That crazy salary question.

[ExperiencedDPM]

Discussions of salary are popular on this site. For quite a while I’ve commented on some quotes that I thought were unrealistically high as an average. Knowing many very successful DPMS and knowing many who weren’t doing too well, I thought some of the numbers being tossed around were a bit high. Especially the MGMA.

So here are some stats that I found. One of the sources was a grid in Podiatry Management from 2016:

Bureau of Labor & Statistics
Median-119,340
Mean—-136,180

PM News Survey
Solo—--119,250
Partnership—148,150

APMA
Median—-142,500
Mean——-161,519

US News & World Report
Median——124,830
Mean———144,000

(Some numbers may be off a few dollars due to typos).

MGMA
Median——-280,714

So let’s analyze the numbers. They are “relatively” consistent until you look at the MGMA. What’s the reason the MGMA median is about $150,000 more than the other surveys? Doesn’t that seem a little odd that there would be that large of a discrepancy?

Maybe I’m missing something and don’t understand how these surveys work. In my opinion, the MGMA numbers have always seemed high and this may support my feeling.

The ONLY reasonable explanation I can come up with is this:

NaTCH wasn’t included in the APMA, PM News and US News and World Report Surveys. He WAS included in the MGMA survey which made the average skyrocket. After all, NaTCH does have the competitive advantage. How many of YOU have delivered chocolate feet to referral sources while wearing a Santa Claus suit??!!

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[ExperiencedDPM]

MGMA has three different categories for podiatry. I do not know the specific designations but they go something like this...

1) Podiatry - General
2) Podiatry - Surgical
3) Podiatry - Foot and ankle surgery

Each category has a different median average. Each category has a different 25%, 50%, 75% percentiles salary ranges. Geographic location also changes some numbers around. You won't be able to find all this detailed information off the interwebs (trust me I've tried), if you do it is most likely outdated.

To get access you can either go to your human resources department at the hospital you do your residency training at or currently hold surgical privileges at and ask them to see a copy of their MGMA textbook or you can buy it online for $800. Maybe more.

All hospitals typically use MGMA data to determine salary for new physician recruits.

Thanks. I understand that, but the discrepancy still seems hard to explain. I’ve seen the MGMA numbers and they all seem significantly higher than the other surveys despite the category.

 

[NatCh]

LOL!!!

 

[jehjr]

MGMA recently changed their system. It seems like it is all online now and one subscription covers all specialties. Previously you could purchase a text specific to your specialty. It’s definitely worth a look, as you can break it up by annual RVUs, encounters, charges, collections, etc. Also, it is my understanding that MGMA numbers reflect salary+bonus.

That said: ExperiencedDPM, do you really believe the surveys you cited are reasonable for full time practice? Do any of them specify how many hours are worked or patients seen? Do you know where the BLS numbers even come from? Are they limited to salary only, or inclusive of total compensation? If you’re in private practice, how do you even define “total compensation”? As with any business, it’s not always so much about what you make as it is what you keep. This can contrast sharply with a hospital employee on a w2 only.

If I were in private practice, my financial benefits would not be limited to my salary.

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

LOL!!!

NatCh, couldn’t resist!!

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

MGMA recently changed their system. It seems like it is all online now and one subscription covers all specialties. Previously you could purchase a text specific to your specialty. It’s definitely worth a look, as you can break it up by annual RVUs, encounters, charges, collections, etc. Also, it is my understanding that MGMA numbers reflect salary+bonus.

That said: ExperiencedDPM, do you really believe the surveys you cited are reasonable for full time practice? Do any of them specify how many hours are worked or patients seen? Do you know where the BLS numbers even come from? Are they limited to salary only, or inclusive of total compensation? If you’re in private practice, how do you even define “total compensation”? As with any business, it’s not always so much about what you make as it is what you keep. This can contrast sharply with a hospital employee on a w2 only.

If I were in private practice, my financial benefits would not be limited to my salary.

Understood and points well taken. I have no idea where these surveys obtain their information and exactly what that final number includes.

Please remember there are a LOT of mom and pop small practices still in existence that can easily lower any average. There are still some elderly DPMs who provide the most basic of services and have small practices.

I have no idea which numbers are the most accurate. After many years in this profession, my gut feeling is that the true number lies somewhere between all those surveys and MGMA.

On a side note, it appears that something I’ve mentioned on this site many times in the past may be coming to fruition soon.

As I’ve stated and most of you already know, the days of the more you do the more you make are coming to an end. It’s going to be based on outcomes.

I know I’m repeating myself, so I apologize. The easiest example is a patient with heel pain who goes to Dr. Ivana Billalot. Dr. Billalot takes X-rays, does some crappy PT in the office, makes custom orthoses, dispenses a night splint, does an ultrasound guided injection, dispenses a compounded medication and dispenses an Airheel (all billed to insurance). Dr. Burt Nurny sees the same patient and takes an X-ray, gives a traditional injection without ultrasound and tells the patient to buy a pair of Powersteps and shows the patient some stretching exercises. His treatment is much less costly and likely just as effective. So in the new model, he “wins” and will be rewarded.

Medicare is starting to test the water with paying for “bundled” procedures and payments. So you get paid X amount of dollars for a diagnosis no matter what it takes the get the patient better. It’ll all be about efficiency, not quanity.

 

[dr.phoot]

Bureau of Labor & Statistics
Median-119,340
Mean—-136,180

PM News Survey
Solo—--119,250
Partnership—148,150

APMA
Median—-142,500
Mean——-161,519

US News & World Report
Median——124,830
Mean———144,000

(Some numbers may be off a few dollars due to typos).

MGMA
Median——-280,714

those #s are not encourgaing...

 

[GypsyHummus]

look, I’m all about not going into something for the money, but if I’m only going to be grossing 120-140k after 7 years and 300k+ in student loan debt as a DPM ( like 90-100k after taxes), I think a different profession is in order.

 

[DPMStudent159]

look, I’m all about not going into something for the money, but if I’m only going to be grossing 120-140k after 7 years and 300k+ in student loan debt as a DPM ( like 90-100k after taxes), I think a different profession is in order.

From what I have heard, everyone will start out at the that range or even lower, but eventually you can make much more money. This is with almost every career. At the end of the day, I really hope you aren't going to be doing podiatry for the money, because there are many other ways out there to make much more money than 100k after taxes per year.

The podiatrists that I have talked to around here have been generous to share numbers with me (North Jersey area) and everyone is falling around the ballpark area of $150-180k when starting with a hospital or less when starting with a private practice. They also explained that by taking call in the ER a few days a week, they are able to significantly raise their salaries.

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

From what I have heard, everyone will start out at the that range or even lower, but eventually you can make much more money. This is with almost every career. At the end of the day, I really hope you aren't going to be doing podiatry for the money, because there are many other ways out there to make much more money than 100k after taxes per year.

The podiatrists that I have talked to around here have been generous to share numbers with me (North Jersey area) and everyone is falling around the ballpark area of $150-180k when starting with a hospital or less when starting with a private practice. They also explained that by taking call in the ER a few days a week, they are able to significantly raise their salaries.

These types of posts perpetuate the confusion. I’m referencing surveys, not what people “tell” me.

You are early in your career and I would recommend you take the salaries that other docs tell you with a grain of salt. Do you discuss your salary with others? I certainly don’t and I don’t know many or actually any people who discuss their income. Unless you see their contracts or paychecks, those numbers are meaningless.

We had a local DPM who told all the residents his income which was pretty respectable. He bragged quite a bit and was a show-off. A year later he approached me about our practice possibly absorbing his practice and having him work with our group. So I saw his real numbers and his tax returns. Let’s just say our office manager had a much higher income than he did. It was all BS.

The most successful DPM I know wouldn’t let you know his income and is very modest about his success. So when these other docs tell you their income, please don’t take it as gospel.

I’ve purchased practices, I’ve consulted with practices and I’ve seen many tax returns and I don’t quote what can be expected. So moving forward with your career, try to base your opinion on facts and not hearsay.

I have no idea which of the surveys are correct or if any are remotely accurate. I don’t know how the gather data. Anyone can provide any number when submitting a survey response. I’m not sure how those incomes are verified, if at all.

I’ve been at this for quite a few years. I know DPMs who make $30,000 and I know those making millions and everywhere in between. There are no guarantees what you’ll make. None.

 

[med2345]

What about the employment in regards to the newer podiatrists (residency mandated) compared to the older podiatrists that are close to the ends of their careers (also since nearly all are trained in bone/ankle reconstruction)? Do you think the newer ones have better employment because they graduated and received training after compared to older podiatrists where residency was non-existent, shorter, or only fellowship trained?
Also, from what you've seen how important has been residency placement at good programs affected job opportunities and i guess subsequently pay (getting a job in a good multi-spec practice, orthopedic practice, hospital job etc)?

 

[air bud]

I don't understand those surveys at all. For a potential student I understand the confusion and trepidation. However any student who truly takes the time to learn about the profession and shadows multiple docs will be away having a better understanding. Those that are freaking out and asking all the questions are the ones just looking for a backup option.

 

[NatCh]

NatCh, couldn’t resist!!

I laughed.

look, I’m all about not going into something for the money, but if I’m only going to be grossing 120-140k after 7 years and 300k+ in student loan debt as a DPM ( like 90-100k after taxes), I think a different profession is in order.

I thought you'd decided on dentistry. Have you changed your mind?

 

[DexterMorganSK]

There are no guarantees what you’ll make. None.

My basic response to anyone asking for a DPMs salary.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I am aiming for dentistry as of right now, but have an acceptance at Podiatry school and weighing my options. This talk of salary though is kind of scaring me away from the field and lack of concrete numbers, unlike dentistry where it is very rare to be offered a contract for less than 120K/year with a ceiling much much higher, with no residency required.

I shadowed two different pods to see private practice vs Hospital one was established and one was fresh out of residency. They did discuss salary with me. The one in private practice said that his associate makes around 10K/month (120K/year) and the one at the hospital said she makes around 200K/year. The one at the hospital said that she was offered a position at the hospital she worked at in residency for 60K/year. That is a very scary number, and would probably be laughed at in any other health professional world with the exception of maybe optometry. I mean, pharmacists make 110K-120K/year (if they can find a full time job lol).

Im hesitant to enter the field because cost of attendance for podiatry school as of 2017 is around 50-70K/year depending on the school, and I'll probably end up with 300K+ in debt with interest. With no concrete number to pin down, it makes it hard in the cost benefit analysis of investing the time an money. Podiatry may be the greatest profession ever and super fun, but at the end of the day we gotta pay back our loans (preferably before we turn 50). I may love teaching, but to go 150K in debt when realistically a teachers salary is around 30-40K is poor financial planning.

I laughed.



I thought you'd decided on dentistry. Have you changed your mind?

 

[GypsyHummus]

Dexter, we all know you are going to have a side business once you get out of school. My bet is semi professional modeling career.

My basic response to anyone asking for a DPMs salary.

 

[med2345]

For what it's worth, I know about 10 dentists personally and every single one of them said if I go into it I need to be extremely careful. All of them complained about saturation in all cities and yes you'll find a job but it'll probably be a rural area. Atleast with podiatry saturation isn't an issue except maybe around schools. Dentistry is pretty straightforward but with podiatry atleast there a different routes you can take and the ceiling is higher
IMO.

PS... If you're going to complain about pod tuition have fun with dentistry. I know a dentist that's just out of residency working for 500 dollars a day and pays 100 of it a day just for INTEREST from her school. She went to Case Western. That's absurd

I am aiming for dentistry as of right now, but have an acceptance at Podiatry school and weighing my options. This talk of salary though is kind of scaring me away from the field and lack of concrete numbers, unlike dentistry where it is very rare to be offered a contract for less than 120K/year with a ceiling much much higher, with no residency required.

I shadowed two different pods to see private practice vs Hospital one was established and one was fresh out of residency. They did discuss salary with me. The one in private practice said that his associate makes around 10K/month (120K/year) and the one at the hospital said she makes around 200K/year. The one at the hospital said that she was offered a position at the hospital she worked at in residency for 60K/year. That is a very scary number, and would probably be laughed at in any other health professional world with the exception of maybe optometry. I mean, pharmacists make 110K-120K/year (if they can find a full time job lol).

Im hesitant to enter the field because cost of attendance for podiatry school as of 2017 is around 50-70K/year depending on the school, and I'll probably end up with 300K+ in debt with interest. With no concrete number to pin down, it makes it hard in the cost benefit analysis of investing the time an money. Podiatry may be the greatest profession ever and super fun, but at the end of the day we gotta pay back our loans (preferably before we turn 50). I may love teaching, but to go 150K in debt when realistically a teachers salary is around 30-40K is poor financial planning.

 

[air bud]

Thanks @ExperiencedDPM for starting another salary thread

 

[NatCh]

Thanks @ExperiencedDPM for starting another salary thread

Ha ha! Pre-pods’ favorite topic.

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

Thanks @ExperiencedDPM for starting another salary thread

Maybe you missed my point.

 

[AudiLova619]

Discussions of salary are popular on this site. For quite a while I’ve commented on some quotes that I thought were unrealistically high as an average. Knowing many very successful DPMS and knowing many who weren’t doing too well, I thought some of the numbers being tossed around were a bit high. Especially the MGMA.

So here are some stats that I found. One of the sources was a grid in Podiatry Management from 2016:

Bureau of Labor & Statistics
Median-119,340
Mean—-136,180

PM News Survey
Solo—--119,250
Partnership—148,150

APMA
Median—-142,500
Mean——-161,519

US News & World Report
Median——124,830
Mean———144,000

(Some numbers may be off a few dollars due to typos).

MGMA
Median——-280,714

So let’s analyze the numbers. They are “relatively” consistent until you look at the MGMA. What’s the reason the MGMA median is about $150,000 more than the other surveys? Doesn’t that seem a little odd that there would be that large of a discrepancy?

Maybe I’m missing something and don’t understand how these surveys work. In my opinion, the MGMA numbers have always seemed high and this may support my feeling.

The ONLY reasonable explanation I can come up with is this:

NaTCH wasn’t included in the APMA, PM News and US News and World Report Surveys. He WAS included in the MGMA survey which made the average skyrocket. After all, NaTCH does have the competitive advantage. How many of YOU have delivered chocolate feet to referral sources while wearing a Santa Claus suit??!!

When you mention pods that aren't doing too well. are you saying that in terms of salary? If so, are the 120k ones you are referring to that aren't doing too well?

 

[GypsyHummus]

All about dat money honey

Ha ha! Pre-pods’ favorite topic.

 

[air bud]

I rest my case....

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

I rest my case....

I can’t help the fact that these pre pods don’t comprehend what’s written. I keep reading salary posts that are all over the place. So I posted recent surveys including the discrepancy between some of the surveys and MGMA.

And I ended my comments with there is no guarantee or any specific salary. None.

I was hoping that would put an end to the recurring questions. But these “kids” don’t get it. Some of them couldn’t find gold in a jewelery store. They are too busy asking questions and ignoring the answers we all have provided.

 

[med2345]

I can’t help the fact that these pre pods don’t comprehend what’s written. I keep reading salary posts that are all over the place. So I posted recent surveys including the discrepancy between some of the surveys and MGMA.

And I ended my comments with there is no guarantee or any specific salary. None.

I was hoping that would put an end to the recurring questions. But these “kids” don’t get it. Some of them couldn’t find gold in a jewelery store. They are too busy asking questions and ignoring the answers we all have provided.

You roast the kids for salary questions yet when I’ve asked or others ask legitimate question regarding podiatry none of the residents or attendings answer. That’s probably why the forum is usually dead and only the salary threads get bumped... just sayin

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

You roast the kids for salary questions yet when I’ve asked or others ask legitimate question regarding podiatry none of the residents or attendings answer. That’s probably why the forum is usually dead and only the salary threads get bumped... just sayin

I’m not roasting anyone. If you do your homework you’ll see that this topic has been beaten to death. Instead of realizing there is simply NO accurate answer, there continues to be a barrage of the same questions. Salaries are all over the map and there are no guarantees. There are so many variables and despite dozens and dozens of posts, the same questions keep getting asked. Just sayin’........

 

[dr.phoot]

I can’t help the fact that these pre pods don’t comprehend what’s written. I keep reading salary posts that are all over the place. So I posted recent surveys including the discrepancy between some of the surveys and MGMA.

And I ended my comments with there is no guarantee or any specific salary. None.

I was hoping that would put an end to the recurring questions. But these “kids” don’t get it. Some of them couldn’t find gold in a jewelery store. They are too busy asking questions and ignoring the answers we all have provided.

Doc, one thing I'll draw to your attention--especially after having read through old threads this weekend--even among the physicians on this sub-board, there seems to be a split about this salary discussion. Your writing really sounds like an old banned user by the name of PADPM (nothing malicious intended here, just something that crossed me). But there have been threads where salaries are posted and it gives hope that #s in the 180 range are likely, and opportunities are out there. Only for another crowd of the podiatrist here to show up and say, "now, now, it's possible but let's be realistic....."

 

[med2345]

I’m not roasting anyone. If you do your homework you’ll see that this topic has been beaten to death. Instead of realizing there is simply NO accurate answer, there continues to be a barrage of the same questions. Salaries are all over the map and there are no guarantees. There are so many variables and despite dozens and dozens of posts, the same questions keep getting asked. Just sayin’........

Right so ignoring questions that actually matter like the one I asked while creating a thread for a unanswerable question (which by the way can also be seen with previous research) solves the problem or helps us pre pods. Noted.

 

[dr.phoot]

I'd like to echo some of the other posts here about the starting salary. 230-250k is what most hospitals are starting out freshly graduated Podiatrist from 3 year residency programs. My best friend graduated last year and accepted a job with Kaiser starting at 255k.

To the OP, this is a terrible offer. I am amazed that people are still considering contracts like these. Hal Ornstein is a businessman.

I'm not disputing that hospital salaries generally start in that range. But you are realistically talking about a very small percentage of overall positions or offers.

If you toss out the high and toss out the low, the average is still in the low 100 range. Likely between 90-110,000. I have personally reviewed dozens and dozens of contracts over the past few years. These include residents from varied geographical areas and offers from different geographical areas. The range I've seen spans from 55,000-270,000. The vast majority are in the 90-110,000 range with incentives.

Most of the grads who went into hospital practices were happy. A few had less than great experiences. Some complained they spent the day performing routine foot care and wound care. And were on call and called upon a lot for diabetic wounds, amputations, I & Ds, etc, with no glory work. That went to Ortho. Others had issues with high starting salaries that were renegotiated after 2-3 years to a lower number based on RVU production. Remember, the hospital can control what you see, they control the situation. It depends on what they send you or allow you to do.

Starting offers with ortho groups are generally higher and most are happy. Some were overworked, since ALL foot and ankle came their way, including being the only doc on call 52 weeks a year for foot and ankle call. Others are unhappy because in some states a DPM can not be a partner in an ortho group.

There are always highs and always lows. I've been around for a few more years than most on this site. I'm sincerely happy that some on this site are getting great offers. But I still hold to the opinion based on contracts I've reviewed, that the average offerss are between 90-110,000 plus incentives or 120-130,000 as a straight salary.

Hm..... two interesting perspectives here

 

[GypsyHummus]

@ExperiencedDPM, we understand that salaries can vary, the same way someone could make 80K or 400K selling insurance. The thing I dont understand about pod salary is how there is no consensus and no normalization. Every other healthcare profession kind of has expected norms, with nods to outliers.

ODs and Pharms tend to make 110K for full time work. Yes there are those making 300K+, but they are few and far between.

Dentists start off at around 120K-140K as an associate

MD/DO depends on the specialty, but each specilty is well defined. PCPs make slightly above 200K, Ortho docs make 400k+, EM makes 300K+, etc.

PAs and NPs make 80-120K

Nurse Anesthesia make 150K+

and so on.

I think the reason there is no real number for pods is that for a long time, there was no standard residency. 20 years ago, you had pods with 1, 2, 3, or no years of residency training, thus, limiting or expanding their skill set. I would imagine that a pod licensed in surgery would bring in more people than a pod that was restricted to palliative care.

 

[NatCh]

All about dat money honey

There are probably better choices than a career in medicine if money is your only objective.

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

Doc, one thing I'll draw to your attention--especially after having read through old threads this weekend--even among the physicians on this sub-board, there seems to be a split about this salary discussion. Your writing really sounds like an old banned user by the name of PADPM (nothing malicious intended here, just something that crossed me). But there have been threads where salaries are posted and it gives hope that #s in the 180 range are likely, and opportunities are out there. Only for another crowd of the podiatrist here to show up and say, "now, now, it's possible but let's be realistic....."

Again, there are many making excellent money from day one and many who are making insulting salaries. We are not anesthesiologists who are basically guaranteed a starting salary of at least 300k. Making 180,000 out of the gate is possible. I never said it’s unrealistic. I’d be very happy if there was a true average, but at this point, that simply doesn’t exist. It depends on the individual, it depends on training, it depends on location, and many other factors including luck. Being at the right place at the right time often can be a game changer.

 

[med2345]

@ExperiencedDPM, we understand that salaries can vary, the same way someone could make 80K or 400K selling insurance. The thing I dont understand about pod salary is how there is no consensus and no normalization. Every other healthcare profession kind of has expected norms, with nods to outliers.

ODs and Pharms tend to make 110K for full time work. Yes there are those making 300K+, but they are few and far between.

Dentists start off at around 120K-140K as an associate

MD/DO depends on the specialty, but each specilty is well defined. PCPs make slightly above 200K, Ortho docs make 400k+, EM makes 300K+, etc.

PAs and NPs make 80-120K

Nurse Anesthesia make 150K+

and so on.

I think the reason there is no real number for pods is that for a long time, there was no standard residency. 20 years ago, you had pods with 1, 2, 3, or no years of residency training, thus, limiting or expanding their skill set. I would imagine that a pod licensed in surgery would bring in more people than a pod that was restricted to palliative care.

This was the point I was was getting at (last paragraph) but I guess the “attendings” would rather make jokes than discuss factors and the changes of pod medicine

 

[ExperiencedDPM]

This was the point I was was getting at (last paragraph) but I guess the “attendings” would rather make jokes than discuss factors and the changes of pod medicine

Are you serious. Read dozens of past posts and you’ll also read about all the factors involved. And I repeated some again in a response above.

Podiatry has changed over the years with increased training and mandatory 3 year residencies. There are many from the “old days” who did very well and paved the road for young docs. And although podiatry has evolved, medicine itself has changed. There are more rules and regulations and more on the way. That WILL impact income.

Additionally, as I’ve stated before, in reality podiatry can and will be duplicated by dermatologists, physical therapists, wound care nurses, family doctors, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, orthopedic surgeons, etc.

Podiatry really isn’t unique and doesn’t own the foot and ankle. More services are being provided by ancillary providers and that ain’t good for podiatry.

Those are just a few more reasons salaries are all over the place.

 

[RedoxRxn]

Survey data is strange.

Anesthesiology
U.S. World News: $208,000 median
BLS.gov: $269,600 mean
Indeed: $178,964 mean

MGMA 2010 : $423,657 median

 

[air bud]

So how about everybody stops asking these questions? Its all over the place because it is. As @ExperiencedDPM said, a lot of luck is involved. Salaries are all over the place because they are. They are well outlined on this forum. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean its not true. So if you want to become a pod, buyer beware

 

[GypsyHummus]

Nothing that is secure and makes over 6 figures. Doctors bring a unique skill set that cannot easily be replaced, and will always be highly valued. People throw around IT or computer science a lot (mostly disgruntled PharmD), but just because the IT guy is pulling 80K/year doesnt mean he is immune to layoffs. Medicine is essentially recession proof, even the more elective things.

That is a problem I see with podiatry. While people always need foot care, there is a significant overlap in other medical specialties, and the DPM degree offers nothing that other professionals cant do. Need a wart removed? PCP can do that. Trim a corn or callus? NP can do that. Ingrown toenail? I think that PAs can do minor procedures. Even some of the heavier surgery stuff, Ortho can do. Only an Ortho doc can replace a knee (and maybe a general surgeon if they live in a rural area). NP cant replace a shoulder. PA cant put in a stent.

There are probably better choices than a career in medicine if money is your only objective.

 

[AudiLova619]

Nothing that is secure and makes over 6 figures. Doctors bring a unique skill set that cannot easily be replaced, and will always be highly valued. People throw around IT or computer science a lot (mostly disgruntled PharmD), but just because the IT guy is pulling 80K/year doesnt mean he is immune to layoffs. Medicine is essentially recession proof, even the more elective things.

That is a problem I see with podiatry. While people always need foot care, there is a significant overlap in other medical specialties, and the DPM degree offers nothing that other professionals cant do. Need a wart removed? PCP can do that. Trim a corn or callus? NP can do that. Ingrown toenail? I think that PAs can do minor procedures. Even some of the heavier surgery stuff, Ortho can do. Only an Ortho doc can replace a knee (and maybe a general surgeon if they live in a rural area). NP cant replace a shoulder. PA cant put in a stent.

but this isn't something new, podiatry has been around for many years and so have these other professions, and pods are still getting paid, in demand, and relevant.

 

[NatCh]

Doctors bring a unique skill set that cannot easily be replaced, and will always be highly valued.

Maybe, maybe not. On a daily basis (well, 2.5 days per week) I compete against Dr. Google. I think you need to get comfortable with the idea of no job security unless maybe you work for the government. Even then...

Rhetorical questions: How much money do you want to make? Is the answer "as much as possible?" What do you want to do with it? Why do you want that? What's your goal? Just to "make more money?"

This was the point I was was getting at (last paragraph) but I guess the “attendings” would rather make jokes than discuss factors and the changes of pod medicine

You don't like jokes? I like jokes. This profession is already full of enough self-serious, self-loathing, unhappy people as it is. Without jokes you end up a grumpy old f*****. We attendings can rib one another. It's part of camaraderie.

I do like that you put "attendings" in quotes though. Nice insult.

 

[GypsyHummus]

For what its worth, I appreciate the attending posting on the forums. Like the insight, but you guys are always so negative on podiatry. Where is the sunshine and rainbows that the MD/DOs and Dentists on the forum have? Oh well, at least you arnt as negative as the Pharmacists, that forum is depressing to read.

Maybe, maybe not. On a daily basis (well, 2.5 days per week) I compete against Dr. Google. I think you need to get comfortable with the idea of no job security unless maybe you work for the government. Even then...

Rhetorical questions: How much money do you want to make? Is the answer "as much as possible?" What do you want to do with it? Why do you want that?



You don't like jokes? I like jokes. This profession is already full of enough self-serious unhappy people as it is. Without jokes you end up a grumpy old f*****. We attendings can rib one another. It's part of camaraderie.

I do like that you put "attendings" in quotes though. Nice insult.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

For what its worth, I appreciate the attending posting on the forums. Like the insight, but you guys are always so negative on podiatry. Where is the sunshine and rainbows that the MD/DOs and Dentists on the forum have? Oh well, at least you arnt as negative as the Pharmacists, that forum is depressing to read.

Its because it seems like its a cycle: Podiatry students are on high with everything that theyre learning in school. Then their high reaches optimal levels in residency when they are doctors and diagnosing and doing surgeries and stuff. Then in their first or 2nd job they reach a low with all the political stuff that is added in that wasnt realized before and not feeling like they are reaching their potential based on their training. Then after a while it seems like they eventually fall somewhere in between the high of school and residency and the low of those early jobs and come to a "I enjoy it and do fine and live well" type of feeling. I could be wrong, but thats the sense I get when reading the posts on the podiatry forum. Seems like a cycle everyone goes through

 

[NatCh]

GypsyHummus, you didn't have to post your goals for everyone to see but I appreciate you being open about it. Pre-pods always seem to ask "how much money will I make" but when's the last time anyone's asked about the career itself? Talking about income all of the time gets stale. Do any of you care about the work you're going to be doing, or are you just looking to make a lot of money and that's good enough? Hopefully you guys choose something that's also going to give you career satisfaction, something that when you're at the other end you can say that what you did was meaningful. But that's my opinion, and maybe it's easy for me to say at this point because I make a comfortable living. If you guys just want to make money and don't really care how you do so then there are other ways that don't involve as much time and financial investment, not to mention the blood, sweat, and tears of medical training. It's easier to deal with all of the bull**** of practicing medicine if you at least like it.

Its because it seems like its a cycle: Podiatry students are on high with everything that theyre learning in school. Then their high reaches optimal levels in residency when they are doctors and diagnosing and doing surgeries and stuff. Then in their first or 2nd job they reach a low with all the political stuff that is added in that wasnt realized before and not feeling like they are reaching their potential based on their training. Then after a while it seems like they eventually fall somewhere in between the high of school and residency and the low of those early jobs and come to a "I enjoy it and do fine and live well" type of feeling. I could be wrong, but thats the sense I get when reading the posts on the podiatry forum. Seems like a cycle everyone goes through

smurfeyD, that's pretty astute.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I think most people entering podiatry would be satisfied with the work. Its beyond just enjoying the work, beacuse now schools require a 300K investment from you. I could like teaching Art, but that doesnt mean I go 100K in student loan debt for a BA in Art teaching on a 30K/year salary.

GypsyHummus, you didn't have to post your goals for everyone to see but I appreciate you being open about it. Pre-pods always seem to ask "how much money will I make" but when's the last time anyone's asked about the career itself? Talking about income all of the time gets stale. Do any of you care about the work you're going to be doing, or are you just looking to make a lot of money and that's good enough? Hopefully you guys choose something that's also going to give you career satisfaction, something that when you're at the other end you can say that what you did was meaningful. But that's my opinion, and maybe it's easy for me to say at this point because I make a comfortable living. If you guys just want to make money and don't really care how you do so then there are other ways that don't involve as much time and financial investment, not to mention the blood, sweat, and tears of medical training. It's easier to deal with all of the bull**** of practicing medicine if you at least like it.



smurfeyD, that's pretty astute.

 

[NatCh]

I think most people entering podiatry would be satisfied with the work. Its beyond just enjoying the work, beacuse now schools require a 300K investment from you. I could like teaching Art, but that doesnt mean I go 100K in student loan debt for a BA in Art teaching on a 30K/year salary.

I think a lot of people who entered podiatry didn't really know what they were getting themselves into.

That $300K investment is part of what I was talking about. You have to account for the money/time spent in addition to the money made since you'll be getting started later and in debt. Is the process going to be worth the investment? My wife's hair stylist make six figures owning a salon and she never got past high school. Same with my IT guy. A dental hygienist makes $73K and is an Associates degree. Family Nurse Practitioners make $90K after a four year BSN program. All of them could get started on their career path long before someone else who chose to go through medical school, and with less debt starting out, so they have a jump on you. Business school might be the best investment if all you care about is making bank. Become a CEO of a mid-sized medical group, make $400K/year plus annual $500K bonus, get fired in five years, take your two year salary severance pay, move on to the next group, repeat.

Here we are talking about income some more. I'm going to bed.

 

[med2345]

Maybe, maybe not. On a daily basis (well, 2.5 days per week) I compete against Dr. Google. I think you need to get comfortable with the idea of no job security unless maybe you work for the government. Even then...

Rhetorical questions: How much money do you want to make? Is the answer "as much as possible?" What do you want to do with it? Why do you want that? What's your goal? Just to "make more money?"



You don't like jokes? I like jokes. This profession is already full of enough self-serious, self-loathing, unhappy people as it is. Without jokes you end up a grumpy old f*****. We attendings can rib one another. It's part of camaraderie.

I do like that you put "attendings" in quotes though. Nice insult.

It was a “joke” bud, chill😉

 

[NatCh]

It was a “joke” bud, chill😉

Remind me to ignore your questions from now on.

 

[med2345]

Remind me to ignore your questions from now on.

Ah you’re doing a great job of carrying the unhappy pod attending stereotype.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

And now the bystander Pre-Pod student comes flying in from the side to suck the attendings off. Stay strong keyboard warrior.

You ask an attending a question, then cry when its not answered, then have a temper tantrum when they tell you you’re annoying. Then you try and get cute with responses, editing your comments when you think of more cute stuff to add.... but I’m the keyboard warrior.. lol again, stfu

 

[med2345]

You ask an attending a question, then cry when its not answered, then have a temper tantrum when they tell you you’re annoying. Then you try and get cute with responses, editing your comments when you think of more cute stuff to add.... but I’m the keyboard warrior.. lol again, stfu

And you come into a conversation that is further away from you than your receding hairline to your forehead on your FB pic. Don't come flying into something and tell me to stfu. FOH lmao

 

[Weirdy]

It was a “joke” bud, chill😉

Ah you’re doing a great job of carrying the unhappy pod attending stereotype.

And now the bystander Pre-Pod student comes flying in from the side to suck the attendings off. Stay strong keyboard warrior.

Seriously?

What Smurfey said was right, attending present or not.

Just because you can be rude doesn't mean you should.