% that pass boards

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30isthenew20

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Does anyone know where I can find info on which schools have the highest(-er) passing percentages for boards?
I read somewhere that UIC has a low number of people that pass but I have yet to confirm that info anywhere (I am not attacking UIC. It is just what I heard).

And does the percentage of students that pass correlate to the amount of time given by the institution to study?

thx
 
Does anyone know where I can find info on which schools have the highest(-er) passing percentages for boards?
I read somewhere that UIC has a low number of people that pass but I have yet to confirm that info anywhere (I am not attacking UIC. It is just what I heard).

And does the percentage of students that pass correlate to the amount of time given by the institution to study?

thx

If you are mostly interested in a few schools, you should ask their admissions offices directly. They have the statistics for their own school, and their relative rank, they just don't have the information for other schools. For example, Tufts gives you a booklet pre-interview that says they had a xx% passing rate last year, and lists 7 years prior, then says the national average was xx%, and that Tufts is ranked #x in various categories.
 
Thank you. I'll do that. I just wasn't sure if one place contained all that info. maybe predents could add that bit?
 
I believe predents gets a lot of its information from the ADEA guide, which as far as I know, does not include board passing percentages. It's not really a public stat. Like I said, schools are only told their own stats and how they rank compared to the nation, not individual schools.
 
Ah, gotcha.

Off topic, i was just looking at your profile on predents. Holy tough major batman!! Do you like unlv? I think I'm going to apply there.
 
Ah, gotcha.

Off topic, i was just looking at your profile on predents. Holy tough major batman!! Do you like unlv? I think I'm going to apply there.

UNLV is great in that the faculty seem very approachable, the class size is relatively small, and the equipment is sparkling new, being only 5 years old. It also seemed like they don't have an issue getting chair time or patients (which were problems at the other schools I got into). They also have all their books on DVD, which can be a pro or a con depending on the person.

Another point of interest that can be a pro or con is that it felt like UNLV has a higher percentage (compared to other schools) of married with children types. I think they said their average applicant was 25 years old 😛 It may have to do with the number of LDS students there.

What I don't like about UNLV is that it's separated from the undergrad campus (I'm big into school spirit, etc), and it's not located in the best of neighborhoods. People also seem to clock out by 6, so there's no campus life, and when I asked whether people study together, my guide said usually not.

I was actually planning on attending Tufts, but I was offered a full scholarship to go to Israel for a year to study Judaism, and Tufts would not let me defer while UNLV did, so that was the decision maker.

Btw, yea, in around 2005 or 2006 the school newspaper ran an article about how MIMG had the lowest average GPA of any other major at UCLA 😛
 
good to know. thanks! the chair time sounds good. iowa is another top choice of mine and everyone gets their own chair there too (but i think you have to schedule your own patients). my only hang up is biochem. i'm not sure that i'll have a chance to take it before i apply/enroll.

not sure if you saw my other post (ds with a family) but i'm the married with kids type so probably some of the things that bother you (separation from campus activity etc) are the same things that would appeal to me (not saying that i'm not involved. i am. but sometimes i just need to get back to the fam). my husband is really excited about football/basketball games so going to a school with the sports potential is pretty exciting for him. i just don't know how it will be to have little ones in las vegas/bad part of town.

but books on dvd sounds like a fantastic feature!! i could totally get on board with that. my chem prof now uses a lot of educational videos (like 30 sec or a minute) and i find it super helpful.
 
Although I said that the school isn't in a great neighbor, I'm pretty sure there are nice neighborhoods within 10 minutes driving distance. It's just that the immediate surrounding area isn't rosebushes and petunias. I'm the religious type, and hopefully the married with kids type sometime in the next few years, and I'm only mildly concerned about the area for young kids. I feel like it would be relatively easy to prevent them from being exposed to any really bad things. As teenagers though, I dunno. I know there is an Orthodox Jewish community in Las Vegas, and that it's the fastest growing Jewish population in the country, so obviously people have figured out how to handle the situation. The Mormons must have it figured out too, since I hear there's a decent number of them in Vegas as well.
 
that many orthodox jews and mormans live in vegas? really?! that is so counter-intuitive. i mean, all that debauchery side-by-side with extremely devout folks. i know there's much more to vegas than the strip but... it seems that if the values of a person are so far from the values of the environment...
but glad there are decent neighborhoods around the area. i think i'd be more worried about my son in a college town if he were 14 or 16 or something. at 3-7, i think he'll be ok.
 
Yea, "fastest growing" doesn't necessarily mean "big", but I was surprised it existed at all as well. I currently live in an area in California with one synagogue, very few observant Jews (I only personally know of about 5), and no Kosher restaurants. Meanwhile Las Vegas is sporting multiple observant synagogues, and more than a handful of kosher markets and restaurants. It's like an oasis to me, haha 😛
 
that is hilarious! las vegas a religious oasis?!? 😀 thanks for making my day!!!

(side note: that's awesome that you found what you were looking for!)
 
Does anyone know where I can find info on which schools have the highest(-er) passing percentages for boards?
I read somewhere that UIC has a low number of people that pass but I have yet to confirm that info anywhere (I am not attacking UIC. It is just what I heard).

And does the percentage of students that pass correlate to the amount of time given by the institution to study?

thx

There needs to be a book that has this info for all the dental schools. That way we could use it to rank the schools instead of ranking them by undergraduate GPAs and DAT scores which doesnt make sense at all in my opinion.
 
There needs to be a book that has this info for all the dental schools. That way we could use it to rank the schools instead of ranking them by undergraduate GPAs and DAT scores which doesnt make sense at all in my opinion.

Well, considering that undergrad GPA and DAT are highly correlated to boards scores, ranking schools by boards scores must not make much sense either.
 
Well, considering that undergrad GPA and DAT are highly correlated to boards scores, ranking schools by boards scores must not make much sense either.

👍
 
it isn't an absolute ranking and i wouldn't use it by itself. but i think that how many students pass boards say something about how well, if at all, the profs help you prepare for those tests. it also may take into consideration if the school gives you time off from classes to study for your boards.
but i agree there are many other factors: student's ability to take a standardized test, mood on that day, background knowledge, sheer luck...
but if you have a school that you like, and they have solid dat/gpa average, and a good number of their students pass the boards on the first time, and there's good chair time etc etc etc then it could help make a decision.
 
it isn't an absolute ranking and i wouldn't use it by itself. but i think that how many students pass boards say something about how well, if at all, the profs help you prepare for those tests. it also may take into consideration if the school gives you time off from classes to study for your boards.
but i agree there are many other factors: student's ability to take a standardized test, mood on that day, background knowledge, sheer luck...
but if you have a school that you like, and they have solid dat/gpa average, and a good number of their students pass the boards on the first time, and there's good chair time etc etc etc then it could help make a decision.

You do realize that every school's first time boards passing rate is going to be in the 95%+ range, right? Passing boards isn't hard, doing well on them is. It'd be hard to place blame on anyone but the students shoulders for not being prepared enough to get a 50% on a test.
 
no i didn't know that. so let's change the question.
what % of students do well on their boards the first time? Is over 60% a good number? 75%?
I'm just trying to get as much info as possible.
 
Just FYI you are going to be hard pressed to find a student who doesn't cram with some form of dental decks right before the test. While some schools may prepare you to do better, in the end it is the effort of the student to go above and beyond to get a great score.
 
Just FYI you are going to be hard pressed to find a student who doesn't cram with some form of dental decks right before the test. While some schools may prepare you to do better, in the end it is the effort of the student to go above and beyond to get a great score.

totally agreed. i just thought it might be interesting to find out.
it appears that it is a wild goose chase and that's ok. but if anyone ever comes across any sort of stats like that, let me know! 🙂
 
Well, considering that undergrad GPA and DAT are highly correlated to boards scores, ranking schools by boards scores must not make much sense either.

Right it is likely that DAT scores and GPAs will correlate with how well someone will do on the boards. But this might not always be the case.

Is it possible to do mediocre in undergrad but do extremely well in dental school?.... Yes
Everyone's grades in high school don't always correlate to their grades in college. Just like everyone's grades in college don't always correlate to their grades in grad school. Just because you do poorly on the SAT doesn't mean you are guaranteed to do bad on the DAT. A good score on the DAT doesn't imply a good score on the boards. Right? GPAs and DATs only gauge person's success for brief moment in time. Who knows what could have been going on in your life when you were in undergrad or who knows what could have happened that day you took the DAT.

That's why some schools with lower matriculate DAT/GPAs (i.e Howard, Meharry, Tufts) give those that may have had a bad stretch in undergrad (due to socioeconomic status, racism, death in the family, etc.) a chance to be successful.

I would rather rank schools based on how well its dental students do WHILE THEY ARE IN DENTAL SCHOOL. Doesn't that seem more logical to you?? How well a person does on a DAT has nothing to do with the quality of the education that a dental school offers.

It doesn't make sense to rank a dental school solely based on how well its students did in undergrad and on the DAT because rankings done in this manner leave out many relevant factors.👍

Now... do we all agree on this?
 
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Right it is likely that DAT scores and GPAs will correlate with how well someone will do on the boards. But this might not always be the case.

Is it possible to do mediocre in undergrad but do extremely well in dental school?.... Yes
Everyone's grades in high school don't always correlate to their grades in college. Just like everyone's grades in college don't always correlate to their grades in grad school. Just because you do poorly on the SAT doesn't mean you are guaranteed to do bad on the DAT. A good score on the DAT doesn't imply a good score on the boards. Right? GPAs and DATs only gauge person's success for brief moment in time. Who knows what could have been going on in your life when you were in undergrad or who knows what could have happened that day you took the DAT.

Right. That's why it's a correlation, not a perfect causal relationship. Yet still it stands to reason that a school that selects for students with high DAT/GPA will have higher boards scores.

That's why some schools with lower matriculate DAT/GPAs (i.e Howard, Meharry, Tufts) give those that may have had a bad stretch in undergrad (due to socioeconomic status, racism, death in the family, etc.) a chance to be successful.

I understand that. My own school is a poster child for that exact concept, at least as expressed by one of the top admissions people at the last pre-dental event we had. I myself had a poor undergrad experience for one of the reasons you mentioned above.

I would rather rank schools based on how well its dental students do WHILE THEY ARE IN DENTAL SCHOOL. Doesn't that seem more logical to you?? How well a person does on a DAT has nothing to do with the quality of the education that a dental school offers.


You've misunderstood my point. I totally agree with you, it is pointless to rank dental schools on how their students did in undergrad. It offers nothing to the person looking to see where they should go. So wouldn't you agree that it's pointless to rank them on a statistic for which the school may have very little control over other than admissions? If the boards score you're going to get is largely determined by the student, not the school, then looking at boards scores is just another method of evaluating the student body instead of the actual education the school provides.
 
If the boards score you're going to get is largely determined by the student, not the school, then looking at boards scores is just another method of evaluating the student body instead of the actual education the school provides.

that may be true, but as we don't have the opportunity to find out the actual education a school provides until we attend/experience, we have to come up with some way to differentiate between schools and their strengths. it isn't a ranking. we all know a certain school will excel at one topic, while another is great at another. that isn't to say that one school is better than the other, but it may help us to know which school we should strive for (according to where we fit as an individual).

random analogy but ... i am married and we have a little boy. one of the criteria i consider is how much will daycare cost. that is completely arbitrary, has nothing to do with the quality of the school, and is useless data for anyone without a child. however would be of high importance in choosing, say, nyu or ucla versus creighton or ohio state. so if i ask sdn, which school has a higher cost of living, it isn't a ranking, it is just information that helps make a decision.

so if i have offers at two schools, and i know that the 85% students at school A score 80% or higher first time taking boards and 85% of students at school B score between 50 and 60%, then i may take that into consideration (knowing that a vast array of factors could affect that statistic)
more than the student body's average dat or gpa.
(clearly, these are made-up numbers...)
 
If the boards score you're going to get is largely determined by the student, not the school, then looking at boards scores is just another method of evaluating the student body instead of the actual education the school provides.

I was with you up until that sentence.
The board scores ARE indicative of the education that the dental school provides. The information you need to pass the boards comes from the education you receive from dental school you attend... right?
In dental school, isn't the goal to teach students what they need to know in order to do well on the boards and become dentists? How well dental students do on the boards at a particular dental school reflects on how well that dental school prepared its students.

You are saying that using boards scores to rank schools is just as bad as using GPAs and DATs. Correct?
I disagree. Dental schools have way more control over how well their dental students do on the boards than they do over how well their students DID in undergrad.

The education you receive at a dental school has zero control over your test scores while in undergrad. So GPAs/DATs are useless in ranking dental schools.

The education you receive at a dental school has a substantial amount of control over how well your test scores are while you are in that dental school. So board scores are much more useful in ranking dental schools.
You dont agree with this?
 
I was with you up until that sentence.
The board scores ARE indicative of the education that the dental school provides. The information you need to pass the boards comes from the education you receive from dental school you attend... right?
In dental school, isn't the goal to teach students what they need to know in order to do well on the boards and become dentists? How well dental students do on the boards at a particular dental school reflects on how well that dental school prepared its students.

You are saying that using boards scores to rank schools is just as bad as using GPAs and DATs. Correct?
I disagree. Dental schools have way more control over how well their dental students do on the boards than they do over how well their students DID in undergrad.

The education you receive at a dental school has zero control over your test scores while in undergrad. So GPAs/DATs are useless in ranking dental schools.

The education you receive at a dental school has a substantial amount of control over how well your test scores are while you are in that dental school. So board scores are much more useful in ranking dental schools.
You dont agree with this?

I don't agree with this train of thought. Basically you are using an analogy similar to saying that the caliber of your undergraduate school is indicated by your DAT scores. This would be true if the only materials used to prepare for the DAT were what you learned in class. However, just like the DAT students prepare using outside sources such as dental decks. Just like you are hard pressed to find someone who aced the DAT just by going to class, you will be hard pressed finding someone who aced the boards just by going to class. Maybe at some schools it will be possible to pass just by attendance but that is still in large part due to the student making the most of the time available and less so the school, otherwise this would be a more commonly observed pattern.
 
I don't agree with this train of thought. Basically you are using an analogy similar to saying that the caliber of your undergraduate school is indicated by your DAT scores. This would be true if the only materials used to prepare for the DAT were what you learned in class. However, just like the DAT students prepare using outside sources such as dental decks. Just like you are hard pressed to find someone who aced the DAT just by going to class, you will be hard pressed finding someone who aced the boards just by going to class. Maybe at some schools it will be possible to pass just by attendance but that is still in large part due to the student making the most of the time available and less so the school, otherwise this would be a more commonly observed pattern.

I think how well you do on the DAT/MCAT is in some way a reflection of how well you were taught in undergrad and can be used to a certain extent to evaluate the undergraduate school you came from. I didn't see anything on the DAT that I hadn't seen before in undergrad. Now some of the stuff I remembered because of a combination of the way it was taught to me at my school and some of it I remembered because of my own studying. A lot of the stuff I just forgot and got wrong. But all of the DAT material was taught to me at some point in time in undergrad. With the exception of the PAT everybody here should have somewhat mastered the subjects on the DAT solely as a result of the education they received at their university and the DAT score would have reflected that education to a certain extent. For example at some schools OC is a joke. Their exams are easy as hell. But some schools demand you to master the subject a little more in order to pass the classes. Is this not true? How well you were taught in college will play a factor in how well you do on the DAT.
Undergrad Education + Independent Studying = How well you do on DAT

You mean to tell me that after all the studying students do in dental school, and all the tests, and all the time in the lab that you haven't been taught everything you need to know to pass the national boards?!! Now you may not remember everything you learned but the dental school has made their best effort to teach it to you. And that level of effort is what determines how good the dental school education is. Some dental schools will demand that their students master those subjects a little more to pass their exams than other dental schools will. And this level of difficulty will be reflected in the scores students make on the boards. What you learn in dental school and how you were taught it will play a MAJOR role in how well you do on the boards regardless of how much extra time you put in with dental decks. Don't get me wrong it would be stupid not to do extra independent studying, but the foundation you use to do well on the boards will come from how well the dental school you attend built that foundation.
Dental School Education + Independent Studying = How well you score on the Boards

Some dental schools will build those foundations a little better than others schools will, and the first term in that equation will be higher resulting in higher boards scores.

Bottom line, you cant tell me that how well you are taught at a dental school has nothing to do with how well you do on the national boards. And if it has ANYTHING to do with how well you do on the boards then board scores can be used to rank the strength of that dental schools education.

Now are you telling me that how good the education is at your dental school is has NOTHING to do with how well you do on the boards???
If this is what you are saying then we will have to agree to disagree.
 
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Now are you telling me that how good the education is at your dental school is has NOTHING to do with how well you do on the boards???
If this is what you are saying then we will have to agree to disagree.

I see you're having trouble understanding what I mean by correlation, so I'll make an analogy.

2 dental schools, UA and UB.

UA has an average entering GPA of 3.7, and an average entering DAT of 21
UB has an average entering GPA of 3.1, and an average entering DAT of 18

UA has an average boards score of 89
UB has an average boards score of 81

Now, imagine you reversed time and pt all the UA students through UB's curriculum, and vice versa. Do you think that all the UB students, having gone through UA's curriculum will now have an 89 average on boards? Will all the UA students going through UB's curriculum do so much poorer?

Remember, there's a clear fallacy in your argument. Boards scores are not a reflection of how well a school teaches a subject, it's a reflection of how well that school's students learned the subject. While teaching methodology is an important component of how well students learn a topic, there's much, much more at play.
 
I see you're having trouble understanding what I mean by correlation, so I'll make an analogy.

2 dental schools, UA and UB.

UA has an average entering GPA of 3.7, and an average entering DAT of 21
UB has an average entering GPA of 3.1, and an average entering DAT of 18

UA has an average boards score of 89
UB has an average boards score of 81

Now, imagine you reversed time and pt all the UA students through UB's curriculum, and vice versa. Do you think that all the UB students, having gone through UA's curriculum will now have an 89 average on boards? WIll all the UA students going through UB's curriculum do so much poorer?

Yes.
Is this scenario possible?
You put the dumber UB students through the UA curriculum and they get higher boards scores than they would have had in the UB curriculum, maybe just as high as the UA students did in your scenario.

You put the smarter UA students through the UB curriculum and they get lower board scores than they would have had in the UA curriculum, maybe just as low as the UB students did in your scenario.

Conclusions: The UA curriculum is better regardless of the skill level of its entering students. The UA curriculum prepares its students better than UB's does for the boards. And GPA/DATs of entering students don't necessarily correlate with the strength of the dental school's curriculum and should not be used to rank the dental schools. Under this scenario the strength of UA's curriculum is responsible for the UB students doing well on the boards.

So you rank the dental schools by the board scores to see which one is better, because in this scenario the board scores CORRELATE with the strength of the dental school.

Isn't it possible for this to happen?

Remember, there's a clear fallacy in your argument. Boards scores are not a reflection of how well a school teaches a subject, it's a reflection of how well that school's students learned the subject. While teaching methodology is an important component of how well students learn a topic, there's much, much more at play.

Your right. Boards scores are a reflection of how well the school teaches a subject and how well the students learned the subject as I said before. The quality of the education is a factor!
Dental School Education + Independent Studying = How well you do on the Boards
You don't agree with my equation lol?
If you disagree with that equation then we will have to agree to disagree.
 
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Yes.
Is this scenario possible?
You put the dumber UB students through the UA curriculum and they get higher boards scores than they would have had in the UB curriculum, maybe even higher than the UA students did in your scenario.

You put the smarter UA students through the UB curriculum and they get lower board scores than they would have had in the UA curriculum, maybe even lower than the UB students did in your scenario.

Conclusions: The UA curriculum is better regardless of the skill level of its entering students. The UA curriculum prepares its students better than UB's does for the boards. And GPA/DATs of entering students don't necessarily correlate with the strength of the dental school's curriculum and should not be used to rank the dental schools. But under this scenario the strength of UA's curriculum is responsible for the UB students doing well on the boards.

So you rank the dental schools by the board scores to see which one is better.

Isn't it possible for this to happen?

While technically it is possible, there's no body of research to support that possibility. There's a large body of research to support the fact that people who perform well on tests (GPA/DAT), continue to perform well on tests in the future. This is the basis on which almost all professional programs select students.

Now, it's your prerogative to reject that ideal if you deem so fit, but it doesn't mean that decision is logical or holds up under scrutiny.
 
While technically it is possible, there's no body of research to support that possibility. There's a large body of research to support the fact that people who perform well on tests (GPA/DAT), continue to perform well on tests in the future. This is the basis on which almost all professional programs select students.

Now, it's your prerogative to reject that ideal if you deem so fit, but it doesn't mean that decision is logical or holds up under scrutiny.

All I'm saying is that we should choose the method of ranking dental schools that will be accurate the ALL OF THE TIME, even in the relatively rare cases like the one I presented. Ranking dental schools by board scores will be accurate all of the time. Ranking them by DAT/GPAs wont.

Be back in a few hours.👍
 
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All I'm saying is that we should choose the method of ranking dental schools that will be accurate the ALL OF THE TIME, even in the relatively rare cases like the one I presented.

No such criterion exists, not to mention that ranking, even in theory, is purely subjective. Any ranking only works if the consumer (pre-dent, pre-med) agrees with the methodology. For example, a ranking based on average boards score would likely to be meaningless for someone not intending on specializing.
 
No such criterion exists, not to mention that ranking, even in theory, is purely subjective.

Ranking based on board scores is the closest thing we have to accurately ranking dental schools. For the reasons I mention above.

Any ranking only works if the consumer (pre-dent, pre-med) agrees with the methodology. For example, a ranking based on average boards score would likely to be meaningless for someone not intending on specializing.

Dental school rankings in general (regardless of what they are based on) shouldn't matter period unless you are trying to specialize. But I don't think everybody on here seeking dental school ranks are doing so because they want to specialize. They just want to know how well they will be trained or they just want to be able to say they went to certain school. I feel that a board score is the best indicator we have to show how well a dental student has been trained.
 
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Ranking based on board scores is the closest thing we have to accurately ranking dental schools. For the reasons I mention above.

Dental school rankings in general (regardless of what they are based on) shouldn't matter period unless you are trying to specialize. But I don't think everybody on here seeking dental school ranks are doing so because they want to specialize. They just want to know how well they will be trained or they just want to be able to say they went to certain school. I feel that a board score is the best indicator we have to show how well a dental student has been trained.

Well given these comments, all I can say is that this is America and you're welcome to believe whatever you want, regardless of how baseless or nonsensical it may be. I just elaborated on several reasons and provided some good evidence on why boards scores may not be everything you think it is, but all you've done to refute that is wildly twisted a common sense scenario into a far-reaching "what-if" scenario and claimed victory.

Lastly, saying the best indication of training as a dentist involves a multiple choice test involving sciences which have very little at all to do with day-to-day dentistry opens a watermelon sized hole in your leaky rowboat of an argument.
 
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Well given these comments, all I can say is that this is american and you're welcome to believe whatever you want, regardless of how baseless or nonsensical it may be. I just elaborated on several reasons and provided some good evidence on why boards scores may not be everything you think it is, but all you've done to refute that is wildly twisted a common sense scenario into a far-reaching "what-if" scenario and claimed victory.

Lastly, saying the best indication of training as a dentist involves a multiple choice test involving sciences which have very little at all to do with day-to-day dentistry opens a watermelon sized hole in your leaky rowboat of an argument.

Man why do you have to insult my argument like that? I don't think I have said anything that is illogical or far fetched.

Since you are in dental school you know more about the boards than I do. So if you say that the boards don't test you on what you need to know as a dentist then I have to take your word for it. But I assumed that the boards test you on what you need to know to be a dentist. Whats the purpose of taking them in the first place if they aren't testing you on what you need to know to practice dentistry? They need to revise the tests then if thats the case.
 
I think that you guys are leaving out one important factor for dental schools: clinical experience. To me clinical experience is a very important factor for both those who don't specialize. For example, while Harvard has really high stats for their applicants and probably high boards pass rates, Harvard emphasizes didactics heavily over clinical. Furthermore, Harvard dental school puts heavy emphasis on research. The result is much less hands-on experience, which would probably result in a sub par general dentist.
 
But I assumed that the boards test you on what you need to know to be a dentist. Whats the purpose of taking them in the first place if they aren't testing you on what you need to know to practice dentistry? They need to revise the tests then if thats the case.

Everyone should know armorshell is right here...I could go but I think one person attacking you is enough.
 
I think that you guys are leaving out one important factor for dental schools: clinical experience. To me clinical experience is a very important factor for both those who don't specialize. For example, while Harvard has really high stats for their applicants and probably high boards pass rates, Harvard emphasizes didactics heavily over clinical. Furthermore, Harvard dental school puts heavy emphasis on research. The result is much less hands-on experience, which would probably result in a sub par general dentist.

Are you sure about this, or is this the part of the endless SDN echo chamber?
 
The Las Vegas area was settled by Mormons in the 1850s. Nothing new about that.

Didn't know that. Jewish mobsters also built the city into what it is today 😱
 
To the OP, if you really want a statistic that is even more important than board first time pass rates, you should look into the various 4-year graduation rates of the schools you are interested in. In order to graduate in 4 years, you have to pass the boards at some point.

Imagine two different schools, A and B.
School A starts with a 1st year class of 100 people. 1 person fails out in the first two years and then 94 out of 99 pass the boards on the first try. The other 5 people pass it on their 2nd and 3rd tries. In the end 99 out of 100 pass the boards.

School B starts with a 1st year class of 100 people. They have a very tough curriculum and a 100% 1st time board pass rate. Unfortunately, 13 out of the 100 fail out in the first two years before they ever make it to the boards. In the end, only 87 out of the original 100 pass the boards and 13 people have a bunch of loans and no degree or dental license to help them pay for it.
 
Everyone should know armorshell is right here...I could go but I think one person attacking you is enough.

Just for clarification. Everybody here thinks that ranking schools based on Boards scores is just as bad as ranking them based on DAT scores and Undergrad GPAs. Right?

All I'm saying is ranking a dental school based on how well its students do the Boards taken while they were in that dental school is a little bit better than ranking a dental school based on its students DATs and undergrad GPAs earned before they got in the dental school.
Everybody disagrees with this?


The boards have to indicate your ability to be a dentist more than a DAT score or an undergrad GPA can. So it would be more logical to rank a dental school based on how well its students do on the boards while they are at that dental school.

I'm not trying to argue. I really just need to understand. If boards don't assess your skills to be a dentist (even in the least bit) then why do we have to take them?
 
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I totally agree with you, it is pointless to rank dental schools on how their students did in undergrad. It offers nothing to the person looking to see where they should go. So wouldn't you agree that it's pointless to rank them on a statistic for which the school may have very little control over other than admission?

Dental schools have more control over how well its students do on the Boards than they have over how well its students do in undergrad don't they?
 
Dental schools have more control over how well its students do on the Boards than they have over how well its students do in undergrad don't they?

No. Oh, unless you mean the the mind control chip they plant in our brains, then yes.

On a non-sarcastic note, still no. If anything they have more control over how well they did in undergrad. Because they already know how well they did in undergrad when they accept them but they have no idea how they will do on the boards. Sure they teach the material on the boards, but if they could don't you think they would have all students pass? It would certainly make their school look good. I think most of what you learn for the boards is independent anyways.
 
Dental school rankings in general (regardless of what they are based on) shouldn't matter period unless you are trying to specialize. But I don't think everybody on here seeking dental school ranks are doing so because they want to specialize. They just want to know how well they will be trained or they just want to be able to say they went to certain school.

If that's the case, it would still mean more if they went to a dental school with a dominant reputation with the public, such as a highly ranked/popular undergrad, than to a school with a ranking based on board scores or undregrad grades.

Schools like USC, NYU, Harvard, Columbia, UCLA, and Michigan will always draw more "oou"s and "aah"s from most people than schools like Stony Brook, UoP, UCSF, UConn, Pittsburgh, or Maryland.
 
If that's the case, it would still mean more if they went to a dental school with a dominant reputation with the public, such as a highly ranked/popular undergrad, than to a school with a ranking based on board scores or undregrad grades.

Schools like USC, NYU, Harvard, Columbia, UCLA, and Michigan will always draw more "oou"s and "aah"s from most people than schools like Stony Brook, UoP, UCSF, UConn, Pittsburgh, or Maryland.

I was telling someone that I got into USC and she said, "OMG Congrats, that's like, the hardest school to get into!" She wants to be a dentist 😛
 
No. Oh, unless you mean the the mind control chip they plant in our brains, then yes.

On a non-sarcastic note, still no. If anything they have more control over how well they did in undergrad. Because they already know how well they did in undergrad when they accept them but they have no idea how they will do on the boards. Sure they teach the material on the boards, but if they could don't you think they would have all students pass? It would certainly make their school look good. I think most of what you learn for the boards is independent anyways.

My point exactly. Schools have WAY more control over how their dental students performed in undergrad than they do on how they will perform in dental school, because of the admissions process.
 
I was telling someone that I got into USC and she said, "OMG Congrats, that's like, the hardest school to get into!" She wants to be a dentist 😛

lol, the same thing happens when I tell people that I got into NYU, Tufts, and Michigan, "OMG!". When they hear I got into UIC, there is no such response, even though it's way harder to get into UIC, and it's a great dental school. It doesn't matter, because in Illinois, UIC has a really poor reputation as an undergrad... they're like, "yeah, don't go there.."
 
Sorry to bring this thread back. Having taken Part 1 now I have to say that I definitely disagree with my previous stance on using the Boards as a means to rank dental schools. The material you have to know to be successful on the boards (part 1 at least) is so unrelated to dentistry that how well a student does on the boards says nothing what so ever about that person's dental school or potential skills as a dentist.
A Part 1 score says more about that persons study habits and ability to learn large amounts of material in a short amount of time. 80% of the material is irrelevant in my opinion. The DAT is similar in that the majority of the material it tests you on is unrelated to your career path. The skills required to do well on either of these two tests are irrelevant when it comes to being a dentist. And therefore neither exams should be used to evaluate the quality of the training provided at a dental school.
Thinking logically from the outside looking in you would think that the National Dental Boards would test you on material pertaining to dentistry. I don't understand why the boards don't test you on relevant information. This like most things in life makes no sense.

There is no good way to rank dental schools period.

Just had to add this so that anyone reading the thread doesn't think im an idiot.
 
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Sorry to bring this thread back. Having taken Part 1 now I have to say that I definitely disagree with my previous stance on using the Boards as a means to rank dental schools. The material you have to know to be successful on the boards (part 1 at least) is so unrelated to dentistry that how well a student does on the boards says nothing what so ever about that person's dental school or potential skills as dentist.
A Part 1 score says more about that persons study habits and ability to learn large amounts of material in a short amount of time. 80% of the material is irrelevant in my opinion. The DAT is similar in that the majority of the material it tests you on is unrelated to your career path. The skills required to do well on either of these two tests are irrelevant when it comes to being a dentist. And therefore neither exams should be used to evaluate the quality of the training provided at a dental school.
Thinking logically from the outside looking in you would think that the National Dental Boards would test you on material pertaining to dentistry. I don't understand why the boards don't test you on relevant information. This like most things in life makes no sense.

There is no good way to rank dental schools period.

Just had to add this so that anyone reading the thread doesn't think im an idiot.

Let me be the first to commend you. Not on agreeing with me (though I also commend you for that), but for being honest enough to seek out a 2 year old argument of yours, admit wrong and publicly reverse your stance based on new evidence. This is not something you see every day.

Kudos.
 
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