The Bullying Culture of Medical School - NYTimes.com

[projectlogic]

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/...f=health&gwh=AC318E76A8671B96C84F25C211B62575

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[Mass Effect]

All the more reason med students should have a few years of life/real-world experience before entering med school. I think less med students would be intimidated/bullied/harassed into remaining quiet about such abuse if they had some experience behind them to know this kind of mistreatment and, in some cases assault (according to the article), NEVER flies in the work place, no matter the industry.

 

[redhotpokerb]

I don't think the culture can be changed any time soon. At least not within decades. Students have to just suck it up and learn to cope with the pressure

 

[Mass Effect]

I don't think the culture can be changed any time soon. At least not within decades. Students have to just suck it up and learn to cope with the pressure

Suck it up? Not on your life! It's called harassment and assault in some cases and I'm sorry, but no one "has to just suck it up."

 

[seelee]

two things have to happen.

1) Students need to report such abuse when it happens.
2) Students need to take extra care to not repeat the cycle.

My program is relatively benign. But there is still this pervasive believe (especially among the surgeons) that it's benign nature is a detriment rather than a benefit. There are still doctors who believe that they are allowed to be pricks, jerks, and bullies.

We see attendings act that way and we are inadvertently taught that it is how attendings are supposed to act.

 

[AlexMorph]

All the more reason med students should have a few years of life/real-world experience before entering med school. I think less med students would be intimidated/bullied/harassed into remaining quiet about such abuse if they had some experience behind them to know this kind of mistreatment and, in some cases assault (according to the article), NEVER flies in the work place, no matter the industry.

Ya, but this isn't business. Medicine is filled with egomaniacal pricks who will go out of their way to screw you over if you try to stand up to them. It's like challenging their authority. They don't take kindly to it.

I agree with you in that this nonsense has no place in medicine. I, for one, have no intention of "paying it forward" by abusing the med. students when I'm a resident. But when a resident/attending has all the power and you have practically none, it's hard (not impossible) to pick a fight and come out on top.

 

[Mass Effect]

two things have to happen.

1) Students need to report such abuse when it happens.
2) Students need to take extra care to not repeat the cycle.

My program is relatively benign. But there is still this pervasive believe (especially among the surgeons) that it's benign nature is a detriment rather than a benefit. There are still doctors who believe that they are allowed to be pricks, jerks, and bullies.

We see attendings act that way and we are inadvertently taught that it is how attendings are supposed to act.

Agree completely.

Ya, but this isn't business. Medicine is filled with egomaniacal pricks who will go out of their way to screw you over if you try to stand up to them. It's like challenging their authority. They don't take kindly to it.

I agree with you in that this nonsense has no place in medicine. I, for one, have no intention of "paying it forward" by abusing the med. students when I'm a resident. But when a resident/attending has all the power and you have practically none, it's hard (not impossible) to pick a fight and come out on top.

I disagree with the implication that the medical student is powerless. The medical student is paying to be taught, not abused. It may be dicey when we're talking about a resident calling a student stupid, but there is absolutely no question about physical intimidation or assault. That stuff cannot go unreported (that's why they think they can get away with it). Once it's documented by the school and, possibly by legal authorities, I fail to see how the resident can get away with screwing you over. He/she can give you more scut maybe, but unless you go to a school that doesn't give a damn about its students, how can he/she affect your career? It's not like he/she can fail you without raising eyebrows (assuming you're a decent student).

I mean, when we're talking about residents especially, I would think THEY'RE more vulnerable than the student once an incident like that is reported. What program wants a violent resident on their hands? Even an attending who physically assaulted a student would be at risk of losing his/her career.

 

[AlexMorph]

Agree completely.



I disagree with the implication that the medical student is powerless. The medical student is paying to be taught, not abused. It may be dicey when we're talking about a resident calling a student stupid, but there is absolutely no question about physical intimidation or assault. That stuff cannot go unreported (that's why they think they can get away with it). Once it's documented by the school and, possibly by legal authorities, I fail to see how the resident can get away with screwing you over. He/she can give you more scut maybe, but unless you go to a school that doesn't give a damn about its students, how can he/she affect your career? It's not like he/she can fail you without raising eyebrows (assuming you're a decent student).

I mean, when we're talking about residents especially, I would think THEY'RE more vulnerable than the student once an incident like that is reported. What program wants a violent resident on their hands? Even an attending who physically assaulted a student would be at risk of losing his/her career.

I see you point, but you are assuming all this is taking place in an ideal world. As it stands, it's not the way it works. I know of a few students in the class after mine that tried to report a resident's and attending's inappropriate behavior to the school. Want to guess where it got them? The residents and attendings came to find out what happened because the clerkship director basically ratted them out. The students then spent the rest of their rotation being entirely ignored, hated, and got ****ty evals at the end.

My example is anecdotal, yes, but I think there are more of these stories than the ones where the student came out on top.

I get that you want to change the fact that these kinds of things happen...but I'm not sure how you can.

You are also focusing on the extreme here. Not many students get physically abused. Tons get verbally abused. And it doesn't get taken seriously, unfortunately.

 

[da8s0859q]

I don't think the culture can be changed any time soon. At least not within decades. Students have to just suck it up and learn to cope with the pressure

If it doesn't change "within decades," it's because people took you up on your "advice." There is a line between "sucking it up because med school is hard" and "being a sheep and/or rolling over for unjustifiable behavior."

I'm fortunate in that my institution is pretty benign. I've gotten some comments which were completely out of line, but they were pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. I have seen some of my classmates get much worse treatment on occasion, but nothing like the horror stories I've heard elsewhere.

When I narrowed down my list of potential specialties, I realized that the two things they all had in common were that they allowed for life outside medicine, and that people in those specialties tended to be happier or at least more laid back. Now, my #1 criterion for residencies on my rank list is that they be comprised of people with whom I would be happy to have a beer after a hard day's work. There's my filter for hopefully avoiding at least a good amount of this sort of bull**** in medicine.

 

[beethousand]

I see you point, but you are assuming all this is taking place in an ideal world. As it stands, it's not the way it works. I know of a few students in the class after mine that tried to report a resident's and attending's inappropriate behavior to the school. Want to guess where it got them? The residents and attendings came to find out what happened because the clerkship director basically ratted them out. The students then spent the rest of their rotation being entirely ignored, hated, and got ****ty evals at the end.

My example is anecdotal, yes, but I think there are more of these stories than the ones where the student came out on top.

I get that you want to change the fact that these kinds of things happen...but I'm not sure how you can.

You are also focusing on the extreme here. Not many students get physically abused. Tons get verbally abused. And it doesn't get taken seriously, unfortunately.

it's sad how prevalent retaliation is in the "real world" despite the fact that there are supposed to be protections against it

 

[Mass Effect]

I see you point, but you are assuming all this is taking place in an ideal world. As it stands, it's not the way it works. I know of a few students in the class after mine that tried to report a resident's and attending's inappropriate behavior to the school. Want to guess where it got them? The residents and attendings came to find out what happened because the clerkship director basically ratted them out. The students then spent the rest of their rotation being entirely ignored, hated, and got ****ty evals at the end.

I guess it depends on what happened. Was it that they were pimping the students with unreasonable questions, making inappropriate jokes, etc. or were they being physically abusive? Not that any of it is right, but the latter would be taken seriously by any school that cares about its students and by any hospital that doesn't want a lawsuit on its hands. Maybe I'm just lucky. My school lets us report any such thing and we can do so anonymously. Based on what I've heard from students ahead of my class, that's how it works.

My example is anecdotal, yes, but I think there are more of these stories than the ones where the student came out on top.

Oh, I'm sure there are, just as there are stories about people getting harassed on the job in other fields and facing retribution when they report it. IMO, it doesn't mean they shouldn't report it. Every person needs to make the decision for themselves. My point was simply that med students shouldn't be told that they "have" to suck it up. They don't. They can make the choice to stand up for themselves.

I get that you want to change the fact that these kinds of things happen...but I'm not sure how you can.

I don't want to change the fact that these kinds of things happen (believe me, I'm no Pollyanna). I want to stop them from happening. The reason they happen is because students are afraid to talk. If more students would and a few residents/attendings would be held accountable, it would certainly put a dent in the number of cases.

You are also focusing on the extreme here. Not many students get physically abused. Tons get verbally abused. And it doesn't get taken seriously, unfortunately.

Well again, that's what I was focusing on mainly. I realize many get verbally abused and that's not right either. I just think the line is harder to draw there and that's why -- with different versions of the story -- schools sometimes don't know which party is telling the truth. Assault, however, is black and white.

 

[AlexMorph]

I guess it depends on what happened. Was it that they were pimping the students with unreasonable questions, making inappropriate jokes, etc. or were they being physically abusive? Not that any of it is right, but the latter would be taken seriously by any school that cares about its students and by any hospital that doesn't want a lawsuit on its hands. Maybe I'm just lucky. My school lets us report any such thing and we can do so anonymously. Based on what I've heard from students ahead of my class, that's how it works.



Oh, I'm sure there are, just as there are stories about people getting harassed on the job in other fields and facing retribution when they report it. IMO, it doesn't mean they shouldn't report it. Every person needs to make the decision for themselves. My point was simply that med students shouldn't be told that they "have" to suck it up. They don't. They can make the choice to stand up for themselves.



I don't want to change the fact that these kinds of things happen (believe me, I'm no Pollyanna). I want to stop them from happening. The reason they happen is because students are afraid to talk. If more students would and a few residents/attendings would be held accountable, it would certainly put a dent in the number of cases.



Well again, that's what I was focusing on mainly. I realize many get verbally abused and that's not right either. I just think the line is harder to draw there and that's why -- with different versions of the story -- schools sometimes don't know which party is telling the truth. Assault, however, is black and white.

Now these students at least reported it because they were not interested in going into that field. I've heard of students who have put up with a ton of crap simply because not honoring that rotation would have limited their prospects in that field.

I just wanna say I agree with what you are saying. The students do have a choice. But when it could potentially make the difference between doing well in a rotation vs. not doing well and this hurting your residency application...is it really a choice?

You could say, the students could just try to explain the situation on their interviews. This would be looked at more as a student who causes trouble as opposed to a student who ran into an unfortunate situation.

 

[Mass Effect]

Now these students at least reported it because they were not interested in going into that field. I've heard of students who have put up with a ton of crap simply because not honoring that rotation would have limited their prospects in that field.

I just wanna say I agree with what you are saying. The students do have a choice. But when it could potentially make the difference between doing well in a rotation vs. not doing well and this hurting your residency application...is it really a choice?

You could say, the students could just try to explain the situation on their interviews. This would be looked at more as a student who causes trouble as opposed to a student who ran into an unfortunate situation.

You're absolutely right. But at the same time, this can be said for all areas of life. If your boss harasses you and you report it, you can face retribution. If you're the victim of a crime and you report it, you can face retribution. If you're a kid and you're bullied in school and you report it, you face retribution. I think at some point, you just have to say enough is enough and decide whether or not your dignity is worth whatever may happen. To me, it is. I have pretty thick skin and can handle just about any verbal "comeback," though I may say a thing or two about it in my end-of-rotation evaluation. But any kind of physical altercation or threat of such a thing will be reported in a heartbeat. I feel that if I have a case (and in a situation like that, I'm pretty confident I would), it's the resident/attending who has some explaining to do about professionalism, violence in the work place, and lashing out physically.

 

[redhotpokerb]

Well they have already tried to build a program around it... If you have an idea, please do something about it when you can. Quite the opposite, I think pressure actually make good doctors.

 

[Mass Effect]

Quite the opposite, I think pressure actually make good doctors.

Pressure and abuse are two separate things. That's a fundamental concept significant to understanding this issue.

 

[projectlogic]

I don't think the culture can be changed any time soon. At least not within decades. Students have to just suck it up and learn to cope with the pressure

That's the exact type of attitude that allows this kind of stuff to occur in the first place.

 

[HughMyron]

Well they have already tried to build a program around it... If you have an idea, please do something about it when you can. Quite the opposite, I think pressure actually make good doctors.

There's a difference between "you did it wrong so I'm annoyed at you" and "you did it wrong so I'm going to commit assault and battery against you and not get reprimanded because I have an M.D. at the end of my name." I had no idea that physicians actually did such horrible things...it seems so juvenile really.

 

[Bane]

Medicine is becoming a ****ty field. There used to be a great payoff at the end of the road but that's disappearing.

I don't regret being in this field, but now it's just a job.

 

[redhotpokerb]

well Im not saying it is right. If you are medical students right now, you are going to face it. What are you going to do about it? Just prepare for it. Until you can change it, suck it up.

 

[Bojack Horseman]

One student recounted being slapped on the hand by a more senior doctor who said, "If teaching doesn't help you learn, then pain will."

I'm not trying to invalidate the content of the article, but I really think this example is poor. Makes me chuckle a bit.

 

[KnuxNole]

I'm not trying to invalidate the content of the article, but I really think this example is poor. Makes me chuckle a bit.

Don't mean to rub people the wrong way, but I read that comment and immediately assumed it must have been a foreign M.D. resident that would have said that.

 

[Mass Effect]

well Im not saying it is right. If you are medical students right now, you are going to face it. What are you going to do about it? Just prepare for it. Until you can change it, suck it up.

That's the defeatist attitude that keeps the cycle going. Suck it up? As I said earlier in this thread, no way would I suck it up when it comes to physical abuse.

 

[notbobtrustme]

**** rolls downhill and med students are at the bottom.

If there was whistleblower protections in place then speaking out wouldn't be so bad, but without them you are basically killing that rotation or career.

 

[Cannon]

**** rolls downhill and med students are at the bottom.

If there was whistleblower protections in place then speaking out wouldn't be so bad, but without them you are basically killing that rotation or career.

I'd argue that if your school doesn't do anything about student complaints, then it is a school not worth the price of attendance. Students need be able to stand up for themselves, albeit in a professional manner, and the institution should be backing them up. The time of god/doctors is over. If you can't do your job in a professional manner, you can not do your job; simple as that.

 

[redhotpokerb]

Haha I would really like to see one of you get on the news for calling out a mentoring physician during your internship or residency. Pretty sure most schools have these abuse going on. Good luck.

 

[Bojack Horseman]

Don't mean to rub people the wrong way, but I read that comment and immediately assumed it must have been a foreign M.D. resident that would have said that.

It would certainly take a strange person to complain about something like that

 

[Mass Effect]

Haha I would really like to see one of you get on the news for calling out a mentoring physician during your internship or residency. Pretty sure most schools have these abuse going on. Good luck.

Who said anything about the news? There are proper channels for reporting work place abuse and yes, that applies even to physicians working in hospitals.

 

[deleted113029]

good article, but not news and not surprising.

some attendings i've come across have been utterly abusive; most have been great, thankfully.

i've not reported attendings since they (mostly older attendings) will not change.

 

[Rollo]

A typical 3rd year medical student is an adult. As an adult, you need to learn to stand up for yourself and call a spade a spade.

My rotations have been mostly benign but I have been able to put a stop to any potential for verbal abuse when I suspect that a particular resident or attending is up to something. Now, it may help being a tall, fit male (I can "literally" stand up to most people and look them into eye to eye) so I'm not sure if it will work for everyone.

There is no reason for anyone to talk down to you or call you names or intimidate you no matter how old or experienced they are. And there is no reason for you to NOT stand up when these things happen. I can't remember the last time somebody's career was ruined in medicine simply because they called out a malignant behavior when they saw one.

 

[badasshairday]

You guys signed up to become doctors, not babies. So much whining these days. "OMG, I worked 16 hours and 1 minute on call last night, I HAVE TO REPORT THIS!"

EDIT: I just read the article. It is not OK to be verbally or physically abused.

 

[seelee]

Yeah, there can be retaliation...if you suck at dealing with it.

1) any instance of abuse, you DOCUMENT. Write down exactly what happened, when, where, who was present, who was the abuser/victim/observer/etc.

2) While you are on the rotation, keep your head down and work hard. Don't argue back, say "yes sir" and "no sir", show up on time, etc.

3) Study your ASS off for the shelf. The shelf is what will make or break you anyway.

4) After evaluations have been turned in, and you have a copy of them (for the love of God, make a copy) only then do you report abuse. But who do you report it too? If the clerkship director is a reasonable person, then you could go straight to him. If you are concerned about him blabbing to other program/clerkship directors, then you talk to your student service coordinator or dean of students. Somebody out of the loop who can go to bat for you.

5) it is imperative that when you report any abuse, that you do not come across as a whiny student who is pissed about his grade. This is when your documentation comes in handy. You have specifics. Quotes, dates, etc. Be ****ing diplomatic - say **** like "I know he is stressed out, but his behavior really prevents us from having a productive learning environment". Be logical, level headed, but not emotional.

 

[Mass Effect]

4) After evaluations have been turned in, and you have a copy of them (for the love of God, make a copy) only then do you report abuse

The rest of your post was great, but I totally disagree with this. If you get a wonderful evaluation, sure, report it then. But if you get anything less than great and you report abuse, it looks like you're just pissed about your eval, especially if the abuse happened weeks ago and it's only after you got your eval back that you opened your mouth. This destroys your credibility, imo.

 

[ucladoc2b]

The rest of your post was great, but I totally disagree with this. If you get a wonderful evaluation, sure, report it then. But if you get anything less than great and you report abuse, it looks like you're just pissed about your eval, especially if the abuse happened weeks ago and it's only after you got your eval back that you opened your mouth. This destroys your credibility, imo.

Hence, the first need for good, objective, and most importantly, ongoing, timely documentation. This would include specific details of the incident, the involved parties, time/date. If documentation is done retroactively, your point is more valid. However, if there are ongoing problems with the more senior physician, this will establish a timeline and a history.

 

[Rollo]

Hence, the first need for good, objective, and most importantly, ongoing, timely documentation. This would include specific details of the incident, the involved parties, time/date. If documentation is done retroactively, your point is more valid. However, if there are ongoing problems with the more senior physician, this will establish a timeline and a history.

Where do you guys document this stuff ?

 

[batch5000]

Where do you guys document this stuff ?

I would just write a note in the patient's chart whom you were caring for when the attending abused you.

 

[duckie99]

This kind of stuff is usually at the fault of the resident, fellow, or attending being a complete ass. When a student does something bad, wrong, dumb, dangerous, etc the proper way to express to the student what happened is not to yell, abuse, degrade, etc. The issue is that this then gets passed to students and the cycle repeats when they get to a higher level.

But it's not like this is confined to med schools. Abuse of trainees happens in all sectors of the economy.

 

[Mass Effect]

Hence, the first need for good, objective, and most importantly, ongoing, timely documentation. This would include specific details of the incident, the involved parties, time/date. If documentation is done retroactively, your point is more valid. However, if there are ongoing problems with the more senior physician, this will establish a timeline and a history.

If there's no proof or witness, it doesn't really matter though. You can document it, but it's still your word against his/hers and if looks like you're bitter about your evaluation, it still taints your credibility. If there's a witness, then I agree, wait. But if not and you wait, be prepared for some to doubt your motives.

 

[Cerena]

That's the exact type of attitude that allows this kind of stuff to occur in the first place.

I totally agree.
We need to be able to stand up for ourselves.

 

[greatnt249]

I would just write a note in the patient's chart whom you were caring for when the attending abused you.

The attending/resident doesn't sign off on what you write in the patient's chart?

 

[ucladoc2b]

If there's no proof or witness, it doesn't really matter though. You can document it, but it's still your word against his/hers and if looks like you're bitter about your evaluation, it still taints your credibility. If there's a witness, then I agree, wait. But if not and you wait, be prepared for some to doubt your motives.

Which I agree with. Probably would be best to do towards the end of the rotation (but not after). Usually, the sooner the incident(s) is reported, the easier it is to deal with.

 

[seelee]

I would just write a note in the patient's chart whom you were caring for when the attending abused you.

...you're kidding right? Just in case you aren't being sarcastic (god I hope you are), everyone do NOT DO THIS.


Oh and regarding my prior post. Every medical school nowadays has someone who's sole job is to ferret out bullying and mistreatment of students. If you don't feel like you can go to the clerkship director or attending with your concerns then find out who that person is (likely someone in the student services department) and report the abuse to them.

 

[HughMyron]

You guys signed up to become doctors, not babies. So much whining these days. "OMG, I worked 16 hours and 1 minute on call last night, I HAVE TO REPORT THIS!"

EDIT: I just read the article. It is not OK to be verbally or physically abused.

I don't think that's the issue...people are complaining about residents/attendings committing assault, battery, and sexual harassment and getting away with it because they have some initials at the end of their name.

 

[alpine37]

I had this one attending during a Cardiothoracic surgery rotation who would yell at me all the time. I tried to put myself in the surgeon's shoes and the stress involved with some of his surgeries- and a part of me said ,"this is good- I'll never forget that again." On the other hand the yelling would have the whole OR on edge and nervous about making any kind of mistake.

So where's the line when reporting verbal abuse? I've been made to feel like crap many times throughout my surgery electives (and for some reason I'm still pursuing surgery)... but never to the point where I thought, "Hey that's not nice- in fact that's abuse... I'm going to report that."

So when has anyone actually reported verbal abuse? Any examples?

 

[VenusinFurs]

For the record, I've never ever been physical assaulted by any residents or attendings. I've also never been yelled at. I don't call an admonishment yelling. I don't know where you all go that this is something that actually happens.

EDIT: we evaluate every rotation after we do it, and we have a space to report any abuse. I've never had to. While I've been made to feel dumb on certain rotations, it's always done in a subtle manner that could not actually be counted as abuse.

 

[alpinism]

The attending/resident doesn't sign off on what you write in the patient's chart?

...you're kidding right? Just in case you aren't being sarcastic (god I hope you are), everyone do NOT DO THIS.


Oh and regarding my prior post. Every medical school nowadays has someone who's sole job is to ferret out bullying and mistreatment of students. If you don't feel like you can go to the clerkship director or attending with your concerns then find out who that person is (likely someone in the student services department) and report the abuse to them.

lol s/he's kidding/trolling.

Don't use the pts chart, admit yourself as a pt and write your own chart. Document the abuse as CC: attending is being an a**hole. Feel free to prescribe yourself some xanax as well.

 

[alpinism]

If it doesn't change "within decades," it's because people took you up on your "advice." There is a line between "sucking it up because med school is hard" and "being a sheep and/or rolling over for unjustifiable behavior."

I'm fortunate in that my institution is pretty benign. I've gotten some comments which were completely out of line, but they were pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. I have seen some of my classmates get much worse treatment on occasion, but nothing like the horror stories I've heard elsewhere.

When I narrowed down my list of potential specialties, I realized that the two things they all had in common were that they allowed for life outside medicine, and that people in those specialties tended to be happier or at least more laid back. Now, my #1 criterion for residencies on my rank list is that they be comprised of people with whom I would be happy to have a beer after a hard day's work. There's my filter for hopefully avoiding at least a good amount of this sort of bull**** in medicine.

If given the choice of:
working EM (or any specialty) in a highly desired city w/ no night shifts for 300k/yr but having to deal w/ a ton sociopolitical BS plus working w/ stuck-up arrogant pricks who have no sense of humor and are only out for themselves.

or,

working EM in a rural/less-desired location w/ night shifts for 200k/yr but having an awesome no BS supportive administration/leadership plus working w/ down-to-earth, humble, funny, kind, generous, passionate co-workers.

I'll take the 2nd choice every day of the week and twice on sundays.

 

[seelee]

I had this one attending during a Cardiothoracic surgery rotation who would yell at me all the time. I tried to put myself in the surgeon's shoes and the stress involved with some of his surgeries- and a part of me said ,"this is good- I'll never forget that again." On the other hand the yelling would have the whole OR on edge and nervous about making any kind of mistake.

So where's the line when reporting verbal abuse? I've been made to feel like crap many times throughout my surgery electives (and for some reason I'm still pursuing surgery)... but never to the point where I thought, "Hey that's not nice- in fact that's abuse... I'm going to report that."

So when has anyone actually reported verbal abuse? Any examples?

As I said, my program is pretty benign.

Once on GYN, I saw one of my post-op patients and on my exam I noticed a 3/6 systolic murmur. I asked her if she was aware of it. She wasn't, and she got pretty worried. I told her that most murmurs are benign, and that post-surgical murmurs were common, but that I would check with my boss to see if he felt like it needed further attention (also she was asymptomatic).

When I went to talk with my resident he immediately asked me why I had told her about the murmur and started bitching me out, saying that "now we may have to do something" and that "this isn't cardiology". Later in clinic, I was told by 2 different residents, out of the blue, to just go in and do a physical, and to not try and "counsel the patient". Their tone and choice of words led me to suspect that the first resident had been talking **** behind my back.

I documented everything that had been said, and knowing that the clerkship director was very reasonable, I went to her with my concerns. Later, when I got a negative evaluation from this particular resident, I cited what had happened and the eval was not factored into my grade and I found out later that the resident was told to stop being such a dick.

Anyway, not sure if it counts as bullying, but it was an unpleasant encounter that resolved rather well.

 

[HakeeMD]

Student's being bullied is really unfortunate.

 

[Dr Love]

I'm sorry, but the people talking about reporting abuse and standing up for yourself as if it's an easy thing don't know what they are talking about. Having run into abuse myself, I was frankly told that as a student I had no leverage and that being right was not leverage. Students that piss off the wrong person can be subject to swift and extreme retribution, and they actually have very little protection.

Suppose an attending sees you and hates you because of your race/ethnicity/whatever. Then he writes you a terrible evaluation ("this student has poor bedside manner, was frequently late, seemed disinterested, uncomfortable with basic procedures, etc"). Suppose you even fail the clerkship. What is your recourse?

 

[deleted103644]

Most schools have "360 degree" evaluations on rotations now. You evaluate each other.

Obviously it's hard to report something bad because even with assurances it's hard to keep things confidential of something comes of it.