Terrible mistake, will get an institutional action after acceptance

[Goro]

---

Members don't see this ad.

To quote the honor code at West Point and the USNA: "A cadet will not cheat nor tolerate those who do"

I believe so, I think students have a duty not only to refrain from cheating but also to report it when they see it. Perhaps do it anonymously with the student names removed, if you're not ready to see your friends lose their dream career, since that should at least prompt the prof yo write a new test and protect exam integrity.

The assumption will be that you have cheated on other things as well. Why would anyone cheat on an exam when they already have the golden ticket? There will be no conditional acceptance if there is an IA as there are 500 people on the waiting list that almost made the cut and don't have any red flags.
That's the reality. No U.S. school will overlook this cheating. None.
You need to get out without an IA or pack your bags for the Caribbean. They will probably overlook cheating if your check clears.

My learned colleague has already alluded to this above. What this tells me is that in an insignificant crisis, the OP resorts to unethical behavior.
I did look at it and use it to study, I admit it. I felt like my back was against the wall.

 

[bararaboi]

This may be a long shot, but go for the "settlement" route with your school and try to get an "invisible" institutional action. Show your extreme remorse, talk about how this has lasting implications on the rest of your life, do whatever you can to appeal to the ethos of those in charge and show them how you're going to turn this into a positive force. I would also speak with those in charge (don't know if it would be the dean or the professor) of that whole disciplinary process off the record and see what you can do.

Finally, I would not report this incident to the medical schools you've been accepted to until that whole disciplinary process is over and you've formally received any type of institutional action that you may receive.

 

[Lawpy]

The tragedy in all this is that OP was an idiot for actively engaging in the conversation rather than simply reporting his cheater friend to the professor/Deans.

 

[gyngyn]

This may be a long shot, but go for the "settlement" route with your school and try to get an "invisible" institutional action. Show your extreme remorse, talk about how this has lasting implications on the rest of your life, do whatever you can to appeal to the ethos of those in charge and show them how you're going to turn this into a positive force. I would also speak with those in charge (don't know if it would be the dean or the professor) of that whole disciplinary process off the record and see what you can do.

From the AMCAS instructions:
"You must answer Yes to this question if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. You must answer Yes even if the action does not appear on or has been deleted from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition."
Emphasis, mine.

 

[WingedOx]

I believe so, I think students have a duty not only to refrain from cheating but also to report it when they see it. Perhaps do it anonymously with the student names removed, if you're not ready to see your friends lose their dream career, since that should at least prompt the prof yo write a new test and protect exam integrity.

All academic honor codes are best summarized by the one at West Point:

(which of course Maynard James Keenan turned into one of Tool's first big songs)

 

[Goro]

OP did more than merely engage in conversation:

" I did look at it and use it to study, I admit it. I"

The tragedy in all this is that OP was an idiot for actively engaging in the conversation rather than simply reporting his cheater friend to the professor/Deans.

 

[Lawpy]

OP did more than merely engage in conversation:

" I did look at it and use it to study, I admit it. I"

How is the access to that information illegal when the professor will change the final exam?

 

[NontradICUdoc]

this calls into question your ethics. how can you be trusted with confidential medical information if you have shown that you were dishonest already. people come to the doctor and put the trust of their lives in you, you have already tarnished this trust by cheating. call it what you will, you cheated.

 

[Obscure]

Out of curiosity, how long will this type of conduct count against the OP?

Is there a time, perhaps ten years from now, where he'd be able to reapply. Would time to grow and mature be factored into the decision in ten years, or is he basically out of options?

How is the access to that information illegal when the professor will change the final exam?

That's really beside the point, isn't it?

 

[NontradICUdoc]

How is the access to that information illegal when the professor will change the final exam?

the professor was working on the exam and the picture of the exam is tantamount to breaking into the office and copying the exam and then distributing, (at a time before smart phones). there is no guarantee that the professor would change the exam. in the end, exam questions were stolen and distributed for the purpose of getting the upper hand on what material was on the test. and therefor by definition cheating.

 

[piii]

I'm asking for serious advice. No need to be snarky about it. I got an acceptance because I earned it, and made a mistake that I'm owning up to.

You post on a internet forum, you are subjected to public comments. People don't have to follow your "guidelines" for commenting just because you don't like it.

Just like how you actively cheat, you deserve the repercussions that follow. You deserve your revocation.

It sucks but you should have known better. You can't make these mistakes in medical school or with patient's confidentially and lives.

 

[Lawpy]

the professor was working on the exam and the picture of the exam is tantamount to breaking into the office and copying the exam and then distributing, (at a time before smart phones). there is no guarantee that the professor would change the exam. in the end, exam questions were stolen and distributed for the purpose of getting the upper hand on what material was on the test. and therefor by definition cheating.

Wait what? If the cheater friend sent OP the email containing the copy of the attachment of the final, and OP reported the cheater to the professor and the Dean about this academic honesty breach, the professor must change the final exam because it is not secured. The Dean will provide some time/guidance to help the professor fix up the exam. But the exam copy is still accessible to the recipients who are rewarded for reporting the cheater. It doesn't make the exam useless, but it's good practice.

How can the professor or the Dean (or any academic integrity board) ensure that the recipients will not use the broken/unsecured exam?

That's really beside the point, isn't it?

OP is done for so I can't help with that. He is an idiot. However, the issue lies that the professor is obligated to change his final exam after finding about the breach because there is no guarantee (and even no repercussions) that the recipients of that email who did report the cheater will not look at the exam. There is no way to authorize that.

 

[Citygirl44]

This may be a long shot, but go for the "settlement" route with your school and try to get an "invisible" institutional action. Show your extreme remorse, talk about how this has lasting implications on the rest of your life, do whatever you can to appeal to the ethos of those in charge and show them how you're going to turn this into a positive force. I would also speak with those in charge (don't know if it would be the dean or the professor) of that whole disciplinary process off the record and see what you can do.

Finally, I would not report this incident to the medical schools you've been accepted to until that whole disciplinary process is over and you've formally received any type of institutional action that you may receive.

+1

 

[NotYou20]

You're almost certainly done, and should be. Consolation prize is that you can have a happy life without being a doctor. Gl

 

[wagonwheel23]

Ok kids... Let me share an important lesson I learned after college. Never leave a paper trail, even on things that seem innocuous (E.g. when teaching undergrads I was told to only compliment students in person, not over email). So, if you're going to do something that is unethical, it's probably not a great idea to have an email chain outlining your dishonesty...

 

[deleted393595]

Hello SDN. Back in November, I was fortunate enough to get into one of my dream schools! Unfortunately, after that, I became very complacent with my grades and was at risk of getting a C or D in biochemistry if I didn't do really well on the final, which is worth 35% of the final grade. For the record, I was never planning to do anything wrong and was studying very hard for it. But my friend went to the professor's office hours and noticed that he was writing the final on his computer, which at that point was about 3/4 complete. He managed to take pictures of it when the professor left for some reason and sent them to me and other people. I did look at it and use it to study, I admit it. I felt like my back was against the wall. Somebody reported us and there's not really much I could do to defend myself because there was a whole email thread of discussion about the test questions that I was part of. I'm scheduled for a hearing after winter break, where I am told I will almost certainly get an institutional action. What should I do? If I tell the medical school I feel like I could get my admission rescinded. Is this something I legally have to report? I don't ever cheat. I feel so lost right now.

Edit: using new account for obvious reasons

This scenario makes for a good MMI question

 

[NontradICUdoc]

Wait what? If the cheater friend sent OP the email containing the copy of the attachment of the final, and OP reported the cheater to the professor and the Dean about this academic honesty breach, the professor must change the final exam because it is not secured. The Dean will provide some time/guidance to help the professor fix up the exam. But the exam copy is still accessible to the recipients who are rewarded for reporting the cheater. It doesn't make the exam useless, but it's good practice.

.

but that is the thing, the op never stated that they were the one that reported it to the dean. rather, they USED the exam to study and discuss the questions via email.

 

[darknecrosforte]

All academic honor codes are best summarized by the one at West Point:

(which of course Maynard James Keenan turned into one of Tool's first big songs)

It's great no one is using Marine Corps sayings... We joke that "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying." lol

 

[Lawpy]

but that is the thing, the op never stated that they were the one that reported it to the dean. rather, they USED the exam to study and discuss the questions via email.

I agree but even in the case of someone reporting the cheater (and forcing the professor to change the final because of the breach), is it really considered cheating for looking at the leaked final simply for practice? Even when the final will be changed?

 

[deleted393595]

It's great no one is using Marine Corps sayings... We joke that "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying." lol

You know what MARINE stands for right?

Muscles Are Required Intelligence Not Essential* 😉

*I may or may not be an Air Force fanboy

 

[NontradICUdoc]

yes. because professors will provide the students with old questions as a study guide. not new ones. at least most of the ones that i know. and again, the idea that his friend took the picture from the computer of the professor may even be tantamount of a criminal act since the questions are considered intellectual property (but a lawyer would have to chime in on this one to be sure)

 

[bananafish94]

You're almost certainly done, and should be. Consolation prize is that you can have a happy life without being a doctor. Gl

Savage

 

[El-Rami]

I have no idea. I think it's safe to assume that the vast majority of higher education out there is closed off to OP.

The OP definitely has a chance to pursue a career in ministry. There are people who have broken the law and go on to have this career. The rationale is "all have sinned but can be forgiven," and people who go into ministry often say they have a "calling from God." Religious educational institutions work differently from secular ones.

Of course, the OP probably doesn't want to consider doing ministry as a profession. However, the point is that the OP can live a decently comfortable life, support a happy family, and serve an important role in his or her community. Many churches also provide decent housing. This of course can increase spending power beyond what a check would suggest because no mortgage payments have to be paid each month.

 

[anon2014_2014]

lol u done.




WHY DO PEOPLE STILL DO STUPID **** LIKE THIS??? STOP BEING STUPID! Or not, and let those of us who DON'T do stupid **** get your acceptances.

 

[Lawpy]

yes. because professors will provide the students with old questions as a study guide. not new ones. at least most of the ones that i know. and again, the idea that his friend took the picture from the computer of the professor may even be tantamount of a criminal act since the questions are considered intellectual property (but a lawyer would have to chime in on this one to be sure)

This is interesting. So in that regard, is it also cheating if only a small group of students acquired older exams from another friend who previously took the course from the same professor?

 

[LizzyM]

From the AMCAS instructions:
"You must answer Yes to this question if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment or require you to withdraw. You must answer Yes even if the action does not appear on or has been deleted from your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition."
Emphasis, mine.

There are instances where the powers that be will "plea bargain" what would be an institutional action down to a slap on the wrist administered by the instructor thus avoiding an action by the institution. At my school, at least at the grad level, academic dishonesty addressed by the institution requires a registered letter to the student, the assembling of three faculty members two of whom must be high ranking faculty in the department, then there is the possibility of an appeal by the student to the Dean or the provost or something like that. So, to avoid all that jazz the school will say to the student, will you waive your right to an appeal and accept a grade of zero for the test/paper, etc. The instructor is asked if they will agree to that grade. Then it is done without an institutional action. Of course, explaining to med schools how you ended up with an F in a course will be a task.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Of course, explaining to med schools how you ended up with an F in a course will be a task.

Pfft that's easy. If being on here has taught me anything, it's that low grades can be explained away with "I was working through mental problems but I'm okay now."

Spoiler

/tongue in cheek

 

[DoReMiFaSo]

Am I the only one who feels bad for OP? what he did is totally wrong and stupid...

Well, my natural instinct is to say, "yeah, I feel bad for OP too," but I just can't shake off that thought of "well if he/she cheated on a test, I wonder what other dishonest acts would he/she be capable of...?" Theoretically, OP could live the rest of life and only have this incident be the ONLY act of dishonesty, but merely the "I wonder..." alone renders OP incompatible with medicine. And for this reason, this nagging doubt, I refuse to extend my sympathy.

With this said, I do sincerely wish OP best of luck down the road. May you find fulfillment outside of medicine.

 

[Citygirl44]

There are instances where the powers that be will "plea bargain" what would be an institutional action down to a slap on the wrist administered by the instructor thus avoiding an action by the institution. At my school, at least at the grad level, academic dishonesty addressed by the institution requires a registered letter to the student, the assembling of three faculty members two of whom must be high ranking faculty in the department, then there is the possibility of an appeal by the student to the Dean or the provost or something like that. So, to avoid all that jazz the school will say to the student, will you waive your right to an appeal and accept a grade of zero for the test/paper, etc. The instructor is asked if they will agree to that grade. Then it is done without an institutional action. Of course, explaining to med schools how you ended up with an F in a course will be a task.

This exact thing happened to someone I knew ( they told me this). They accepted an F ( not just for the exam but for the class itself) ,other than that it wasn't put in their permanent file " record". They weren't premed though

 

[LuluLovesMe]

While MD or DO may likely not be an option for the OP in the near future, I really doubt he'd be closed off to many other professions. There are so many law schools and grad schools that accept almost anyone who can take out a loan.

 

[bananafish94]

While MD or DO may likely not be an option for the OP in the near future, I really doubt he'd be closed off to many other professions. There are so many law schools and grad schools that accept almost anyone who can take out a loan.

Law schools do not work the same way as med schools. The object is not to get in anywhere...there are many law schools that are effectively diploma mills, or the equivalent of Caribbean med schools.

 

[piii]

Of course, explaining to med schools how you ended up with an F in a course will be a task.

From cheating to lying. OP can make no good moral decision if he/she is to successfully (unlikely) matriculate.

 

[LizzyM]

Pfft that's easy. If being on here has taught me anything, it's that low grades can be explained away with "I was working through mental problems but I'm okay now."

Spoiler

/tongue in cheek

As a med school administrator, the comeback to that "excuse" might be a recommendation to take a year off and come back with a letter from a mental health professional stating that whatever recent condition caused this academic disaster has resolved. No one would want you to start medical school with a health condition that is going to result in academic problems.

 

[DokterMom]

I have no knowledge of OP's religious views, but maybe (s)he could consider attending a seminary in order to become a minister of some sort. From what I've seen, ministry is a profession that is far more willing to forgive/believe in redemption for more serious offenses than others. Depending on OP's religious views and motivations for pursuing a career in medicine, they can still help people with their spiritual needs.

The ministry does seem rather tolerant of cheaters...

Am I the only one who feels bad for OP? what he did is totally wrong and stupid... but i still feel bad that he could lose his acceptance and no longer have a chance to be a doctor. That's really sad. OP I hope you get a second chance.
Good luck

That's very generous of you. But how would you feel withering on that waitlist when the OP got to keep his seat?

 

[cactusinmyhead]

I'm sorry OP! That sucks. We all make mistakes. I do hope you get a second chance.
People are being pretty harsh, so just wanted to send some positive energy your way. I'd be devastated if this happened to me.

 

[piii]

But how would you feel withering on that waitlist when the OP got to keep his seat?

And how would you feel having a classmate with this history?

 

[LizzyM]

From cheating to lying. OP can make no good moral decision if he/she is to successfully (unlikely) matriculate.

I concur

 

[Nietzschelover]

Not condoning or disagreeing with anything written so far, but in fairness, especially given the competitive nature of gaining admission to med school, do any of us believe that there are no students in med school and well-respected practicing physicians who never cheated in college or med school? No med students who as college students ever cheated while feeling the pressure that a failing grade in a key class would forever doom their chances? I would also guess that there is huge variability in the ability to cheat at various colleges, like small LACs with honor codes to massive state universities with hundreds of students in a class. I'm going to venture a guess that cheating is not a rare event.

 

[Chasing Never Land]

Thank you for the honest replies. Has anyone ever heard of something like this working out for somebody?

I was on the student jury at my school. Here, the school is legally not allowed to disclose your IA record to anybody but you or school staff, and the record is destroyed the minute you graduate. So if you went to my school, you would be totally fine.

Also, I'd just like to put in my two cents:

1) punishment should be educational
2) if we allow no room for mistakes, we are creating a very unhealthy lifestyle.

That said, OPs mistake was highly unethical, not sure I'd trust them as my own doc....

 

[hailbate]

I'm sorry OP! That sucks. We all make mistakes. I do hope you get a second chance.
People are being pretty harsh, so just wanted to send some positive energy your way. I'd be devastated if this happened to me.

Yeah maybe I'm a bit too easy to give sympathy but I can't help but feel bad for him :/ Like OP has literally been working years for this acceptance and it's all gone to waste cause of a simple "Well why not?" kind of attitude.

At the very least you know you won't make a mistake like this ever again. I really do hope you get a 2nd chance somewhere OP

 

[Fedekz]

I don't condone cheating, but I suggest getting a lawyer to advise you through the process. Make sure it's someone familiar with academic or educational law, not a DUI defense attorney.

 

[LizzyM]

I was on the student jury at my school. Here, the school is legally not allowed to disclose your IA record to anybody but you or school staff, and the record is destroyed the minute you graduate. So if you went to my school, you would be totally fine.

WRONG! AMCAS is very clear, the OP must report, even if the IA is no longer on the record. Furthermore, while federal law protects one's academic record from prying eyes, one must sign a release of one's undergrad record in order to be admitted to professional school.

 

[darknecrosforte]

As stated before, this was not a "why not" attitude. This was at the very least a choice that never ever should be made due to the consequences being clearly understood by virtually all university students AS WELL as basic foolishness due to the student not knowing that getting a C- or D would be much less detrimental to matriculating than an IA. The issue is OP's character and ability to make sound judgments. Did I personally enjoy slacking off a bit after getting accepted? Heck yeah. Getting two A's and two B+'s would normally stress me out, but that was a really fun weekend.

On another note, how awesome was that coke you snorted to tank your grades that hard? I go to a low level CA state school, but you must've been taking number theory, metaphysics, or a lot of drugs to do THAT bad after an acceptance.

 

[philosonista]

If you tell the medical school, you'll have your admission rescinded. If you don't tell the medical school, you'll have your admission rescinded.

Sorry, compadre.

I almost "liked" this post out of agreeance. But "liking" too often gives the impression that I relish in your misfortune. I don't. I mean to say that he's right.

You're best bet is to not tell schools and hope they do not inquire. It is possible they won't inquire. It is possible you won't have a record (some schools destroy after graduation). And for goodness sake, if you get a F and no IA, come up with a good excuse! A REALLY good one -- because it is going to prompt your school to check in all likelihood.

 

[MerYangBey]

The ministry does seem rather tolerant of cheaters...



That's very generous of you. But how would you feel withering on that waitlist when the OP got to keep his seat?

Fair enough. You do make a good point. I'm just a strong believer in second chances. One bad action doesn't make someone a bad person.

Also there is no guarantee that I will be a better doctor than OP just because I didn't make dumb decisions in my 20's. OP was worthy enough to get the acceptance. I hope he gets to keep it.

 

[Chasing Never Land]

WRONG! AMCAS is very clear, the OP must report, even if the IA is no longer on the record. Furthermore, while federal law protects one's academic record from prying eyes, one must sign a release of one's undergrad record in order to be admitted to professional school.

Huh..... That's interesting - I'm not sure my school was following the rules then. The dean of student conduct would often scoff about how students should just accept IAs BC nobody could find out anyways.

I'm gonna go do some more research on this now 😛

 

[IlDestriero]

I was on the student jury at my school. Here, the school is legally not allowed to disclose your IA record to anybody but you or school staff, and the record is destroyed the minute you graduate. So if you went to my school, you would be totally fine.

Also, I'd just like to put in my two cents:

1) punishment should be educational
2) if we allow no room for mistakes, we are creating a very unhealthy lifestyle.

That said, OPs mistake was highly unethical, not sure I'd trust them as my own doc....

We had the opposite system. The investigation and finding of merit for trial was private and protected, but the honor trial was public, unless you requested it be confidential (which most did) BUT a guilty verdict was made pubic, and the single sanction applied. They wanted to give people a chance to say goodbye. 😉
Every year or 2, some sorry bastard lost their degree for cheating on final exams, honors thesis, etc. and ended up with no degree and a lost job, grad school, etc. Nobody loses any sleep over that. Tolerance of cheating devalues your degree, and everyone knows the score coming in. In fact we had to sign some acknowledgement of the honor code and single sanction as part of the admission paperwork.

 

[LizzyM]

The ministry does seem rather tolerant of cheaters...

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", and all that... (for those not familiar with the sayings of Jesus, a woman caught in adultry has been condemned to death by stoning as was the custom. Jesus was asked what he thought of this. His response is legendary... and all those who would stone the woman walked away. Jesus then told her to go in peace and sin no more.)

We are all sinners and church is said to be a hospital for sinners. So, ministry might be more willing to take a repentant sinner than other professions. I seem to remember that at least one or two from the Nixon White House ended up in ministry.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Not condoning or disagreeing with anything written so far, but in fairness, especially given the competitive nature of gaining admission to med school, do any of us believe that there are no students in med school and well-respected practicing physicians who never cheated in college or med school? No med students who as college students ever cheated while feeling the pressure that a failing grade in a key class would forever doom their chances? I would also guess that there is huge variability in the ability to cheat at various colleges, like small LACs with honor codes to massive state universities with hundreds of students in a class. I'm going to venture a guess that cheating is not a rare event.

Well I for one have never cheated, and even made a few enemies (like I really gave a **** about those students) in "combating" cheating.

Spoiler: Story time

During physics 2 our professor was kind enough to give us an out-of-class extra credit opportunity at the end of the year and made it clear we were to work on it independently. Obviously many of the lazier students chose to group-work it out (aka you take #s 1-10, you do 11-20, I'll do 21-30, and we'll all swap answers), and did so on the facebook study page for the class. Being one of the moderators of that group, I deleted all posts regarding the sharing of answers on that extra credit assignment (but not discussion that would lead to reaching an answer as a collective). Then one student found the answer key to the assignment (our prof used some random problem set) and posted it in the group. That was taken down by the mods as well, and people raged again, accusing the group leaders of keeping the answers for ourselves. The sad part was, the assignment took literally less than an hour do to and wasn't difficult at all.

 

[DokterMom]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", and all that... (for those not familiar with the sayings of Jesus, a woman caught in adultry has been condemned to death by stoning as was the custom. Jesus was asked what he thought of this. His response is legendary... and all those who would stone the woman walked away. Jesus then told her to go in peace and sin no more.)

We are all sinners and church is said to be a hospital for sinners. So, ministry might be more willing to take a repentant sinner than other professions. I seem to remember that at least one or two from the Nixon White House ended up in ministry.

I was actually referring to cheating after admission to the ministry, so falling down on the 'sin no more' aspect, but hey...