The FAQ

[Cheecheroo]

Long time lurker with a quick question. When I first started checking this forum out in '03 the posts that make up the FAQ were very helpful and encouraging to me as a first year: Don't obsess over numbers, be a good/passionate/hardworking & effective member of the EM team on clerkships, and don't be a tool-- sounded in many ways like the recipe for success (ok, maybe not the best summary of the FAQ , but you see what I'm saying)

Lately (past year or so) it seems like numbers have become a bigger part of the equation. I also got a similar impression from 2 PD's in my local socal area.

Is the FAQ still accurate on this issue 3 yrs ex post facto or have things changed? Or is this just my building neurosis as an MS 3.5 lacking the magic 215 cutoff (or whatever arbitrary paper credentials)?

Just starting to wonder if there is still love out there for those of us who were EM right out of the womb (EMS experience, tons of volunteer work) lack the paper pimp factor, but tend to do really well on rotations...

Let me also offer the pre-emptive " , fatty mcfatterton the mayor of fatville, INnOUT roxors, and buttsweat" (last one's obviously new, but I think it has potential...)

Thanks for any help/advice/encouragement you can offer.

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[Seaglass]

The FAQ is a little long in the tooth; it would be nice if people who matched last year or if current fourth years would add updates after the match this year.

 

[Cheecheroo]

The FAQ is a little long in the tooth; it would be nice if people who matched last year or if current fourth years would add updates after the match this year.

Seaglass,

Thanks for the reply. As a major contributer to the original and a current resident whats your take? Have things gotten that much more competitive in the last three years?

I was just re-reading the journal article on "selection criteria for EM residents" published in 2000 and saw the data reported for minimum step 1. Just by browsing the board today it seems like there could have been some changes. Sure, thats probably the best example of using a misrepresentative cross section, but checking back in with the forum is starting to scare me a bit...

 

[TysonCook]

Hello,
I'm a current fourth year who is in the middle of the interview trail (actually I'll be interviewing at Seaglasses program in about 10 days) and I will say that the numbers have changed from the FAQ.

After my interviews are done I'll post up a list of what I found to be accurate FOR ME on the trail.

As for being a MS 3.5, worry about your clinical grades right now, getting Honors is important (no matter how many people state P=MD). Also, start to figure out who is going to write your LORS/where you are going to rotate/aways/and Step II (early if think you need to improve).

 

[Seaglass]

That's interesting that you all think things have changed so much. From my perspective they seem about the same. I remember when I was applying we all thought that things were so much more competitive but it's after the match that you see that most people matched where they wanted etc. Remember that SDN tends to be skewed towards the more competitive applicants (at least as far as those who post) so don't freak out too much about the numbers that you see here.

 

[rxfudd]

Evaluating this type of thing is really a collaborative effort, since most people only tend know how they themselves were perceived by a program on interview days. I recognize that I tend to be on the more competitive side of applicants, but I would say that the most feedback I've gotten on this from interviewers has been limited to "So you have good board scores, good clinical grades, you seemed to work hard on rotations...", and then on to the rest of the interview. No one really makes a huge deal out of it other than in passing. Everyone has been MUCH more interested in my extracurriculars than my grades and scores. I'd say that the biggest thing that numbers can do for you is to get you an early interview.

At the end of the day, I'd still say that the way you are perceived by programs (and, as a result of this, a larger part of your ranking) has much more to do with what you are like and your personality rather than your step scores and number of clinical honors. I think that the FAQ is still very relevant.

 

[EctopicFetus]

At the end of the day, I'd still say that the way you are perceived by programs (and, as a result of this, a larger part of your ranking) has much more to do with what you are like and your personality rather than your step scores and number of clinical honors. I think that the FAQ is still very relevant.

Let me say that at one of my interviews the asst PD told me the total # of applicants and total US applicants changed less than 1% from the yr before. Now it is hard to tell what the other applicants were like score and grade wise.

I would say that I am a barely above avg candidate on paper, but I got interviews at some of the most competitive programs in the US (and I had to apply broadly due to a family situation) I got offered an interview at USC, UCLA-Harbor, Denver gen, Indiana, BIDMC, Wake, Carolinas etc.

Some notables who gave me the boot, Highland, Duke, Vandy, Emory and Cincy.

Frankly you will be fine. I really really dont think it is *that* much more competitive. Seriously, every field in medicine is getting *more* competitive. This simply cant be the case. Dont freak you will be fine. There are like 1300 spots.

 

[Cheecheroo]

T

 

[Cheecheroo]

Thanks so much for all the replies guys. For sho some of my anxiety is the whole fact that I'm six months away from starting the appliation process. 75% of the time I feel ok, but every now and again I check the board and freak out a bit. Its good to remember the board leans to the more competitive applicant...

 

[EctopicFetus]

This board def leans to the very competitive applicant which I am not.. Seriously dont worry.. things will work out. I believe 85-90% of applicants match in their top 3.

 

[J.J.]

Does anyone know the range of competitive board scores for both COMLEX and USMLE?

I've asked this question of every program director I've contacted so far and the response never fails, "passing!"

I realize it's not a' magic number, but I know they have an idea of what is acceptable and what is not. Hell, I would accept the average score of their current interns. Any input is appreciated.

JJ

 

[Seaglass]

A competitive USMLE score would probably be around 230. Don't know anything about COMLEX. The only USMLE score that would get you thrown out of the pile would be a failing one.

 

[TysonCook]

Sorry about the confusion about the FAQ not being up to date... I was thinking more along the lines as far as when to take the USMLE II (several PD's told me that it was great that I had scores in by interviews, and they were leaning toward pushing it next year), as well as step II CS passing before programs will rank you (as per BKN).

Overall the FAQ is very on the point. Also, just FYI as per the PD here at Cincy, when asked what their avarage step I score was for those that they ranked highly and matched last year, it was 235. So I would imagine that this is the super-high end, while passing and being average or above would be acceptable. DON'T FOCUS ON THE OVERALL #'S, PD's focused much more on my extracirriculars than my step I/II scores (227/229).

As a MS 3.5, just get honors, work on scheduling your USMLE II early (both CS and CK if you want to improve), and get an advisor early. I swear to God that the biggest pain in my A$$ was getting those stuping LOR's in on time.

Just my .02

Some of the other posters such as Seaglass have much more experience in this, I'm just stating what I've heard on the trail this year

 

[SoCuteMD]

Let me say that at one of my interviews the asst PD told me the total # of applicants and total US applicants changed less than 1% from the yr before. Now it is hard to tell what the other applicants were like score and grade wise.

I would say that I am a barely above avg candidate on paper, but I got interviews at some of the most competitive programs in the US (and I had to apply broadly due to a family situation) I got offered an interview at USC, UCLA-Harbor, Denver gen, Indiana, BIDMC, Wake, Carolinas etc.

Some notables who gave me the boot, Highland, Duke, Vandy, Emory and Cincy.

Frankly you will be fine. I really really dont think it is *that* much more competitive. Seriously, every field in medicine is getting *more* competitive. This simply cant be the case. Dont freak you will be fine. There are like 1300 spots.

Yay for Wake and Carolinas. If someone asked me tomorrow where I want to go for residency, these two would top the list along with UNC. I know CMC is especially well-known for it's EM program. And W-S is the only "major" city in NC in which I have not lived and have the desire to do so!!!


As for Dook, I'm glad you didn't let them get you down EF. Being an MS1, I don't know a whole lot, but it seems as if their EM program isn't all that compared to their other programs. (Disclaimer: NOT trying to start a flame war here...that's just what I've heard from some sources I consider reliable.)

Thanks for the reassuring words, EF, even if they weren't directed specifically at me . Just what I needed to hear!

 

[EctopicFetus]

Yeah I think Duke is more number oriented than some of the others. Hence the bootage I recieved. No real loss I got to interview with my #1 and things went will IMO. Will have to wait until match day.

Oh and for you socute I also got an interview from ECU and rejected from Dr Tintinalli and UNC.

CMC has some amazing faculty including Dr Marx who is the current editor of the Rosens book.

 

[Apollyon]

As for Dook, I'm glad you didn't let them get you down EF. Being an MS1, I don't know a whole lot, but it seems as if their EM program isn't all that compared to their other programs. (Disclaimer: NOT trying to start a flame war here...that's just what I've heard from some sources I consider reliable.)

If you MF someone or a program, putting a "disclaimer" on it doesn't give you a free pass.

In a nutshell, make up your own mind. It's unlikely that the sources you have are really on the pulse versus casually repeating what they've heard.

 

[EctopicFetus]

apollyon, I think she was just trying to cheer me up since they didnt even want to interview me..

as an aside corpsmanUP wrote some less than flattering things about the program in his blog..

Lucky for me the way things worked out this wasnt an option for me anyhow.

 

[docB]

I agree with the OP that the FAQ could use some updating. I'd like to include something about how infrequent posters can get better info by asking specific questions. It's probably OK to ask "What do people think of program X overall." but questions such as "What's EM like?" are too broad to be effectively answered in a readable post.

We could also use FAQs on:
Trauma surg vs. EM
Burnout
Can I work the ER and have an office practice?
Compenstaion

One thing I know about EM is that when you go to someone and say "We should do this." the answer is always "Great idea! Let me know when you're done." so by suggesting these I'm happy to do a few of them but we should all pitch in some.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I agree with the OP that the FAQ could use some updating. I'd like to include something about how infrequent posters can get better info by asking specific questions. It's probably OK to ask "What do people think of program X overall." but questions such as "What's EM like?" are too broad to be effectively answered in a readable post.

We could also use FAQs on:
Trauma surg vs. EM
Burnout
Can I work the ER and have an office practice?
Compenstaion

One thing I know about EM is that when you go to someone and say "We should do this." the answer is always "Great idea! Let me know when you're done." so by suggesting these I'm happy to do a few of them but we should all pitch in some.

ditto!

 

[Apollyon]

I agree with the OP that the FAQ could use some updating. I'd like to include something about how infrequent posters can get better info by asking specific questions. It's probably OK to ask "What do people think of program X overall." but questions such as "What's EM like?" are too broad to be effectively answered in a readable post.

We could also use FAQs on:
Trauma surg vs. EM
Burnout
Can I work the ER and have an office practice?
Compenstaion

One thing I know about EM is that when you go to someone and say "We should do this." the answer is always "Great idea! Let me know when you're done." so by suggesting these I'm happy to do a few of them but we should all pitch in some.

Great idea! Let me know when you're done!

 

[NinerNiner999]

Fatty McFattypants.