The craiglist killer is a med student!

[slowbutsteady]

LOL because that's exactly what I said...

what I actually said was that it's amusing that a school that uses an unconventional admissions strategy seems to have problems with admissions. I also think it's a poor policy to screen out high stat applicants because they might actually want to go there.

I think somehow BU will survive without you and your "high stats" you keep telling us about.

Oh, relieved to see you went to MIT not Harvard.

And, hey, Boston IS awesome.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[eagle34]

I think somehow BU will survive without you and your "high stats" you keep telling us about.

Oh, relieved to see you went to MIT not Harvard.

And, hey, Boston IS awesome.

Word.

 

[nlax30]

Nope - very untrue. Speculating about someone not accused of a crime's involvement in a post on the internet, with no real evidentiary basis is libel. Accusing someone of a crime or act of moral turpitude without strong proof is in fact "libel per se". (Google "Libel per se" if you don't believe me). You are probably on solid ground talking about someone actually charged with a crime, such as the med student himself, but when you try to implicate an uncharged fiancee as an accomplice, you are potentially in trouble. You never want to call someone a thief or a murderer on the internet unless you are awfully sure they are being charged with such a crime. Your first amendment right to free speech doesn't give you a right to make accusations in public at the expense of others' rights. Libel is an important limitation to free speech.

From other reports/opinions I've seen it seems like courts treat internet forums threads more akin to a "bar conversation" and thus more as slander than libel.

 

[witness23]

oh leave drizz alone.

everytime i think of a MIT chick magnet, i think of a huuuuge magnet aimed at girls with braces

 

[drizzt3117]

oh leave drizz alone.

everytime i think of a MIT chick magnet, i think of a huuuuge magnet aimed at girls with braces

 

[Law2Doc]

From other reports/opinions I've seen it seems like courts treat internet forums threads more akin to a "bar conversation" and thus more as slander than libel.

When you type something onto a bulletin board it is "published" and that puts you squarely under the libel laws.

 

[Taurus]

Markoff's sociopathic tendencies would have been difficult to detect by BU with no disciplinary or police record.

However, BU should never have allowed Daniel Mason in. He was obvious.

 

[ChairmanMao]

I can't believe we're going back and forth about this still.

You don't design your admissions process to screen out zebras, you design your admissions process to screen in the right horses.

Anyone who has any appreciation for statistical significance realizes that it is not statistically significant that BU Medical School has admitted two people in the same era who ended up murdering someone, regardless of their specific individual histories.

You can talk about the fact that the first killer had a criminal/violent history that the BU admissions committee should have seen. However, you can't associate the case of the second (most recent) killer on the same plane because he didn't have any noteworthy criminal/violent history to speak of (that I am aware of).

The two cases are very different in terms of the presence of red flags.

You know, BU's med class is 178 every year. If you assume that the Craig list killer and the other guy (the crazed former Israeli assassin) were 7 years apart, that means that means that every 1 out of 623 student at BU med school could be a cold blooded killer. Doesn't that seem a little high in relation to the general population?

I mean, if every 1 out of 623 individuals in this country was a cold blooded murder, that would mean that there are 500,000 killers in this country. I think that's higher than the number of individuals who have HIV/AIDS in this country.

 

[ChairmanMao]

"Philip Markoff, appeared to be collecting underwear as “souvenirs” from his alleged victims."...creepy, and twisted individual

"masseuse who was found dead April 14 in a Boston hotel after being bashed in the head and shot three times."...'allegedly'shooting 3 times is not an accident.

"Markoff gambled all night at the Foxwoods Casino two days after Brisman's death, leaving with $5,300 in winnings."...gambling after 'allegedly' murderering someone is downright coldblooded.


if this is all true..this "alleged" murderer is a sick sociopath

How can this guy have all this time to do this? If he's a second year student, shouldn't he be studying for the USMLE boards right now?

 

[majahops]

You've got to look the # accepted, not # matriculated.

You know, BU's med class is 178 every year. If you assume that the Craig list killer and the other guy (the crazed former Israeli assassin) were 7 years apart, that means that means that every 1 out of 623 student at BU med school could be a cold blooded killer. Doesn't that seem a little high in relation to the general population?

I mean, if every 1 out of 623 individuals in this country was a cold blooded murder, that would mean that there are 500,000 killers in this country. I think that's higher than the number of individuals who have HIV/AIDS in this country.

 

[Law2Doc]

How can this guy have all this time to do this? If he's a second year student, shouldn't he be studying for the USMLE boards right now?

You may have just come up with his defense.

 

[Law2Doc]

You've got to look the # accepted, not # matriculated.

But then you'd also have to find out how many people who they accepted and went to other schools ended up committing such crimes, which would be impossible. For example we know this guy matriculated at BU, but for all we know was accepted at multiple med schools, all of which accepted an alleged murderer. The med school you guys are applying to may have accepted him, and may accept someone similar into your own first year class -- watch your back. Food for thought.

I don't think BU did anything wrong. However I do think some of their application practices deviate from many other schools and it may contribute to the fact that they really didn't seem to get as much insight into the minds of at least two of their matriculants as other schools which have been around longer and never had similar experiences. There's perhaps something to be said for more essays and putting great weight on some of the non-numeric factors.

This also perhaps is a good lesson for schools on how much safer it is to admit nontrads, since they have more years of life to evaluate them on -- if someone is going to snap, they tend to do it in their younger days -- with the 30 year old career changer you pretty much know what you are getting. The younger applicant (as this guy was), not nearly as much.

 

[NotAndrew]

Nope - very untrue. Speculating about someone not accused of a crime's involvement in a post on the internet, with no real evidentiary basis is libel. Accusing someone of a crime or act of moral turpitude without strong proof is in fact "libel per se". (Google "Libel per se" if you don't believe me). You are probably on solid ground talking about someone actually charged with a crime, such as the med student himself, but when you try to implicate an uncharged fiancee as an accomplice, you are potentially in trouble. You never want to call someone a thief or a murderer on the internet unless you are awfully sure they are being charged with such a crime. Your first amendment right to free speech doesn't give you a right to make accusations in public at the expense of others' rights. Libel is an important limitation to free speech.

Lawyered

 

[MegaProjectile]

But then you'd also have to find out how many people who they accepted and went to other schools ended up committing such crimes, which would be impossible. For example we know this guy matriculated at BU, but for all we know was accepted at multiple med schools, all of which accepted an alleged murderer. The med school you guys are applying to may have accepted him, and may accept someone similar into your own first year class -- watch your back. Food for thought.

I don't think BU did anything wrong. However I do think some of their application practices deviate from many other schools and it may contribute to the fact that they really didn't seem to get as much insight into the minds of at least two of their matriculants as other schools which have been around longer and never had similar experiences. There's perhaps something to be said for more essays and putting great weight on some of the non-numeric factors.

This also perhaps is a good lesson for schools on how much safer it is to admit nontrads, since they have more years of life to evaluate them on -- if someone is going to snap, they tend to do it in their younger days -- with the 30 year old career changer you pretty much know what you are getting. The younger applicant (as this guy was), not nearly as much.

I agree.

 

[jult24er]

The question is, what's this guy's screenname/handle here on SDN?

good question, please someone who's donated and has the search function dig that up ...

 

[nick_carraway]

good question, please someone who's donated and has the search function dig that up ...

Doesn't everyone have the search function?

BTW, I feel gipped. When I donated back in the day, I had no idea that the privileges expired!

 

[jult24er]

Doesn't everyone have the search function?

BTW, I feel gipped. When I donated back in the day, I had no idea that the privileges expired!

yeah, i can search, but i can't use quotes or "and" or "or" etc. you know, boulean operators ...

 

[jult24er]

The med school you guys are applying to may have accepted him

Good point, the average accepted student gets into 3 schools, ive heard.

There's perhaps something to be said for more essays and putting great weight on some of the non-numeric factors.

Do you have any idea how much weight BU puts on non-numeric factors relative to other schools? Do you have any idea of this guys' numeric vs non-numeric record?

This also perhaps is a good lesson for schools on how much safer it is to admit nontrads, since they have more years of life to evaluate them on -- if someone is going to snap, they tend to do it in their younger days -- with the 30 year old career changer you pretty much know what you are getting. The younger applicant (as this guy was), not nearly as much.
I agree!

.

 

[nick_carraway]

yeah, i can search, but i can't use quotes or "and" or "or" etc. you know, boulean operators ...

Oh I didn't even know that donators got special search features. I guess that would explain my frequently crappy search results on SDN.

 

[fizzle]

doctors are just people. They have all the same characteristics of the regular population. It is just a small sample size of the us population. if their wasn't a murderer or violent criminal accepted medical school, I would start to worry. People have emotions, and sometimes they get the best of a person.

Why in the world would you worry if there WASN'T a murderer or violent criminal accepted to medical school? Do you WANT murderers and violent criminals accepted? Granted, it wouldn't be very surprising if a few murderers/violent criminals got in, but I wouldn't go so far as WORRYING that there aren't any in med school.

Adcom: "Oh no, we haven't met our quota of one murderer for our incoming class for the sake of diversity! Quick, choose one!"

 

[littlealex]

We are all actors. This process just selects for people who does well pretending to be sociable, interesting, and caring. Sure you find some people who are genuinely that way, but not everyone.

I am not surprised he had gotten in. His friends say he's a friendly guy.

 

[nick_carraway]

We are all actors. This process just selects for people who does well pretending to be sociable, interesting, and caring. Sure you find some people who are genuinely that way, but not everyone.

I am not surprised he had gotten in. His friends say he's a friendly guy.

Exactly. Everyone can fake it for a day. Nobody actually likes their fellow interviewers THAT much and yet we all chit chat like we're best pals! Y'know... just in case someone's watching.

 

[Law2Doc]

Do you have any idea how much weight BU puts on non-numeric factors relative to other schools? Do you have any idea of this guys' numeric vs non-numeric record?

Back in the day I believe this used to be the school almost everybody applied to because there were no (or optional) secondary essays, so it was simply a matter of sending in the fee. I have no idea if it's the same now. But at least at one point in its history it paid a lot less attention to the whole "why medicine?" aspects of the application and basically just relied on the bare bones AMCAS info. So yeah, if they in fact still do this and ended up selecting people who might have been screened if they asked more of them, then... you see my point.

 

[chiz2kul]

ah a support group for the accused has popped up on facebook.
I wonder what wld happen to that group when (if) he is found guilty... hmmm

 

[nick_carraway]

ah a support group for the accused has popped up on facebook.
I wonder what wld happen to that group when (if) he is found guilty... hmmm

In some countries, they'd be shot with him.

And no, I'm not suggesting anything.

 

[jult24er]

Back in the day I believe this used to be the school almost everybody applied to because there were no (or optional) secondary essays, so it was simply a matter of sending in the fee. I have no idea if it's the same now. But at least at one point in its history it paid a lot less attention to the whole "why medicine?" aspects of the application and basically just relied on the bare bones AMCAS info. So yeah, if they in fact still do this and ended up selecting people who might have been screened if they asked more of them, then... you see my point.

You're right, still all optional secondary questions. On the other hand, the "bare bones AMCAS" includes a whole essay on "why medicine?"

 

[majahops]

You're right, still all optional secondary questions. On the other hand, the "bare bones AMCAS" includes a whole essay on "why medicine?"

haha, EXACTLY!!!!!

 

[Law2Doc]

You're right, still all optional secondary questions. On the other hand, the "bare bones AMCAS" includes a whole essay on "why medicine?"

Sure, but my point was the more things you ask, the better the odds of getting an answer that rubs you the wrong way (no massage pun intended). BU didn't ask enough questions perhaps.

 

[CCLCMer]

I was just reading the news and stumbled upon this.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-craigslist-killer,0,2692140.story

http://www.albany.edu/advisement/prehealth2/listserv.html

My attending brought this case up during rounds yesterday. It figures that I'd be on psych when something like this came out in the news.

 

[cappie]

this guy is obviously a sociopath, he had a ritualized pattern of robbing these girls and he even collected their underwear... collecting things from one's victim is a tell tale sign of a sociopath... also i was just reading an article and apparently he's now on suicide watch, after they found shoelace marks around his neck

 

[nick_carraway]

this guy is obviously a sociopath, he had a ritualized pattern of robbing these girls and he even collected their underwear... collecting things from one's victim is a tell tale sign of a sociopath... also i was just reading an article and apparently he's now on suicide watch, after they found shoelace marks around his neck

Don't worry. He's innocent and the cops' lies will be found out eventually. They probably even tried to strangle Mr. Markoff themselves.

100+ days till the wedding!!!!!!

 

[Mombosuthu]

yep! persistence and dedication are some things I wrote in my personal statement that BU didn't read.

Too much of anything is not good. You've made your point and gone way past it.

 

[jult24er]

Sure, but my point was the more things you ask, the better the odds of getting an answer that rubs you the wrong way (no massage pun intended). BU didn't ask enough questions perhaps.

Doubt it. The more questions you ask, the more you end up liking the person great at saying everything you want to hear. Let's dispense with this pretense that adcoms have a magical crystal ball capable of gazing into an applicant's soul. This process should openly state some clear criteria, let the people who want it most do their best to meet it, and take a simple interview to let adcom officers screen for psychos as best they can. That would save a lot of time and effort, which could better be spent learning medicine and treating patients.

 

[cappie]

Don't worry. He's innocent and the cops' lies will be found out eventually. They probably even tried to strangle Mr. Markoff themselves.

100+ days till the wedding!!!!!!

haha...it's kinda sad how delusional she is

 

[SDN2013]

This is a done deal. Matching finger prints + ballistics

Teh Funny:

The Globe reported yesterday that officers had found underwear belonging to two victims in Markoff's Quincy apartment, as well as a semiautomatic handgun, hidden in a hollowed-out copy of Gray's Anatomy of the Human Body.

such a waste of a textbook... coulda hid it in like a MW dictionary or something

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...009/04/24/gun_match_reported_in_markoff_case/

 

[slowbutsteady]

yep! persistence and dedication are some things I wrote in my personal statement that BU didn't read.

Holy moly, dude, give it up!!! BU rejected you. Move on with our life. This is like your 8th post whining about this. (and in a thread about a murder!!!)

I know, maybe they will read this thread and say, "what were we thinking? we need this drizzt guy. Tech department: track him down! Admissions department: admit him!"

EDIT: also, "persistence and dedication," hmmm, why didn't i think of that? sounds like an original PS.

 

[ChairmanMao]

Just saw these articles on the NY Daily news. I think it's interesting how they try to portray him as some kind of sexual deviant/drunk frat boy in their coverage. Kinda reminds me of the Duke Lacrosse player scandal.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...craigslist_murder_of_julissa_brisman.html#ph0

 

[ChairmanMao]

And of course the obligatory interview with the ex-girlfriend.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...organ_houston_recalls_close_call_markoff.html

From her comments, I detect a hint of jealousy given the fact that the guy got into medical school whereas she got into podiatry school. Also, he dumped her for a much hotter looking girlfriend.

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

And of course the obligatory interview with the ex-girlfriend.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...organ_houston_recalls_close_call_markoff.html

From her comments, I detect a hint of jealousy given the fact that the guy got into medical school whereas she got into podiatry school. Also, he dumped her for a much hotter looking girlfriend.

Uh, so the gist of that story is that he liked this girl and acted like every other college guy and tried multiple ways to get in her pants (drunken stupidity, kissing her, complimenting her in a forward manner, and faking ignorance to study with her). The media really is scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to get any 'story' about this guy. Attention ****** like this chick should be ignored, but then what would the daily news print?

 

[pride4jc727]

Well, I don't feel bad having been rejected by a med school who is now linked to a murderer who happens to be a med student.

I guess their stock as a med school just took a hit (maybe just a little or a whole lot?).

 

[BTC]

I guess their stock as a med school just took a hit (maybe just a little or a whole lot?).

Did it? I am still seriously considering the school and I have other acceptances. I'm wondering if anyone else who was accepted wanted to chime in.

A med student had a psychological break. Most mental illnesses develop in the late teens / early twenties. There is no evidence to suggest this guy was previously troubled. In fact, quite to the contrary. So how would this effect my medical school experience or give any informed person (say a residency director) a lasting negative opinion of BU?

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

Did it? I am still seriously considering the school and I have other acceptances. I'm wondering if anyone else who was accepted wanted to chime in.

A med student had a psychological break. Most mental illnesses develop in the late teens / early twenties. There is no evidence to suggest this guy was previously troubled. In fact, quite to the contrary. So how would this effect my medical school experience or give any informed person (say a residency director) a lasting negative opinion of BU?

It wouldn't effect your medical school experience but it very well could affect it!

 

[BTC]

It wouldn't effect your medical school experience but it very well could affect it!

really?

Do you have trouble making friends?

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

really?

Do you have trouble making friends?

No, but then again I don't typically try to make friends with illiterate folks.

 

[eagle34]

Did it? I am still seriously considering the school and I have other acceptances. I'm wondering if anyone else who was accepted wanted to chime in.

A med student had a psychological break. Most mental illnesses develop in the late teens / early twenties. There is no evidence to suggest this guy was previously troubled. In fact, quite to the contrary. So how would this effect my medical school experience or give any informed person (say a residency director) a lasting negative opinion of BU?

I wouldn't worry about this incident affecting your medical school experience in any way...I don't see any way we have been affected yet (1st years) and I doubt we will. If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask any of us who will be there during 2nd look visit.

 

[BozoSparky]

Well, I don't feel bad having been rejected by a med school who is now linked to a murderer who happens to be a med student.

I guess their stock as a med school just took a hit (maybe just a little or a whole lot?).

the med school will be fine.

i doubt this will deter anyone from accepting a position there.

 

[nick_carraway]

Holy moly, dude, give it up!!! BU rejected you. Move on with our life. This is like your 8th post whining about this. (and in a thread about a murder!!!)

I know, maybe they will read this thread and say, "what were we thinking? we need this drizzt guy. Tech department: track him down! Admissions department: admit him!"

EDIT: also, "persistence and dedication," hmmm, why didn't i think of that? sounds like an original PS.

I'm pretty sure drizzt's last comment on the issue was a joke at your expense.

It's been 2 days since he posted on the topic, so congrats on continuing to harp on the issue.

 

[MsKrispyKreme]

A med student had a psychological break. Most mental illnesses develop in the late teens / early twenties. There is no evidence to suggest this guy was previously troubled.

True.

Hmm...based on this, do you guys think there should be an age requirement in order to matriculate into medical school? If the Craigslist Killer had followed the traditional route, his mental break would've probably occurred prior to beginning medical school. And as many mental disorders manifest in the 16-24 range, would it be in the best interest of schools to impose an age limit?

You know what's really scary? The fact that this guy would've started rotations in about 2 months or so. He would have access to potentially lethal drugs & free reign to "accidentally" murder female patients & steal their underwear -- especially if he was assigned to an extremely busy/large hospital.

 

[drizzt3117]

I'm pretty sure drizzt's last comment on the issue was a joke at your expense.

It's been 2 days since he posted on the topic, so congrats on continuing to harp on the issue.

Apparently they don't have classes in sarcasm detection at Harvard.

 

[hopslam]

Apparently they don't have classes in sarcasm detection at Harvard.

One day in the future, a sarcastic font will be invented and this issue will never occur on a forum again.