]

Out of curiosity, what type of working interviews... any kind? I'm wondering if some of the difference might be related to whether the "working interview" is something like 2-4 hrs of observation & chatting / questions vs. whether it was actually more like a trial work day.

Having a sit-down verbal interview and taking a tour of the hospital/observing for a little while is not what I would call a working interview. However, if you make it past that stage/initial interview and are invited for a "working interview," during which you are expected to perform duties that regular staff members perform, you should absolutely get paid.

To put it more succinctly: if I'm dressed in business casual interviewing for a tech position, I do not expect to get paid for the time I spend at the practice. However, if I am asked to show up in scrubs and spend time on the floor performing job-related tasks, then I expect to be paid for my time--and so does the DOL. 😉

 

[Nephromaniac]

Thanks for clearing that up Alliecat... I agree... that should definitely be paid imo. I guess "working interview" is yet another term used to loosely now-a-days, lol.

 

[DPG1700]

I also do not agree on the non-paid working interview, but I also know it seems to be a bit of a requirement here in the veterinary field. I had never experienced it until earlier this year, after I received my bachelors, and had at least 1200 hours veterinary assistant experience. I was shocked when a doctor had told me it seemed I had little experience, and would I come in for 2 weeks (!) full-time working probationary period with no pay! I agreed, but only because I was having trouble finding a job at the time. In the end, it actually worked out, because I was able to use the time at vet school interviews and at other job interviews afterwards. I also feel I learned a lot, as after a few days and really learning of my intentions to go to veterinary school, the vet took me under his wing to teach me stuff. My parents were pissed at the gall of the doctor, but since I had done so many non-paid animal-related internships, I didnt feel like it was that different. In the end, I left for a better paying job, so I never moved on from the working interview. This doc definitely got free labor out of me.

Additionally, I was asked to be on another "working interview" two weeks ago, apparently to test my skills as an assistant/tech. I was told it was to be 5 hrs one day, and I was ok with that. What pissed me off about it was that after the first day was done, the vet remarked "see you thursday". I was so confused as to whether I had been hired or not, but apparently there was a second day of the interview, like I should have known all along. She had so sneakily snuck that in there, we had definitely not discussed this additional day. What was doubly annoying was that the second day was soooo empty, there was nothing to do! In the end, I wasn't hired cause I didn't have the "skills" she was looking for (which was suprising to me, since I had at least 2000 hrs of experience, and had been accepted into vet school, so apparently I knew some stuff). Then she made it like she was giving me such a gift that I was able to keep the scrub top she had given me for working (prob cost $2, didn't fit, and like I'm gonna really wear it again).

Sorry for my rant, but I've had a lot of not so great experiences with the working interview. I understand where the vets are coming from- yea a lot of ppl lie during their interview and dont have the necessary skills needed. But I dont think its fair to ask for free labor, especially when you can figure out someone's work ethic and skills after the person has been hired, and later fire them if you need to, and because it often takes more than a few hrs of work (where the person is unaware of how exactly the clinic works, where everything is stocked- cause every clinic and doctor is different!) to be able to access their potential as a worker!

 

[VeganSoprano]

I've been on a couple of working interviews. I had to sign waivers for both. For one, I got paid (but less than the actual pay for the position), and for the other I didn't. I think it's reasonable to compensate for a working interview since you are actually working, but minimum wage is probably perfectly fair.

 

[Tco87]

To answer the OP's question: My only working interview experience is with a shelter. I was only expected to come in for an hour and I didn't get paid.

Now, to answer the debate this thread started 😉:I don't care that I didn't get paid since it was only an hour. I also wouldn't expect to get paid if all I did was observe and didn't do anything hands on. However, if I went through what DPG and zeebra did I would be PISSED!
I understand why doctors would want to do working interviews to make sure that someone didn't just look good on paper, but they shouldn't need more than a couple hours. And if they really want a longer working interview than they should pay.

 

[Jamr0ckin]

As the person who does the hiring and interviewing, I see both sides of the argument. Because a sit-down interview will not tell me everything (can you handle a fractious cat or can you trim nails without making all of them bleed?) I schedule working interviews to help assess the applicants. I will pay for the time if they are useful. I recently did not pay a girl because she exaggerated her experience on paper and seemed more interested in watching a surgery than showing me her technical skills and desire for the job, so basically she watched and did not do any real work. The other 2 applicants which were successfully hired got paid for their interview because they drew blood, restrained animals, and were helpful.