The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

[DrMidlife]

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I really appreciate the feedback. I did the math and I can still get A's. The next exams will be important though. Physics professor will replace our test grade with our next lowest grade. Math professor weights heavily towards the end plus I didn't do that poorly on the math exam. The questions I missed were because I didn't spend enough time on the material in the last section covered. The previous sections I was doing just fine.
All in all physics is the most challenging so I need time to go through lots of problems. I decided to cut work down to one night a week. Also, I will try to work harder.

My experience with calc & physics (in which I started with C's and got up to A's) was that I needed to work every problem at the back of the chapter to get enough practice to be ready for exams. (If your course doesn't require a textbook, get the professor to tell you what to use.) These courses are about work ethic. If you're able to get yourself to keep working problems long after you stop wanting to, that will set you up nicely for med school.

Best of luck to you.

 

[scarshapedstar]

My experience with calc & physics (in which I started with C's and got up to A's) was that I needed to work every problem at the back of the chapter to get enough practice to be ready for exams. (If your course doesn't require a textbook, get the professor to tell you what to use.) These courses are about work ethic. If you're able to get yourself to keep working problems long after you stop wanting to, that will set you up nicely for med school.

Best of luck to you.

I second this. You might also try to find a PDF of another physics book online and do all the problems in it. Solutions manuals can be very helpful, too.

 

[Enzyme1]

^How can one start in calc above C's as you stated you eventually transitioned out of it? I know its relative but did you work a lot with the book, lecture, any specific strategies?

 

[DrNunes]

Thought I would throw this into the thread for anyone wondering what an average MCAT score is, for previous years anyways.

You can find all the MCAT score statics including score distribution from 2000-2010.

https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/admissionsadvisors/mcat_stats/

 

[DrMidlife]

Thought I would throw this into the thread for anyone wondering what an average MCAT score is, for previous years anyways.

You can find all the MCAT score statics including score distribution from 2000-2010.

https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/admissionsadvisors/mcat_stats/

Allow me to point out that these graphs represent 82,000 test attempts, including lots of folks who will never apply to med school. (About 45,000 people apply to med school, and about 22,000 get in, including MD and DO). So 25 is average for everybody who takes the test.

MCAT scores for people who apply/matriculate are here, table 17 and higher: https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/. For 2010, applicant average is 28.3, and matriculant average is 31.1.

Also of note, on the MCAT stats page, you can see the outcomes for retakes. Note that the average retake, by section, does not result in a better score, and quite frequently results in a lower score.

DO numbers are less transparent, but you can find some data here: http://www.aacom.org/data/Pages/default.aspx. AACOM doesn't publish comprehensive credential data on its app cycle, as does AAMC, but the 25% of people who responded to a poll in 2010 show a 27.5 average acceptee MCAT. This is the most current report: http://www.aacom.org/data/applicantsmatriculants/Documents/2011-Applicants.pdf

 

[tierras]

jhj

 

[deleted248403]

Now my science gpa is a whopping 1.99. I took one class outside of my post bacc and I got a W in the class because I had to withdraw. Like I said I just wanted your opinion on the situation. It will take me forever to get my gpa up to even a 3.0 at this point with all As. I am working with my pre-med advisor on all this also. Not going to medical school isn't an option.

The two bolded things seem to be in opposition to each other.

Pick a different career - your sGPA states you clearly can't handle undergrad science; you've got no chance at medical school level science. You have demonstrated repeatedly (by getting 2Ds and then a B- in gen chem for ex) that even on your best day, you cannot perform in science classes to the level expected of a med student.

 

[tierras]

d

 

[deleted248403]

Rob that is your opinion. I'm going to medical school. Please don't tell me what I can't and can handle thank you.

You aren't and you won't; make sure you come back in 5 years or whenever you realize you aren't and tell us that we told you so.

Your GPA is clear cut; you are fooling yourself and wasting time and $$$; three tries to pass Gen Chem? Really? Med school is an awful lot harder than that.

You can't even point to one bad year, or two bad years - its a life-time of bad years; nothing here suggests you can get an acceptable MCAT or thrive under med school.

Pick a diff career and stop lying to yourself; the quicker you do that, the more $$ and time you save

*edit* - and now you update your original post to remove your stats? Good job; that shows me that deep down you agree with me. If you really though I was wrong and alone in thinking so, you'd leave it there for others to agree with you (and to disagree with me).

 

[tierras]

d

 

[DrMidlife]

I can and I will. You are wrong on that for sure. In five years I will be posting about how I am in medical school. I'm not wasting time nor money. I know how hard med school is and I don't need you to tell me that. Just because there is nothing to suggest it doesn't mean I won't get an acceptable MCAT score. I will thrive in medical school.

I going to achieve my goals whether someone on a student says so or not.

You have to convince a med school admissions committee that you are a better bet than other well-qualified candidates.

That committee has to deal with students who drop out, remediate, fail boards, and/or can't get a residency. Such students make it difficult for the med school to maintain its accreditation. It takes a million bucks per year to make a med student - lots more than you pay for your education - so it's a highly risk-averse admissions process. Med school is harder than undergrad, and a poor performance in undergrad does not give admissions committees confidence. Risky candidates are perceived as risky because faculty fear remediators, dropouts and board-non-passers. Thus the admissions committee does not choose risky candidates.

You are an extremely risky candidate for med school. You are not getting in on charm or back-story or prayer. If you want to go to med school, then you need to become a not-risky candidate. You need to be the candidate that old farts (like me) want to fight for, over the finest specimens of flawless youthful ambition.

At this point, getting into med school would be awful for you. It would suck. You will not thrive. You have shown no evidence that you can handle a heavy all-science courseload. Until you get straight A's in a full time load of all science courses that you haven't taken before, you should not have any confidence.

Those are your marching orders: go get straight A's in a heavy load of science courses that you haven't taken before.

After that: do it again.

Until then: you have no credibility in talking about being a doctor.

Best of luck to you.

 

[tierras]

d

 

[uoka]

Hello, low-gpa-brethren. I'm planning to join your ranks in the spring by starting a DIY post-bacc with a 2.8 cGPA and a 2.1 sGPA. Luckily for me, I only have 41 hours of BCPM, and most of it's math; I have a C in Gen Chem I and a B in Bio II. Based on my calculations, 40 hours or so of As in science will get both my GPAs over 3.0. I do plan on retaking Chem I (mostly because I took it in 2004). I got some golden advice in the non-trad forums about my course load for my first semester in 4 years and am going to start off slowly, and with my strengths: memorization and regurgitation with Bio I.

With grade replacement, both my GPAs are slightly higher. I have an upward trend that actually sinks for my senior year (>91 hours). I switched majors, and then switched back to have one more go at that brick wall, and it crushed my trend. I went from a 3.7 junior year gpa to a 3.2, just to learn that computer science really isn't my thing. 🙄

I have a few questions I didn't want to start a new thread for that are somewhat related to my dismal gpa.

I have the "year of college math" that a majority of schools seem to want... Calc I with a C, Finite Math with a B. I have an F and a W in Calc II, however. Should I retake this? I think I will do fine because the school I attended combined Calc II with Linear Algebra and it was as ridiculous as I was unmotivated. But if retaking isn't worth the effort, I'd rather skip it, for my strengths lie not in math. And for this reason, retaking my other sub B classes isn't a good option for me; all of them are computer science.

Also, how likely is it for my Psychology statistics "Research Methods and Analysis" to count as math? If it doesn't, my poor sGPA is lower than 2.1. >_<

Last question: I graduated from a well-known, ranked research university. The school I am going to for my post-bacc is a "state college" that was accredited in 2008. It offers only 4 year degrees, so I know it's not a community college (right?!), but will it raise more red flags for me to attend? I live near enough to my alma mater to attend there, but it's more than twice as expensive and in the city. 😡 @ traffic.

Thanks for reading, thanks in advance for advice, and good luck to everyone who's working hard~

 

[BenjaminTM12]

I want to get anyone's opinion about the significance of a high MCAT score coupled with a low GPA.

Is there a score high enough to make up for a low GPA, say, 2.5? What about a 3.0?

I'm applying to a number of SMPs next year, and I am just wondering at what MCAT score the "Wow, forget your GPA this MCAT score shows you can play ball!" point is reached.

 

[DrMidlife]

I have an F and a W in Calc II, however. Should I retake this? I think I will do fine because the school I attended combined Calc II with Linear Algebra and it was as ridiculous as I was unmotivated. But if retaking isn't worth the effort, I'd rather skip it, for my strengths lie not in math. And for this reason, retaking my other sub B classes isn't a good option for me; all of them are computer science.

You need to explain any academic anomalies when you apply, and you may be asked about them during interviews. Your grades in the prereqs are more interesting than retakes in CS. For now, I would assume you can leave these classes in the past.

The thing is, your grades aren't going to suddenly be straight A's now that A's matter. Bio and chem and physics are very difficult, and you're up against the shiny perky overachievers who have never gotten anything but A's.

Point being, while it would be optimal to show a long streak of straight A's in life sciences as a dramatic counterexample to your CS efforts, that dramatic counterexample isn't yours for the asking. You probably are going to have to go through some major character building to get those A's. I speak from experience (and from a 3.9 in CS).

Also, how likely is it for my Psychology statistics "Research Methods and Analysis" to count as math? If it doesn't, my poor sGPA is lower than 2.1. >_<

If the course is listed as a Psych course, it won't be counted as BCPM.

Last question: I graduated from a well-known, ranked research university.

With a low GPA you lose any advantage you'd have from a prestigious school. You're a 2.8; accept it.

The school I am going to for my post-bacc is a "state college" that was accredited in 2008. It offers only 4 year degrees,

The only problem I'd see with that is that you could have trouble finding enough classes to take. If there's not much micro, immuno, physio, biochem, genetics, neuro, then you'll run out of classes before you've sufficiently attended to your sGPA.

so I know it's not a community college (right?!), but will it raise more red flags for me to attend? I live near enough to my alma mater to attend there, but it's more than twice as expensive and in the city. 😡 @ traffic.

Doesn't matter.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

I want to get anyone's opinion about the significance of a high MCAT score coupled with a low GPA.

Is there a score high enough to make up for a low GPA, say, 2.5? What about a 3.0?

I'm applying to a number of SMPs next year, and I am just wondering at what MCAT score the "Wow, forget your GPA this MCAT score shows you can play ball!" point is reached.

If you're hoping to make plans around a theoretical future MCAT score, that's MCAT masturbation. Don't do it in public.

Stats about GPA/MCAT vs. acceptance: https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf. Note that there's no info here whatsoever about grad work, URM status, or other mitigating factors against the stats shown.

 

[BenjaminTM12]

If you're hoping to make plans around a theoretical future MCAT score, that's MCAT masturbation. Don't do it in public.

Stats about GPA/MCAT vs. acceptance: https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf. Note that there's no info here whatsoever about grad work, URM status, or other mitigating factors against the stats shown.

Thanks for the stats! That's a great table, exactly what I was after! I'm assuming the GPAs are all undergrad GPAs since you said the bit about there being no info on grad work...

There's quite a bit of people that have either really bad MCAT scores (<25) or really bad GPA's (<3.0) that apply and get in somewhere. The meat is right where you think it would be GPA: 3.4+ and MCAT: 27-32...

Anyway, cheers for the table.

 

[uoka]

Best of luck to you.

Gah, I was really hoping that would count for statistics; it was an A. :cry:

Thanks for the response. I am pretty sure my biggest hurdle will be learning how to study. I have been doing a little on my own because I was thinking about not retaking chem I to get back in the swing of things. With only Bio I in the Spring, I don't expect problems until I start taking more classes at once.

I am hoping that my state school with in-state preference and urm status will help once I get above a 3.0. Just have to get to that point.

The course offerings at the state college look pretty good; there seems to be a night class for every core class and several options for bio and biochem for me to take later on. I have a tentative trajectory of bio courses that will get me between 40-50 hours of science coursework.

And now... I wait. Pretty much just twiddling my thumbs until January.

 

[Spikebd]

Dr. Midlife/Others I'm in a bad spot here.

I got too confident in myself and underestimated physics. First, I went against my own feelings towards the matter and took scientific physics instead of regular non-engineer physics. Big mistake for someone with a non-math background. Also, coupling that with cell biology, organic chemistry, and calculus, and I found myself stressed out quickly.

So now I'm likely forced to drop (actually more like withdraw, OUCH) the physics class because I'm looking at no better than a C. This is based off two test scores where I got 70 on test #1 and probably the same on test #2. I think it'd be unrealistic to expect much better because I'm working all day and night in the library. I'm honestly not ready for this type of class yet. For a guy on a GPA repair that's not what I'm looking for.

I still have good reason for optimism though, because I am doing well in cell biology, organic chemistry II, and calculus, and am very much succeeding (getting A's/A-'s including labs) in those classes. I'm just disappointed because it looks like Ill have a W on my record and I'll likely have blown a lot of money/time on this.

So I'll see how I did on the midterm (even though im not expecting much). I'll talk to my advisor and the physics teacher and determine whether or not I should withdraw.

Now my question is, should I take non-engineering physics 1 in the spring then 2 in the summer, or both 1 & 2 in the summer? I was really hoping to take the MCAT this June -ish. But I want to do it right and get in to medical school. If it takes me a little longer that's fine.

 

[simply8o8]

.

 

[Alyla]

reposting this here after not getting much response on what are my chances thread:

stats:

BCPM GPA: 3.10 (i know, this is the killer)
AO GPA:3.86
Total GPA: 3.61

MCAT 9/10/11/R (from April 2008 - this was my second MCAT, after getting a 28 the first time)

Applied to 36 schools in the 2008-2009 cycle, but applied very late (AMCAS submitted early September), no interviews.

-Worked as a full-time medical assistant for derm practice 1.5 yrs
-Currently working full-time at a public health/advocacy non-profit.
-100+ hours ER volunteer time from undergrad.
-three years volunteering for a crisis prevention hotline, promoted to supervisory position
-some other stuff, including artistic endeavors, awards, comm. service, but trying to keep this short...

planning to retake the MCAT in April or May 2012 (my score is officially too old). AMCAS is basically written (I almost reapplied this summer, so I already spent time writing the EC descriptions, my LORs are in, and I have a few working drafts of my PS) and I plan to reapply this coming spring, JUNE 1 2012 BABY.

I know that BCPM is killing my app. What's the word: do I need a SMP or just upper-level sciences?

Any feedback is much appreciated 😀

I'm feeling (almost) ready!

 

[Isoprop]

Dr. Midlife/Others I'm in a bad spot here.

I got too confident in myself and underestimated physics. First, I went against my own feelings towards the matter and took scientific physics instead of regular non-engineer physics. Big mistake for someone with a non-math background. Also, coupling that with cell biology, organic chemistry, and calculus, and I found myself stressed out quickly.

So now I'm likely forced to drop (actually more like withdraw, OUCH) the physics class because I'm looking at no better than a C. This is based off two test scores where I got 70 on test #1 and probably the same on test #2. I think it'd be unrealistic to expect much better because I'm working all day and night in the library. I'm honestly not ready for this type of class yet. For a guy on a GPA repair that's not what I'm looking for.

I still have good reason for optimism though, because I am doing well in cell biology, organic chemistry II, and calculus, and am very much succeeding (getting A's/A-'s including labs) in those classes. I'm just disappointed because it looks like Ill have a W on my record and I'll likely have blown a lot of money/time on this.

So I'll see how I did on the midterm (even though im not expecting much). I'll talk to my advisor and the physics teacher and determine whether or not I should withdraw.

Now my question is, should I take non-engineering physics 1 in the spring then 2 in the summer, or both 1 & 2 in the summer? I was really hoping to take the MCAT this June -ish. But I want to do it right and get in to medical school. If it takes me a little longer that's fine.

IMO, there is no reason to take the engineering physics. You can get by with the regular physics. It will prep you well for the MCAT too. As for whether or not to take both or 1 in the summer, that really is your call. If you're busy in the summer, then take just 1. If you have the time and you think you can put in the time, take both. Good luck.

Hey everyone!

I am new to this particular thread and submitted my application to the USC Global Med Program🙂luck🙂 I was wondering what my chances are for getting in to an SMP and if they would consider me?

Basic stats:
Graduated in Secondary Education+Biology
Overall GPA - 3.59
sGPA - 3.40 🙁
GRE - 520V 700Q 5.0(writing)

-Medical Assistant (2.5 years) at a Family Med Clinic
-Wish Granter for Make-A-Wish Foundation (2 years)
-High School Judo Team and Club Coach (5 years)
-Completed Honors Program (research thesis) and was granted Highest Honors (dunno how that happened with my GPA...but im not complaining)
-Just got a job at a hospital as a unit secretary

I am a strong interest tropical medicine/global medicine...particularly since I am born and raised in Hawaii and certain diseases are endemic to the Pacific. My only concern is that I don't have any experience in "global medicine"...aka havent done medical mission trips or set up a fundraiser to help kids in 3rd world countries 🙁 I cant find any stats for those accepted into USC...does anyone know the average stats for those accepted in a similarly tiered SMP program (GPA, GRE)?

Thank you so much 🙂

Most (all?) SMPs require an MCAT score. SMPs are typically suited for mediocre/low GPA + competitive MCAT applicants. If you score 32+ on your MCAT, you would be a good candidate to be accepted into med school.

However, SMPs are very risky. Getting A's in medical school classes is very difficult. And getting a mediocre grade would destroy your chances at getting into med school. Since your GPA is pretty borderline, I would suggest taking a year of post-bacc classes in upper-division science classes to boost your science GPA. This will be the safer/cheaper/better option.

reposting this here after not getting much response on what are my chances thread:

stats:

BCPM GPA: 3.10 (i know, this is the killer)
AO GPA:3.86
Total GPA: 3.61

MCAT 9/10/11/R (from April 2008 - this was my second MCAT, after getting a 28 the first time)

Applied to 36 schools in the 2008-2009 cycle, but applied very late (AMCAS submitted early September), no interviews.

-Worked as a full-time medical assistant for derm practice 1.5 yrs
-Currently working full-time at a public health/advocacy non-profit.
-100+ hours ER volunteer time from undergrad.
-three years volunteering for a crisis prevention hotline, promoted to supervisory position
-some other stuff, including artistic endeavors, awards, comm. service, but trying to keep this short...

planning to retake the MCAT in April or May 2012 (my score is officially too old). AMCAS is basically written (I almost reapplied this summer, so I already spent time writing the EC descriptions, my LORs are in, and I have a few working drafts of my PS) and I plan to reapply this coming spring, JUNE 1 2012 BABY.

I know that BCPM is killing my app. What's the word: do I need a SMP or just upper-level sciences?

Any feedback is much appreciated 😀

I'm feeling (almost) ready!

I recommend against an SMP. Your science GPA and your borderline MCAT suggests that you would not succeed in an SMP. I would take a full load of post-bacc classes in upper-division science courses to prove to yourself that you can handle a rigerous science courseload.

But if your recent transcript shows this already, and you feel confident that you can do well in incredibly difficult (and competitive) medical school classes, then feel free to apply to an SMP. Suerte!

 

[tpham39]

First off, I would really like to thank everyone who has contributed in these forums. I'm so thankful to find such a supportive group of people who understand what I'm going through! Thanks, everyone! Okay, so here is my story...

I graduated from a UC with a horrid cGPA of 2.46 and a sGPA of 2.3. After converting it to AMCAS GPA, it came out to be something like cGPA2.2 and sGPA 2.1. I honestly can't believe that I basically threw away four years of my life, and am now desperately trying to dig myself out of this hole. Since graduating, I've enrolled in a JC and I've retaken some of the core prereqs (such as ochem and physics). I've taken a total of 23 post-bacc units with straight A's and brought up my GPA to an AMCAS cGPA of 2.4 and sGPA of 2.27. Now I know that this doesn't seem like much of an achievement because these classes were taken at a JC, so I am wondering what I should do next.

I haven't applied to any programs or schools because my gpa is too low. However, when I finally reach a 2.5, should I apply to a university and try to get a second bachelors to try and raise my ugGPA? Or should I apply to a post-bacc program like sfsu's? Which will be more beneficial? Thanks in advance for helping, guys!

 

[deleted248403]

First off, I would really like to thank everyone who has contributed in these forums. I'm so thankful to find such a supportive group of people who understand what I'm going through! Thanks, everyone! Okay, so here is my story...

I graduated from a UC with a horrid cGPA of 2.46 and a sGPA of 2.3. After converting it to AMCAS GPA, it came out to be something like cGPA2.2 and sGPA 2.1. I honestly can't believe that I basically threw away four years of my life, and am now desperately trying to dig myself out of this hole. Since graduating, I've enrolled in a JC and I've retaken some of the core prereqs (such as ochem and physics). I've taken a total of 23 post-bacc units with straight A's and brought up my GPA to an AMCAS cGPA of 2.4 and sGPA of 2.27. Now I know that this doesn't seem like much of an achievement because these classes were taken at a JC, so I am wondering what I should do next.

I haven't applied to any programs or schools because my gpa is too low. However, when I finally reach a 2.5, should I apply to a university and try to get a second bachelors to try and raise my ugGPA? Or should I apply to a post-bacc program like sfsu's? Which will be more beneficial? Thanks in advance for helping, guys!

2nd bachelors

 

[Isoprop]

Agreed with above, but both will raise your GPA. So it doesn't matter.

 

[simply8o8]

.

 

[DrMidlife]

Is there a structured program that allows students to take upper division courses?

Why do you think you need a structured program? What would keep you from finding classes to take, and taking them, at any university, maybe using cost as a decision point?

I hope you stayed in Hawai'i so you still have residency.

UH has a postbac program for URMs. Imi Ho'ola?

3.59 overall and 3.4 science is reasonably competitive for med school, assuming your MCAT is above average (31+ is average). What's your plan for the MCAT?

In your shoes I'd put a ton of effort into a good MCAT score, and if that works out (31+ in hand by June) then go ahead and apply MD. Take a couple more upper div science classes, like biochem or genetics, wherever you can, and get A's, before you apply.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Isoprop]

Is there a structured program that allows students to take upper division courses?

Most (but not all) structured programs are for career-changers who have not taken prereqs. I'm sure there are a few structured programs that let you take upper-div science classes, but I'm not aware of them.

Why do you think you need a structured program? What would keep you from finding classes to take, and taking them, at any university, maybe using cost as a decision point?

I hope you stayed in Hawai'i so you still have residency.

UH has a postbac program for URMs. Imi Ho'ola?

3.59 overall and 3.4 science is reasonably competitive for med school, assuming your MCAT is above average (31+ is average). What's your plan for the MCAT?

In your shoes I'd put a ton of effort into a good MCAT score, and if that works out (31+ in hand by June) then go ahead and apply MD. Take a couple more upper div science classes, like biochem or genetics, wherever you can, and get A's, before you apply.

Best of luck to you.

Agreed.

 

[Isoprop]

I'm currently taking a semester off for personal reasons. It's suppose to be my first semester as a senior. I have completed most of my pre-reqs, I guess. I still have to re-take/take Gen Chem II, Orgo II Physics I+II. Have a few W's in my pre-reqs as well. Not such hot grades either.

I was going through an extremely tough time while simultaneously going to school, and my grades and motivation suffered. I'm currently sitting at a ~3.56 cGPA after tanking a few classes last semester (and including my poor performance in my science classes). I think my sGPA is around 3.0, maybe lower.

I think my best bet is to take an extra semester or two at my current school and finish up the pre-reqs and possibly another major. I'm definitely not ready for the MCAT either. Thoughts? Should I graduate with a BS and then apply to a post-bacc and finish up my pre-reqs and take advanced science classes? Should I take that extra year to finish up at my school, take the MCAT, and apply to SMP?

Right now, I would not suggest an SMP, your GPA is still looks like it can be salvaged.

There might be a few issues here. First, any credits taken after your junior year will be lumped into your senior year GPA for AMCAS. So if you take an extra year as an undergrad, all your grades will be lumped into "senior year." But if you take that extra year as a post-bacc student, all of a sudden, that extra year gets its own post-bacc category after senior year. Why this may be important is that getting straight As during the next two years will show a more positive trend if you have a senior year 4.0 + post-bacc year 4.0 GPAs than just having all those classes lumped together as 4.0 as your senior year GPA.

I hope that makes sense.

The other consideration is financial aid. It's much easier to get federal financial aid as a first-time degree seeker. Also, at some (but not all) schools, post-bacc students get last priority in picking classes, so it might be tough to get classes.

Play around with the math to see how many classes you need to raise your science GPA to 3.3 and 3.4. My suspicion is that after 2 years of classes (senior year + 1 more year), you might get your GPA to a competitive level to apply without an SMP. Of course this is assuming you get good grades from here on out.

 

[scarshapedstar]

don't the adcoms see the individual grades of the classes, or no?

They see them, sure, but basically the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. One reason is that a school might say "this month we're only interviewing people with a 3.8+". Another reason is that some (most?) schools have subcommittees, so everyone knows your averages, but only a handful of people really look over your transcript in detail.

 

[Isoprop]

What about "5th year"? Is that really the only difference between continuing your senior year and a post-bacc? And don't the adcoms see the individual grades of the classes, or no?

Yes, they will see your individual grades, but they will have to comb through your courses to see this trend. They have a table of your GPA during your freshman, soph, junior, senior, and postbacc years. It all adds up to your cumulative undergrad GPA at the bottom of the table. This table basically "summarizes" your academic performance so more people will pay attention to that table then individual grades.

This isn't the biggest deal to worry about. I would worry more about money/cost and availability of financial aid as well as the choice of classes/quality of professors.

But if all things being equal, a post-bacc would highlight an upward trend better than combining your 4th and 5th year into your senior year. Assuming you do equally well.

 

[purple89]

.

 

[deleted248403]

Whoa! I have a 2.6-2.7 GPA, where are all these post bac's that are taking folks with my GPA! I have to know so I can apply there! OMG!!!!!!!!😱

You'll prob need to do an informal, DIY, post-bac to do your pre-reqs (based on your post thread on SFSU, I am assuming u need to do them) as you won't get into many formal post-bac programs with that GPA

*Edit - I also just saw you are looking to do nursing, not medical school (from your other thread); so firstly, this forum is designed for pre-med/pre-dent, but my advice still stands - do an informal DIY*

 

[dedemed]

Hi all,

Today, I got rejected from RFU and I am very sad since RFU was my top choice for medical school. My cGPA is 3.39 (BCMP 3.19) with an upward trend; my last 120 hours of credit is 3.75 and my last 30 hours of science is 3.8. My recent MCAT score is also 32 (10/12/10). I have more that 1000 hours of work in hospital as Patient Services Assistant and many volunteer experiences. My research background is very strong. I am doing clinical research as part of my Masters of Physiology program at the University of Toronto and so far had one co-author publication and several abstracts to international conferences like Society for Neuroscience and International Congress for Movement Disorders.
Now that I got rejected I am thinking of applying to special masters program at RFU. Do you think it is a good fit for me and considering that I am Canadian will it help me to get into RFU medical school or even other US medical schools??
I would like some information on these programs as well.
I really appreciate your help in advance.

 

[johnnyscans]

Hey all. Another comeback kid here looking to share my plan and see if there's anything I'm overlooking.

Background
-Graduated 2008 Finance/MIS double major (3.0 GPA - only 16 or so credits of BCPM, so that can be readily improved and boosted). Upward GPA trend throughout the four years. This is my major handicap so I know it will have to be repaired as much as possible.
-2 Years of related work experience (prestigious job I kicked ass in, outstanding LORs)
-Summers during college were spent as a first responder and running two youth programs (community involvement)

Currently
-Completed Bio 2 and Chem 1 at a major 4 year university while shadowing 8-12 hrs/week for a semester to test the waters - 3.87 GPA - A in Bio 2 w/ lab, A- in Chem 1 w/ lab, and secured a strong LOR from the physician I shadowed
-Now enrolled in Harvard Extension's HCP. Currently taking Phys1 and Bio1 - I have high A's in both classes and anticipate finishing the semester with a 4.0
-Between now my anticipated application time (June 2013) I will complete an additional 48 post-bacc credits which will bring me to 65 post-bacc credits (90% in hard sciences). If I continue to succeed academically and do well on the MCATs, will this be sufficient to counter the lousy undergraduate performance without requiring additional help e.g. a SMP?
-Beyond the classroom I've been working 20+ hrs a week as a research assistant at one of the major Boston hospitals. I'm currently applying to various clinical volunteer positions and hope to have something secured by early 2012. Is there anything else I'm overlooking for now?

-Question: is it worth polishing up on a second language? I have taken years of Spanish, and was at the intermediate/advance level when I stopped taking classes and let my skill turn to rust. I've been meaning to focus some effort into picking it back up but, to be honest, I'm super busy without an hour of Rosetta Stone a night. Would a second language be valued in the eyes of ADCOMS?

I've read through 15+ pages of this thread, lots of great information. It's awesome to see people pushing themselves to achieve their dreams - it's a refreshing break from the average person who settles for mediocrity while counting down the years until retirement.

 

[WonkyBella]

Hey everyone,

I need a little bit of help/advice/guidance. I am a senior at an engineering college that is unfortunately infamous for gpa deflation. However, I let that get the best of me and am sitting on a 2.78 with a very, very steep upward trend. I expect to graduate with a 2.8-2.9. My MCAT score is a 41. I've taken all of the pre-reqs, a lot of upper-division courses, etc. I have no idea where to go from here. I've been in contact with directors of several SMPs and they've said I stand a good shot and that an SMP would be right for me. However, reading through SDN, it seems like it's increasingly difficult to get into an SMP with a sub-3.0. So, I've also looked into post-baccs. However, the post-bacc directors I've spoken to said I'm not right for their programs and then proceeded to direct me to the SMPs again. I don't want to waste my money on an unstructured program for a year that won't grant me some sort of degree or certificate in the end either. What do you all think I should do?

Any help is appreciated!

 

[johnnyscans]

Hey everyone,

I need a little bit of help/advice/guidance. I am a senior at an engineering college that is unfortunately infamous for gpa deflation. However, I let that get the best of me and am sitting on a 2.78 with a very, very steep upward trend. I expect to graduate with a 2.8-2.9. My MCAT score is a 41. I've taken all of the pre-reqs, a lot of upper-division courses, etc. I have no idea where to go from here. I've been in contact with directors of several SMPs and they've said I stand a good shot and that an SMP would be right for me. However, reading through SDN, it seems like it's increasingly difficult to get into an SMP with a sub-3.0. So, I've also looked into post-baccs. However, the post-bacc directors I've spoken to said I'm not right for their programs and then proceeded to direct me to the SMPs again. I don't want to waste my money on an unstructured program for a year that won't grant me some sort of degree or certificate in the end either. What do you all think I should do?

Any help is appreciated!

I think you have a very good shot at an SMP with that MCAT. Holy ****, a 41 is no joke.

 

[TwinsFan]

Hey everyone,

I need a little bit of help/advice/guidance. I am a senior at an engineering college that is unfortunately infamous for gpa deflation. However, I let that get the best of me and am sitting on a 2.78 with a very, very steep upward trend. I expect to graduate with a 2.8-2.9. My MCAT score is a 41. I've taken all of the pre-reqs, a lot of upper-division courses, etc. I have no idea where to go from here. I've been in contact with directors of several SMPs and they've said I stand a good shot and that an SMP would be right for me. However, reading through SDN, it seems like it's increasingly difficult to get into an SMP with a sub-3.0. So, I've also looked into post-baccs. However, the post-bacc directors I've spoken to said I'm not right for their programs and then proceeded to direct me to the SMPs again. I don't want to waste my money on an unstructured program for a year that won't grant me some sort of degree or certificate in the end either. What do you all think I should do?

Any help is appreciated!

If you already have significant shadowing and clinical experience take as many upper levels to get to a 3.0 and apply before the 41 expires while applying to an SMP in the spring. Even if you have to take postbacc classes at a CC to get to a 3.0 make sure you apply before the 41 expires, consider DO as well. If you have the ECs and medical exposure to back up your app you may be able to get an acceptance with a good interview.

 

[deleted248403]

Even if you have to take postbacc classes at a CC to get to a 3.0 make sure you apply before the 41 expires, consider DO as well. If you have the ECs and medical exposure to back up your app you may be able to get an acceptance with a good interview.

No, No, No - whatever the question, the answer is almost never take classes at a CC.

WonkyBella has a superb MCAT, and taking classes at a CC would just confuse and muddy the picture. WonkyBella should take classes at a 4-yr univ, rock them, and present themselves with the strongest front. CC classes do not demonstrate the strongest front.

But definitely do not let the 41 MCAT expire

 

[TwinsFan]

No, No, No - whatever the question, the answer is almost never take classes at a CC.

WonkyBella has a superb MCAT, and taking classes at a CC would just confuse and muddy the picture. WonkyBella should take classes at a 4-yr univ, rock them, and present themselves with the strongest front. CC classes do not demonstrate the strongest front.

But definitely do not let the 41 MCAT expire

The point is to apply with the 41 period. And to do whatever it takes to get past computer cutoffs. Obviously CC classes are not preferred, but the application needs to be set in motion before the 41 expires however possible. In a better situation the applicant would have already done the 1-2 years of 3.8+ upper level science at a good university and gotten above the 3.0 mark before taking the MCAT to have maximum opportunity to apply (2-3 times if necessary). The best bet is to take your time and do it right, but with a 41, I would make sure to get a decent app out before it expires.

A 3.0 with a strong upward trend, a 41 MCAT, average ECs and clinical experience and shadowing will probably get you some interviews. Hell, if you already have the ECs and clinical I would apply next year to your state and preferred DO schools, you may land an acceptance if everything else is in order.

 

[DrMidlife]

SMP adcoms will bend some rules for that 41. Problem is, except at EVMS & Cincy, you still have to go peddle your wares to get into med school during/after an SMP. So, see if you can get into EVMS or Cincy. If not, then you need to go get your cumulative undergrad GPAs over 3.0, and the clock might run out on your 41 and you'll have to do a comparable retake. Worse things have happened.

Don't dilute the story with CC coursework. The doubt about your 2.8x in hard classes isn't removed by a 4.0 in CC classes.

Don't blow that 41 on DO.

Here's the thing: you may, or you may not, have the academic cojones to thrive under a med school courseload. If you had maybe a 3.3 at that hard engineering school, you'd get some benefit of the doubt. But more C's than A's says that you likely have problems with endurance. Gotta have endurance in med school.

But you're saying "strong upward trend" at your famously grade-deflating engineering school, which doesn't add up. In your shoes, I'd go get permission to stay a 5th year, add a biochem minor or neuro or whatnot, and get straight A's from here on out. Do a very hard courseload that gets you up over 3.0. You might still need an SMP, and you might still need to retake the MCAT, but you'd be very done with undergrad.

Best of luck to you.

 

[WonkyBella]

I would like to thank everyone for all the great insight! However, now I have another question. I've been crunching the numbers and if I get a 4.0 my last semester, I will only need an additional 4 credit hours to get to a 3.0. Should I cross my fingers and hope to get into a good SMP and then take a class or two before August (when the program presumably starts)?

Also if it helps, I have strong ECs, but particularly meaningful research experiences. Since I ultimately want to get a PhD as well, I'd like to get into medical school in the next application cycle...hopefully...

 

[TwinsFan]

I would like to thank everyone for all the great insight! However, now I have another question. I've been crunching the numbers and if I get a 4.0 my last semester, I will only need an additional 4 credit hours to get to a 3.0. Should I cross my fingers and hope to get into a good SMP and then take a class or two before August (when the program presumably starts)?

Also if it helps, I have strong ECs, but particularly meaningful research experiences. Since I ultimately want to get a PhD as well, I'd like to get into medical school in the next application cycle...hopefully...

Add 4 credits of fluff classes (music, PE, art, whatever) to get to the 3.0 so you can apply in June. Make sure you have shadowing and clinical experience though, not just research. It will help your chances and you'll get an idea of what your trying to get into.

 

[DrMidlife]

Also if it helps, I have strong ECs, but particularly meaningful research experiences. Since I ultimately want to get a PhD as well, I'd like to get into medical school in the next application cycle...hopefully...

Whoa there, settle down.

Assuming you know some MD/PhDs, I suggest you should get some of them to sit down with you and explain how they managed their education. Find out what they think about your chances of doing a combined MD/PhD program. Find out what they think about not doing a combined program. Find out if anybody you know managed substantial med school debt while working on a PhD.

You're not going to be competitive for the usual path of MSTP, which is a full ride combined MD/PhD federal program. There are school-specific combined MD/PhD programs as well, and these tend to also be extremely competitive.

Fundamentally, your ability to get a free ride is negligible because of your GPA. Without a free ride, you would have to do the PhD first and then go to med school, because there's no way to manage med school debt (assume $250k) during a PhD. The accruing interest would turn that into a half million, easy.

Mentors, my friend, you need mentors. Also: A's, you need A's.

Best of luck to you.

 

[desklamp]

I had a question regarding other professional programs (or electives) and the AMCAS. My story is, in a nutshell- ugrad GPA as a pre-med is 2.7, abusive relationship, etc etc. Worked a while. Did a sort of SMP (it wasn't the kind that had you take first year med school classes- it had you take 1st year phD classes as I could not get into any of the actual med school SMPs) - got a 3.7 but it didn't seem like enough to make a case for med school, especially since it was a "graduate program" so would not be included under AMCAS ugrad GPA as i understand.

So went to pharmacy school instead. Current GPA is 4.0 w/ multiple research projects, aiming for presentations at conferences, scholarships, free clinic work and my entire fourth year will essentially be hospital rotations. With loans and interest accruing every year I don't know that I can financially handle taking another 1-2 years to do ANOTHER SMP or post-bacc that probably won't even dent my 2.5 years of crappy grades.

Is it possible at all to apply pharmacy school grades to the AMCAS to meet the cutoff? Or am I going to have to re-take every single bad grade until I get above a 3.0? Do most people retake pre-reqs? Or just take more ugrad classes to buffer the GPA?

 

[deleted248403]

I had a question regarding other professional programs (or electives) and the AMCAS. My story is, in a nutshell- ugrad GPA as a pre-med is 2.7, abusive relationship, etc etc. Worked a while. Did a sort of SMP (it wasn't the kind that had you take first year med school classes- it had you take 1st year phD classes as I could not get into any of the actual med school SMPs) - got a 3.7 but it didn't seem like enough to make a case for med school, especially since it was a "graduate program" so would not be included under AMCAS ugrad GPA as i understand.

So went to pharmacy school instead. Current GPA is 4.0 w/ multiple research projects, aiming for presentations at conferences, scholarships, free clinic work and my entire fourth year will essentially be hospital rotations. With loans and interest accruing every year I don't know that I can financially handle taking another 1-2 years to do ANOTHER SMP or post-bacc that probably won't even dent my 2.5 years of crappy grades.

Is it possible at all to apply pharmacy school grades to the AMCAS to meet the cutoff? Or am I going to have to re-take every single bad grade until I get above a 3.0? Do most people retake pre-reqs? Or just take more ugrad classes to buffer the GPA?

Man there is a lot going on here.

So bottom-line for me is move on and make the most of a career in pharmacy, but anyways ill humor this thought

So a med school is going to see multiple big red flags which is going to scare the heck out of them - 1) bad GPA 2) began a PhD program or whatever this [im confused], didnt finish 3) pharmacy school

I think doing anything after pharmacy school is going to be hard to sell to a med school. Because you will be making a step down essentially in terms of coursework. The people that do extra Ugrad classes with either career changers who need pre-reqs (think lawyers/MBA ppl) or people who need a boast to get into SMPs (and these people r typically straight from college or close to it).

You also don't fall into the "always loved medicine but was doing something slightly diff and now want to come back" - aka PhD students or Medics. And the ones of those in my class are really smart and got great grades...

Like I said, there are a lot of red flags. you've made a lot of poor decisions if you have always wanted to be a physician (PhD-SMP thing? why? / not to mention Pharmacy school).

I think you can solve some of these problems to some degree but I don't think anyone will buy what you are trying to sell them. I'm not sure even if you rocked everything from heree on in, that people would be willing to take a chance on you and offer you a place at a med school in the US - a 21/22 yr old fresh from ugrad with all the boxes checked offers a much less riskier proposition IMO. Hence my original thought of - make the most of being a pharmacist at this point.

 

[deleted248403]

...am sitting on a 2.78 with a very, very steep upward trend. I expect to graduate with a 2.8-2.9. My MCAT score is a 41...

....Since I ultimately want to get a PhD as well, I'd like to get into medical school in the next application cycle...hopefully...

Not happening next cycle, like at all. Especially for MD/PhD - those stats are higher than for reg MD.

Only way is to get into a good SMP starting in the Fall 2012, whilst applying to MD schools - rock it, and then get a late acceptance in the spring of 2013 for med school start of fall 2013. But I don't think that will happen with a 2.8 and potentially only 1-semester of SMP grades to apply with. That and i'm not sure the good SMPs (which have a solid record of people applying in the first semester of their SMP and getting into med school) would take a flyer on you with that cGPA

 

[willen101383]

Wanted to take a second and post an update on this thread. I am an M2 and I am now on my LAST major class of my preclinical curriculum. Things have been going really well, and I have had no real trouble getting the grades I want to get in med school which I am so thankful for! I am starting to prep for both my COMLEX and USLME in the next few months and getting married in a month ahhhh! Good luck to anyone that might be interviewing right now, and congrats to anyone who may have gotten an acceptance this cycle!


Just a little about my background:

Graduated in 2006 from a small no name SUNY school with a 2.45 GPA and something like a 1.5 science GPA. Had started working in healthcare in undergrad and was interested in medicine but couldnt pull it together. Graduated, got my clinical lab scientist licensure (MT) and started working in a lab. I was really loving it, and I took 2 classes at Syracuse University and got As. Inspired I decided to try to take the MCAT. Enrolled in Kaplan, 27O. I applied to about 20 post bacc programs, got rejected to all but 1. Moved to Philly in 2007 to start at Drexel University. After my first year I have a 3.95 GPA. I apply to medical school (DO only) and end up getting 5 interviews. I got one acceptance 2 WLs and 2 rejections out of those interviews! The school wasnt my first choice, but I had done it! The summer before I was going to matriculate I had a severe eye injury causing my retina to detach in that eye. I had emergency surgery but was left with visual issues and headaches for months. I decided to defer for a year to let my eye heal and start school on better footing. During my year off I worked full time, in a lab as always, but I ended up reapplying to PCOM bc I wanted to stay in Philly. Ended up getting an interview on the very first day of interviews in the 2009 cycle!!! Accepted about a month later. PCOM really was like my ultimate school and at 7500 interviews for 1 seat in my class I am incredibly lucky. I overcame such a horrible GPA to ultimately get accepted to, and be successful in medical school. Happy holidays guys 🙂

 

[Isoprop]

Excellent story! Thanks for sharing. We def. need more stories like this.

 

[willen101383]

Excellent story! Thanks for sharing. We def. need more stories like this.

Thanks!! I remember seeing this thread, or original low gpa thread, and using that as inspiration during the "dark days" where I really didnt think I had any hope. None of my family supported my endevours because I was such a screwup in college. It was nice reading these stories and realizing I would be albe to recover from such a bad GPA.

Paying this thread back and hopefully inspiring others who come after me! 🙂