The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

[SMPtoMD]

i think this post belongs here......

First of all...thanks to all of you that daily post their opinions on SDN i have been using this for years now...but this is my first time posting.

I am going into my senior at an UNRANKED Private University that most of the people probably havent heard of. This is what scares me, because many of the low GPA people that get into SMP are (IMO...) from a reputable college that is known to be difficult.

At the time of applying to SMPs I will have:

• 3.1 cGPA (i can get it up to 3.33 by the time i graduate in may, 2012)
• 3.0 sGPA (i can get it up to 3.16 by the time i graduate in may, 2012)
• MCAT 30O (12B - 10P - 8V)
• 100+ Hospital Volunteering hrs
• 100+ Clinical shadowing/in OR sugery hrs.
• 6 months or 50+ hrs of research at a top tier medical school
• 4+ yrs of community health care experience with holding many leadership positions in the organization
• very strong 5 LORs (2 from science teachers, 1 from philosophy teacher (to back up my low verbal scores plus i have a good relationship with my PHIL teacher, 1 from a very supportive plastic surgeon that i have worked with, 1 from a reputable top 15 medical school's associate dean)

Please advise because i know that i have OKAY stats for an SMP but most of the people that have similar stats as me come from a very highly ranked and reputable undergrad institution....which i think will throw me off..... i m scared..... i am looking forward to GTOWN/CINCI/BU/EVMS/TULANE ACP (in that ballpark)

much thanks in advance

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[softeyes]

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[alexkball]

Okay here's my situation:

I graduated from UNC-Chapel Hill with a 3.4x cumulative GPA. Non-science major in psychology and American studies. I took one "hard science" class (Biol 101) and got a C+ in it (oops). It was my very last class before graduating so I didn't really take it as seriously as I probably should have. Either way, that's my situation.

SAT Score: 1390

Looking to take the required classes for Medical School but can't for the life of me figure out which programs I'd be a good fit for (that I'd have a good shot of getting into). I would like one with more structure than what I've read of HES, which seems like a glorified community college/night school. I'd definitely do better in a more structured setting.

I currently work as a caretaker for a woman with a traumatic brain injury (somewhat medical related) and have been volunteering at two local health clinics for about 9 months now. That's about the extent of my credentials.

Any thoughts at all?

 

[NJD519]

HES, which seems like a glorified community college

Umm, not even close. Yes you need to sit in the driver's seat at some point, but it is by far the best education you can get for the money, IMO. The teachers are great and the curriculum is well taught. With that being said, along with the difficulty, it is most definitely NOT a glorified community college.

 

[fakebun]

BS in Biology from UCLA
GPA 2.5 science, oGPA 2.89, some classes here and there from other state schools hoping to raise stats. Got As in all of them (like 12 units total)
DAT - 20AA 20TS 18 PAT
Waiting for UCI to begin and hopefully with the larger class I can get into the classes I want for the the next coming year and hopefully do well and use the upward trend as an advantage to get into dental schools. Really don't want to go into SMPs as those are freakin expensive and hard.

 

[deleted248403]

BS in Biology from UCLA
GPA 2.5 science, oGPA 2.89, some classes here and there from other state schools hoping to raise stats. Got As in all of them (like 12 units total)
DAT - 20AA 20TS 18 PAT
Waiting for UCI to begin and hopefully with the larger class I can get into the classes I want for the the next coming year and hopefully do well and use the upward trend as an advantage to get into dental schools. Really don't want to go into SMPs as those are freakin expensive and hard.

Was there a question in there or were you just telling us your story?

 

[vchou]

Hello everybody, I'd like to explain my situation and I hope someone could possibly give me advice!

I have a 3.22 BCPM GPA and 3.33 cumulative GPA. (I think I belong in this thread?) I majored in psychology at Northwestern University, but took all the premed courses and then some upper elective biology courses. I am studying for the MCATs currently, then plan on taking some graduate courses at UIC (not for degree) in the spring, after which I plan on applying. I have little volunteer hours but I have researched for 1.5 years in a NU Feinberg lab. I'm going to search for ER volunteer position in one of the many hospitals near UIC.

From briefly looking over this thread, I see the general consensus is that one must show 2+ years of GPA improvement before considering applying. In my current plan, I am only devoting half a semester to grades. I am hoping that doing stellar on MCATs (35+?) will allow me to have a fighting chance, even with only one semester post-grad with a good GPA. I know this question is very speculative. IF I get a good MCAT score and IF i get good GPA at UIC, would this be sufficient?

Extremely grateful for any replies, and I'm sorry if I've asked anything that may have already been covered.

 

[drizzt3117]

If you got 6 mo of solid grades and a good MCAT you'd be fine, apply early and broadly.

Hello everybody, I'd like to explain my situation and I hope someone could possibly give me advice!

I have a 3.22 BCPM GPA and 3.33 cumulative GPA. (I think I belong in this thread?) I majored in psychology at Northwestern University, but took all the premed courses and then some upper elective biology courses. I am studying for the MCATs currently, then plan on taking some graduate courses at UIC (not for degree) in the spring, after which I plan on applying. I have little volunteer hours but I have researched for 1.5 years in a NU Feinberg lab. I'm going to search for ER volunteer position in one of the many hospitals near UIC.

From briefly looking over this thread, I see the general consensus is that one must show 2+ years of GPA improvement before considering applying. In my current plan, I am only devoting half a semester to grades. I am hoping that doing stellar on MCATs (35+?) will allow me to have a fighting chance, even with only one semester post-grad with a good GPA. I know this question is very speculative. IF I get a good MCAT score and IF i get good GPA at UIC, would this be sufficient?

Extremely grateful for any replies, and I'm sorry if I've asked anything that may have already been covered.

 

[fakebun]

Was there a question in there or were you just telling us your story?

Lol sorry. I was too bummed when I wrote that. I was actually asking a question.

Just wondering if it's possible to 1. not do SMP and 2. not take Anatomy to get into dental school with my situation

 

[Rchar13]

Undergraduate GPA: 2.9. This was the result of me coming into college overconfident. By the time I realized my course load might be too much, I couldn't drop or withdraw from any of the classes. Then sophomore, I was hospitalized for about 2 weeks, including during some of Finals week. I petitioned to have those classes removed from my transcript, but my school denied my petition. So my last two years were spent working to rectify the 1st two years.

I graduated and attended Hofstra University's Post-Bach Program for one year taking pre-med courses that I have not taken yet. (As and Bs) I would've liked to stay another year to take higher level sciences, but finances made that difficult.

Currently, I'm taking one class at a community college. While I do have almost 300 hours of volunteer experience in a hospital setting and numerous other non-medical organizations I was involved with on my resume, I have yet to have performed any research (I am looking right now though).

I am just wondering what suggestions you all might have to bolster my chances at getting into medical school. Do I need to look into applying to an SMP, or is there a route I could effectively take without that? Any advice would be very much appreciated.

 

[bdvz]

Undergraduate GPA: 2.9. This was the result of me coming into college overconfident. By the time I realized my course load might be too much, I couldn't drop or withdraw from any of the classes. Then sophomore, I was hospitalized for about 2 weeks, including during some of Finals week. I petitioned to have those classes removed from my transcript, but my school denied my petition. So my last two years were spent working to rectify the 1st two years.

I graduated and attended Hofstra University's Post-Bach Program for one year taking pre-med courses that I have not taken yet. (As and Bs) I would've liked to stay another year to take higher level sciences, but finances made that difficult.

Currently, I'm taking one class at a community college. While I do have almost 300 hours of volunteer experience in a hospital setting and numerous other non-medical organizations I was involved with on my resume, I have yet to have performed any research (I am looking right now though).

I am just wondering what suggestions you all might have to bolster my chances at getting into medical school. Do I need to look into applying to an SMP, or is there a route I could effectively take without that? Any advice would be very much appreciated.

You need a SMP and you need to score well on the MCAT. Take a look at this chart and it will show you the odds of getting in based on GPA and MCAT. For a 2.9 your chances of getting in are 16% with a 27-29 MCAT score, 24% with a 30-32 MCAT score, and 33% with a 33-35.

When one thing is missing from your application, everything else needs to be in order. Be sure you have great LORs, MCAT, volunteering, and a little research couldn't hurt either. Take a prep course for the MCAT if you think it would help as your MCAT score will be crucial. Try the BU MAMS or RFU SMP programs as they are more forgiving of a low GPA if your MCAT score can compensate.

If you absolutely cannot wait any longer to go to medical school and you're willing to risk failing out/not matching into residency and being in LOTS of debt that you can't cancel with bankruptcy, apply to the Caribbean. This chart shows the odds of matching based on being a Caribbean grad compared to being a US medical school graduate. It is clear that it is much easier in the long run to graduate from a US school--as with a low GPA, Caribbean grads need higher board scores and better overall applications to match into residencies than US medical school graduates. There is a Caribbean forum on this website if you scroll down from the main page with lots of helpful info. Good luck!

edited to add: Lots of medical schools screen out applicants if your GPA is less than 3.0--therefore many people recommend continuing to take undergraduate classes to raise your GPA to the 3.0 mark before you apply. So you might want to look into enrolling as a second-degree student to get more financial aid, or working with a financial aid advisor at your school to work out a package that would allow you to take more undergraduate classes to raise your uGPA before you apply to a SMP.

A few schools will give you a "blank slate" and replace your uGPA with the SMP or post-bacc GPA. UMDNJ does this with their GSBS program according to a post I read on SDN, and Wayne State will consider 20 credits of post-bacc or grad work as the science GPA instead of the undergraduate science GPA.

 

[coloradoguy]

OK so hear goes. I originally went to school for business and did poorly. I took some time off and started a business. I cam back to school majored in physiology and did well. In my 3+ years since returning I have a 3.56 cgpa and a 3.60 sgpa. . My cumulative gpa is a 3.15 and science gpa is 3.45 for AAMCs and 3.6 for AACOMAS. I got a 32 on my MCAT (B12 PS: 10, V:10 W:M). I also got in a fight that I was suspended for a semester for in my first time at school. That was nearly ten years ago. I am currently taking some courses and will get my BA at the end of the semester. I am currently working on getting research experience, and clinical volunteer experience.For medical school I am open to either MD or DO. I am currently applying and trying to get my primaries into DO schools this week. Anyways I would love any insight into how competitive I am for DO and MD schools.. Do I need to do more school work? Any insight will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Isoprop]

OK so hear goes. I originally went to school for business and did poorly. I took some time off and started a business. I cam back to school majored in physiology and did well. In my 3+ years since returning I have a 3.56 cgpa and a 3.60 sgpa. . My cumulative gpa is a 3.15 and science gpa is 3.45 for AAMCs and 3.6 for AACOMAS. I got a 32 on my MCAT (B12 PS: 10, V:10 W:M). I also got in a fight that I was suspended for a semester for in my first time at school. That was nearly ten years ago. I am currently taking some courses and will get my BA at the end of the semester. I am currently working on getting research experience, and clinical volunteer experience.For medical school I am open to either MD or DO. I am currently applying and trying to get my primaries into DO schools this week. Anyways I would love any insight into how competitive I am for DO and MD schools.. Do I need to do more school work? Any insight will be greatly appreciated.

Congrats on your MCAT. Unfortunately, there are a few dings in your application that will probably preclude admission this coming year.

1) you are applying very late. with these stats, you should be applying early and broadly to a lot of different schools
2) lack of clinical volunteer experience. unless you have some prior contact with patients from a previous job or in some way that you haven't disclosed in your post, lack of experience is a major problem

Your MCAT is fine. Your GPA is low, but your recent coursework really makes up for it. As far as the suspension for getting into a fight: this isn't a deal breaker, but it is something that you need to address in your application and in your interview.

With 3 years of a 3.5 GPA and a 32 MCAT, I don't believe you need any more coursework.

If I were you, I would postpone my application until next year. I would focus on finishing school, getting clinical experience (very important), obtaining strong letters of recommendation (important), and getting your primary application together to submit early next year (extremely important). Most DO schools require a DO letter, so you may need to shadow a DO physician.

 

[Rchar13]

The undergraduate GPA I mentioned did not take into account the classes that I took at Hofstra's Post-Bach Program, or the classes that I am currently taking right now, so I am hoping that with those, my GPA has risen somewhere above a 3.0. I do think I'll look into an SMP for this upcoming year though, because I would much rather wait to apply when my resume looks its best. Thanks a lot for the advice you offered!

You need a SMP and you need to score well on the MCAT. Take a look at this chart and it will show you the odds of getting in based on GPA and MCAT. For a 2.9 your chances of getting in are 16% with a 27-29 MCAT score, 24% with a 30-32 MCAT score, and 33% with a 33-35.

When one thing is missing from your application, everything else needs to be in order. Be sure you have great LORs, MCAT, volunteering, and a little research couldn't hurt either. Take a prep course for the MCAT if you think it would help as your MCAT score will be crucial. Try the BU MAMS or RFU SMP programs as they are more forgiving of a low GPA if your MCAT score can compensate.

If you absolutely cannot wait any longer to go to medical school and you're willing to risk failing out/not matching into residency and being in LOTS of debt that you can't cancel with bankruptcy, apply to the Caribbean. This chart shows the odds of matching based on being a Caribbean grad compared to being a US medical school graduate. It is clear that it is much easier in the long run to graduate from a US school--as with a low GPA, Caribbean grads need higher board scores and better overall applications to match into residencies than US medical school graduates. There is a Caribbean forum on this website if you scroll down from the main page with lots of helpful info. Good luck!

edited to add: Lots of medical schools screen out applicants if your GPA is less than 3.0--therefore many people recommend continuing to take undergraduate classes to raise your GPA to the 3.0 mark before you apply. So you might want to look into enrolling as a second-degree student to get more financial aid, or working with a financial aid advisor at your school to work out a package that would allow you to take more undergraduate classes to raise your uGPA before you apply to a SMP.

A few schools will give you a "blank slate" and replace your uGPA with the SMP or post-bacc GPA. UMDNJ does this with their GSBS program according to a post I read on SDN, and Wayne State will consider 20 credits of post-bacc or grad work as the science GPA instead of the undergraduate science GPA.

 

[coloradoguy]

Thanks for the post Iso, it was very helpful. Also do people think that with my stats I could have any shot at an MD program. or should I focus primarily on DO?

 

[heavenspiral]

I'm about to start my fourth year at UCI majoring in Public Health Sciences. My current cGPA: 2.63 and my sGPA: 2.44. I transferred into UCI from a community college majoring at the time in cultural anthropology. I took various science courses including general bio, general chemistry, calc I and calc II(honors) due to my interest in physical anthropology at that time. I got C's in the majority with an exception to chem 1 and bio 2. I took the ochem series in my first year at uci and I received the following:
Ochem 51A: C
Lab: C+
Ochem 51B: B-
Lab: B+
Ochem 51C: B

I was wondering if my chances to get into med school eventually would increase if i retook my community college pre-reqs in my 5th year earning A's in all of them, or if I should just take difficult upper division biology courses and earn straight A's as well. How will those community college courses figure in my transcript? I know that my study habits have to change drastically and that its a hard road from here on out. I would appreciate any tips and opinions, thanks for reading this until the end.

 

[DrMidlife]

I'm about to start my fourth year at UCI majoring in Public Health Sciences. My current cGPA: 2.63 and my sGPA: 2.44. I transferred into UCI from a community college majoring at the time in cultural anthropology. I took various science courses including general bio, general chemistry, calc I and calc II(honors) due to my interest in physical anthropology at that time. I got C's in the majority with an exception to chem 1 and bio 2. I took the ochem series in my first year at uci and I received the following:
Ochem 51A: C
Lab: C+
Ochem 51B: B-
Lab: B+
Ochem 51C: B

I was wondering if my chances to get into med school eventually would increase if i retook my community college pre-reqs in my 5th year earning A's in all of them, or if I should just take difficult upper division biology courses and earn straight A's as well. How will those community college courses figure in my transcript? I know that my study habits have to change drastically and that its a hard road from here on out. I would appreciate any tips and opinions, thanks for reading this until the end.

Here's a cookbook: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11083370&postcount=3

Here's what you're up against: https://www.aamc.org/download/161700/data/table21-mcatgpa-statemat2010.pdf.pdf

Best of luck to you.

 

[Isoprop]

Thanks for the post Iso, it was very helpful. Also do people think that with my stats I could have any shot at an MD program. or should I focus primarily on DO?

I would apply to a variety of MD and DO schools. As long as you apply early and broadly, that is.

 

[ScientiaPotenti]

Hi everyone,

I have the following:
3.1 undergrad (humanities)
4.0 formal post-bacc with all the pre-req's

I take MCAT in April (my guess is right around a 30)

Good research, clinical, and volunteer experience (2 neuromedical publications)

Recovery from a chronic injury that motivated my medical interest (2 spinal-surgeries during undergrad that contributed to my low GPA)

any thoughts on how favorable a trend will be relative to cumulative undergrad GPA?

Thanks!

 

[ScientiaPotenti]

Why on earth would it be more difficult to get into a medical school in NY, where there are the most med schools in any state? Am I missing something here?

 

[DrMidlife]

Why on earth would it be more difficult to get into a medical school in NY, where there are the most med schools in any state? Am I missing something here?

There are a lot of ways to mess with the data, but in general, state population determines overall med school instate odds (also federal elections). Tons of people in NY, CA, FL, PA; those are the toughest states for getting into med school. See the AAMC data and the MSAR.

From the '09 entering class MSAR ('11-'12) data, sorted by best public instate odds:

State, avg #seats/app (total), avg #seats/app (instate), avg seats/app (instate public)
Arkansas, 0.10, 0.49, 0.49
Mississippi, 0.44, 0.44, 0.44
Oklahoma, 0.10, 0.42, 0.42
Indiana, 0.09, 0.38, 0.38
S Dakota, 0.13, 0.38, 0.38
Nebraska, 0.06, 0.22, 0.36
New Mexico, 0.13, 0.35, 0.35
Kansas, 0.08, 0.35, 0.35
Puerto Rico, 0.07, 0.17, 0.33
Vermont, 0.02, 0.32, 0.32
N Dakota, 0.20, 0.32, 0.32
W Virginia, 0.04, 0.31, 0.31
Iowa, 0.05, 0.30, 0.30
Nevada, 0.05, 0.30, 0.30
Arizona, 0.20, 0.27, 0.27
Hawaii, 0.04, 0.27, 0.27
Alabama, 0.07, 0.26, 0.26
Kentucky, 0.06, 0.25, 0.25
Louisiana, 0.12, 0.18, 0.24
Oregon, 0.03, 0.22, 0.22
Colorado, 0.04, 0.21, 0.21
Wisconsin, 0.04, 0.17, 0.20
S Carolina, 0.05, 0.20, 0.20
Washington, 0.05, 0.19, 0.19
Tennessee, 0.05, 0.12, 0.19
Missouri, 0.05, 0.12, 0.19
Georgia, 0.06, 0.11, 0.18
Connecticut, 0.03, 0.11, 0.17
Massachusetts, 0.05, 0.08, 0.16
Minnesota, 0.03, 0.09, 0.15
Maryland, 0.03, 0.10, 0.15
Utah, 0.07, 0.14, 0.14
New Jersey, 0.05, 0.14, 0.14
N Carolina, 0.04, 0.08, 0.12
Michigan, 0.05, 0.11, 0.11
Ohio, 0.05, 0.10, 0.11
Virginia, 0.03, 0.11, 0.11
Illinois, 0.03, 0.07, 0.10
Pennsylvania, 0.03, 0.07, 0.06
New York, 0.03, 0.05, 0.06
Texas, 0.05, 0.06, 0.06
Florida, 0.03, 0.05, 0.05
California, 0.02, 0.03, 0.03
DC, 0.02, 0.05, 0
New Hampshire, 0.02, 0.06, 0
Rhode Island, 0.02, 0.07, 0

 

[ranger4]

I am a California resident who graduated from a Texas school in the spring (Biochemistry, 3.25 cGPA and 3.03 sGPA). I took my MCAT in August and got a 32, which is good but unfortunately lower than my practice average of 34-35. I am looking for advice on how to proceed... I was planning on applying to Texas MD schools this cycle but it seems like a shot in the dark at this point. Thanks in advance!

 

[scarshapedstar]

Been waiting years to post in this thread...

Undergrad GPA: 2.85, sGPA 2.93, 148 hours
MCAT: 32R (11V / 9P / 12B)

This is where I stood three years ago. Long story short, my fourth and fifth semesters as an engineer were disastrous personally and academically so I changed majors to biology. Had a strong upward trend, 3.75 my last semester, but the damage was done. Applied after graduating even though I knew I had no chance whatsoever; my parents were kinda naively optimistic and pushed me to do it anyway.

Didn't get an interview, but I was able to meet with admissions afterwards and they recommended I take 32 hours of grad-level courses, and said an informal postbac was fine. I'd hoped to get this done in two semesters but had to do it in three because there just weren't that many classes offered.

Grad GPA: 3.82, 34 hours

That's a little more like it. Got my first 4.0 in grad school. Worked as a private tutor for two semesters and during the third I volunteered two days a week at a free clinic for the homeless.

Applied to three schools between my second and third semesters in the postbac, got one interview in March so I knew my chances were not that good. Sure enough I didn't get in, but I immediately reapplied early decision to my top choice (LSU New Orleans) and... success! Third time's a charm after all.

Grain of salt time: LSU is maybe a little different as far as admissions; they say that 25-30% of each class is made up of reapplicants, and they told me that they forgive undergrad grades after a certain number of postbac hours (as in, that's why so much changed between my second and third applications even though only a few months had gone by).

I was also able to get LOEs from some very respected doctors at the homeless clinic (been volunteering there a bit over a year and I'll be there until I start med school!) and this was huge because everyone I talked to in my interviews knew who they were.

So all told: one gap year of busing tables and whatnot to build up motivation, two years of grueling courses (I had to take two physical chemistry classes that last semester just to free up time for volunteering... ), and it paid off. It really did. There were times when I didn't think this day would ever come, and I started crying as soon as I felt The Thick Letter in my hand. But yes, it's possible to put bad grades behind you!

Good luck to all you other longshots!

 

[drixers]

Any input is appreciated. Thanks in advance...

GPA: 2.8 for both science and cumulative from a UC. Generally dismal grades all years. Slightly elevated grades (3.3 ish) the last year.
MCAT: 33
State: CA
# Classes to reach a 3.0 if I get all A's: 9
Work 1: Research lab for 1.5 years full time (no pubs yet, but hopeful)
Work 2: Part time as SAT instructor for 1 year (I enjoy teaching + extra $)
EC 1: Hospital volunteer (we rotate departments every few months). Will have ~400-500 hours by June, 2012
EC 2: High school volunteer tutor. Will have ~200 hours by June, 2012
EC 3: Food bank/Homeless shelter. Will have ~100 hours by June, 2012
EC 4: Medical trip to Honduras. Honestly a great experience, but not a life-changing moment.

Obviously the first thing to work on is my GPA. I took one upper division science class at a UC and got an A-. Taking another this term and shooting for an A. Also taking a CC stats class just to supplement my GPA (extension is expensive). I know the first step is to get an A in ANY course, but I figured an A- was good enough that I could add a CC class.

My plan is to continue taking a mix of upper division science classes and science classes at the CC to get to a 3.0, then taking a shot at MDs, DOs, and SMPs. If I can get into a good SMP (UCinn, Georgetown, EVMS), I'd rather do that than a DO. I also am planning to retake the MCAT. I didn't prepare the first time and, now that I am more serious about my studies, I strongly believe I can do better job of studying and taking the test.

Question 1: Is my plan OK? Are there any ECs I could/should add?

Question 2: Any specific SMPs I should be looking at? From browsing the forums, it seems as though UCinn, Georgetown, and EVMS are the ones to shoot for in general.

Question 3: IF (BIG IF), I get a 3.0 and 39+ MCAT and try to add a few more ECs, do I have a shot at MD? Application cycle would then be June 2013 for matriculation in Fall 2014. Or should I see if I can get into a SMP with a <3.0, in which case I'd apply soon and start classes Fall 2012? Basically, if I have no chance at an MD straight out, should I start putting in the time and effort into SMP apps even with slim chances since I would be headed that route anyway? Both paths would put me in med school probably in the same year (matriculate 2014 most likely), but if I don't go to an SMP I'll save roughly $80k - 100k from tuition+my current job. The preceding question is all under the assumption that I will eventually be competitive for MD, so I'm avoiding DO.

 

[scarshapedstar]

.....

Question 1: Is my plan OK? Are there any ECs I could/should add?

Question 2: Any specific SMPs I should be looking at? From browsing the forums, it seems as though UCinn, Georgetown, and EVMS are the ones to shoot for in general.

Question 3: IF (BIG IF), I get a 3.0 and 39+ MCAT and try to add a few more ECs, do I have a shot at MD? Application cycle would then be June 2013 for matriculation in Fall 2014. Or should I see if I can get into a SMP with a <3.0, in which case I'd apply soon and start classes Fall 2012? Basically, if I have no chance at an MD straight out, should I start putting in the time and effort into SMP apps even with slim chances since I would be headed that route anyway? Both paths would put me in med school probably in the same year (matriculate 2014 most likely), but if I don't go to an SMP I'll save roughly $80k - 100k from tuition+my current job. The preceding question is all under the assumption that I will eventually be competitive for MD, so I'm avoiding DO.

Read my above post, you're already a lot better off than I was! And if you can get a 39+ MCAT, relax, you're gonna make it.

Your ECs already sound more than solid. I'm wondering how you manage to do all this stuff and have a decent paying job. I feel like a slacker. Anyway, your MCAT is your saving grace and you can definitely go to a US MD program if you can pull it together and excel at an SMP. I'd add Tulane to your list, btw, I've read several times that they will pretty much fast track you into the med school if you get a 4.0 in their Pharmacology SMP. Never applied to one myself though so I can't offer advice on whether it's really necessary to push your GPA above 3.0 before you apply; however, I'm pretty sure they take MCAT scores into consideration and yours is more than good enough.

Ultimately, and maybe most importantly, I picked one school I really liked and I met with their admissions people repeatedly and did everything they asked for years on end. It was either that or play the numbers game and apply to 30 schools each time which quite frankly was too much of a monetary and emotional investment for me to contemplate. A 4.0 SMP would go a very long way for you. A normal Master's might be good enough and more affordable, but schools vary in terms of how heavily they weight your graduate courses, thus the importance of asking around first. Unfortunately, with admissions being in full swing, it may be difficult to schedule an advising session.

To reiterate, though, if the only thing holding you back is that you don't know if you'll make it -- rock the SMP and you'll be a doctor someday. Screw up the SMP and you're, well, screwed.

 

[deleted248403]

Its hilarious to even discuss getting a 39+ on the MCAT; it just shows how clueless one is

Why not look how many people even get 39+ before posting something like that?

 

[drixers]

Its hilarious to even discuss getting a 39+ on the MCAT; it just shows how clueless one is

Why not look how many people even get 39+ before posting something like that?

Fair point. And I have looked. According to the MCAT Wiki entry, out of 82,000 test takers in calendar year 2010, 1% received a 39+. I'm unclear of how it is clueless to discuss being one of those 820 people considering the fact that I already mentioned it was a "BIG IF" and my previous score of 33 was received without preparation. I appreciate the comment, but I disagree.

 

[drixers]

To reiterate, though, if the only thing holding you back is that you don't know if you'll make it -- rock the SMP and you'll be a doctor someday. Screw up the SMP and you're, well, screwed.

Thanks for all the advice listed. Your situation is definitely inspiring to someone in the same boat.

 

[DrMidlife]

Any input is appreciated. Thanks in advance...

I really liked your post because you're following advice & doing the work. You had me until the 39 part. The 39 part is like a 13 year old talking about how unicorns like to be fed. Too imaginary.

I also am planning to retake the MCAT. I didn't prepare the first time and, now that I am more serious about my studies, I strongly believe I can do better job of studying and taking the test.

Your MCAT is plenty to get you into a good SMP. Honestly I think a retake is optional for you. If you want to retake, do it just before you start your SMP.

Question 1: Is my plan OK? Are there any ECs I could/should add?

California is the worst place to stage a GPA comeback. Looks like Louisiana is a pretty good place. Food for thought.

Question 2: Any specific SMPs I should be looking at? From browsing the forums, it seems as though UCinn, Georgetown, and EVMS are the ones to shoot for in general.

Go through the threads for each SMP and see where people are getting into med school. Pick a couple more.

Question 3: IF (BIG IF), I get a 3.0 and 39+ MCAT and try to add a few more ECs, do I have a shot at MD?

Your 33 plus a strong SMP performance would get you into the host med schools after the Cincy/EVMS SMPs. Your MCAT is already above the bar and a 39 isn't going to erase your GPA damage.

What I've seen happen with similar stories is that a barely-3.0 makes it hard to get into a good SMP, so people go to SMPs with poorer results, and that adds years and dollars to the med school plan. Generally I would want to see 2+ years of full time undergrad study, on top of a sub-3.0, as a demonstration that you're committed and capable of multiple years of hard academic effort. I don't get excited about a unit count or any one particular med school's policy. Play the odds - stick to the high road and plan on applying very broadly.

Best of luck to you.

 

[deleted248403]

Fair point. And I have looked. According to the MCAT Wiki entry, out of 82,000 test takers in calendar year 2010, 1% received a 39+. I'm unclear of how it is clueless to discuss being one of those 820 people considering the fact that I already mentioned it was a "BIG IF" and my previous score of 33 was received without preparation. I appreciate the comment, but I disagree.

You are citing Wikipedia....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFBDn5PiL00

Good luck with trying to be in the top 1% - and betting years and $$$ on it; I personally don't like those odds; but hey good luck

 

[DeucesHigh3]

You are citing Wikipedia....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFBDn5PiL00

Good luck with trying to be in the top 1% - and betting years and $$$ on it; I personally don't like those odds; but hey good luck

I dunno... I jumped from a 34 to a 38 between April and August administrations with only a few days of prep in between. Taking the test once (+/- a few full length practice tests) can give you a good handle on what you know, and what you need to brush up on, in order to do much better the next time around. I'll agree that it's crazy to ever *assume* you'll score 39+, but it's not unrealistic to aim for improving a low 30's to a mid-to-high 30's with strategic preparation -- I feel like that has been borne out by more than a few anecdotes on SDN.

 

[deleted248403]

I dunno... I jumped from a 34 to a 38 between April and August administrations with only a few days of prep in between. Taking the test once (+/- a few full length practice tests) can give you a good handle on what you know, and what you need to brush up on, in order to do much better the next time around. I'll agree that it's crazy to ever *assume* you'll score 39+, but it's not unrealistic to aim for improving a low 30's to a mid-to-high 30's with strategic preparation -- I feel like that has been borne out by more than a few anecdotes on SDN.

I didnt say one can't improve - i just dont think the odds are in your favour to go from a 32/33 to a 39+

And there are always exceptions (or anecdotes) to the rule - doesn't mean the rule isnt effective for 95% of the rest of the population. Again, I think its safer to assume one isn't in the top 1% of MCAT takers, then assume one is.

 

[DrMidlife]

A Note to the GPA Comeback Community

All I wanted to know, when I became a premed, was whether or not it was possible to get into med school from a 3.09. I collected mdapps profiles. I obsessed over what I saw on SDN.

So I get it, fellow GPA Comeback Kids. All you want to know is that somebody with a 3.09, or a 2.68, or a 27 or a 19 got into med school, so that you know whether to even try or not.

But 3.09 does not equal 3.09. 27 does not equal 27. You do not get to see the rest of anybody else's package unless/until you're on the admissions committee

If you are from a state that is ridiculously competitive, such as California, your sub-competitive stats will not get you in, like they can in a less competitive state.

If you are from a demographic well represented in medicine, your 3.0/30 will not get you in, like it can if you are from an underrepresented demographic.

Please be smart, and assume that from the vicinity of 3.0, you have multiple years of work between you and a med school acceptance. Applying is very expensive. Rejections are awful. Apply with your best possible app, not with "permission" granted by an anonymous anecdote of somebody with your low stats.

You are going after the career that every parent on the planet would wish for their child. You are up against the highest hopes of your most privileged and capable peers. They are taking your med school seat unless/until you demonstrate that you are a better bet, to adcoms who are your parents' or grandparents' age. Take the SDN 2.5 /25 comeback case as permission to spend the time to improve your chances. It does you no other good.

Best of luck to you.
P.S. I have no particular individual in mind. It's not a response to anything in particular.

 

[scarshapedstar]

Even though that wasn't addressed to anyone I guess I should mention that I switched to biology from engineering six years ago and that was halfway through my third year of college. I will be starting med school at 27. Kids from the high school class below me have gone through med school in the time I've spent picking up the pieces. I'm all happy faces now but I spent basically all of my adult life up till yesterday wondering if I would ever be free of my scarlet letter. I'll throw in also that my engineering disaster was not at LSU but rather at Georgia Tech, ranked #4 in the country. Doesn't matter how you end up in the hole, you have to climb just as far to get out.

So to second DrMidLife, there is no magic quick fix to put yourself on equal footing with the perfect people who've been pre-med since age 9. It will take years of hard work and there will be very few people congratulating you for unsh*tting the academic bed. And as far as extracurricular stuff goes, if anything you will have to go above and beyond the people who are already shoe-ins. I could go on and on but be prepared to spend as much time atoning for undergrad as you spent in undergrad because that might very well happen.

But then afterwards you get to be a doctor! Yaaaaaay!

 

[drixers]

You are citing Wikipedia....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFBDn5PiL00

Good luck with trying to be in the top 1% - and betting years and $$$ on it; I personally don't like those odds; but hey good luck

It is a little hard to generalize all of Wikipedia with a cute little quote from a sitcom. Somehow, I doubt you live your life according to Michael Scott. If you took a moment, you'd have realized that the Wiki article quotes from AAMC. https://www.aamc.org/students/download/157904/data/combined10.pdf

I didnt say one can't improve - i just dont think the odds are in your favour to go from a 32/33 to a 39+

And there are always exceptions (or anecdotes) to the rule - doesn't mean the rule isnt effective for 95% of the rest of the population. Again, I think its safer to assume one isn't in the top 1% of MCAT takers, then assume one is.

I really liked your post because you're following advice & doing the work. You had me until the 39 part. The 39 part is like a 13 year old talking about how unicorns like to be fed. Too imaginary.

I would never and I don't ASSUME that I could reach the top 1% of MCAT takers. However, I find it reasonable to set goals, lofty as they may be. It seems like every mention of a high MCAT score or even a big jump is simply laughed off without any context. I personally don't read too much into these posts because I have faith in my ability to study hard enough to give myself a chance at a great MCAT score. I just don't understand why any person who aims to attain a high score receives the equivalence of a smirk and a sarcastic "good luck." Given the thought and planning I'm devoting to every other part of my app, what makes people think I simply ASSUME to get a 38+, and what makes people automatically ASSUME that it cannot happen? Unicorns, as far as I know, have never existed. High MCAT scores, while rare, do.

Please be smart, and assume that from the vicinity of 3.0, you have multiple years of work between you and a med school acceptance. Applying is very expensive. Rejections are awful. Apply with your best possible app, not with "permission" granted by an anonymous anecdote of somebody with your low stats.

Thanks to all the posts so far from everyone. I can relate to this in that I scoured MdApps and SDN when I first started just to see how low the bar was set, just to give myself a glimmer a hope. I have always understood that I am a long shot, but I will continue to do all that I can to strengthen my application. All I can do is try everything in my power to make my application stand out.

 

[scarshapedstar]

Well, basically, because we all studied for the MCAT and didn't get 39s. By all means be optimistic, but understand that insisting you'll shoot the moon can come across as "I'm smarter and more hardworking than you." Maybe you're right, but we'll believe it when we see the score report. Given the degree of luck involved with that test, planning on a 39 is like saying that you expect your undergrad research project to lead directly to the next Gleevec.

I took the MCAT unprepared (was focusing on the DAT at the time and took it out of curiosity) and got a 31. Studied for months before the retake, and the second time I left the test convinced that there was no way in hell I had anything less than a 36. Felt great.

I went up one measly point to a 32 and that was good enough to get in almost three years later, but I was also repeatedly told that my score was great and my grades were the problem. The admissions chair's exact words were "We know you're smart, now we want to see you work hard." I still felt like my score sucked, because I knew several people with 33s and one with, yes, a 39*. But it didn't matter in the end.

To put it another way, your score is by far the least of your worries. You should plan on doing things that are clearly attainable, and not set yourself up for needless disappointment if you get a bad number playing Brain Roulette. I spent the past six years feeling very pessimistic, and likewise, you're way too hard on yourself in your initial post. I can completely understand the desire to quickly prove yourself by pushing your score up from very good to ridiculously awesome, but it's not going to get you in.

You've probably already scored higher than most doctors who've seen you as a patient. The only thing separating you and them is a few years of stellar grades. Obsess over that instead.

See also, this thread.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=328986

*Incidentally, this person had perhaps the least empathy of anyone I knew, and this was at an engineering school. Somehow I suspect he's doing a plastic surgery residency in Los Angeles...

 

[drixers]

Well, basically, because we all studied for the MCAT and didn't get 39s. By all means be optimistic, but understand that insisting you'll shoot the moon can come across as "I'm smarter and more hardworking than you." Maybe you're right, but we'll believe it when we see the score report. Given the degree of luck involved with that test, planning on a 39 is like saying that you expect your undergrad research project to lead directly to the next Gleevec.

I can completely understand the desire to quickly prove yourself by pushing your score up from very good to ridiculously awesome, but it's not going to get you in.

You've probably already scored higher than most doctors who've seen you as a patient. The only thing separating you and them is a few years of stellar grades. Obsess over that instead.

Thank you for this. It's a very refreshing take of what people are saying and hits close to home for me. You're right, I am trying to hit a home run on the MCAT mostly just to prove myself. GPA fixing has been/is definitely my focus. I need to stay the course.

 

[Enzyme1]

I remember reading this thread and related information for gpa's...to which Dr. Midlife had helped. Midlife can I PM you again perhaps for some more insight or further advice? I really enjoyed speaking with you and look forward to more..but I hope you have the time. Thanks in advance..

 

[LakersInSix]

California is the worst place to stage a GPA comeback. Looks like Louisiana is a pretty good place. Food for thought.

Yeah no kidding about the California remark. Sometimes I think about moving to Texas or Florida or even Ohio. But I haven't heard Louisiana thrown out there too often. True, Tulane and the two LSU's have less applicants. But they have just 3 medical schools. Would you really recommend a Californian move to Louisiana for state residency?

 

[Spikebd]

This fall semester hasn't started out that well. I'm trying to sort out 16 hard science credits and am feeling a little overwhelmed. First two exams from physics and calculus didnt go as I hoped. I also have Ochem II and Cell Bio.

How should I best go about finishing this semester off well? I need as many A's as I can get. Don't want to panic.

 

[deleted248403]

Yeah no kidding about the California remark. Sometimes I think about moving to Texas or Florida or even Ohio. But I haven't heard Louisiana thrown out there too often. True, Tulane and the two LSU's have less applicants. But they have just 3 medical schools. Would you really recommend a Californian move to Louisiana for state residency?

Tulane is prob in 10 in # of apps each year.

And I don't think I would recommend anyone move states just for the residency status. I would just recommend coming to peace with not going to a Cali med school

How should I best go about finishing this semester off well? I need as many A's as I can get. Don't want to panic.

The only answer is to to study harder/better. No secret here unfortunately. Be dispassionate - look at what you are doing and be ruthless in whats useful/whats not, and whats a distraction and what is key.

 

[avaAdore]

A Note to the GPA Comeback Community

All I wanted to know, when I became a premed, was whether or not it was possible to get into med school from a 3.09. I collected mdapps profiles. I obsessed over what I saw on SDN.

So I get it, fellow GPA Comeback Kids. All you want to know is that somebody with a 3.09, or a 2.68, or a 27 or a 19 got into med school, so that you know whether to even try or not.

But 3.09 does not equal 3.09. 27 does not equal 27. You do not get to see the rest of anybody else's package unless/until you're on the admissions committee

If you are from a state that is ridiculously competitive, such as California, your sub-competitive stats will not get you in, like they can in a less competitive state.

If you are from a demographic well represented in medicine, your 3.0/30 will not get you in, like it can if you are from an underrepresented demographic.

Please be smart, and assume that from the vicinity of 3.0, you have multiple years of work between you and a med school acceptance. Applying is very expensive. Rejections are awful. Apply with your best possible app, not with "permission" granted by an anonymous anecdote of somebody with your low stats.

You are going after the career that every parent on the planet would wish for their child. You are up against the highest hopes of your most privileged and capable peers. They are taking your med school seat unless/until you demonstrate that you are a better bet, to adcoms who are your parents' or grandparents' age. Take the SDN 2.5 /25 comeback case as permission to spend the time to improve your chances. It does you no other good.

Best of luck to you.
P.S. I have no particular individual in mind. It's not a response to anything in particular.

Sounds like great advice perhaps someone with admin. committee experience.

Anyway, Im a California resident with a 3.04 cGPA and 3.05 BCPM. As you've mentioned, is it harder for me to get a spot in any US school because I'm a CA resident? Or are you implying that its harder for us residents to get into our state schools?

Like you've said, I plan on putting in the time. I've read somewhere that this is a marathon and not a sprint (did I get that right?). Hopefully there's hope for me yet.
Thanks again.

 

[DrMidlife]

is it harder for me to get a spot in any US school because I'm a CA resident? Or are you implying that its harder for us residents to get into our state schools?

Generally the best bet for any applicant is your state's public schools, because of typically strong in-state preference upwards of 75%. When you apply to a private school or to a public school not in your home state, you don't get any home turf advantage, unless your state funds one of its private schools (such as Baylor).

Thus, as a Californian with a low GPA, you don't have any good bets, because the UCs are so competitive. Your chances at any private CA school or non-CA school are no better, nor worse, than any other applicant with your stats.

Correct that it's a marathon. It took me 6 years.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

This fall semester hasn't started out that well. I'm trying to sort out 16 hard science credits and am feeling a little overwhelmed. First two exams from physics and calculus didnt go as I hoped. I also have Ochem II and Cell Bio.

How should I best go about finishing this semester off well? I need as many A's as I can get. Don't want to panic.

Do the math; if you won't get A's, then you should withdraw. Then what? Regroup, take just one class, focus on your study skills, get an A, then proceed with more.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Yeah no kidding about the California remark. Sometimes I think about moving to Texas or Florida or even Ohio. But I haven't heard Louisiana thrown out there too often. True, Tulane and the two LSU's have less applicants. But they have just 3 medical schools. Would you really recommend a Californian move to Louisiana for state residency?

There are at least 25 states to choose from for decent public med school odds. Any of them would be better than California. The only reason I cited Louisiana is that somebody JUST posted about getting into an LSU on a GPA comeback.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Spikebd]

Do the math; if you won't get A's, then you should withdraw. Then what? Regroup, take just one class, focus on your study skills, get an A, then proceed with more.

Best of luck to you.

I work part time at a restaurant about 15 hours a week on Friday and Saturday nights. I can afford to not work this semester. Should I stop working to free up more time to work on classes?

 

[deleted92121]

Content deleted

 

[deleted248403]

BS in Health Sciences

2.88 cGPA
3.36 sGPA
25 MCAT

Research experience, internship
Volunteer experience
Strong LOR
7 years in EMS as EMT/Paramedic

I am applying osteopathic only. My GPAs are based on the retake policy as I have a few of them. My plan is too apply broadly and very early.

Dont bother - low MCAT and low cGPA = rejection

 

[DrMidlife]

I work part time at a restaurant about 15 hours a week on Friday and Saturday nights. I can afford to not work this semester. Should I stop working to free up more time to work on classes?

Getting more time to study doesn't help you if you already trashed your grades for the term.

When I said "do the math" I meant figure out the exam weighting for the classes you're taking and not doing well in. If the syllabus isn't explicit about exam weighting, get the professor to tell you. Figure out whether you can salvage your term with transcript A's or A-'s. If you can't get A/A-, seriously consider dropping the class(es). If you can live with a B, fine, but if you get a C you have to retake and live with that C forever.

Furthermore, if you're doing poorly on exams, then you're not mastering the material. If you're not mastering the material, then you're not set up to succeed on the MCAT. No amount of test prep is going to cover for weak understanding of the content.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Spikebd]

Getting more time to study doesn't help you if you already trashed your grades for the term.

When I said "do the math" I meant figure out the exam weighting for the classes you're taking and not doing well in. If the syllabus isn't explicit about exam weighting, get the professor to tell you. Figure out whether you can salvage your term with transcript A's or A-'s. If you can't get A/A-, seriously consider dropping the class(es). If you can live with a B, fine, but if you get a C you have to retake and live with that C forever.

Furthermore, if you're doing poorly on exams, then you're not mastering the material. If you're not mastering the material, then you're not set up to succeed on the MCAT. No amount of test prep is going to cover for weak understanding of the content.

Best of luck to you.

I really appreciate the feedback. I did the math and I can still get A's. The next exams will be important though. Physics professor will replace our test grade with our next lowest grade. Math professor weights heavily towards the end plus I didn't do that poorly on the math exam. The questions I missed were because I didn't spend enough time on the material in the last section covered. The previous sections I was doing just fine.
All in all physics is the most challenging so I need time to go through lots of problems. I decided to cut work down to one night a week. Also, I will try to work harder.