The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

[MedicHopeful]

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Wanted to take a second and post an update on this thread. I am an M2 and I am now on my LAST major class of my preclinical curriculum. Things have been going really well, and I have had no real trouble getting the grades I want to get in med school which I am so thankful for! I am starting to prep for both my COMLEX and USLME in the next few months and getting married in a month ahhhh! Good luck to anyone that might be interviewing right now, and congrats to anyone who may have gotten an acceptance this cycle!


Just a little about my background:

Graduated in 2006 from a small no name SUNY school with a 2.45 GPA and something like a 1.5 science GPA. Had started working in healthcare in undergrad and was interested in medicine but couldnt pull it together. Graduated, got my clinical lab scientist licensure (MT) and started working in a lab. I was really loving it, and I took 2 classes at Syracuse University and got As. Inspired I decided to try to take the MCAT. Enrolled in Kaplan, 27O. I applied to about 20 post bacc programs, got rejected to all but 1. Moved to Philly in 2007 to start at Drexel University. After my first year I have a 3.95 GPA. I apply to medical school (DO only) and end up getting 5 interviews. I got one acceptance 2 WLs and 2 rejections out of those interviews! The school wasnt my first choice, but I had done it! The summer before I was going to matriculate I had a severe eye injury causing my retina to detach in that eye. I had emergency surgery but was left with visual issues and headaches for months. I decided to defer for a year to let my eye heal and start school on better footing. During my year off I worked full time, in a lab as always, but I ended up reapplying to PCOM bc I wanted to stay in Philly. Ended up getting an interview on the very first day of interviews in the 2009 cycle!!! Accepted about a month later. PCOM really was like my ultimate school and at 7500 interviews for 1 seat in my class I am incredibly lucky. I overcame such a horrible GPA to ultimately get accepted to, and be successful in medical school. Happy holidays guys 🙂

Wow, inspiring 🙂 Thanks!

 

[MMM03]

Hi all,

I want to warn you beforehand: this is a long post...

I was hoping to get some feedback on my stats (listed below with explanation of extenuating circumstances), and whether or not you suggest I should go to a Post-Bacc program, a SMP, or a regular Master's program.

Also, does anyone have a link or any idea where I could find stats on the various Post-Bacc programs and their respective breakdowns of graduates who gain admission to Med School and which ones? I know it's unlikely to find anything very comprehensive, but anything that could just point me in the direction of which post-bacc programs are generally viewed more favorably would be tremendously helpful.

Stats:

Undergrad:
UCSD, B.S. in Physiology / Neuroscience

Undergrad GPA = 2.631 overall (based on transcript)

sGPA / BCPM GPA = ~2.519 (based on my calculation)
This includes several classes that I think AMCAS excludes from it's calculation, such as Economics, Philosophy, and Cognitive Science courses. Also, this eliminates original grades when a class was repeated, i.e. only higher grade was included when class was attempted multiple times. I know this will skew my sGPA a bit (because AMCAS reports all grades for every attempt), but I don't believe it will shift by more than 0.2 in either direction.

I have not attempted an official MCAT test, but I did take a diagnostic test.
Score: 28, no writing included
Breakdown: 9P, 11B, 8V
This raw score with no studying gives me hope that I have the aptitude, just lacking the diligence at the moment, which I am working to fix (see below). My goal? Break 35, and I don't think that is out the realm of possibility. You be the judge, but I've heard of people increasing their score by 10 points overall after studying, programs, etc.

So I know my GPA is incredibly low, and my transcript is rife with W's, D's, and F's. In most cases, my second attempt for a course resulted in a higher grade, in some cases it went from a D to an A. That being said, in my some of my higher math classes (derivative and vector calculus) and organic chemistry, regardless of number of attempts, those few classes have remained in the D/F level.

As for an explanation... my issue wasn't partying too hard or "enjoying" my college years. I struggled with academics ever since I moved from the east to the west coast in High School. Since then, I've received the reason behind a lot of my issues with working and maintaining concentration: I just got diagnosed with severe ADHD... and it fits incredibly well, explaining my severe underperformance and distractability, disparities between my aptitude and my performance that my teachers and even now, my current co-workers comment on all the time.

Regardless, I'm working hard now to fix this (with the help of several professionals) while I'm a full-time employee and want to eliminate this barrier from me performing at my potential. It's been a dream of mine to be a surgeon, since I was a child, and I want to do whatever I can to achieve that dream... though, I know that it may be difficult.

I apologize for my diatribe, but I'm desperate for anyone to give me advice on anything and everything that I can do to help my situation, and from reading through this forum, it seems, at least based of my numbers, that there is still a chance for me to turn it around.

So the question from here is which one should I pursue: Post-Bacc Program, SMP, and/or regular Master's? And please don't worry about the time needed or required. I have no need to get into Medical School right away; I'm willing to put in as much time as is necessary...

Anyways, I sincerely thank whoever reads through this and responds. Again, I apologize for the very long post. Wanted you to be as informed as possible before commenting on my situation.

Thank you.

 

[MMM03]

Also, I plan on taking open enrollment courses just to see if I can actually focus and perform at the level required at the graduate level and beyond... this will also help with offsetting some of my poorer grades in undergrad. At least, that it is the hope.

Would anyone suggest against this?

Thanks, again.

Hi all,

I want to warn you beforehand: this is a long post...

I was hoping to get some feedback on my stats (listed below with explanation of extenuating circumstances), and whether or not you suggest I should go to a Post-Bacc program, a SMP, or a regular Master's program.

Also, does anyone have a link or any idea where I could find stats on the various Post-Bacc programs and their respective breakdowns of graduates who gain admission to Med School and which ones? I know it's unlikely to find anything very comprehensive, but anything that could just point me in the direction of which post-bacc programs are generally viewed more favorably would be tremendously helpful.

Stats:

Undergrad:
UCSD, B.S. in Physiology / Neuroscience

Undergrad GPA = 2.631 overall (based on transcript)

sGPA / BCPM GPA = ~2.519 (based on my calculation)
This includes several classes that I think AMCAS excludes from it's calculation, such as Economics, Philosophy, and Cognitive Science courses. Also, this eliminates original grades when a class was repeated, i.e. only higher grade was included when class was attempted multiple times. I know this will skew my sGPA a bit (because AMCAS reports all grades for every attempt), but I don't believe it will shift by more than 0.2 in either direction.

I have not attempted an official MCAT test, but I did take a diagnostic test.
Score: 28, no writing included
Breakdown: 9P, 11B, 8V
This raw score with no studying gives me hope that I have the aptitude, just lacking the diligence at the moment, which I am working to fix (see below). My goal? Break 35, and I don't think that is out the realm of possibility. You be the judge, but I've heard of people increasing their score by 10 points overall after studying, programs, etc.

So I know my GPA is incredibly low, and my transcript is rife with W's, D's, and F's. In most cases, my second attempt for a course resulted in a higher grade, in some cases it went from a D to an A. That being said, in my some of my higher math classes (derivative and vector calculus) and organic chemistry, regardless of number of attempts, those few classes have remained in the D/F level.

As for an explanation... my issue wasn't partying too hard or "enjoying" my college years. I struggled with academics ever since I moved from the east to the west coast in High School. Since then, I've received the reason behind a lot of my issues with working and maintaining concentration: I just got diagnosed with severe ADHD... and it fits incredibly well, explaining my severe underperformance and distractability, disparities between my aptitude and my performance that my teachers and even now, my current co-workers comment on all the time.

Regardless, I'm working hard now to fix this (with the help of several professionals) while I'm a full-time employee and want to eliminate this barrier from me performing at my potential. It's been a dream of mine to be a surgeon, since I was a child, and I want to do whatever I can to achieve that dream... though, I know that it may be difficult.

I apologize for my diatribe, but I'm desperate for anyone to give me advice on anything and everything that I can do to help my situation, and from reading through this forum, it seems, at least based of my numbers, that there is still a chance for me to turn it around.

So the question from here is which one should I pursue: Post-Bacc Program, SMP, and/or regular Master's? And please don't worry about the time needed or required. I have no need to get into Medical School right away; I'm willing to put in as much time as is necessary...

Anyways, I sincerely thank whoever reads through this and responds. Again, I apologize for the very long post. Wanted you to be as informed as possible before commenting on my situation.

Thank you.

 

[DeucesHigh3]

Hi all,

I want to warn you beforehand: this is a long post...

I was hoping to get some feedback on my stats (listed below with explanation of extenuating circumstances), and whether or not you suggest I should go to a Post-Bacc program, a SMP, or a regular Master's program.

Also, does anyone have a link or any idea where I could find stats on the various Post-Bacc programs and their respective breakdowns of graduates who gain admission to Med School and which ones? I know it's unlikely to find anything very comprehensive, but anything that could just point me in the direction of which post-bacc programs are generally viewed more favorably would be tremendously helpful.

Stats:

Undergrad:
UCSD, B.S. in Physiology / Neuroscience

Undergrad GPA = 2.631 overall (based on transcript)

sGPA / BCPM GPA = ~2.519 (based on my calculation)
This includes several classes that I think AMCAS excludes from it's calculation, such as Economics, Philosophy, and Cognitive Science courses. Also, this eliminates original grades when a class was repeated, i.e. only higher grade was included when class was attempted multiple times. I know this will skew my sGPA a bit (because AMCAS reports all grades for every attempt), but I don't believe it will shift by more than 0.2 in either direction.

I have not attempted an official MCAT test, but I did take a diagnostic test.
Score: 28, no writing included
Breakdown: 9P, 11B, 8V
This raw score with no studying gives me hope that I have the aptitude, just lacking the diligence at the moment, which I am working to fix (see below). My goal? Break 35, and I don't think that is out the realm of possibility. You be the judge, but I've heard of people increasing their score by 10 points overall after studying, programs, etc.

So I know my GPA is incredibly low, and my transcript is rife with W's, D's, and F's. In most cases, my second attempt for a course resulted in a higher grade, in some cases it went from a D to an A. That being said, in my some of my higher math classes (derivative and vector calculus) and organic chemistry, regardless of number of attempts, those few classes have remained in the D/F level.

As for an explanation... my issue wasn't partying too hard or "enjoying" my college years. I struggled with academics ever since I moved from the east to the west coast in High School. Since then, I've received the reason behind a lot of my issues with working and maintaining concentration: I just got diagnosed with severe ADHD... and it fits incredibly well, explaining my severe underperformance and distractability, disparities between my aptitude and my performance that my teachers and even now, my current co-workers comment on all the time.

Regardless, I'm working hard now to fix this (with the help of several professionals) while I'm a full-time employee and want to eliminate this barrier from me performing at my potential. It's been a dream of mine to be a surgeon, since I was a child, and I want to do whatever I can to achieve that dream... though, I know that it may be difficult.

I apologize for my diatribe, but I'm desperate for anyone to give me advice on anything and everything that I can do to help my situation, and from reading through this forum, it seems, at least based of my numbers, that there is still a chance for me to turn it around.

So the question from here is which one should I pursue: Post-Bacc Program, SMP, and/or regular Master's? And please don't worry about the time needed or required. I have no need to get into Medical School right away; I'm willing to put in as much time as is necessary...

Anyways, I sincerely thank whoever reads through this and responds. Again, I apologize for the very long post. Wanted you to be as informed as possible before commenting on my situation.

Thank you.

I'd say the first thing you should do is actually sit down and make yourself a GPA spreadsheet per AMCAS rules, to see precisely where you stand. Plus/minus 0.2 is a pretty big spread, and you already know that some of your classes won't be sGPA and that the retakes all count in the average. Then, figure out how many semesters of full-time undergrad classes it will take you to get to 3.0, using different assumptions (3.5+, 3.7+, 4.0) based on how you think you can perform once the ADHD is being properly managed. Shooting from the hip, I'd guess about 4 semesters at ~4.0, depending on how many credits you have already. That probably means doing a second bachelors to get financial aid and registration priority, because I doubt many record-enhancing post-bac programs will give you the opportunity to take that many credits. I know that DrMidlife and others will suggest taking 1 or 2 classes at first to make sure you can handle it, but I think that if you had a valid reason for the poor performance before and the problem has been corrected, you could go ahead with a full load (especially if you have the motivation of knowing how crucial it is to succeed this time). Once you get to around a 3.0 GPA, fix your organic chem grade, and hit a mid-30s MCAT (ignore the nay-sayers: that sort of MCAT jump is totally possible, particularly since you probably don't have a good orgo foundation yet), it's time for an SMP. A traditional masters will get you nowhere -- you really need to demonstrate to adcoms that you can handle the pace of med school.

This sort of grade turnaround isn't fun, but there are hundreds of posts in this thread that show that it's possible (most recently from willen101383, awesome!). As for myself, I left school in '06 with a 2.6GPA and 134 credits. After a couple years, I transferred to another school and completed my bachelors with three science-heavy semesters at a 3.95, to bring my cGPA and sGPA both up to ~3.0. Last year I did a SMP with a same-year med school application, and I'm now finishing my first semester as a MS-1.

 

[johnnyscans]

I'd say the first thing you should do is actually sit down and make yourself a GPA spreadsheet per AMCAS rules, to see precisely where you stand. Plus/minus 0.2 is a pretty big spread, and you already know that some of your classes won't be sGPA and that the retakes all count in the average. Then, figure out how many semesters of full-time undergrad classes it will take you to get to 3.0, using different assumptions (3.5+, 3.7+, 4.0) based on how you think you can perform once the ADHD is being properly managed. Shooting from the hip, I'd guess about 4 semesters at ~4.0, depending on how many credits you have already. That probably means doing a second bachelors to get financial aid and registration priority, because I doubt many record-enhancing post-bac programs will give you the opportunity to take that many credits. I know that DrMidlife and others will suggest taking 1 or 2 classes at first to make sure you can handle it, but I think that if you had a valid reason for the poor performance before and the problem has been corrected, you could go ahead with a full load (especially if you have the motivation of knowing how crucial it is to succeed this time). Once you get to around a 3.0 GPA, fix your organic chem grade, and hit a mid-30s MCAT (ignore the nay-sayers: that sort of MCAT jump is totally possible, particularly since you probably don't have a good orgo foundation yet), it's time for an SMP. A traditional masters will get you nowhere -- you really need to demonstrate to adcoms that you can handle the pace of med school.

This sort of grade turnaround isn't fun, but there are hundreds of posts in this thread that show that it's possible (most recently from willen101383, awesome!). As for myself, I left school in '06 with a 2.6GPA and 134 credits. After a couple years, I transferred to another school and completed my bachelors with three science-heavy semesters at a 3.95, to bring my cGPA and sGPA both up to ~3.0. Last year I did a SMP with a same-year med school application, and I'm now finishing my first semester as a MS-1.

I'm going to echo most of this advice. The first thing I did was set up an AMCAS GPA spreadsheet (you can google for it) and enter my grades precisely. This is going to sound weird but it's a humbling experience. Once it's down on paper and triple checked then you can start playing around and seeing how long it will take you to hit that 3.0. Aim for quality courses at a 4 year university. Also, make sure you start working on the rest of your application - ECs, volunteering, meaningful work experience, shadowing, research. When you apply you want to make sure that everything else is perfect; my advisors and mentors stress this to me every day. As contrary as this may sound you can dilute the damage caused by poor past grades (this is coming from two of my mentors, both who sit on Top 20 adcoms), but you've gotta bust your butt to do so.

I'm no pro when it comes to this but I'm guessing your best bet is exactly what DeucesHigh said => 3-4 semesters and a summer or two of a heavy science courseload to get your GPA as high as possible, then MCAT then SMP.

First step though, calculate your exact GPA. It can be scary, and disheartening, but when you know exactly where you are you can start making correct plans for the next couple of years.

Good luck, and welcome

 

[MMM03]

I'm going to echo most of this advice. The first thing I did was set up an AMCAS GPA spreadsheet (you can google for it) and enter my grades precisely. This is going to sound weird but it's a humbling experience. Once it's down on paper and triple checked then you can start playing around and seeing how long it will take you to hit that 3.0. Aim for quality courses at a 4 year university. Also, make sure you start working on the rest of your application - ECs, volunteering, meaningful work experience, shadowing, research. When you apply you want to make sure that everything else is perfect; my advisors and mentors stress this to me every day. As contrary as this may sound you can dilute the damage caused by poor past grades (this is coming from two of my mentors, both who sit on Top 20 adcoms), but you've gotta bust your butt to do so.

I'm no pro when it comes to this but I'm guessing your best bet is exactly what DeucesHigh said => 3-4 semesters and a summer or two of a heavy science courseload to get your GPA as high as possible, then MCAT then SMP.

First step though, calculate your exact GPA. It can be scary, and disheartening, but when you know exactly where you are you can start making correct plans for the next couple of years.

Good luck, and welcome

Hi DeucesHigh, johnnyscans,

Thanks for the reply! This was very helpful. I've been looking into going back and getting a 2nd bachelors, but haven't had much luck in finding places that are willing to give you that opportunity. I was wondering do you or anyone else on this forum know of universities that are easy enough to get in for a second bachelors, yet viewed in a respectable / favorable light, or is it really just a question of going to any school that'll take me in and getting it done?

I agree with you on the MCAT and the grades. I graduated with about 178 credits, since I started out ahead (with AP credit and college courses during HS) by a year and a half. This means for sure 4 sem, or even more... I may even have to potentially do two more bachelor's just to hit respectable numbers... which I'm willing to do, if I can find the school that will provide the opportunity.

I want to prove to myself that I can actually perform better, since I literally just found out about the ADHD. Once fixed, that'll be my measure of success... and then I can pursue the various degrees necessary with more focus and determination. That's really the reason why I want to just take a couple moderately difficult courses from a nearby school...

As for the GPA... yeah, I completely agree with you that the 0.2 spread could be a make it or break it, and even then, I'm low enough that a SMP won't have the impact desired. I will sit down and actually calculate my sGPA with more accuracy and go from there. I think the swing stays net neutral, since if we remove some non-science classes, but put it the retakes, they ultimately are a wash. I'll make sure about that... I found the 2011 AMCAS manual for calculations, so I should have no trouble getting an accurate read on this.

Is there a reason why a Post Bacc wouldn't be very useful for me? I'm just looking to understand the fundamental differences a bit more, that's all... And also, to that same point, would there be issues with doing the Post-Bacc before doing a 2nd Bachelors, i.e. would I be barred from pursuing a 2nd Bachelor's if I've already completely a Post-Bacc program? Is it possible to do both concurrently? I've heard that both function in boosting your uGPA... that might be able to make up for any deficits remaining after a 2nd bachelor's...

Thoughts?

Thanks, again. The help is definitely much appreciated.
M

 

[johnnyscans]

Hi DeucesHigh, johnnyscans,

Thanks for the reply! This was very helpful. I've been looking into going back and getting a 2nd bachelors, but haven't had much luck in finding places that are willing to give you that opportunity. I was wondering do you or anyone else on this forum know of universities that are easy enough to get in for a second bachelors, yet viewed in a respectable / favorable light, or is it really just a question of going to any school that'll take me in and getting it done?

I agree with you on the MCAT and the grades. I graduated with about 178 credits, since I started out ahead (with AP credit and college courses during HS) by a year and a half. This means for sure 4 sem, or even more... I may even have to potentially do two more bachelor's just to hit respectable numbers... which I'm willing to do, if I can find the school that will provide the opportunity.

I want to prove to myself that I can actually perform better, since I literally just found out about the ADHD. Once fixed, that'll be my measure of success... and then I can pursue the various degrees necessary with more focus and determination. That's really the reason why I want to just take a couple moderately difficult courses from a nearby school...

As for the GPA... yeah, I completely agree with you that the 0.2 spread could be a make it or break it, and even then, I'm low enough that a SMP won't have the impact desired. I will sit down and actually calculate my sGPA with more accuracy and go from there. I think the swing stays net neutral, since if we remove some non-science classes, but put it the retakes, they ultimately are a wash. I'll make sure about that... I found the 2011 AMCAS manual for calculations, so I should have no trouble getting an accurate read on this.

Is there a reason why a Post Bacc wouldn't be very useful for me? I'm just looking to understand the fundamental differences a bit more, that's all... And also, to that same point, would there be issues with doing the Post-Bacc before doing a 2nd Bachelors, i.e. would I be barred from pursuing a 2nd Bachelor's if I've already completely a Post-Bacc program? Is it possible to do both concurrently? I've heard that both function in boosting your uGPA... that might be able to make up for any deficits remaining after a 2nd bachelor's...

Thoughts?

Thanks, again. The help is definitely much appreciated.
M

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=590424 <- use that for GPA calculations, it'll save you some work

Second bachelors and post-bacc work and pretty much the same thing. It's undergraduate work done after graduation to finish your pre-reqs and boost your GPA. The reason it may be beneficial for you to pursue a second bachelors is due to financial aid and registration priority. It will also show you can handle a full courseload (since you'll most likely need to stay above a certain number of credit hours). Some post-baccs limit the courses you are allowed to take, yet another reason that a second bachelors may be your best bet.

In the end I think you need to select a program that gives you registration priority, won't break the bank, and has a diverse enough course selection to allow you to prepare for your MCAT and take some tough upper level science courses to show adcoms that you can handle the workload.

I think before anyone can give you concrete advice you need to plug your numbers into the GPA calculator, and then plug in hypothetical future courses (earning A's and A-'s, and see how many you'd need to take to get to the 3.0 mark).

Then you can start planning from there.

 

[Isoprop]

I will echo everyone's sentiment here except with the idea of starting off at a full load of science courses from day 1. This isn't a race. You need to gradually prove to yourself that you can handle the work. It's way too risky, IMO, to start off with 4 or 5 science classes your first post-bacc semester. Getting C's or worse your first semester is not the way you want to start this journey.

Good luck.

 

[johnnyscans]

I will echo everyone's sentiment here except with the idea of starting off at a full load of science courses from day 1. This isn't a race. You need to gradually prove to yourself that you can handle the work. It's way too risky, IMO, to start off with 4 or 5 science classes your first post-bacc semester. Getting C's or worse your first semester is not the way you want to start this journey.

Good luck.

I'll also recommend this - I forgot to mention it in my previous post. I've spent 2 semesters taking 2 classes w/ labs/semester, and only now am I ready to bump it up to 3 classes.

 

[me13579]

Thanks in advance for all ya'lls help!

I transferred into the Univ I currently attend with 44 hrs and a 4.0 GPA from 2 CC, this semester has been horrendous for me, due to personal reasons. I am also in the process of petitioning a course grade. (Hopefully it changes) With that being said, my GPA starts at 0 since I'm new and I finished this semester with a 2.978 🙁 I took:

Orgo Lec= B
Orgo lab (petitioning)= C+
Physics= C+
Physics Lab= B-
Human sit (2 part honors course)
Discussion= A-
Lecture= B+

I am majoring in Biochemistry and minoring in this Medicine and Society program at my university, and I am about to start my Junior year next semester, my question is do Yall think I still have enough time to pull my GPA to be somewhat competitive in applying to med school?

Thanks again!

 

[DrMidlife]

my GPA starts at 0 since I'm new

Nope - CC coursework is part of your GPA. Every college transcript gets averaged together by the med school app service.

and I finished this semester with a 2.978 🙁 I took:!

Do whatever you have to do to get straight A's from here out. If that means taking fewer classes, cutting back on work hours, playing less Xbox, do it.

You need to retake those C's at some point. Some schools require no C's in prereqs. The MCAT will hurt you bad if you didn't learn the prereq material.

Seriously, you just had one bad semester in the middle of a potentially outstanding college career. If the rest of your college career is successful (3.7+), you're good to go.

You don't have a low GPA. Go play with the normies. 🙂

Best of luck to you.

 

[Isoprop]

You need to retake those C's at some point. Some schools require no C's in prereqs.

Wow. Which schools require a B- or better in all their prereqs? I'd imagine it would be a very, very small number.

 

[deleted248403]

Wow. Which schools require a B- or better in all their prereqs? I'd imagine it would be a very, very small number.

Actually no - most schools I had interactions with made it clear B- was the lowest they'd accept in a pre-req.

I imagine they might be ok with it if you had a 3.8 but somehow got a C+ in Orgo II with As elsewhere. But if you are on the lowside to begin with and had multiple Cs.... then you are prob in trouble

 

[DrMidlife]

Wow. Which schools require a B- or better in all their prereqs? I'd imagine it would be a very, very small number.

I sure hope it's an exception that a C isn't accepted by med schools.

My experience with Nova, on the DO side, in 2008, was that long after my acceptance there, when my transcripts were reviewed, in like June, I was notifed that my prereqs weren't complete because I had a C in ochem. If I hadn't taken biochem, and Nova hadn't been willing to take that as a substitute, I would have had to scramble to retake ochem at the last minute. (I retook ochem before moving on to EVMS, so I have no MD-side experience with that C.)

Regardless, whether or not schools will take a prereq C, self-acceptance of a C is naive. That isn't a level of performance consistent with competence, nor does it allow for efficient MCAT prep. Multiple C's, or an early C, are just not good, period.

Best of luck to you.

 

[me13579]

Thank you! Finally some good news!

Just one more question, if I can't get the grade change for Orgo Lab 1 should I just retake it? For the lecture I got a B, at my univ they have the grades separated for Organic, and the lab counts for 2 hrs credit.

 

[thecgrblue]

Tossing myself to the wolves here...

cGPA- 3.2
sGPA- 2.8
MCAT - 27Q (shotgun decision, no studying)

I graduated from a well-known private university in physiology and developmental biology. Good ECs, could shadow more, absurd amounts of volunteering.

I got accepted to an optometry school for c/o 2015 then had a quarter-life crisis (goes to how how easy OD school is to get in to). Decided 2 months before I was set to move to pursue med school.

Knowing full well I screwed the pooch (metaphorically obviously) during UG I'm trying to decide between lot of undergrad retakes, SMP, or formal masters. Combination of undergrad and SMP? I'm fine with the D.O. route, haven't even bothered convincing myself I have a shot at M.D.

I've exhausted the upper-divisions (patho, histology, endocrinology, adv molecular) as part of my major. I've searched the forums and know my scenario has been explored billions of times...but I'm posting anyway.

 

[WonkyBella]

Okay, some weird news...After talking to some admissions people of colleges nearby (some where I have previously conducted research), I decided to go ahead and apply. They were really sympathetic and understanding of my situation and told me to apply and that an interview would be likely. I know it is crazy, but if I were to be accepted, should I take the offer? I guess what I'm really asking is, does what medical school I go to matter? I want to go into research and academia, and possibly policy-making. If I go to a relatively "unknown" medical school, will that make it impossible for me to pursue the type of medicine I'm interested in?

 

[DrMidlife]

Okay, some weird news...After talking to some admissions people of colleges nearby (some where I have previously conducted research), I decided to go ahead and apply. They were really sympathetic and understanding of my situation and told me to apply and that an interview would be likely. I know it is crazy, but if I were to be accepted, should I take the offer? I guess what I'm really asking is, does what medical school I go to matter? I want to go into research and academia, and possibly policy-making. If I go to a relatively "unknown" medical school, will that make it impossible for me to pursue the type of medicine I'm interested in?

I have no idea what kind of program you're talking about or what your situation is. Your stats? Is this for an SMP or something else? At an MD or DO school?

Generally if you have GPA damage you need to be happy to get into a US MD or DO school, period. Look at residency match lists to see if a particular school's grads go places you might want to go, but your grades and board scores are going to determine your fate much more than your school's prestige.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Tossing myself to the wolves here...

cGPA- 3.2
sGPA- 2.8
MCAT - 27Q (shotgun decision, no studying)

I graduated from a well-known private university in physiology and developmental biology. Good ECs, could shadow more, absurd amounts of volunteering.

I got accepted to an optometry school for c/o 2015 then had a quarter-life crisis (goes to how how easy OD school is to get in to). Decided 2 months before I was set to move to pursue med school.

Knowing full well I screwed the pooch (metaphorically obviously) during UG I'm trying to decide between lot of undergrad retakes, SMP, or formal masters. Combination of undergrad and SMP? I'm fine with the D.O. route, haven't even bothered convincing myself I have a shot at M.D.

I've exhausted the upper-divisions (patho, histology, endocrinology, adv molecular) as part of my major. I've searched the forums and know my scenario has been explored billions of times...but I'm posting anyway.

With those stats you could theoretically get into a DO school, but in your shoes I'd wait to apply DO until I had a 31+ MCAT. Can't have both numbers below average.

If you want to go for MD, get a 31+ MCAT and get into an SMP that has strong host linkage (ie EVMS, Cincy, not Gtown).

You can always find more undergrad coursework. A big research university will have bacterial genomics and molecular virology and field vertebrate zoology etc. Getting that 2.8 up and over 3.0 would be worth it, before you retake the MCAT, and before you apply to SMPs, imho.

I think yours is a case that would benefit from a consultant to help you sell your story. Should you talk about optometry or not? What's your motivation for med school? Look at mededits or Judy Colwell. Just a suggestion, I'm not on commission. 🙂

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Thank you! Finally some good news!

Just one more question, if I can't get the grade change for Orgo Lab 1 should I just retake it? For the lecture I got a B, at my univ they have the grades separated for Organic, and the lab counts for 2 hrs credit.

Take the energy that you've put into petitioning that C+, and put that energy into figuring out how to work with what you're given and how to get nothing but A's.

Lack of success in prereqs will kill you on the MCAT. You have to learn the material. Learning material has to happen before you can do test prep. You could go take the biological sciences section of an MCAT practice test to see how you feel about an ochem lab retake. (www.e-mcat.com, first one's free)

Best of luck to you.

 

[davidb25]

Hey DrMidlife I was wondering what you thought about my situation:

I'm a senior and as of this fall semester I have a cGPA 2.56 and an sGPA 2.3, both GPA's largely effected by an F in Gen Chem 2. I have a slight-upward trend but nothing too special, I'm still struggling to figure out the best way to crank out A's, only problem is I ran out of time, it's my last semester.

What I was thinking of doing was applying to UT-Dallas Biomed Certificate in the spring so I could attend in the fall, though that assumes I'll get in. I plan on telling UT-dallas all about a couple unfortunate circumstances my freshman and sophomore year and I hope that will help them give me a shot at their program. Also, I'm a URM and while I don't like to say that it should help me, I thought I'd disclose it here incase you thought it might have weight in a state like Texas.

Does this sound logical, doing a post-bac of a year with such a low GPA? I think I'm on the cusp of realizing how to succeed in my classes as I had my best semester yet, 5 classes two A's, 3 B's this last semester. Assuming I get a ~3.6-3.7(unlikely, but I'm going to try like I've never tried before) gpa next semester, I'll graduate with ~2.7 cumulative. Assuming I get into this two semester post-bac, doing the math, I could theoretically have my cGPA approach 3.1 and sgpa approach 2.9.

I was thinking about studying for and taking the mcat the summer between my senior year of college and before first semester of the post-bac and hopefully getting ~31. Then broadly applying all over texas and to schools outside which may have special consideration for URM's like the GEMS program.

Does this sound logical? Too optomisitic? Any advice appreciated.

 

[thecgrblue]

I will tell you my experience...similar stats to what your 'scenario' outlines and I've got mostly rejections from DO schools at this point.

 

[DrMidlife]

I'm a senior and as of this fall semester I have a cGPA 2.56 and an sGPA 2.3, both GPA's largely effected by an F in Gen Chem 2. I have a slight-upward trend but nothing too special, I'm still struggling to figure out the best way to crank out A's, only problem is I ran out of time, it's my last semester.

Here's my way-below-3.0 cookbook: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11083370&postcount=3

What I was thinking of doing was applying to UT-Dallas Biomed Certificate in the spring so I could attend in the fall, though that assumes I'll get in. I plan on telling UT-dallas all about a couple unfortunate circumstances my freshman and sophomore year and I hope that will help them give me a shot at their program. Also, I'm a URM and while I don't like to say that it should help me, I thought I'd disclose it here incase you thought it might have weight in a state like Texas.

UTD is a good place to be, and keeping your Texas residency is a good idea. I suggest you need multiple more years of undergrad, which UTD should allow. Down the road, you'll probably need to take advantage of a program like Georgetown GEMS (URM/disadvantaged med school prep). I don't know of similar URM/disadvantaged programs in Texas.

Does this sound logical, doing a post-bac of a year with such a low GPA? I think I'm on the cusp of realizing how to succeed in my classes as I had my best semester yet, 5 classes two A's, 3 B's this last semester. Assuming I get a ~3.6-3.7(unlikely, but I'm going to try like I've never tried before) gpa next semester, I'll graduate with ~2.7 cumulative. Assuming I get into this two semester post-bac, doing the math, I could theoretically have my cGPA approach 3.1 and sgpa approach 2.9.

You need more than 1 additional undergrad year to get ready for the rigors of med school. Be thinking 2nd bachelors. UTD isn't the only option - it's just set up nicely for premeds.

I was thinking about studying for and taking the mcat the summer between my senior year of college and before first semester of the post-bac and hopefully getting ~31.

I don't like that schedule - it's too fast. Take the MCAT after you've completed another full time year of undergrad science at 3.7+. Before that happens, you're not on top of the MCAT subject material and not in a position to succeed.

Then broadly applying all over texas and to schools outside which may have special consideration for URM's like the GEMS program.

Yep. Don't put too much thought into applying to med school yet - you have a long row to hoe before it's time to apply.

Does this sound logical? Too optomisitic? Any advice appreciated.

I recommend taking it slow. Don't be in a hurry to get into med school. Given your GPA, I think it's a safe assumption that several more successful years in school, before med school, would make med school a reasonable place to be. Be very afraid of how hard med school is, and do everything you can to be ready. Be your own yardstick - pay no attention to how the other premeds are doing it. A premed with a way-below-3.0 doesn't get to follow the same rulebook as the high GPA kids.

Best of luck to you.

 

[futuredoc1215]

Currently taking a year off from my main four year campus and I am enrolled at a community college. I am also currently in the process of ARCing (adjusted resident credit, I take a year off and once I come back to my main campus, pass twelve credits, my GPA will be a 3.3). I currently have a 2.1 GPA and I am currently in my junior year (at the main campus). I am also taking science courses at the community college. My General Chemistry II final grade for this fall semester is a C. I am taking Organic Chemistry I and Human A&P II next spring. I am trying to get into a SMP or post-bacc program after I graduate. Any help guys? comments, advice?

Thanks in advance 🙂

Futuredoc1215

 

[DrMidlife]

Currently taking a year off from my main four year campus and I am enrolled at a community college. I am also currently in the process of ARCing (adjusted resident credit, I take a year off and once I come back to my main campus, pass twelve credits, my GPA will be a 3.3). I currently have a 2.1 GPA and I am currently in my junior year (at the main campus). I am also taking science courses at the community college. My General Chemistry II final grade for this fall semester is a C. I am taking Organic Chemistry I and Human A&P II next spring. I am trying to get into a SMP or post-bacc program after I graduate. Any help guys? comments, advice?

Stop taking classes. If you can't get A's, you can't go to med school. Figure out how to get A's before you do any more transcript damage. Get an A in a simpler math or English or history class before you try more science.

ARC doesn't count for med school admissions. Your college doesn't get to determine your GPA for medical school admissions. Med school admissions services (AMCAS, AACOMAS, TMDSAS) determine your GPA, and they have access to every course you've ever taken. For US MD schools (AMCAS), no grade forgiveness is allowed. For US DO schools (AACOMAS), old grades are forgiven when you retake. For TX MD/DO schools, unless you're a Texas resident, there is no grade forgiveness. If you're a Texas resident, you can try for "fresh start" which wipes out your entire academic record after 10 years, only good for TX residents and TX med schools.

More general info on what you have to do from way-below-3.0: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11083370&postcount=3

Best of luck to you.

 

[futuredoc1215]

Stop taking classes. If you can't get A's, you can't go to med school. Figure out how to get A's before you do any more transcript damage. Get an A in a simpler math or English or history class before you try more science.

ARC doesn't count for med school admissions. Your college doesn't get to determine your GPA for medical school admissions. Med school admissions services (AMCAS, AACOMAS, TMDSAS) determine your GPA, and they have access to every course you've ever taken. For US MD schools (AMCAS), no grade forgiveness is allowed. For US DO schools (AACOMAS), old grades are forgiven when you retake. For TX MD/DO schools, unless you're a Texas resident, there is no grade forgiveness. If you're a Texas resident, you can try for "fresh start" which wipes out your entire academic record after 10 years, only good for TX residents and TX med schools.
More general info on what you have to do from way-below-3.0: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=11083370&postcount=3

Best of luck to you.

I forgot to mention before I left my main campus I had a 3.5 GPA for that spring semester. I earned an A in an upper division public health course a B in my Bioethics course an another B in my criminal justice course and a C in my statistics course. I have a few A's in my English and History courses it was just my General Chemistry I and pre-cal courses that are terrible. I had a hard time adjusting to going to a four-year university and at the beginning of my junior year/ending of my sophomore year I decided to get with the program and start raising my GPA. I still have more classes to take for my major (health sciences/Nuclear Medicine Technologist). Also I would like to enroll in a special master's program before even contemplating completing medical school applications. If medical school is not an option, I would like to enroll in a special master's program, enroll in a graduate school major, and take it from there.

 

[bigloley]

Finally have the chance to post here 😀

Had a 2.2 GPA in 2006 after Freshman year. In 2008 talked to pre-med advisor about wanting to go to medical school - she said you won't ever get in and that I should choose a new career.

Strong upward undergrad trend, finished with a 3.2 Cum with a 2.9 sGPA. Volunteered, worked, had tons of EC's. Took MCAT, got a 30S.

Currently in a SMP and doing pretty well - received my first MD acceptance today.

If you want it enough, you can do it. It's going to be hard....lord knows how many times I wanted to quit because I was discouraged. Without the support of close friends and family, I would have given up a long time ago. I've been through so many obstacles and with many people telling me I won't ever get in to medical school. Proved them wrong 😀

Good luck everybody and don't give up 👍

 

[PikaPikaPika]

Finally have the chance to post here 😀

Had a 2.2 GPA in 2006 after Freshman year. In 2008 talked to pre-med advisor about wanting to go to medical school - she said you won't ever get in and that I should choose a new career.

Strong upward undergrad trend, finished with a 3.2 Cum with a 2.9 sGPA. Volunteered, worked, had tons of EC's. Took MCAT, got a 30S.

Currently in a SMP and doing pretty well - received my first MD acceptance today.

If you want it enough, you can do it. It's going to be hard....lord knows how many times I wanted to quit because I was discouraged. Without the support of close friends and family, I would have given up a long time ago. I've been through so many obstacles and with many people telling me I won't ever get in to medical school. Proved them wrong 😀

Good luck everybody and don't give up 👍

Thank you so much! Gives me hope that I will someday get into med school, in face of career counselors telling me to give up and choose another profession.

 

[futuredoc1215]

Finally have the chance to post here 😀

Had a 2.2 GPA in 2006 after Freshman year. In 2008 talked to pre-med advisor about wanting to go to medical school - she said you won't ever get in and that I should choose a new career.

Strong upward undergrad trend, finished with a 3.2 Cum with a 2.9 sGPA. Volunteered, worked, had tons of EC's. Took MCAT, got a 30S.

Currently in a SMP and doing pretty well - received my first MD acceptance today.

If you want it enough, you can do it. It's going to be hard....lord knows how many times I wanted to quit because I was discouraged. Without the support of close friends and family, I would have given up a long time ago. I've been through so many obstacles and with many people telling me I won't ever get in to medical school. Proved them wrong 😀

Good luck everybody and don't give up 👍

Thanks for the inspiration bigloley!!! 🙂 My junior year GPA is 2.14 🙁 and I really would like to get accepted into a SMP once I graduate from college. If not I would like to gain my master's in biology from my main campus. It's going to be a very long road and hopefully I can rehabilitate my GPA before I graduate.

 

[deleted248403]

Had a 2.2 GPA in 2006 after Freshman year. In 2008 talked to pre-med advisor about wanting to go to medical school - she said you won't ever get in and that I should choose a new career.

Strong upward undergrad trend, finished with a 3.2 Cum with a 2.9 sGPA. Volunteered, worked, had tons of EC's. Took MCAT, got a 30S.

Currently in a SMP and doing pretty well - received my first MD acceptance today.

My junior year GPA is 2.14 🙁 and I really would like to get accepted into a SMP once I graduate from college. If not I would like to gain my master's in biology from my main campus. It's going to be a very long road and hopefully I can rehabilitate my GPA before I graduate.

I want to point out the huge difference between these two cases;
bigloley had a bad GPA after 1 year, but apparently finished strong over the last 3 years, then went to an SMP and got a solid MCAT.
futuredoc1215 has a bad GPA after 3 years - this is going to be near on impossible to recover from.

So while bigloley clearly has done well and turned the corner (congrats by the way), these two scenarios are very very very different. If you haven't turned the corner and you are a junior/senior/graduated then you can expect a much harder road to med school if you get in at all.

 

[bigloley]

I want to point out the huge difference between these two cases;
bigloley had a bad GPA after 1 year, but apparently finished strong over the last 3 years, then went to an SMP and got a solid MCAT.
futuredoc1215 has a bad GPA after 3 years - this is going to be near on impossible to recover from.

So while bigloley clearly has done well and turned the corner (congrats by the way), these two scenarios are very very very different. If you haven't turned the corner and you are a junior/senior/graduated then you can expect a much harder road to med school if you get in at all.

Exactly - it took me a LONG time to get my GPA over 3 after my freshman year (got a D+ in Intro to Bio.....yikes). You have to be realistic in your goals - it was extremely stressful to go through the rest of college and my current SMP knowing that I had no safety net - if I did poorly there was no turning back.

In my Freshman year I just messed up - no excuses. But even later on, I knew that I wasn't performing up to my potential - it wasn't until I finally started my SMP did I really learn the best way to study for myself. I am now rocking the program and consistently scoring above 1 standard deviation from the medical school average on every test. If you are getting bad grades, you need to learn how to LEARN. Everyone is different. Even when I put in a ton of effort I wasn't able to get that A in undergrad (i still got C's in orgo in my junior year). Now I'm 100% sure that if I redid my college years and I would get close to a 4.0 and I would have performed even better on my MCAT. You have to adapt to yourself and be able to learn and study the best way for yourself.

Bottom line: You need to figure out why your GPA is low - and you need to fix that.

If you are really determined on becoming a doctor with a low GPA, you need to make yourself stand out. I've worked and volunteered thousands of hours in order to set myself apart from the average applicant. You need to make sure every other part of your application is absolutely stellar.

This cycle I applied super early to 30+ schools and received 3 interview invites (and 1 is from my SMP school). Those two other schools took a risk on me because they think that I can perform well in medical school - you need to be able to demonstrate that to schools.

It is a huge uphill battle, but when you succeed it is worth it. Being able to prove all the naysayers wrong is extremely satisfying 😀

Use my story for inspiration; I got accepted to an US MD school with a 2.87 sGPA. But it was NOT EASY. I had a sub 2.0 sGPA after my freshman year. I worked my butt off to bring my GPA up and I had stellar EC's. I also had to do an SMP and perform extremely well in it. It is hard, but not impossible.

Good luck everyone! 👍

 

[futuredoc1215]

If getting into medical school is damn near impossible, then my second choice/passion would be to work in the Biomedical Engineering, Biotechnology, Bioinformatics, or Biodefense sector. I was wondering if getting accepted into an SMP would help me get accepted into a graduate school.

 

[deleted248403]

If getting into medical school is damn near impossible, then my second choice/passion would be to work in the Biomedical Engineering, Biotechnology, Bioinformatics, or Biodefense sector. I was wondering if getting accepted into an SMP would help me get accepted into a graduate school.

An SMP is grad school..... and with a 2.14 cGPA, any form of grad school is going to be a bit of stretch. A solid C average indicates you haven't quite mastered undergrad work yet

 

[futuredoc1215]

An SMP is grad school..... and with a 2.14 cGPA, any form of grad school is going to be a bit of stretch. A solid C average indicates you haven't quite mastered undergrad work yet

I definitely do not plan on keeping my GPA at 2.14 I would like to graduate with a 3.0 or a 2.8/2.9 I still have a lot of classes to take before I get accepted into the health sciences program at my school and then more classes. If anyone as any suggestions please feel free to drop me a line, I am all ears. 🙂

 

[deleted248403]

I definitely do not plan on keeping my GPA at 2.14 I would like to graduate with a 3.0 or a 2.8/2.9 I still have a lot of classes to take before I get accepted into the health sciences program at my school and then more classes. If anyone as any suggestions please feel free to drop me a line, I am all ears. 🙂

Have you tried doing the math for this? There is diminishing returns after you've taken so many credits.

Put all your grades and credits into excel (or the spreadsheet floating around on the web, and no, i'm not going to link it - you can use google as well as i can). Then forecast another, 30, 45, and 60 credits - and you'll see even with a 4.0 it won't change your grade much.

Some back of the envelope math - 90 completed credits at 2.14, and 30 credits (your senior yr) at 4.0 gives you a 2.6 cGPA. Add another yr of something (so now 60 credits at 4.0) gives you a 2.88. You'd have to take yet another year (90 credits total from now) at 4.0 to get a 3.07.

As you can see, that cGPA of 3.0 is going to be pretty tough for you to get (3 years of 4.0 work; making your undergrad last 6 years...). You are going to have to overnight go from a solid C student to an A student. Every semester you aren't at 4.0, the cGPA of 3.0 becomes less likely.

 

[common man]

this spring i'm taking

neuro 221 development / plasticity / repair (3 cr)
neuro 222 neurobiology of disease (3 cr)
neuro 332 cellular & and molecular neuroscience (3 cr)
chem 102 general chemistry II lab (1 cr)

MCAT study to take test in April
volunteering at hospital
this is 10 credits total without any fluff.

questions...1) does this count as a full load of science classes? 2) can my 200 level neuroscience classes count as upper level? i ask these questions out of curiosity. regardless, i'm only going to take on a workload that gives me time to nail the mcat and get the 4.0 semester.

 

[A Deep Breath]

I sure hope it's an exception that a C isn't accepted by med schools.

My experience with Nova, on the DO side, in 2008, was that long after my acceptance there, when my transcripts were reviewed, in like June, I was notifed that my prereqs weren't complete because I had a C in ochem. If I hadn't taken biochem, and Nova hadn't been willing to take that as a substitute, I would have had to scramble to retake ochem at the last minute. (I retook ochem before moving on to EVMS, so I have no MD-side experience with that C.)

Regardless, whether or not schools will take a prereq C, self-acceptance of a C is naive. That isn't a level of performance consistent with competence, nor does it allow for efficient MCAT prep. Multiple C's, or an early C, are just not good, period.

Best of luck to you.

While planning my post-bacc courses, I had to decide which pre-reqs to retake. My non-comprehensive research revealed that many medical schools' websites (e.g. Cincinnati) don't explicitly state a prereq grade cutoff, but those that do (e.g. EVMS) want a C or better. Even NOVA currently seems to accept Cs according to their website. Based on what I found, I decided that I would forgo retaking those prereqs in which I earned a C or better. My interpretation of your greatly appreciated gpa comeback advice was that my time would be better spent acing upper division biology courses, so I did.

I'm in the process of applying to Fall 2012 SMPs with a 2.9-3.0/35+. It looks like I now need to decide whether to drop several upper division bio courses next semester to retake Cs from a decade ago in gen chem and introductory bio. What do you suggest I do? Has anyone else experienced a school unwilling to accept a C in a prereq?

As an aside for those in a similar position who have yet to take the MCAT, I completely agree with DrMidlife's above comments regarding the inadequacy of a C in a prereq with regard to MCAT prep. Looking back, I would have been better off retaking the introductory biology series so that all of my hard work to essentially learn the material from scratch would have at least contributed to my gpa.

 

[Kentobari]

Hi all,

I'm finishing up two soul-wringing years of PC village life (and might extend to do HIV education activities) and have been considering a post-bacc pre-med route.

BA Anthropology, Bio minor

GPA 2.8, 159 credit hours (read: will not budge)
Senior Honors Thesis in Anthropology on epilepsy research

I'm relatively certain that if I apply myself, I can shoot over to Harvard Extension or an SMP program and do a few semesters of 4.0 work, and then we'll see about the MCAT.

But would it be worth it? Would I be racking up debt to get into second-rate schools or no schools at all? I've scoured these forums and read uccessful comeback stories, but it's hard to feel confident. Should I resign myself to other pathways to a career in international health (MD is one of many, but would be my highest ambition)?

Actually, I guess those questions are silly to post here. I apologize for one of many please-review-my-stats threads, but I would like some perspective on the weight of my Peace Corps service in particular.

 

[DrMidlife]

GPA 2.8, 159 credit hours (read: will not budge)
Senior Honors Thesis in Anthropology on epilepsy research

The most important thing in your med school app will be your MCAT, because all of your academic record will be on display, and you need to give reviewers a reason to look hard at your app despite red flags on your transcripts. Average MCAT for US MD schools is 31-32. I suggest that you should see what your cold score is, on a practice exam, pretty soon, so that you can make some guesses on how much review & prep you need. People have disagreed with me on this, but imho your verbal score is 1) the best general predictor of your full score and 2) the hardest number to change. First one's free on www.e-mcat.com. Take the MCAT once and only once with your best possible score.

The second most important thing in your med school app will be a lengthy academic redemption, where you show a powerful, compelling counterexample to your 2.8, giving admissions committees confidence that you have endurance and can thrive in very difficult coursework over multiple years.

With both MCAT & GPA, your numbers need to start with a 3 before you apply to med school.

I'm relatively certain that if I apply myself, I can shoot over to Harvard Extension or an SMP program and do a few semesters of 4.0 work, and then we'll see about the MCAT.

Couple things on this:
- before you start taking classes full time, start slow, with a single math or English class. If you get an A, proceed. If you don't, figure out how badly you want to change yourself to become an A student before you start the pain of med school.
- see how much 3.7 coursework would get your cumulative GPA up over 4.0. Probably 2 years of full time coursework. If you do mostly science in that 2 years, then your science GPA could be fantastic.
- consider doing a 2nd bachelors, to get the large volume of coursework you need, to get registration priority, to get financial aid.

An SMP is what you can do after you've succeeded on the MCAT, after you've done all you can with undergrad. Note: you need a good MCAT score to apply to a good SMP.

Looks to me like 3-4 years before you start med school, where years 1&2 are more undergrad, year 3 is SMP, year 4 is your app year during which you can be working. If you want to go faster than that, look at DO schools. Please don't look at Carib schools.

But would it be worth it? Would I be racking up debt to get into second-rate schools or no schools at all? I've scoured these forums and read uccessful comeback stories, but it's hard to feel confident. Should I resign myself to other pathways to a career in international health (MD is one of many, but would be my highest ambition)?

These are good questions to ask. Generally, if there's any career other than medicine in which you'd be happy, then for the love of all that's holy, do the other career. Med school from a GPA comeback is pretty ridiculous, and no, there are no guarantees. Right now, your best predictor of success in med school admissions is your ability (or possible unfortunate inability) to get straight A's for multiple terms.

Second rate schools are what you might find in the Carib, but on US soil, an accredited med school (MD or DO) is going to put up no unforeseen barriers to your career. Look for residency match lists from schools that you consider second rate or low tier. You'll see grads from these schools matching to institutions you've heard of (Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, UCSF etc). Your performance determines your fate. Is it "better" to go to Harvard? Sure, but that's not on the table from a sub-3.0.

Finances are a great thing to worry about on a GPA comeback. Focus on public schools that have cheap tuition. Consider moving to Texas...

Actually, I guess those questions are silly to post here. I apologize for one of many please-review-my-stats threads, but I would like some perspective on the weight of my Peace Corps service in particular.

We don't have many RPCV med students or physicians in practice in this forum, but you'll find plenty if you look around. I think Jolie South is still active.

Best of luck to you.

 

[HipChick]

Hello!
I'm a 32 year old who has finally decided, with support of family, friends, and our community, to take the plunge. Im not very far along, however slowly getting there.

BS Sports Medicine/Athletic Training 2003, 3.43 (I graduated with 174 credits, needed 130... I REALLY liked taking classes, never worried about GPA)
Senior honors research and national presentations

MS Sports Administration 2011 2.98/3.2
because I did what I thought I should do not what I wanted. It took me 7 years to complete. I was working fulltime an hour+ from the university, had surgeries 03,05,06,07(preemie baby), 08,09,10,11 and by the time I found that I really loved medicine, i was 3/4 of the way done. No way was I giving up. The courses I did the best in were biomechanics, research methods, growth/maturation... The 3.2 is the required 30 credits for my degree. I didnt drop a course in time. No thesis, I did a policy and procedure manual for my Athletic Training room.

So now here I am, I have a few prereq/look nice courses from my undergrad under my belt that I plan to/have retaken

Physics 1- B
Chem 1 B+ (2000) B+ (2010)
Bio C (2000, I took this at a community college and needed a C for credit to transfer, so I got a C. I didnt even take the final)

human Anat A
human Phys B
Nutrition A
Applied Phys and Kines B+
work Phys B
pharmo A-
patho C- (had a miscarriage while class was in session...)

we also have to take courses like assessment, research, med term, health care admin. and on my own i took couses like health implications of obesity, alcohol abuse, research writing

I plant to retake Physics 1 and I know i'll get an A, also plan to retake bio (ugg such a horrid boring course I'll get an A).

I've been a certified athletic trainer for 9 years, so lots of patient contact, sometimes more than I want. Some in the Sports medicine clinic doing rehab, most in the athletic training room with my athletes. I've shadowed two PAs (fm, ortho), two orthos/sports med, and have access to a large group of orthos, obgyn, family med, emerg med, etc

Im wondering if chugging away at my courses at a local cc is a better choice than a second degree in bio? So many choices... Any other advice?

 

[Kentobari]

These are good questions to ask. Generally, if there's any career other than medicine in which you'd be happy, then for the love of all that's holy, do the other career.

Well that is impossible to know, of course. Before Peace Corps I was really into looking at med anth and combined anthropology/MPH programs. And I do still think preventive health education and interventions are where the effort needs to be. However, an MD has skills to teah and apply as well as heavy credentials (which are 10 times more valuable in other countries) that you just can't get with other graduate degrees. Combined PA with a higher degree in anth or public health? Maybe. Still taking the time to consider these multiple pathways.

 

[DrMidlife]

Im wondering if chugging away at my courses at a local cc is a better choice than a second degree in bio? So many choices...

No, don't do CC coursework. You have a decent amount of academic credibility with a 3.43, but CC coursework would throw doubt on that. So would online coursework.

There are more choices than CC and 2nd bachelors, and much more interesting science majors than bio. If you do lots of reading in this forum, you'll see folks doing things like Harvard Extension and other non-degree university work. I doubt you will need an SMP, so I suggest not looking at those at this point.

I'm concerned that the science courses you've already taken aren't the premedical courses. They look like the pre-nursing courses. Also, health professions coursework doesn't count as science in med school admissions. Look for a school's premed advising page to confirm you're taking the right classes. "Right" is defined as "will prepare you for the MCAT". Generally you need a full year, with labs, of physics/genchem/ochem/bio. Many schools expect biochem and/or cell bio as well as humanities, statistics, calculus etc.

Any other advice?

Undergrad and grad GPAs aren't combined. For med school admissions, you're a 3.43, with a very compelling story during grad school. 3.43 isn't that bad (3.6 is average). Your MCAT score needs to be above average (31+).

You won't be anywhere near the oldest student in med school. Visit the nontrad forum and you'll find other parents, other athletic trainers, and people starting med school at 52.

Best of luck to you.

 

[HipChick]

No, don't do CC coursework. You have a decent amount of academic credibility with a 3.43, but CC coursework would throw doubt on that. So would online coursework.

There are more choices than CC and 2nd bachelors, and much more interesting science majors than bio. If you do lots of reading in this forum, you'll see folks doing things like Harvard Extension and other non-degree university work. I doubt you will need an SMP, so I suggest not looking at those at this point.

I'm concerned that the science courses you've already taken aren't the premedical courses. They look like the pre-nursing courses. Also, health professions coursework doesn't count as science in med school admissions. Look for a school's premed advising page to confirm you're taking the right classes. "Right" is defined as "will prepare you for the MCAT". Generally you need a full year, with labs, of physics/genchem/ochem/bio. Many schools expect biochem and/or cell bio as well as humanities, statistics, calculus etc.

Undergrad and grad GPAs aren't combined. For med school admissions, you're a 3.43, with a very compelling story during grad school. 3.43 isn't that bad (3.6 is average). Your MCAT score needs to be above average (31+).

You won't be anywhere near the oldest student in med school. Visit the nontrad forum and you'll find other parents, other athletic trainers, and people starting med school at 52.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you. Yup I know the majority of my course work isn't hard sciences, but I'm sure banking on them helping me if I get into med school. The sciences are what I am taking locally at the CC (or retaking) primarily because of budget. a non degree wouldn't allow me to obtain a federal loan to pursue, so its degree or CC :/ If I might ask, why would CC throw doubt on my previous GPA?

Im also under the impression that my undergrad GPA can be boostered by the current courses that I have and will take. Is this correct? I know that my C in bio will be an A, and I can probably get an A in Physics where I had a B I believe. Micro will be an A as well as chem 2, now physic 2 and Orgos... yeah humm right...

The husband wants me to quit my job and just hammer out the courses. Im not opposed to that but want the income to supplement the courses that I still need to take.

I've been speaking with advisors (who generally I find worthless compared to those that are actually IN the thick), and they suggested either CC or second degree, financially. I'll research these other options that were suggested, but I am very new in the premed game.

Thank you so much for the ideas... feel free to keep em coming 😉

 

[DrMidlife]

why would CC throw doubt on my previous GPA?

CC's are a contentious issue here on SDN, and there are certainly people who will say "by all means do coursework at a CC, it's practical, it's inexpensive, and everybody knows that the quality of instruction is just as good."

I think that advice applies when you have a high GPA in undergrad before you do CC work - you have nothing to prove. Or, if you do your first two years of college at a CC before you move on to university - you prove yourself at university. But with a 3.43 at university, a subsequent high GPA at a CC says you went looking for easy A's, and found them.

Im also under the impression that my undergrad GPA can be boostered by the current courses that I have and will take. Is this correct?

That's correct. On med school apps, you'll get a table that highlights your cumulative overall undergrad GPA and cumulative undergrad science GPA. There are breakdown lines for fr/so/jr/sr/pb. On a separate line, you'll see grad GPAs. (A GPA from a transcript is irrelevant - only the app service calculations matter.)

Point being, cumulative undergrad GPA will include the coursework you're about to take.

I know that my C in bio will be an A, and I can probably get an A in Physics where I had a B I believe. Micro will be an A as well as chem 2, now physic 2 and Orgos... yeah humm right...

You're making me nervous by calling out grades you'll be getting. Again, I don't think you took the med school prerequisite science courses. I think you took the pre-nursing versions. The pre-med coursework is more difficult. Also, microbiology isn't a med school prereq (good to have, no point in retaking).

The husband wants me to quit my job and just hammer out the courses. Im not opposed to that but want the income to supplement the courses that I still need to take.

If you can get A's without quitting your job or losing your mind, then keep working while you take classes. If you can't get A's, then it's a bad strategy.

I've been speaking with advisors (who generally I find worthless compared to those that are actually IN the thick), and they suggested either CC or second degree, financially. I'll research these other options that were suggested, but I am very new in the premed game.

It takes a huge amount of initiative and energy for premed advisers to do the work to find out what med schools are doing with admissions. They don't get paid enough to have that kind of initiative or energy, and they usually have to take care of the engineering etc. majors too. They have to follow a recipe.

A 2nd bachelors is the most convenient way to play. You can't get free money like Pell grants for a 2nd degree, and federal loans are limited to $12,500 per year...but at least you're eligible for some student loans. You get registration priority and better access to resources (which may or may not matter).

You could also look into the formal premed postbac programs, such as Bryn Mawr, Goucher, Scripps. Your GPA is on the low side, but you might have some luck. These programs are expensive, but they get you done in a year.

Location matters a lot as well. If you're in California, the competition is so intense that you have to amp your assets much more.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you'll likely need a gap year, or more, after finishing school. If you can finish coursework in April, in addition to getting MCAT prep done, and you can take the MCAT in April or May, then you're reasonably early with a late June or early July med school app. And then you wait for a year (assuming you get accepted) before med school starts. If you need more time for MCAT prep, then you'll likely have 2 years between finishing prereqs and starting med school. Does it make a difference for your planning if you know you can work for a couple years after doing prereqs?

Best of luck to you.

 

[HipChick]

You're making me nervous by calling out grades you'll be getting. Again, I don't think you took the med school prerequisite science courses. I think you took the pre-nursing versions. The pre-med coursework is more difficult. Also, microbiology isn't a med school prereq (good to have, no point in retaking).

Nope Physics 1 as well as chem 1 and bio1 were the preqs for premed/PA not the watered down baby versions.

For the four med schools I am looking at, a full year of general bio with lab is expected. Hence why im retaking general bio (not micro) to enhance that C to an A. i have no doubt in my ability to achieve good grades in the forementioned courses, phy 1, chem 2, bio, however the other courses...

There is only one postbacc premed in Michigan (where I am located) and it is 2.5 hours away 🙁

I guess I'm just hoping that I am a better student that I was entering college 13 years ago. But we'll see...

I truly appreciate your point of view. Its not that i found the advisors not helpful, just indifferent. i think they too are suffering from burn out so your ideas are very very helpful to all of us!!

 

[johnnyscans]

Nope Physics 1 as well as chem 1 and bio1 were the preqs for premed/PA not the watered down baby versions.

For the four med schools I am looking at, a full year of general bio with lab is expected. Hence why im retaking general bio (not micro) to enhance that C to an A. i have no doubt in my ability to achieve good grades in the forementioned courses, phy 1, chem 2, bio, however the other courses...

There is only one postbacc premed in Michigan (where I am located) and it is 2.5 hours away 🙁

I guess I'm just hoping that I am a better student that I was entering college 13 years ago. But we'll see...

I truly appreciate your point of view. Its not that i found the advisors not helpful, just indifferent. i think they too are suffering from burn out so your ideas are very very helpful to all of us!!

My advice: don't jump into things too quickly. The last thing you want is to be working and enrolled in 8-12 credits only to find that you can't earn A's with the load. Your priority is getting A's.

 

[vchou]

Hello, and Happy New Years everyone!
I've posted here once and gotten a quick reply drizzt3177, which I am thankful for, but I need more help! Here again is my situation:

-3.18 BCPM, 3.33 cumulative at Northwestern University, graduated Spring 2011 with BA in psychology, but took premed courses and several upper level biology electives. There is only a minor upward trend in grades from freshman to senior year, no big comeback.
-taking MCATs 1/28/12, trying for 35+
-researched at NU Feinberg 1.5 years
-volunteer in recovery room at Mt Sinai 6hrs/week
-shadowing cardiologist once a month
-NU Boxing Club captain (competing at Chicago Golden Gloves this spring!)
-grew up in NY but parents moved to CA during college, but I currently live in IL.

I am going to take biochemistry at UIC this spring as a non-degree graduate student UC Irvine requires biochem. I originally planned to take at least 11 credits (which is the credit cut off before I pay full tuition) to boost my GPA, but I don't want to because: 1) classes start 1/9/12 so it would interfere with my MCAT studying and 2) of course, more classes = more tuition.

I want to start applying as early as possible this year, so I don't think I can put off biochem and possibly more courses for summer. I plan to apply for full-time technician job in Chicago as soon as I finish MCATs, so another reason I'd rather I am reluctant to postpone taking classes.

From what I see on this thread, it seems UC schools don't really appreciate GPA comebacks as much as other adcoms might. Do you guys believe it is truly necessary to take more courses than just biochem? Am I naive in thinking I have a fighting chance with my current grades and a good MCAT score (plus an A in biochem at UIC)?

Also, I'm not entirely sure of my residency situation (grew up in NY, parents in CA, currently living in IL). My parents want me to go to med school in CA, but I know these states are among the most competitive (if I remember correctly in the post by DrMidlife, around .05 seats per applicant). Assuming I can choose my state residency, which I would have to look up the policy on this, which state should I apply for?

Thank you for any advice and insight, and I'm sorry if I've asked anything that may have already been covered!

 

[Isoprop]

Concentrate on your MCAT. I would postpone taking biochem. It's only required at a few schools, and with your GPA, getting into a CA school is a long shot. You need to take a shotgun approach and apply to a wide range of schools.

You could always take biochem next year during your application cycle just in case you get accepted, but biochem is a low priority. Do your best to KILL the MCAT.

Out of NY, CA, and IL, I think IL has the best in-state preference. CA residency is terrible and NY is friendly to OOSers. But double check with the MSAR/school websites to be sure.

Just one man's opinion.

 

[vchou]

Thanks for the response Isoprop. I haven't thought about taking biochem during applications. Unfortunately they already billed me 3k for the class (which I thought would only cost me 1700, its amazing the random bills and fees they can throw on top of tuition), even though it hasn't even started yet. I'll have to talk to them if I can get out of the class, but I still need to think about whether or not I should stick with it. I also need another LOR, so I was planning on getting it from this biochem prof. I don't think the class will distract me too much from MCAT studying because I dont think we'll have midterms before the exam, 1/28, and a lot of the beginning concepts should be review (considering I took and dropped biochemistry at Northwestern after the 4th week).

As far as the MCAT, I've just taken my third diagnostic today. Got a 23 on the free Kaplan (while I was dogsitting for my friend's new puppy--wasn't able to focus much at all with the guy jumping on me every 2 seconds), 31 on AAMC 3, and 33 on AAMC 4. I plan to do another 9 FL's, almost every other day, until the exam. Hopefully I won't burn out. But I'm just stressing about whether or not I truly need to boost my GPA.

 

[Sakeena]

I am not sure if it is a right place to ask the question, but here is the situation.
I am graduating this August from Canadian University and my stats are really not good enough for this coming app cycle, but I want to try to submit the application for couple of SMPs and mid-low tier schools just to see how the process goes and familiarize myself with AMCAS application etc, while improving my stats. Is it a good idea or being a re-applicant next year will change smth for me?