teeth63a

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Ok...I've been tracking this all morning since most of my patients cancelled!

What we know: HPSP years DO NOT count for creditable years for pay.

The question: Do HPSP years count for retirement?
Answer: Yes you get one year of HPSP good for retirement for every year in the Selected Reserves. No credit given if you are in active duty.

All information points to Title 10 of the US Code
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/usc_sup_01_10_10_A_20_III_30_105_40_I.html

Specifically subsection 2126 : Members of the program: service credit
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/usc_sec_10_00002126----000-.html

The specific Army memo with this information is attached, dated 23 September 2002, titled ""SUBJECT: Policy guidance on reserve service credit for participation in DOD health professions scholarship and financial assistance program." Note that it clearly states you need to be in the Selected Reserves.

The selected reserves is defined as (from globalsecurity.org):
The Selected Reserve [Selres] is the most readily available group of Army Reserve Soldiers. The Selected Reserve is comprised of Troop Program Units (TPUs), Active Guard and Reserve (AGR) Soldiers and Individual Mobilization Augmentees (IMAs). In the event of an emergency, all members of the Selected Reserve can be mobilized. Selected Reserve is comprised of: Reserve/Guard Units: Unit members are Guard/Reserve personnel assigned to Reserve organizations, and perform in drill periods & annual training as a minimum Individual Mobilization Augmentees (IMAs): Reserve personnel assigned to Active component organizations; perform in drill periods and annual training. Active Guard/Reserve (AGR): Reserve personnel on full-time active duty or full-time National Guard duty to provide support to the Reserve Components. All Members of the Selected Reserve are in an active status. --10 USC 10143

More info on DOD Instruction Number 1215.07
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/121507p.pdf

So what does it all mean: If you're an HPSP recipient, complete your initial active duty obligation, and then go into the regular reserves (TPU), IMA reserves, or national guard, you can get one HPSP year with 50 points good for retirement for each year in the SELRES.

Why this is useful: theoretically, one can make their 20 year retirement sooner if one can use HPSP years for retirement credit.

I said 65 points in a previous post, but I think it's 50. IRR is not considered SELRES.

If you are currently a dental student right now with HPSP, you may want to consider getting your minimum amount of retirement points (50) RIGHT NOW to give you a head start on making your 20 good years for retirement.

Yes this is confusing, and only pertinent to people who like me, left active duty to go into the reserves/guard and wish to finish 20 years in the reservevs/guard.
 

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ALTOSS

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this is nice. so you could do:

4 years of HPSP + 10 years of AD + 6 years in reserves --> retire?
 

teeth63a

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this is nice. so you could do:

4 years of HPSP + 10 years of AD + 6 years in reserves --> retire?

by my interpretation, yes. Of course, I need to verify this with someone in personnel.

The only caveat is that your pension will not be as big as someone who gets 20 straight years active duty, since HPSP and reserve years count less for retirement (130 points/year for reserves vs 365 points/year for active duty...unless as a reservist you're activated, then you get 1 point per day active).
 
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ALTOSS

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by my interpretation, yes. Of course, I need to verify this with someone in personnel.

The only caveat is that your pension will not be as big as someone who gets 20 straight years active duty, since HPSP and reserve years count less for retirement (130 points/year for reserves vs 365 points/year for active duty...unless as a reservist you're activated, then you get 1 point per day active).
yeah, i realized that. the memo says you get 50 points and (up to 200 for 4 years) for each year of HPSP. my sense is that they counted ADT as active duty (they should). the memo is dated 2000, i am not sure if this is still good.

the reserve website also says you get a few extra points for doing some online correspondence courses? i am not sure if i could take a few courses and add them to the HPSP points...
 

teeth63a

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yeah, i realized that. the memo says you get 50 points and (up to 200 for 4 years) for each year of HPSP. my sense is that they counted ADT as active duty (they should). the memo is dated 2000, i am not sure if this is still good.

the reserve website also says you get a few extra points for doing some online correspondence courses? i am not sure if i could take a few courses and add them to the HPSP points...

There's no expiration on the memo, and I couldn't find another that post dated it, so I think its still in effect. Also, subsection 2126 pretty much says the same thing and that is current US code.

Read my post in the other thread (One Army dentist's story) I have a few links to CE. www.train.army.mil is the best cause it tracks the CE straight to your HRC record. Any Ce certificates that you get from classes or correspondence outside of the army needs to be sent to your appropriate personnel in charge of points.
 

RTAQ

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Let me make sure I understand correctly. If you are on HPSP for dental school for four years and then go active duty for four years as payback, essentially you would get 50 points per yr you are in school (as you are in reserve), then you would get 365 points for each year of paypack (active duty). Then since military committment is eight years, you would then accrue 50 points per year in the IRR for four more additional years to fulfill your military committment? I am assuming a 1 year AEGD would count as 365 points because you are on active duty?
 

RTAQ

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Also, What about the 45 days of Active Duty for Training we do while in dental school. Would that count as 45 points per year?
 

teeth63a

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Let me make sure I understand correctly. If you are on HPSP for dental school for four years and then go active duty for four years as payback, essentially you would get 50 points per yr you are in school (as you are in reserve), then you would get 365 points for each year of paypack (active duty). Then since military committment is eight years, you would then accrue 50 points per year in the IRR for four more additional years to fulfill your military committment? I am assuming a 1 year AEGD would count as 365 points because you are on active duty?
I think I need to slow down here...3rd edit.

Current students can easily make the 50 points right now without having to worry about the above mentioned memo. Do the ADT and do additional CE and other correspondence courses and you can make 50 points or more. You can also drill with a unit.

The memo really only applies to the few of us who missed the boat while as dental students, NOT making the minimum 50 points.

In order to have the 4 years HPSP count for retirement, you need to do 4 years in the SELECTIVE RESERVE (TPU, IMA or guard). IRR does NOT count as SELRES.

So to use your example, you will only get 8 years for retirement. AEGD one year is like active duty one year so 365 points earned.

Another way to skin the cat: 4 years active duty, 4 years in SELRES after, then you can add on 4 years of retirement for your 4 HPSP years (12 years for retirement total).

And yet another way: 4 years active duty, 4 years IRR (making minimum points), 4 years in SELRES, then you can add the 4 years HPSP, will give you 16 years for retirement.
 
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RTAQ

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How do I receive the credit as a current student? After I finish 45 day ADT, where do I send the information?
 

krmower

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this is nice. so you could do:

4 years of HPSP + 10 years of AD + 6 years in reserves --> retire?
Also realize that Reserve retirement is given out at a specific age - not at completion of 20 yrs like active duty. It is still a good deal - gives you golfing money when you retire - but you will not see the money for a while.

However, it is a great way to receive a benefit for serving your country! I was in the Guard for 3 yrs before dental school - so I am not "dissing" it. I thinkk it is a good option.
 

ALTOSS

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Also realize that Reserve retirement is given out at a specific age - not at completion of 20 yrs like active duty. It is still a good deal - gives you golfing money when you retire - but you will not see the money for a while.

However, it is a great way to receive a benefit for serving your country! I was in the Guard for 3 yrs before dental school - so I am not "dissing" it. I thinkk it is a good option.
I just called the human resources command, and they say that you must serve 20 years to retire. When you do, then they would add that 200 points from HPSP upon retirement. I am not sure if she knew exactly what she was saying, but she seemed pretty confident and firm. Can anyone call 314-592-0000 x20592 and see if some else would say something else? I am little skeptical.
 

teeth63a

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I just called the human resources command, and they say that you must serve 20 years to retire. When you do, then they would add that 200 points from HPSP upon retirement. I am not sure if she knew exactly what she was saying, but she seemed pretty confident and firm. Can anyone call 314-592-0000 x20592 and see if some else would say something else? I am little skeptical.

She is right, and krmower is right, and it's something I neglected to mention.

If you retire out of active duty after 20 years, you will get your pension right after your last day in the military, no matter how old you are.

If, like my LTC buddy in the ARNG, you do 15 years active, then the last 5 years in the reserve/guard, you will be a "gray zone" (I think that's the term) retiree, and you cannot collect your retirement until 59.5 years old.
I think that age drops depending on how many tours you did in Iraq/Afghanistan.

So like krmower said, retiring out of the reserves or guard will give you golfing money in your retirement years (60).
 
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teeth63a

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I just called the human resources command, and they say that you must serve 20 years to retire. When you do, then they would add that 200 points from HPSP upon retirement. I am not sure if she knew exactly what she was saying, but she seemed pretty confident and firm. Can anyone call 314-592-0000 x20592 and see if some else would say something else? I am little skeptical.
I reread what you wrote. She may or may not be right about adding the 200 points on retirement...points calculation typically is done when you're near retirement, but my impression was that you can get any points added at any time, you just need to submit the paperwork.
 

ALTOSS

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I reread what you wrote. She may or may not be right about adding the 200 points on retirement...points calculation typically is done when you're near retirement, but my impression was that you can get any points added at any time, you just need to submit the paperwork.
Yes. Apparently, this Q was also listed and answered in the MODS site. So, the HPSP 50 points / year thing would only work if you finished the ADO, and remain in active reserve. HPSP years are not really good for anything, except you get 50 points per year, which is good for an annual qualified service. So my idea is (not necessarily I'd actually do this): 4 yr ADO --> active reserve for 12 years, at which time I could ask for the credits from HSPS, which would make it 20 years of active/reserve time, sufficient to collect pension once I become 60. But then again, with only 4 years of AD, the amount would be very little. Yes, it'd be a little retirement golf fund. However, my impression is that it'd be nearly impossible to stay in reserves if you own your practice for possible deployment reasons, so unless you remain in the military (in which case the HPSP credits would amount to almost nothing) or some federal services (such as VA hospitals), this feature would find of little use, if at all. But I find VA hospital a pretty good alternative to stay in govt services.
 
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teeth63a

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Yes. Apparently, this Q was also listed and answered in the MODS site. So, the HPSP 50 points / year thing would only work if you finished the ADO, and remain in active reserve. HPSP years are not really good for anything, except you get 50 points per year, which is good for an annual qualified service. So my idea is (not necessarily I'd actually do this): 4 yr ADO --> active reserve for 12 years, at which time I could ask for the credits from HSPS, which would make it 20 years of active/reserve time, sufficient to collect pension once I become 60. But then again, with only 4 years of AD, the amount would be very little. Yes, it'd be a little retirement golf fund. However, my impression is that it'd be nearly impossible to stay in reserves if you own your practice for possible deployment reasons, so unless you remain in the military (in which case the HPSP credits would amount to almost nothing) or some federal services (such as VA hospitals), this feature would find of little use, if at all. But I find VA hospital a pretty good alternative to stay in govt services.
You are absolutely factually correct until "this feature would find of little use", which would be opinion.

The way I'm looking at it is, I'll be taking the bonuses (ie $25,000/year, commissary privileges, $2500 allowances for CE courses, and a slew of other discounts) along with the possibility of deployment. I have a partner who can cover for me, or we can hire an associate. In fact only 1 of the 5 dentists in my unit is a solo practitioner. I've calculated my military retirement scenarios 10x over, and my HPSP years shortens my road to the 20 year letter. I don't expect to live off the military retirement, but it will certainly pad my income.

So in essence, it all depends on what your retirement situation is and what your tolerance for deployment is, and if the reserve/guard pay is now is worth it all.
 

ALTOSS

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You are absolutely factually correct until "this feature would find of little use", which would be opinion.

The way I'm looking at it is, I'll be taking the bonuses (ie $25,000/year, commissary privileges, $2500 allowances for CE courses, and a slew of other discounts) along with the possibility of deployment. I have a partner who can cover for me, or we can hire an associate. In fact only 1 of the 5 dentists in my unit is a solo practitioner. I've calculated my military retirement scenarios 10x over, and my HPSP years shortens my road to the 20 year letter. I don't expect to live off the military retirement, but it will certainly pad my income.

So in essence, it all depends on what your retirement situation is and what your tolerance for deployment is, and if the reserve/guard pay is now is worth it all.
Yes, exactly. From what I understand, the majority of dentists in US are solo practitioners. Heck anything is possible, but for a solo, it'd be ALMOST impossible to close your business for 4 months, unless s/he finds someone who would run the business for him/her, if that makes any sense (regardless of the army benefits). It'd be nice to run a PLC that is flexible enough to fill in for someone who's absent for months at a time, or to hire an associate during that time, but compared to the number of all dentists in the US, the number of those privileged dentists would probably be not that many. That pretty much explains why there are only so many solo practitioners in the reserves (I am a bit surprised your assessment of "1 of 5 dentists," b/c that seems rather large). Apparently, then, there are some dentists who are solo, but willing to close their business for months if they get deployed.
 

Destiny11

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So to summarize: 4yrs HPSP (4x50pt=200pts) + 4yrs AD (4x365=1460pts) + 12yrs Selective Reserve (? pts) = Qualified retirement (have to wait until age 60 to receive pay). How many pts/yr would you normally receive in the Selected Reserves and how does pts convert to $? Also, if you need at least 50 pts/yr to qualify, then how can you get that with 1 wkd/month+2wks/year in the reserves?
 
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Every 4 hour block counts as UTA(Unit Training Assembly), which equates to 1 days' pay/retirement point. You can earn up to, but no more than 2 UTAs in one day. So, each training day generally consists of 2 MUTAs (Multiple Unit Training Assemblies). So pretty much, you get paid/earn retirement points for 2 days, every day of drill/AT.

This is the typical guard model:

11 months x (one weekend a month) 2 MUTAs each = 22
+
14 days (AT) x 2 MUTAs each= 28

=50 points
 

PJDent

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So, I just got off the phone with the Air Force Personnel Center. The deal is exactly as stated above: For each "good year" you complete in the reserves, they credit you with one of your HPSP years up to 4 as long as your career field is on the "critical shortage" career field list. I separated from AD on August 8th last year and began drilling in September. Today I contacted AFPC to query them as to when I should expect to receive my HPSP year. They said they had determined my retirement and retention (R/R) year began and ended in May so I did not have enough reserve points for a good year, only 48. Thus, I would not receive the HPSP year. Even though they cut the year off in May and credited me 73 days for the AD time (June, July and August) to bring it to 121 points giving me a "good" year for retirement purposes. They said I needed a good year with reserve points alone to receive the HPSP time credited. So, you DO get a year back for each year you complete in the reserves. Unless they arbitrarily assign your R/R dates in a way in which it makes it impossible for you to complete a good year for your initial term. Also, I did not realize that you had to be on a critical wartime shortage list. I don't remember reading about that anywhere in the above information. But that's what they told me. The Air Force will end up getting me for one more year because of a technicality.
 

ajaxkid

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This is great news. Does anyone know if you have to complete 20 yrs before they add the HPSP time? For example, I had 7 yrs active duty before I went to dental school (under HPSP). After my ADSO I will be at 12 yrs active duty. At that point if I did 4 yrs in selected reserve could I apply for reserve retirement and count the 4 HPSP yrs towards retirement to make 20? Or do I have to do 4 yrs selected service then 4 more years in reserves to make 20 and then they add the HPSP to make 24 yrs? I know that probably sounds confusing but I'm hoping some of you might understand what I'm asking.
 

Hedgy

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Yes, exactly. From what I understand, the majority of dentists in US are solo practitioners. Heck anything is possible, but for a solo, it'd be ALMOST impossible to close your business for 4 months, unless s/he finds someone who would run the business for him/her, if that makes any sense (regardless of the army benefits). It'd be nice to run a PLC that is flexible enough to fill in for someone who's absent for months at a time, or to hire an associate during that time, but compared to the number of all dentists in the US, the number of those privileged dentists would probably be not that many. That pretty much explains why there are only so many solo practitioners in the reserves (I am a bit surprised your assessment of "1 of 5 dentists," b/c that seems rather large). Apparently, then, there are some dentists who are solo, but willing to close their business for months if they get deployed.
I don't think anyone would join the reserves or guard without having a contingency plan if they were to be deployed. I assume most either have a group of dentists that would be willing to work at their office for a day/week or they have a locum tenans lined up. We had a group of 8 of us that kept an office open for 6 months after the doc had a stroke. We all worked 1 day/week, gratis, and we did this one day every 2-3 weeks. We also have a locum that will come and work 2-3 days/week at 30% production. That may be enough to keep a practice afloat. What I noticed is patients will wait for about 6 months, then they start getting nervous after that. This guy sold at 8 months to one of the docs who helped and was an associate for another dentist. I'm not sure if the multi dentist model will hold up much longer as it seems dentists are much more selfish with their time, but I would hope the locum tenens would work.
 

PJDent

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This is great news. Does anyone know if you have to complete 20 yrs before they add the HPSP time? For example, I had 7 yrs active duty before I went to dental school (under HPSP). After my ADSO I will be at 12 yrs active duty. At that point if I did 4 yrs in selected reserve could I apply for reserve retirement and count the 4 HPSP yrs towards retirement to make 20? Or do I have to do 4 yrs selected service then 4 more years in reserves to make 20 and then they add the HPSP to make 24 yrs? I know that probably sounds confusing but I'm hoping some of you might understand what I'm asking.
I know exactly what you're asking and the answer is you get the credit (1 year from HPSP/dental school) for each year you complete in the reserves when they calculate the R/R points each year. So, I've got 9 years AD enlisted, did 2 years guard, did the 4 year HPSP, then did 4 years AD. So, before starting the reserves I had 15 years toward retirement. They did not count my first year as a "good" year so I now have 16 years toward retirement. Now, for each "good" year in the reserves that I complete, I will get an HPSP year added on when they calculate each "good" year. After this year is complete, I'll get my year for being a reservist and I'll get the HPSP year credited. Then, the following year I'll complete my reserve year and I'll get the HPSP year credited. At that point I will have the option to retire if I choose. Or I can complete 2 more years in the reserves and get 2 more years credited.
 

Jebsv

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Great information!. I was wondering if it made a difference which branch of service you were in. I was active-duty Army and was on an army HPSP scholarship. I am presently in a air National Guard Air Force unit. Do you happen to know which forms or DD form is required for the Air Force to grant the credits.?
 
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I think I know the answer but I want to see if my train of thought is correct. I had a 4 year HPSP scholarship and will have 12 years of active duty service before I can get out. If I go reserves after 12 years of AD I can complete 4 "good" years of reserves and retire since those 4 HPSP years will also count towards retirement?
 
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