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[Cesar Augustus]

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I don't think dartmouth is what you should be looking at. the purpose of it is not to push toward med school but a totally separate career altogether.

That strikes me as odd, because it's listed both in the SMP thread (category 2 in the '09 one) and as a GPA-enhancing SMP on the AAMC website. It's a one-year program if done full-time, and I'm honestly fascinated with the idea of going into public health/infrastructure management so actually getting a degree (especially an MPH) would be a major plus for me.

 

[jslo85]

That strikes me as odd, because it's listed both in the SMP thread (category 2 in the '09 one) and as a GPA-enhancing SMP on the AAMC website. It's a one-year program if done full-time, and I'm honestly fascinated with the idea of going into public health/infrastructure management so actually getting a degree (especially an MPH) would be a major plus for me.

It may strike you as odd but that's the advice you're asking from us.

Another point I'll make is in the link that takes you to the stickied SMP program list, the only Dartmouth program listed under "Category 2" by Dr. Midlife is the Masters of Science program and not the MPH. Though taking a closer look at the curriculum I would recommend neither for your situation but as always, you can take it or leave it.

If what you really like is Public Health then more power to you. I think it's a highly useful education/degree to have as a physician or if you seek a career in public health or health care leadership but if you're wondering if it'll help your particular situation to get into medical school as opposed to other programs, then no, it really won't. The consensus that you will most likely get if you ask health professionals (physicians etc) of getting an MPH will be to do so between your 2nd and 3rd year before you start rotations. It's a useful thing to have on your way to becoming a physician while in medical school but not a very useful thing to have trying to get into medical school when your GPA/academic background is the problem. What you need to demonstrate is competence in the hard sciences which you won't be getting out of the MPH program.

http://tdi.dartmouth.edu/centers/education/degrees/mph/course-listings/

Granted I'm skimming the curriculum offered but I count only 1 class that qualifies as graduate science, that being Epidemiology and Biostatistics (one class title) which you apparently take in Early and Late Fall. Take a look at some of the notable "SMP" courses where 5-7 medical school courses are being offered. If you had a competitive application already in MCAT and GPA and you had shadowing/volunteering and the whole 9 years except a few more E.Cs, then yeah obtaining an MPH is great and something that will undoubtedly be a conversation topic during interviews but tbh, I don't think you have that type of application.

Again these are my thoughts, people might/probably will disagree but Klmnop is definitely on the right track of what he advised you. If you want to rely on AAMC then go ahead, it sounds like you have your decision already in mind.

Good luck

 

[gujuDoc]

If you really want an MPH why don't you just do the BU or Tufts SMPs and spend another year doing the MPH while applying to med school? That's what a lot of my classmates are doing!!!

 

[jslo85]

+1 on what Guju said. Another option is doing the UMDNJ MBS with the MPH option

 

[DrMidlife]

That strikes me as odd, because it's listed both in the SMP thread (category 2 in the '09 one) and as a GPA-enhancing SMP on the AAMC website. It's a one-year program if done full-time, and I'm honestly fascinated with the idea of going into public health/infrastructure management so actually getting a degree (especially an MPH) would be a major plus for me.

The AAMC list of postbacs is not complete, nor consistent, nor reviewed. I view it as a good place to start. I did my list because so many programs were missing or miscategorized on the AAMC list. I see no evidence that AAMC collects any info on what happens to graduates of programs on its list...on SDN we get that info.

If you have average stats and you're looking to buff your app, then you have a lot more programs to choose from than when you have poor stats and you're looking for somebody to give you a chance.

You earn that chance by getting great grades in really hard science classes, like biochem and physio. Upper div undergrad coursework in these subjects can help you come back from a low GPA. Taking the same biochem & physio (& cell bio & histo & neuro etc) that first year med students take, as you do in a real SMP, can help you a lot. By contrast, taking epidemiology, biostats, etc. in an MPH says you really like medicine...but it doesn't say anything about your ability to swallow hard science coming at you from a firehose for 2 years straight.

If you hedge your bets now, and go looking for programs that will give you career options if you don't get into med school, then to me that says you don't really want to go to med school. From a GPA comeback, to get into med school, you have to go nuts. Hellbent for leather. When the executive admissions committee gets to your app, you have to be sufficiently compelling that they'll throw out a candidate with better stats to keep you.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Cesar Augustus]

Again these are my thoughts, people might/probably will disagree but Klmnop is definitely on the right track of what he advised you. If you want to rely on AAMC then go ahead, it sounds like you have your decision already in mind.

Good luck

I really don't have a decision in mind, which is precisely why I asked. It's a big commitment, both timewise and financially and I want to be sure that I'm putting forth the best possible game plan for the next few years. That includes aiming for programs that could best fit my eventual goals. If TDI isn't it then I'm honestly glad to find out now. I appreciate the advice.

 

[klmnop]

If you want to rely on AAMC then go ahead, it sounds like you have your decision already in mind.

👍
exploring the amcas post-bacc site was really useless. the info was outdated, wrong, and incomplete. dr.midlifes list is the most comprehensive and combine that with the other stickies this is really the only place on the web were all the tools exist to make your decision. bonne chance!

 

[deleted248403]

I really don't have a decision in mind, which is precisely why I asked. It's a big commitment, both timewise and financially and I want to be sure that I'm putting forth the best possible game plan for the next few years. That includes aiming for programs that could best fit my eventual goals. If TDI isn't it then I'm honestly glad to find out now. I appreciate the advice.

With a 3.2 cGPA and a sub-3.0 sGPA - an MPH would be a neat EC, not help your medical school app at all, and you'd still not get in anywhere allopathic. Even if you got a 39+ on the MCAT, only 41% of applicants get accepted with a sub 3.2 cGPA.

Do an SMP, you drastically need to prove you can do upper level sciences

 

[nali1]

Would a MS in Exercise Physiology that has hard sciences in the curriculum improve the chances of getting into an osteopathic school or at least and a top SMP? Or is a traditional SMP and/or post-bacc the way to go?

 

[deleted248403]

Depends on your stats but I am guessing not. Exercise Physiology is in the same boat as an MPH for me - a nice EC if you have the appropriate stats as is but if you are subpar; its not going to help

 

[nali1]

Depends on your stats but I am guessing not. Exercise Physiology is in the same boat as an MPH for me - a nice EC if you have the appropriate stats as is but if you are subpar; its not going to help

The reason I asked is because my school offers a BS/MS combined program in Exercise Physiology and it allows you to choose 12 credits that will count toward your undergraduate AND graduate GPA. Obviously I would pick the hard sciences to count towards both. Do you think it would help anymore in this scenario.. Given I do well in these sciences?

 

[jslo85]

It's really hard to say.

If your GPA is in the gutter then I would instinctively move towards an SMP. If you're set on osteopathic school then my own rule of thumb is to go to the SMP of the school you are interested in because osteopathic SMPs are usually small class size and very high linkage.

They're also relatively inexpensive (some of them) and allow you to take DO courses and build relationships with your professors who also teach your OMS1 class if you matriculate. Some programs will even let you transfer credit if you choose to stay at their school.

The reason I'm hesitant on endorsing your current suggested plan is in general, the courses that are offered are of a less competitive/clinical emphasis/medical school related as the courses you will find in an SMP. Also if your goal is to attend that very school, they will give substantial preference to you, having taken their own OMS1 courses and successfully completing them as opposed to graduate/undergraduate courses at a separate institution (non-professional school I'm guessing).

 

[deleted248403]

The reason I asked is because my school offers a BS/MS combined program in Exercise Physiology and it allows you to choose 12 credits that will count toward your undergraduate AND graduate GPA. Obviously I would pick the hard sciences to count towards both. Do you think it would help anymore in this scenario.. Given I do well in these sciences?

Again are you close to the med school averages? If not, then no don't go there IMO

 

[RetailBoy]

Hey fellas,

I've been on these forums reading off and on for the past year and a half but finally I need some specific guidance. I REALLY am disappointed in myself for letting my GPA look like this because I know I can do better and I know how. 🙁


I'm about to graduate with my undergrad degree BS Biology.
cGPA: 2.7
Science GPA: 2.8
I've taken 125 credits

Some science/med related classes and grades:
General Bio: Bx2
Genetics: C
Organic 1&2: B (lab:A)
Chem 1&2: B, C
Ecology: B
Cell Bio: B
Micro Bio: A-
Evolution: B
A&P: Cx2
Physics: B, C
Human Kinesiology: B-
Ethnobotany: C
Advanced Cadaver: C
Advanced Physiology: A

I have money, I have time (I'm only 23), and I can move anywhere.

I've taken a full timed MCAT practice test online and scored 30 after studying off and on for two months.

My goal is to get into medical school (I want the Caribbean to be a VERY last option, not even on the table TBH). I was planning on studying for 4-5 months HARD for MCAT and applying to an SMP but from what I've read on here that is out of my reach no matter how good my final MCAT is. I know I don't have many options :cry:– but can someone let me know what route I need to go: post bac? MCAT then SMP? Go back retake undergrad classes?

I'll be checking back daily to give a quick response.


Thanks for everyones help.

 

[jslo85]

Hey fellas,

I’ve been on these forums reading off and on for the past year and a half but finally I need some specific guidance. I REALLY am disappointed in myself for letting my GPA look like this because I know I can do better and I know how. 🙁


I’m about to graduate with my undergrad degree BS Biology.
cGPA: 2.7
Science GPA: 2.8
I’ve taken 125 credits

Some science/med related classes and grades:
General Bio: Bx2
Genetics: C
Organic 1&2: B (lab:A)
Chem 1&2: B, C
Physics:
Ecology: B
Cell Bio: B
Micro Bio: A-
Evolution: B
A&P: Cx2
Physics: B, C
Human Kinesiology: B-
Ethnobotany: C
Advanced Cadaver: C
Advanced Physiology: A

I have money, I have time (I’m only 23), and I can move anywhere.

I’ve taken a full timed MCAT practice test online and scored 30 after studying off and on for two months.

My goal is to get into medical school (I want the Caribbean to be a VERY last option, not even on the table TBH). I was planning on studying for 4-5 months HARD for MCAT and applying to an SMP but from what I’ve read on here that is out of my reach no matter how good my final MCAT is. I know I don’t have many options :cry:– but can someone let me know what route I need to go: post bac? MCAT then SMP? Go back retake undergrad classes?

I'll be checking back daily to give a quick response.


Thanks for everyones help.

Hi and welcome to SDN.

Bolded and included answers to most of the normal questions that I would usually have to ask a 1st time WAMC/where should I go apply to post. Thank you and good job.

You're going to have a make a decision which route you're going to go, osteopathic or allopathic. Because that will determine which plan/how much time you will need to invest in this.

Before you do anything else in the predicted timeline of things, you need to take the MCAT. 30 on the practice MCAT is a start, aim higher and take more tests. Generally a good gauge of what score you're going to receive is 2-3 points lower than the highest practice test.

You've got alot of units and alot of poor grades in them, you know that. If you went osteopathic you would save yourself probably a great deal of time by taking a year to retake most of the classes you did poorly in. Fortunately those don't happen to be your pre-reqs. The predicted plan would be for you to break a 3.0 with your retakes and aim for an osteopathic MBS program at a school you're interested in and taking advantage of the strong linkage available. The other option in the osteopathic route is to retake most of those classes to get as high of a GPA above 3.0 as you can and with a strong MCAT, apply early/broadly in hoping for a few looks from schools for an interview.

I'll come back and post here after I think of something on the allopathic route. You've taken too many upper division classes for me to confidently tell you to take upper div sciences in hopes of raising your GPA and establishing an upward trend. You also have a plethora of units and retakes won't help on the AMCAS since they only average. But yeah I'll think about it. Your GPA is quite low for SMPs but hopefully with a good MCAT score you might have a shot next cycle if you apply early and broadly.

Focus primarily on the MCAT for now and keep certain things in mind. Your options will become alot clearer afer you have your score. Listen to what alot of the other people in here have to say as well, they have alot of experience in advising people in your situation .

 

[RetailBoy]

Hi and welcome to SDN.

Bolded and included answers to most of the normal questions that I would usually have to ask a 1st time WAMC/where should I go apply to post. Thank you and good job.

You're going to have a make a decision which route you're going to go, osteopathic or allopathic. Because that will determine which plan/how much time you will need to invest in this.

Before you do anything else in the predicted timeline of things, you need to take the MCAT. 30 on the practice MCAT is a start, aim higher and take more tests. Generally a good gauge of what score you're going to receive is 2-3 points lower than the highest practice test.

You've got alot of units and alot of poor grades in them, you know that. If you went osteopathic you would save yourself probably a great deal of time by taking a year to retake most of the classes you did poorly in. Fortunately those don't happen to be your pre-reqs. The predicted plan would be for you to break a 3.0 with your retakes and aim for an osteopathic MBS program at a school you're interested in and taking advantage of the strong linkage available. The other option in the osteopathic route is to retake most of those classes to get as high of a GPA above 3.0 as you can and with a strong MCAT, apply early/broadly in hoping for a few looks from schools for an interview.

I'll come back and post here after I think of something on the allopathic route. You've taken too many upper division classes for me to confidently tell you to take upper div sciences in hopes of raising your GPA and establishing an upward trend. You also have a plethora of units and retakes won't help on the AMCAS since they only average. But yeah I'll think about it. Your GPA is quite low for SMPs but hopefully with a good MCAT score you might have a shot next cycle if you apply early and broadly.

Focus primarily on the MCAT for now and keep certain things in mind. Your options will become alot clearer afer you have your score. Listen to what alot of the other people in here have to say as well, they have alot of experience in advising people in your situation .

Thank you for the prompt response Jslo! And for the welcome!

I have non-traditional ambitions as a Doctor – it's a very long story but a lot of what I see with medicine (diagnostics, black boxing, too much medicine, not enough alternative methods, progressive like many overseas medical journals, diet focused, fear of testosterone, etc.) I don't like. As a result, my goal right now is to be part of a form of a concierge practice – I'm into male internal medicine and andrology (two things the US needs more of).

I think these goals I'm extremely passionate about (I'm ready to dedicate my life to it) would be best obtained through the allopathic route. I could be wrong – I would be willing to go to a DO school if it is my only options for US school.

From looking back in the forum I saw DrMidLife say:

"If you want to go to a med school in the US, then you need to get your cumulative undergrad GPA up over 3.0 (this will take multiple years, so think 2nd bachelors). Plus you need to kill the MCAT. Plus you then will undoubtedly need an SMP."

"Traditional graduate work does nothing to help a low undergrad GPA. Grad work isn't standardized and it doesn't make up for low undergrad numbers."

So masters is totally out of the question

I just calculated my grades and it seems I could retake two undergrad sciences (non-medschool required) and get a 2.92 science GPA if I get an A (I got D's in them, my college won't allow me to retake any class that we obtained a C or better in and still get ‘grade forgivesness'– so I can only do 2 in science classes).

So it seems like MCAT is what I need to study and get really high score and apply to SMP. If I don't get in retake 2 classes and get an A to obtain a 2.92 science GPA. Then apply SMP's and Do's. I could also retake non-science classes (3 of them) that will allow me to obtain around 3.1-3.2~ cumulative – will that be worth it though?

 

[jslo85]

As a result, my goal right now is to be part of a form of a concierge practice – I’m into male internal medicine and andrology (two things the US needs more of).

....

So masters is totally out of the question

I just calculated my grades and it seems I could retake two undergrad sciences (non-medschool required) and get a 2.92 science GPA if I get an A (I got D's in them, my college won’t allow me to retake any class that we obtained a C or better in and still get ‘grade forgivesness’– so I can only do 2 in science classes).

So it seems like MCAT is what I need to study and get really high score and apply to SMP. If I don’t get in retake 2 classes and get an A to obtain a 2.92 science GPA. Then apply SMP’s and Do’s. I could also retake non-science classes (3 of them) that will allow me to obtain around 3.1-3.2~ cumulative – will that be worth it though?

If your goal is internal medicine then tbh, a DO or an MD won't make any difference imo. There are a few specialties and programs that I will admit that DOs have not yet broken the barrier into, but for all primary care specialties and at this point EM as well, DOs have no problem whatsoever entering.

The reason I brought that up is you began calculating it yourself. You need retakes to quickly boost your GPA to near a 3.0 or higher and if you apply through the allopathic primary application, AMCAS, they won't allow retakes. Only AACOMAS, the osteopathic primary, will allow retaken coursework to count as the final. A 3.1-3.2 won't do you any favors for many allopathic SMPs but it's worth a shot with a strong MCAT and for osteopathic SMPs, a 3.0-3.1 and a 30 MCAT will probably gain you acceptance into most if you apply early enough.

I think an SMP is the right way to go for you but it's up to you which route you want to take. If osteopathic I strongl suggest you to consider the SMP that is offered at the DO school you're interested in. If allopathic, you need to consider which type of SMP you want to enter, the reputable yet large kind like Gtown or BU MAMS or the smaller but high linkage type like EVMS or UCinn.

 

[yadave]

If your goal is internal medicine then tbh, a DO or an MD won't make any difference imo. There are a few specialties and programs that I will admit that DOs have not yet broken the barrier into, but for all primary care specialties and at this point EM as well, DOs have no problem whatsoever entering.

The reason I brought that up is you began calculating it yourself. You need retakes to quickly boost your GPA to near a 3.0 or higher and if you apply through the allopathic primary application, AMCAS, they won't allow retakes. Only AACOMAS, the osteopathic primary, will allow retaken coursework to count as the final. A 3.1-3.2 won't do you any favors for many allopathic SMPs but it's worth a shot with a strong MCAT and for osteopathic SMPs, a 3.0-3.1 and a 30 MCAT will probably gain you acceptance into most if you apply early enough.

I think an SMP is the right way to go for you but it's up to you which route you want to take. If osteopathic I strongl suggest you to consider the SMP that is offered at the DO school you're interested in. If allopathic, you need to consider which type of SMP you want to enter, the reputable yet large kind like Gtown or BU MAMS or the smaller but high linkage type like EVMS or UCinn.

I thought that for allo smp if you do retake, they just average your scores?? I have gotten advice on this forum from people telling me that if I am running out of upper levels to take I should retake some of the bcmp courses. Therefore, I am signed up to redo the physics sequence because of that. I mean I didnt realize that they will just not count your new grades? I am confused now. can anyone clarify?? thanks

 

[deleted248403]

yadave - SMP is graduate so unless you are repeating graduate level classes than you are confusing undergrad/post bac and an SMP

 

[yadave]

yadave - SMP is graduate so unless you are repeating graduate level classes than you are confusing undergrad/post bac and an SMP

No Im sorry let me clarify further as to what I was referring to:

I am currently working to fix my undergraduate gpa. However, I am running out of upper level courses to take. Therefore, I was told on this forum that I can retake classes too and for the allo SMPs, AMCAS will average my two grades (the original and regrade). Therefore, I have signed up to retake the physics classes I bombed like five years ago. So I was wondering, they are still going to average my two grades, correct?

 

[jslo85]

I thought that for allo smp if you do retake, they just average your scores?? I have gotten advice on this forum from people telling me that if I am running out of upper levels to take I should retake some of the bcmp courses. Therefore, I am signed up to redo the physics sequence because of that. I mean I didnt realize that they will just not count your new grades? I am confused now. can anyone clarify?? thanks

Rob is correct and I'm a bit confused by what you're saying as well.

Are you saying that if you enter an SMP program, you would be retaking those graduate medical school courses because you've already done them somewhere else?

If you are running out of upper division science courses for UG and you are applying for allopathic schools, I don't know who you've been hearing advice from on these boards but at that point I would be looking to SMPs as the next step.

Look at it this way, it's not that if you achieve a certain minimum competitive GPA by taking 1005229 retakes of your poor grades that medical school Adcoms will go accept you. When they look at your classes, they'll see that you've transitioned from the pre-req medical school courses to upper division and then back to pre-reqs. Say you turn a C from before into an A. What are they supposed to think? From an Adcoms point of view and I have spoken to several admissions reps from medical schools on this, you were supposed to get that A the first time in the basic sciences. If you retake any pre-req science class, it just means that you retook a class where you already learned the material and that hardly says much about your academic competence for medical school.

That is why SMPs are regarded for people in your situation. They provide an even harder class that is identical or very representative of what you will be required to take if you're an MS1 and allow them to see how you would perform on that level. If you have keep retaking classes to get to say a 3.1 when you were a 3.0 before by making the newly obtained As/Bs to replace your previous Cs, in their mind, you're probably still weaker than a person who has a 3.1 without retakes.

That said, if you have below Cs in any of your pre-reqs, you will have to retake them because US medical schools do not allow any grade in the basic pre-reqs below a C. Hope this clears things up and other people can agree/disagree.

 

[klmnop]

Therefore, I was told on this forum that I can retake classes too and for the allo SMPs, AMCAS will average my two grades (the original and regrade).

Yeah, reading through this i'm confused as well. Write in shorter sentences on separate lines like I do below so we know where one thought ends and another begins. Sometimes its hard to translate thoughts to text on these.

Lets see if I can clear up anything:

-You are retaking upper-level Ugrad science courses.
-You wish to do an SMP which is graduate level work.
-SMP apps are not through AMCAS.
-SMP adcoms will look at your entire trasncript and decide... they don't release the formula on how they view retake grades.
-However, seeing as how many involve students who didn't quite have a strong enough gpa originally, i believe they will take your best grades or most recent ones.
-When you apply to med school through AMCAS after the SMP, your ugrad GPA and grad (SMP) gpa will be viewed separately and not averaged.
-Your AMCAS Ugrad GPA, however, will be the average of your old ugrad GPA and your retakes (does not involve the SMP at all).

 

[DrMidlife]

No Im sorry let me clarify further as to what I was referring to:

I am currently working to fix my undergraduate gpa. However, I am running out of upper level courses to take. Therefore, I was told on this forum that I can retake classes too and for the allo SMPs, AMCAS will average my two grades (the original and regrade). Therefore, I have signed up to retake the physics classes I bombed like five years ago. So I was wondering, they are still going to average my two grades, correct?

Bolded is incorrect: SMP admissions aren't through AMCAS. Personally when I give guidance on GPA calc protocols, I'm talking about med school admissions, not SMP admissions. SMPs like to see your submitted AMCAS, if you have one. But in general choosing coursework for SMP admissions is not the idea here: choose coursework for med school admissions. And in general, SMPs want to see the same thing med schools want to see for a GPA comeback: excellent grades in substantial science coursework. How any particular SMP calculates GPA for repeats is not likely to help or hurt you unless you're sitting right at the minimum.

AMCAS will indeed average all your coursework, so if you take Bio I 8 times, all 8 times are in your AMCAS average. AACOMAS, by contrast, lets you designate repeated coursework and count only the most recent grade (take bio 8 times, get a D the first 7 times, then get an A, and AACOMAS only averages in the A).

Best of luck to you.

 

[yadave]

Rob is correct and I'm a bit confused by what you're saying as well.

Are you saying that if you enter an SMP program, you would be retaking those graduate medical school courses because you've already done them somewhere else?

If you are running out of upper division science courses for UG and you are applying for allopathic schools, I don't know who you've been hearing advice from on these boards but at that point I would be looking to SMPs as the next step.

Look at it this way, it's not that if you achieve a certain minimum competitive GPA by taking 1005229 retakes of your poor grades that medical school Adcoms will go accept you. When they look at your classes, they'll see that you've transitioned from the pre-req medical school courses to upper division and then back to pre-reqs. Say you turn a C from before into an A. What are they supposed to think? From an Adcoms point of view and I have spoken to several admissions reps from medical schools on this, you were supposed to get that A the first time in the basic sciences. If you retake any pre-req science class, it just means that you retook a class where you already learned the material and that hardly says much about your academic competence for medical school.

That is why SMPs are regarded for people in your situation. They provide an even harder class that is identical or very representative of what you will be required to take if you're an MS1 and allow them to see how you would perform on that level. If you have keep retaking classes to get to say a 3.1 when you were a 3.0 before by making the newly obtained As/Bs to replace your previous Cs, in their mind, you're probably still weaker than a person who has a 3.1 without retakes.

That said, if you have below Cs in any of your pre-reqs, you will have to retake them because US medical schools do not allow any grade in the basic pre-reqs below a C. Hope this clears things up and other people can agree/disagree.

Thanks for the advice. I have one more question for you:

1) How many upper division undergraduate classes do I have to take for the admission committees to excuse my poor grades in my pre-med classes?

In other words I just want to know what you must do to "prove" yourself to the admission committees for the SMPs.

Some general points about my situation:

-I have been taking 16-18 credits of classes per quarter (a mix of hard upper levels and 200-300 courses as well)
-4.0 every quarter for about a year now
-working full time as a research assistant
- volunteering
-two publications.

**I am trying to get my gpa to a 3.0

My GPA is coming up slowly but surely, and I just want to secure my chances of gaining admission into a SMP as much as possible.

Sorry for the confusion earlier.

Any advice you have on what else I can do to increase my chances of getting into medschool is much appreciated.

 

[yadave]

Bolded is incorrect: SMP admissions aren't through AMCAS. Personally when I give guidance on GPA calc protocols, I'm talking about med school admissions, not SMP admissions. SMPs like to see your submitted AMCAS, if you have one. But in general choosing coursework for SMP admissions is not the idea here: choose coursework for med school admissions. And in general, SMPs want to see the same thing med schools want to see for a GPA comeback: excellent grades in substantial science coursework. How any particular SMP calculates GPA for repeats is not likely to help or hurt you unless you're sitting right at the minimum.

AMCAS will indeed average all your coursework, so if you take Bio I 8 times, all 8 times are in your AMCAS average. AACOMAS, by contrast, lets you designate repeated coursework and count only the most recent grade (take bio 8 times, get a D the first 7 times, then get an A, and AACOMAS only averages in the A).

Best of luck to you.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH (as always) ! that is exactly what I was wondering.👍

 

[jslo85]

Thanks for the advice. I have one more question for you:

1) How many upper division undergraduate classes do I have to take for the admission committees to excuse my poor grades in my pre-med classes?

In other words I just want to know what you must do to "prove" yourself to the admission committees for the SMPs.

Some general points about my situation:

-I have been taking 16-18 credits of classes per quarter (a mix of hard upper levels and 200-300 courses as well)
-4.0 every quarter for about a year now
-working full time as a research assistant
- volunteering
-two publications.

**I am trying to get my gpa to a 3.0

My GPA is coming up slowly but surely, and I just want to secure my chances of gaining admission into a SMP as much as possible.

Sorry for the confusion earlier.

Any advice you have on what else I can do to increase my chances of getting into medschool is much appreciated.

There is no set number of upper division courses you need to take, it's however many that will get you into the SMP program that you are interested in. The 3.0 number is an arbitrary number that we generally refer to on SDN as a rough estimate for most SMPs to begin considering applicants. There are plenty of other variables such as upward trends, LORs, E.Cs, etc. that will influence the SMP acceptance/rejection. All I can say is you had better have a complete package or alot of factors that are going for you if you have a deficiency in your application that would suggest you have the potential to be a physician in the future.

Looking at your stats you're going in the right direction. If you are still sub 3.0, I would try do research on these forums and try to find threads about certain programs that interest you and see if there have been applicant stats who have been accepted with a sub 3.0 gpa as well. I would also look into strengthening other parts of your application like obtaining solid LOR from your PI/mentor who you published with as well as from your professors with whom you have done well in their class so they can attest to your current performance. Apply early and broadly and hope for the best.

Good luck

 

[drizzt3117]

Remember that the end point is getting into medical school, not getting into a SMP. Unless you're getting into one of the super high linkage SMPs, the two aren't necessarily the same thing.

There is no set number of upper division courses you need to take, it's however many that will get you into the SMP program that you are interested in. The 3.0 number is an arbitrary number that we generally refer to on SDN as a rough estimate for most SMPs to begin considering applicants. There are plenty of other variables such as upward trends, LORs, E.Cs, etc. that will influence the SMP acceptance/rejection. All I can say is you had better have a complete package or alot of factors that are going for you if you have a deficiency in your application that would suggest you have the potential to be a physician in the future.

Looking at your stats you're going in the right direction. If you are still sub 3.0, I would try do research on these forums and try to find threads about certain programs that interest you and see if there have been applicant stats who have been accepted with a sub 3.0 gpa as well. I would also look into strengthening other parts of your application like obtaining solid LOR from your PI/mentor who you published with as well as from your professors with whom you have done well in their class so they can attest to your current performance. Apply early and broadly and hope for the best.

Good luck

 

[TiggidyTooth]

Thanks for the advice. I have one more question for you:

1) How many upper division undergraduate classes do I have to take for the admission committees to excuse my poor grades in my pre-med classes?

In other words I just want to know what you must do to "prove" yourself to the admission committees for the SMPs.

Some general points about my situation:

-I have been taking 16-18 credits of classes per quarter (a mix of hard upper levels and 200-300 courses as well)
-4.0 every quarter for about a year now
-working full time as a research assistant
- volunteering
-two publications.

**I am trying to get my gpa to a 3.0

My GPA is coming up slowly but surely, and I just want to secure my chances of gaining admission into a SMP as much as possible.

Sorry for the confusion earlier.

Any advice you have on what else I can do to increase my chances of getting into medschool is much appreciated.

As someone who went through this process, and has been interviewing students for medical school, and is now about to graduate from medical school I thought that my advice may be of some help. To gain admittance into an SMP there is no hard 3.0 cutoff. It's just a number that makes us feel good. What the admission committees to both medical school and SMP's want to see is a strong upward trend. I did a year of post-bac upperdivision course work and got all A's. And my GPA was < 2.5. So I would say that since you are doing that that you are well on your way. I would say that your efforts, after you graduate assuming you continue to kill it in your courses is to take the MCAT and do well and then go ahead and apply to SMP's like georgetown and EVMS. They are designed to help students out specifically like you. I would also call the SMP programs directly and see what they think of your situation. That is invaluable information and you will be put at ease once you here it from the horse's mouth. I would also focus on taking upper division science classes and not repeating old course work although it certainly wouldn't look bad if you did. I guess it dosen't matter too much either way. Big thing is to continue to ace your classes.

Tooth

 

[yadave]

As someone who went through this process, and has been interviewing students for medical school, and is now about to graduate from medical school I thought that my advice may be of some help. To gain admittance into an SMP there is no hard 3.0 cutoff. It's just a number that makes us feel good. What the admission committees to both medical school and SMP's want to see is a strong upward trend. I did a year of post-bac upperdivision course work and got all A's. And my GPA was < 2.5. So I would say that since you are doing that that you are well on your way. I would say that your efforts, after you graduate assuming you continue to kill it in your courses is to take the MCAT and do well and then go ahead and apply to SMP's like georgetown and EVMS. They are designed to help students out specifically like you. I would also call the SMP programs directly and see what they think of your situation. That is invaluable information and you will be put at ease once you here it from the horse's mouth. I would also focus on taking upper division science classes and not repeating old course work although it certainly wouldn't look bad if you did. I guess it dosen't matter too much either way. Big thing is to continue to ace your classes.

Tooth

Wow thanks so much that definitely makes me feel a lot better. I am re-taking my physics sequence primarily because I got less than a C in all of the classes. As of right now I do not intend to retake all of my pre-med courses. I really want to get into Cincinnati's SMP (my first choice) because I went to UC for my undergraduate degree and have been doing this informal post bacc here as well. Does anyone know how much preference is given to in state students for most of these programs? I talked to Dr Banks (coordinator) a while ago and he put a lot of focus on my MCAT score rather than the GPA factor.

Thanks again for all the information guys! I really appreciate it.

 

[Spikebd]

Hello SDN,

I am new here and this is my first post.

My story goes like this. I am a senior graduating this year. I am majoring in business. I have a 3.1 uGPA, but have gotten 3.4, 3.45, and a 3.6 gpa the last semesters. Maturity is starting to kick in late for me, I suppose. I never really considered medicine until lately(my dad is an orthopedic surgeon and I wanted to blaze my own trial), and now I am just trying to gather more information. I have a job for the next year, so I have time to be patient while discerning my future.

My first question is, what postbac programs are best for those with no science background? (Columbia, Tufts, HEC?) Next, if I succeed in those programs what are the chances that medical schools would consider an applicant with that low of an uGPA? Would good postbac work + good MCAT scores be good enough for someone like me to be competitive at most medical schools? Or with that GPA is it impossible. A related question, what chances to successful postbac students have of getting into top tier medical schools?

I apologize if my post is answered on other threads, but I figured I could get the best responses to my specific questions by just asking them. I am still fairly young, 21, and a postbac is my only avenue to medical school.

 

[jslo85]

Hello SDN,

I am new here and this is my first post.

My story goes like this. I am a senior graduating this year. I am majoring in business. I have a 3.1 uGPA, but have gotten 3.4, 3.45, and a 3.6 gpa the last semesters. Maturity is starting to kick in late for me, I suppose. I never really considered medicine until lately(my dad is an orthopedic surgeon and I wanted to blaze my own trial), and now I am just trying to gather more information. I have a job for the next year, so I have time to be patient while discerning my future.

My first question is, what postbac programs are best for those with no science background? (Columbia, Tufts, HEC?) Next, if I succeed in those programs what are the chances that medical schools would consider an applicant with that low of an uGPA? Would good postbac work + good MCAT scores be good enough for someone like me to be competitive at most medical schools? Or with that GPA is it impossible. A related question, what chances to successful postbac students have of getting into top tier medical schools?

I apologize if my post is answered on other threads, but I figured I could get the best responses to my specific questions by just asking them. I am still fairly young, 21, and a postbac is my only avenue to medical school.

You would be considered as a non-traditional at this point because you have zero science background and are coming off of a Business major and unrelated to any science/pre-med majors.

You need to complete the pre-reqs which lead you to one of two options:

a) Enroll at a local state university close to where you live and complete the pre-reqs as an informal post-bacc or do a second major if you have the extra time that includes all of the medical school pre-reqs

or

b) Enroll at a formal post-bacc program that requires you to complete the pre-reqs and possibly some upper division ug science courses in a particular format and timeframe. The perks of this would be that you would probably receive a certificate upon completion and several of these offer linkages to certai medical/dental programs/schools and the downside would be you might have to relocate to attend them and the price would most likely be more than if you partook in option a.

You're going to have to take several things into consideration. You said time wasn't really an issue for you at this point in time, but is money? Do you have other concerns such as family or a job that would prevent you from moving around? Where are you currently located? Alot of the formal programs for your situation require higher GPA and E.C. stats than you currently have such as Scripps, Goucher, Bryn Mawr to name a few but ones that you would have a shot for would be SFSU, Temple, UT Dallas, possibly UVA (not really sure abou their requirements), HES, etc. I can provide more information if you expressed solid interest in the formal program route but I personally feel that you could do just as well in option A provided you excel in all of the science courses.

You have a blank slate for science GPA so for your own sake, do not start off on the wrong foot like you did for your current major. Do not take more classes than you can handle to simply show an "intense class schedule" if you do not feel you can achieve As in most of them. If you come out strong with a solid MCAT, you stand a good chance of applying out to medical school provided you have the other things such as LOR, E.Cs, etc.

Don't hesitate to PM me about things further and listen to some of the other advice of others that will most likely offer their own thoughts.

Good luck

 

[Spikebd]

I appreciate the thorough response!

Ok, some additional information. I noticed that you are in the Pacific NW. I am here as well and will be staying here to work FT for at least a year (hopefully just that so I can begin my science studies). I see UW offers a postbac program, but it seems very limited and highly competitive.
I am in a serious relationship with my girlfriend is graduating with her BSN this May. She has a job lined up on a Nephrology unit starting in July once she passes her exams. She would be good support through the process. I should be able to transplant without too serious of issues.
I have some OK extracurriculars. The most significant would be studying abroad in Italy for a year, volunteering with Special Olympics while in college, and working a part time job as a cook on weekends. Not anything extraordinary, but I feel I can bring some diversity of experience. My SAT scores were low, 650 verbal, 630 math, but I didn't care about them at all. I want to take a calculus night class this next year just to get me started while I work FT.
Of the programs you named, SFSU and HES sound the most appealing. Money would depend on the program. If the program is rather prestigious, I would probably be able to convince my family to lend support (challenging though). So I should probably not try for Columbia, Tufts, Bryn Mawr, or others?

 

[ryguy4810]

Hey SDN community,

I'm going to be starting my TMDSAS (TX) application tomorrow and happened to stumble upon SDN and I feel like this thread applies to me pretty well.

I'm a texas resident and graduated in 2008 w/ a B.S. in biochem. Also got my paramedic license the same year. I decided I didn't want to go directly into med school and joined the peace corps, I'm currently serving in Peru and will finish this fall (my posting will be quite sporadic due to this). Until reading the forums here I was feeling ok about my stats, but now I've been shaken a bit.

cGPA: 3.10
sGPA: 2.98
MCAT: 35O (14 BS, 12 PS, 9 V)

Leadership: Worked as outdoor recreation trip leader for my university
Founder and captain of club tennis team for two years

Research: One summer of computational chemistry (found research was not to my liking)

Volunteer: 400ish hours volunteering in the ambulance as EMT-B

Clinical experience: 200+ ED Hours and 350+ Ambulance Hours (part of paramedic course)

Would like to stay the MD route, and was mainly considering TX schools, but wondering about my chances with this. Thanks for any help you guys can offer.

 

[RetailBoy]

I think an SMP is the right way to go for you but it's up to you which route you want to take. If osteopathic I strongl suggest you to consider the SMP that is offered at the DO school you're interested in. If allopathic, you need to consider which type of SMP you want to enter, the reputable yet large kind like Gtown or BU MAMS or the smaller but high linkage type like EVMS or UCinn.

Sounds good Jslo! Thanks! I can literally see EVMS where I live from - I wonder if that will get me some extra points haha. Just kidding. 😳

But there are a few professors that I've had and talk to a lot that have worked over there extensively (one was head of a department over there and one did a lot of research with reproductive medicine -HCG) and know a lot of people - I already have letters of recommendations lined up with them, I'm sure that will help.

 

[jslo85]

I appreciate the thorough response!

Ok, some additional information. I noticed that you are in the Pacific NW. I am here as well and will be staying here to work FT for at least a year (hopefully just that so I can begin my science studies). I see UW offers a postbac program, but it seems very limited and highly competitive.
I am in a serious relationship with my girlfriend is graduating with her BSN this May. She has a job lined up on a Nephrology unit starting in July once she passes her exams. She would be good support through the process. I should be able to transplant without too serious of issues.
I have some OK extracurriculars. The most significant would be studying abroad in Italy for a year, volunteering with Special Olympics while in college, and working a part time job as a cook on weekends. Not anything extraordinary, but I feel I can bring some diversity of experience. My SAT scores were low, 650 verbal, 630 math, but I didn't care about them at all. I want to take a calculus night class this next year just to get me started while I work FT.
Of the programs you named, SFSU and HES sound the most appealing. Money would depend on the program. If the program is rather prestigious, I would probably be able to convince my family to lend support (challenging though). So I should probably not try for Columbia, Tufts, Bryn Mawr, or others?

Yeah I'm from the Pacific NW, Portland to be exact. When you suggest UW, I'm assuming you're in Seattle currently?

The post-bacc at UW according to Dr. Midlife who I assume from what I have read is from that area as well is nothing to write home about and neither is the one at Seattle University. In this NW region, there isn't any strong formal pre-med programs in my opinion even though she suggests PSU as the best one, but I've been doing an informal post-bacc part time up here while working for the past couple years since graduating from UC Davis and should be leaving for graduate school in the upcoming months.

I don't see taking calculus as a problem at all but I would suggest that you start looking over some science textbooks to start becoming more comfortable with the type of information that you will be expecting to understand and comprehend from here on out. It's a completely different type of learning and knowledge that you're used to and some non-traditionals excel and others find it excruciatingly painful. Your SATs are somewhat low and to my knowledge, most formal programs require a standardized test score, either the GRE or SAT upon applying, you're going to have to do more research on this one in the ones you're interested in.

The reason I say no BM, Scripps or Goucher is that the competitive applicant to those programs have a far higher GPA than your 3.1 or outstanding test scores which suggest they would be a potential good acceptance otherwise. Not to sound overly negative, but you have neither going for you at the moment. I say no to Columbia because of the multiple mixed reviews I have read on these boards over the years on it. It simply doesn't deliver in quality for what the price and as such there are other programs that are of an equal or higher academic caliber for far less the price. SFSU offers a pre-med track as well as an AE track as a formal program which you will need to apply for and go through an interview. It has no linkages but is a fairly well organized program that I assume most of the schools in the West Coast will know and recognize. HES is a well regarded program on these forums as being cheap and yet offers quality education. They have sent many students into medical school who are also non-traditionals and has several perks such as sponsorship from the Harvard faculty and many shadowing/clinical opportunities in the area (it's Boston). Only potential problems I see is you're relocating across the entire country. I would take a strong look at UT Dallas as well if you're looking to relocate and time isn't an issue.

Your E.C.s are okay for your background in my mind but they completely lack the clinical factor that Adcoms will be looking for. Even in these formal programs, they like to see that you have gotten your "feet wet" and that you genuinely know this is the direction you want to take from their applicants. Some E.C.s that you will probably need to consider in the future would be volunteering in the hospital, shadowing physicians, doing research, EMT-B, working in a doctor's office, OR experience, scribing, etc. Not that you have to do them in paticular but it gives you a general idea of what others are doing and what has worked for them in the past in getting them into their programs/medical school.

 

[jslo85]

Sounds good Jslo! Thanks! I can literally see EVMS where I live from - I wonder if that will get me some extra points haha. Just kidding. 😳

But there are a few professors that I've had and talk to a lot that have worked over there extensively (one was head of a department over there and one did a lot of research with reproductive medicine -HCG) and know a lot of people - I already have letters of recommendations lined up with them, I'm sure that will help.

Good luck on EVMS. Having strong LOR from the current/former faculty/alumni of the school carries a certain amount of weight in that a recognized individual with credibility is offering their support. If they are willing to make a phone call during the application process as a personal endorsement, it might carry that even further. But overall, these things only take you so far and ultimately it will have to do with your own stats and background.

EVMS is considered as public medical school now and accordingly will give preference to in state residents so you have an advantage there. I suggest you apply early and PM Dr. Midlife who is a current MedMasters student finishing up her last year for any further information concerning EVMS' SMP.

 

[jslo85]

Hey SDN community,

I'm going to be starting my TMDSAS (TX) application tomorrow and happened to stumble upon SDN and I feel like this thread applies to me pretty well.

I'm a texas resident and graduated in 2008 w/ a B.S. in biochem. Also got my paramedic license the same year. I decided I didn't want to go directly into med school and joined the peace corps, I'm currently serving in Peru and will finish this fall (my posting will be quite sporadic due to this). Until reading the forums here I was feeling ok about my stats, but now I've been shaken a bit.

cGPA: 3.10
sGPA: 2.98
MCAT: 35O (14 BS, 12 PS, 9 V)

Leadership: Worked as outdoor recreation trip leader for my university
Founder and captain of club tennis team for two years

Research: One summer of computational chemistry (found research was not to my liking)

Volunteer: 400ish hours volunteering in the ambulance as EMT-B

Clinical experience: 200+ ED Hours and 350+ Ambulance Hours (part of paramedic course)

Would like to stay the MD route, and was mainly considering TX schools, but wondering about my chances with this. Thanks for any help you guys can offer.

As a Texas resident you already possess a greater advantage in applying to the TX schools than most other OOS applicants. I believe 2-3 of the TX schools accept 70-90% of their entering medical school class purely from Texas whereas the others give a strong in state preference.

You will have an interesting story to tell from doing mercy corp in Peru, props.

Your stats are not competitive at the moment and if you have done all the pre-reqs and wish to stay in Texas, I'd recommend either UT Dallas's AE program or a program my friend (MS-1) at Texas A&M suggests which is their Anatomy program at the school. They only accept about 2-4 students but from what she tells me, the school has accepted everyone that has successfully completed the program without a glide year. The UT Dallas is a strong program and whereas I'm unsure if they have finalized their linkage agreements yet, I have read somewhere on SDN from current UTD students that they have something in the works for a 3.7-3.75+ GPA student in their program with a 30+ MCAT will get interviews at all the state schools automatically. Don't quote me on this but it is something I have read and I think is worth taking a look into if you are interested.

Either way, your GPA needs some improvement, 3.3-3.4 imo would probably get you interviews in several locations in TX through TMDSAS with your 35 MCAT. Your verbal sticks out like a sore thumb but it's not a terrible score as schools usually require a minimum of a 7-8 in each section and your other scores are excellent.

I'm also an EMT-B and whereas I will say I don't feel the degree itself has done me any favors towards the medical school or SMP application process, it has opened the door to many other clinical opportunities that having an EMT certification has given me the credentials to take advantage of. Again, I say this is a nice thing to put on your resume/talk about in your personal statement in your journey towards selecting medicine.

Your strongest point in my opinion is the wide selection of what you have done/experienced. Mercy corp, extensive volunteering hours, research, and EMT work is an indication that you have tried many different aspects of health care and have for better or worse, allowed you to have a firm stance on knowing that medicine is right for you. Definitely use this to you advantage in your personal statement and interviews and if you can get your GPA to match your other stats, then I think you will have a smooth road ahead of you.

Good luck

 

[tmntdonjuan]

Wow I can finally post a success story here. I was a terrible student in college, particularly in the first 2 years. I was placed on academic probation 3 times and subject to dismissal from my university. Luckily for me I was able to beg the dean of my college to allow me to continue in my studies. My gpa hit a critically low value of 2.2 before I slowly made progress in raising it. Long story short I graduated from the University of California, Riverside with a measly 2.84 cGPA and 2.64 sciGPA in 5 years as a Psychology major. I followed that by enrolling in the VCU Basic Health Sciences Certificate Program. Although the coursework was significantly harder than undergraduate coursework, I was able to attain a GPA of 3.815 with countless hours of studying and stress. The Certificate program definitely helped me with the MCAT's Biological Sciences section and I was able to boost my MCAT from a previous score of 28 to 34. I applied to many schools and was rejected by almost all of them, unsurprising with my extremely low undergraduate GPA. I interviewed at VCU/MCV and Wayne State pretty late in the interview season and to my great delight I was accepted off VCU's waitlist on April 26th. I'm not the only one with this story. I know two other individuals who did well in the Certificate Program (4.0 GPA) and were already accepted to VCU despite low undergraduate GPAs (<3.0). Countless people told me I wouldn't make it into medical school and my undergraduate's health professions counselor told me that I did not have the mental capacity for medicine. I know there are plenty of other people who have succeeded as I have or are mired in the process of trying to fix their academic mistakes. Although the past 2 years have been the most stressful years of my life and I've spent countless hours on SDN wondering if I'd ever get in anywhere, I can honestly say that it is totally worth it when you finally receive that acceptance. I've been smiling 24/7 since I was accepted by VCU and I'm smiling right now as I type this post. 😀

 

[yadave]

Wow I can finally post a success story here. I was a terrible student in college, particularly in the first 2 years. I was placed on academic probation 3 times and subject to dismissal from my university. Luckily for me I was able to beg the dean of my college to allow me to continue in my studies. My gpa hit a critically low value of 2.2 before I slowly made progress in raising it. Long story short I graduated from the University of California, Riverside with a measly 2.84 cGPA and 2.64 sciGPA in 5 years as a Psychology major. I followed that by enrolling in the VCU Basic Health Sciences Certificate Program. Although the coursework was significantly harder than undergraduate coursework, I was able to attain a GPA of 3.815 with countless hours of studying and stress. The Certificate program definitely helped me with the MCAT's Biological Sciences section and I was able to boost my MCAT from a previous score of 28 to 34. I applied to many schools and was rejected by almost all of them, unsurprising with my extremely low undergraduate GPA. I interviewed at VCU/MCV and Wayne State pretty late in the interview season and to my great delight I was accepted off VCU's waitlist on April 26th. I'm not the only one with this story. I know two other individuals who did well in the Certificate Program (4.0 GPA) and were already accepted to VCU despite low undergraduate GPAs (<3.0). Countless people told me I wouldn't make it into medical school and my undergraduate's health professions counselor told me that I did not have the mental capacity for medicine. I know there are plenty of other people who have succeeded as I have or are mired in the process of trying to fix their academic mistakes. Although the past 2 years have been the most stressful years of my life and I've spent countless hours on SDN wondering if I'd ever get in anywhere, I can honestly say that it is totally worth it when you finally receive that acceptance. I've been smiling 24/7 since I was accepted by VCU and I'm smiling right now as I type this post. 😀

Wow what an awesome success story!! Thank you for sharing. That definitely gives me so much hope. I am on a similar path of recovery from a poor undergraduate career and hearing these types of stories really boosts my confidence in this whole process!! Thanks again and CONGRATULATIONS!! you deserve every second of the happiness that comes from achieving your dream 🙂

 

[xFutureMDx]

Wow what an awesome success story!! Thank you for sharing. That definitely gives me so much hope. I am on a similar path of recovery from a poor undergraduate career and hearing these types of stories really boosts my confidence in this whole process!! Thanks again and CONGRATULATIONS!! you deserve every second of the happiness that comes from achieving your dream 🙂

Word!

Most of us in this thread are in the same boat. I feel the same way as the poster above. Awesome story! Dibbs for getting in. With enough work, hopefully most of us in here can get there as well. I can't wait for the day that letter or call comes through. That would make it all worth it!

 

[klmnop]

You would be considered ....

Good luck

👍
Compare this to what I said in the other thread spikebd... very similar advice. I agree 100% with slo-j

 

[TyrKinase]

Wow I can finally post a success story here. I was a terrible student in college, .... I've been smiling 24/7 since I was accepted by VCU and I'm smiling right now as I type this post. 😀

Congratulations! As one student with a crappy GPA to another, I can say I know the feeling. Now go enjoy the rest of your summer!

 

[foodishgood]

Hi I have been glancing this forum and especially this thread on and off for past 2 years probably and finally decided to make an account to post

My GPA from undergrad was poor 2.55 cumulative and I haven't count science which is probably similar

I am doing postbac currently and have manage to get a 3.3 the first quarter (16 to 18 units i forgot )but I had financial problems on my 2nd and 3rd quarter which I dropped all the hard upperdiv classes before the class started (doesn't show on my transcript) and I got 4.0 on my lower divs (4 units per quarter), probably getting a 4.0 this quarter (4 units).

I know I'm in a long way to make up for my sins and I dont think I have the financial capabilities for next year, do you guys suggest i drop out of postbac program and attend community college as a way to make up my grades?

Thank you for you time

 

[deleted248403]

No - if you arent doing well in your postbac (and a 3.3 is not well) then you are nailing your own coffin.
Going to CC will just prove you can't handle hard classes and you'll never get into med school.

If you don't start pulling 3.7+ in your postbac soon, i'd consider a new field

 

[EgoAside]

I've been reading through this forum for the past three hours and feel the need to jump into the fray. I guess this is as good a thread as any to lay it all out there. I'm sorry if it's a bit long winded, but I want to be thorough, at least for my own record.

I will be turning 27 next month, and am definitely a "non-traditional" med school candidate. In high school, I was an honors/AP level underachiever, with a 3.1 GPA and a 1420 SAT score (when it was out of 1600). At the age of 19, I put in two uninspired semesters at Central Connecticut State University, collecting a smattering of A's and F's for a 2.2 GPA. I had no idea why I was in college. I left to get an associates degree in Recording Arts, and went to work in a professional recording studio in New York. After realizing that was not the career path for me, I had a series of jobs including working on a live television crew, doing radio voice over work for commercials, and construction (framing/roofing). Around the age of 23 I had gained enough perspective and maturity to understand the value of a university education.

In 2007, I re-enrolled at CCSU in the International Studies: East Asia program (a program involving no science or math - it's all history/poli-sci/language). Since then, I have maintained a 3.9 GPA, with something like a 3.96 within my major. Unfortunately I couldn't convince the admin to wipe my slate clean from my initial year there, so my cumulative is a 3.4. As a top student in the program, I earned the privilege of studying abroad in Seoul (1 month) and Osaka (1 year exchange). I'm currently taking a semester off in Thailand, where I did some volunteer English teaching, and will soon be doing a volunteer medical internship at a hospital, involving shadowing a doctor 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for basically as long as I want. I'll probably do it 4-6 weeks, since I have to pay for it. When I get back home, I just have to write a capstone research paper and take one more elective to have enough credits to graduate in December.

I would like to apply for a program along the lines of Bryn Mawr, Scripps, Goucher, etc. I know a medical career is the right path for me. It took a long, strange road with a lot of unexpected turns that transformed me in ways I could never have expected to arrive at that conclusion, but I am absolutely sure of it. I'm wondering:

- Is postbac the best route for me?
- Do I have a realistic chance at that "tier?"
- Do you think admissions will understand that the first year on my academic record was a lifetime ago, and will be willing to overlook it in favor of my last 3-4 years?
- My only experience in a medical field will be this upcoming hospital program in Thailand. What else will I need to do on an extra-curricular basis upon returning to the US?
- Is a Fall (or possibly summer) 2011 start date realistic?

Thank you!!!

 

[DrMidlife]

Please put all your transcripts together and calculate your cumulative overall GPA. That's how you'll be evaluated at formal programs, at SMPs, and at med schools. What any one transcript says about your GPA is completely meaningless.

- Is postbac the best route for me?

Since you need the prereqs, it's the only route. Whether you can get into a structured formal competitive postbac or not is another issue. In your case, you need additional undergrad coursework for GPA repair and for completing prereqs. Using the word "postbac" isn't going to get you precise advice, on SDN or elsewhere.

- Do I have a realistic chance at that "tier?"

Bryn Mawr et al? Probably not, but there's no harm in trying.

- Do you think admissions will understand that the first year on my academic record was a lifetime ago, and will be willing to overlook it in favor of my last 3-4 years?

Postbac admissions maybe. Med schools no. Med schools will average every college grade you ever received (DO schools will forgive an old grade after a retake) and use that cumulative average to compare you to the other 5000 applicants per school.

- My only experience in a medical field will be this upcoming hospital program in Thailand. What else will I need to do on an extra-curricular basis upon returning to the US?

Start hospital and/or clinic volunteering and start shadowing physicians the minute you hit the ground. Your work in Thailand is not likely to meet the bar at the competitive formal programs like Bryn Mawr.

- Is a Fall (or possibly summer) 2011 start date realistic?

Sure. Be ready to apply this September.

Best of luck to you.

 

[EgoAside]

Thank you for the response. Mildly sobering, but still plenty of room for optimism. 🙂

 

[drizzt3117]

Thank you for the response. Mildly sobering, but still plenty of room for optimism. 🙂

I'd check out HES... seems like a good fit.

 

[jslo85]

The applicant has alot of options, I'd do some research and find out what programs are a perfect fit for him. Yes, HES is a legit option if you're already in the East coast.

-off the record Drizzt, do you get commission in a deal with Harvard Extension for referring SDN members to their program kind of like Comcast and their $100 refer a friend? If so is there any way for me to be able to get in on that as well? ^^

 

[Jaywayne]

I'm about to graduate in the fall of 2010 with a degree in biology(molecular) minor in Chemistry. I switched majors by the way too(comp sci).
I've been through some personal issues and GPA crashed from a near 4.0 to what it is now:


GPA: 2.5/2.5
Units:225
URM



I want to go to a US med school or one of the big four in the Caribbean. What should I do?