The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

[DrMidlife]

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Withdraws from a decade ago don't matter if they obviously don't reflect who you are now.

Here's a fun story I like to tell about 20 year old grades and med school interviews.

I paid for a plane ticket and a hotel room and got all up in my suit and went to an interview. It was a normal interview day until a director on the admissions staff (somebody with an education degree who's never opened a chem textbook) sat me down to go through my transcripts, line by line. Anything lower than a B required an explanation. This was in 2007. My first college transcript is from 1984.

Do you think I can remember why I even registered to take that sign language class I dropped in 1984, much less why I dropped it? Correct, I do not.

This was at a DO school, by the way.

The above is just an anomalous anecdote so that people don't get the impression that nobody will care about an old W. Anecdote notwithstanding, when adcoms are going through 5000 apps, they are not absorbing the age of a college record until after they have thought "hey what's with all these W's?!?" Point being: have an answer to that question and provide as many fresh counterexamples as you can.

Best of luck to you.

 

[mack123]

Thanks for the info. I recalculated my GPA using AACOMAS and grade replacement, and I end up with a 2.85. A little better haha. I'm trying to come up with a plan of action for myself and I had some follow up questions.

As far as grade replacement for AACOMAS, my understanding is that the class has to be the same # of credits with a similar course description. Am I right in thinking that implies that the courses can be from different institutions? So, if I got a lousy grade in Spanish, I could retake it at a CC and use that grade instead for GPA calculation?

Also, is it preferable to take the science classes as a full course load as opposed to one or two per semester? I was thinking I may start with 1 or 2 at a time, and then switch to a full course load.


Here's my tentative plan:
Stop wasting my time with MBA classes that I'm no longer interested in
Shadow a physician or two (DOs)
Take a couple courses at CC for grade replacement purposes
Find some clinical or hospital volunteering programs
Take a science class at local 4 year
If I do well, quit job
Take science classes full time.
Take MCATs and apply DO.

Any suggestions or comments? Thanks again

 

[DrMidlife]

As far as grade replacement for AACOMAS, my understanding is that the class has to be the same # of credits with a similar course description. Am I right in thinking that implies that the courses can be from different institutions? So, if I got a lousy grade in Spanish, I could retake it at a CC and use that grade instead for GPA calculation?

Yes, you can do retakes at a different school. When you apply, you designate what courses are repeats. The credits don't have to match exactly, nor do the course descriptions. Worst case, you get denied, and you make a polite beseeching phone call.

Also, is it preferable to take the science classes as a full course load as opposed to one or two per semester? I was thinking I may start with 1 or 2 at a time, and then switch to a full course load.

Sure, figure out how to get A's, then get tons of 'em.

Here’s my tentative plan:
Stop wasting my time with MBA classes that I’m no longer interested in
Shadow a physician or two (DOs)
Take a couple courses at CC for grade replacement purposes
Find some clinical or hospital volunteering programs
Take a science class at local 4 year
If I do well, quit job
Take science classes full time.
Take MCATs and apply DO.

Looks good. Move volunteering up to the front though. Volunteering should be a gateway to shadowing and to growing a mature comprehension of the job.

Best of luck to you.

 

[alsaire]

Hey everyone, I'm planning to apply to post-bacs/SMPs, and I was wondering whether I would be able to get into the list of schools that I have with my stats, which are:


UCLA Biochemistry
GPA: 3.2
MCAT: (36R) 13P 13V 10B
State: CA

ECs:
2008 Summer Microbiology research at Academica Sinica Gov't lab in Taiwan
2008 physics paper co-authored, published and presented at WCECS in Berkeley
-Patent granted
2009 Summer Neuro research at Stanford
2010 Summer+Fall Clinical research on spinal fusion at Cedar Sinai
2010-2012 biochem/med research at UCLA (maybe publication)
2010-2012 On the referrals committee of a healthcare club that collaborates with the school of medicine and the school of nursing to provide free health screenings and promote health ed. to the poor areas of LA county.
2011 Co-founded nonprofit org for organ donors
2009-2011 UCLA hospital volunteering
2006-2012 Co-founder/president (2006-2007) of org that raises awareness and donations for crises in other countries (e.g. darfur). Sponsored by World Vision
2011-2012: member of an entrepreneurial fraternity


I haven't dared apply to med schools because of my low gpa, but after looking at the small class sizes for postbac/SMPs, I'm getting nervous that I wouldn't be able to get into one of them either. My list of schools I'm applying to are:

Boston University: rolling admissions until July 1, 2012
Georgetown University: May 15th, 2012
GeorgeSquared: June 15th, 2012
Cincinnati: June 1, 2012
EVMS (Virginia): April 1, 2012
Tufts Deadline: July 15, 2012
Temple University: May 15, 2012
USF IMS: March 2, 2012
Drexel IMS: applications accepted year-round
VCU: July 1, 2012
RFU: June 1, 2012
NYMC: July 1, 2012?
Toledo: May 1, 2012
UMDNJ Masters in Biomed Sciences: June 1, 2012
USC: June 15, 2012

--Non SMPs--
Loyola (Chicago): July 15, 2012 (May 15 soft deadline)
UPenn: July 15
UMich Physiology: April 30, 2012
Case Western Masters in Med Phys.******: June 1, 2012
Mt. Sinai: June 1, 2012
Columbia: June 15, 2012

I know I'm applying late, as I didn't really think seriously about post-bacs until recently...but do I have a chance? Or should I start preparing to do something for next year instead?

 

[maxillarysinus]

Hey guys, wanted some advice on what to do next.

I have a 3.3cgpa, ~3.0sgpa, and am planning to retake MCAT at the end of April after taking Kaplan this semester (I got a 30 the first time around self-studying, but I was hoping to compensate my low gpa by taking a course and doing better - 36 is realistic at this point).

Originally I was planning to just apply to med schools broadly in June, and apply concurrently to a post-bacc to boost my gpa and show productivity during the application cycle. However, after calculating some numbers, I think I would have to get solid As for the full year (I was planning on doing the Berkeley post-bacc) and it would still only bring my gpa up to ~3.48. A year of A-s would only raise it to a 3.37. I think I just have too many units as an undergrad already, and it's dampening chances of raising my gpa substantially within a year.

So I went back thinking about applying to SMPs (I know it's late, so as an aside - how late is too late??) Alsaire's list above is a great starting point for me (thank you!) and I'll await responses to his post. My PIs suggest doing a year of research + publications + more clinical hours to show direct contributions to the medical field, but while that may be great, those things do not compensate for my low sGPA or prove to adcoms that I can handle med school courses.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. You guys are the best.

 

[premedgal89]

I would prefer entry into an allopathic medical school. Here are my demographics and my statistics.

In High School I was an A student

College:

Senior Biology Major
Math Minor
Entry Date: Fall 2007
Expected graduation date: Fall 2012 (I only took on average 12-13 hours a semester. I could not afford summer classes)
cumulative GPA: 2.7 (I worked very hard to pull this up from a 2.1)
last 60 hours thus far: 2.9gpa
I retook classes that I did poorly in. My grades went from Ds to A's and B+'s
Began college as an honors student, I left after my grades dropped because of mistakes.
Currently 1 Withdrawal on my record

Teaching Experience:
Teach Houston experience (offers teaching experience to students) Creating lesson plans
Citizen Schools - Citizen schools teacher (Creating lesson plans)
Tutor for the TAKS test
Multiple positions as a tutor

Major Community Service Experiences:
-Children's Defense Fund Freedom Schools (2 consecutive years thus far) - this also offered teaching experience and Social Work experience.
-My campus ministry (3 consecutive years thus far)- i serve as the campus liaison. I also plan programs and events for the ministry.
-A social sorority (3.5 years) - currently focusing on school
-Peer tutor for my scholarship program

Awards:
-Deans list twice in my academic career
-Houston Louis Stokes Minority Participation Scholar

Work Experience:
-I began working 2 jobs my second semester in college while joining a sorority.
I maintained working an average of 18 hours per week until the year of 2010. This is when I took on multiple jobs to assist myself and parents. I worked under a teaching internship, while working as a student assistant at a Children's Learning Center for 1 year. I also performed this while participating in my semester Undergraduate Research program. A year before this, I worked two jobs while participating in the Academic Associates program.
- Also worked multiple positions as an administrative secretary.
- Student Assistant at Child's learning center (3 years)
- currently studying to take pharmacy technician test


Research Experience:
-Academic Associates Program - A clinical research program with Baylor/Texas Children's Hospital
-Undergraduate Research - Participated in a semester long research project with my professor. I received a scholarship to do so.

Practice Mcat:
16/17 (this is without studying)
- I have not taken the real MCAT yet
- I plan to study during the summer to take it in the fall of this year

Backup plan until I get into medical school:

-Obtain a Masters in Health Administration
-While working as a Pharmacy Technician

Race/Ethnicity:
-This shouldn't matter, but if it does to some, i am black.

Questions:
-What are my chances of getting into medical school?
-What can I do to improve my application?

 

[BR0224]

Hi guys so I was a straight A student in high school but I struggled in college. I go to a pretty hard Jesuit university and I am currently a senior. My gpa is a little above 3.0 and my MCAT weren't good. Major Biology/Pre-med and Math minor.

As far as extra curricular goes I think I've done pretty good:
-Co-Founded two student associations that have grown greatly since my freshmen year
-Part of a program that mentors freshmen in our college
-Participated in a volunteer "clean up" event every year
-I got a CNA certification during a summer which included clinical experience
-Researched with a professor for two years and I have received a scholarship for it.
-I have done many hours of shadowing doctors at the local hospital.

Im applying to one year masters programs to help me get into medical school. At this point I don't know what to do. How hard is it to get into a masters program? Do you guys have any other suggestions on what I should do.

Thanks!

 

[esotero]

When applying to masters programs held at DO schools (e.g. MA at Midwestern), do they calculate the cumulative GPA without grade replacement, or is the GPA calculated as per AACOMAS for admission into their masters program?

 

[johnnyscans]

Hi guys so I was a straight A student in high school but I struggled in college. I go to a pretty hard Jesuit university and I am currently a senior. My gpa is a little above 3.0 and my MCAT weren't good. Major Biology/Pre-med and Math minor.

As far as extra curricular goes I think I've done pretty good:
-Co-Founded two student associations that have grown greatly since my freshmen year
-Part of a program that mentors freshmen in our college
-Participated in a volunteer "clean up" event every year
-I got a CNA certification during a summer which included clinical experience
-Researched with a professor for two years and I have received a scholarship for it.
-I have done many hours of shadowing doctors at the local hospital.

Im applying to one year masters programs to help me get into medical school. At this point I don't know what to do. How hard is it to get into a masters program? Do you guys have any other suggestions on what I should do.

Thanks!

Define "wasn't good". If you're struggling at a "hard" university now just wait until medical school. Does your GPA have any upward trend? What is your sGPA? Are you confident in your ability to get A's?

 

[DrMidlife]

I have a 3.3cgpa, ~3.0sgpa, and am planning to retake MCAT at the end of April after taking Kaplan this semester (I got a 30 the first time around self-studying, but I was hoping to compensate my low gpa by taking a course and doing better - 36 is realistic at this point).

High MCAT and a low GPA says that you're great at tests and bad at endurance. Gotta have endurance. Also, if somebody gives me a dime for every "I'm expecting a 35+" we get in this forum, I can buy you all dinner. The histograms for retakes are really depressing.

Recently there have been several anecdotes here about emphasis on the last 60 hours of coursework. So if your last couple of years were mostly A's, then you're in a better position than a straight through 3.3/3.0.

Originally I was planning to just apply to med schools broadly in June, and apply concurrently to a post-bacc to boost my gpa and show productivity during the application cycle.

If you're in California and thinking about a UC, you can't apply with any half-finished assets. Too much competition. If you want to get into an UC you are likely 2-3 years from applying.

However, after calculating some numbers, I think I would have to get solid As for the full year (I was planning on doing the Berkeley post-bacc) and it would still only bring my gpa up to ~3.48. A year of A-s would only raise it to a 3.37. I think I just have too many units as an undergrad already, and it's dampening chances of raising my gpa substantially within a year.

Yes, but think of the credibility you'd gain by showing a 3.7+ for a year of full time hard science.

So I went back thinking about applying to SMPs (I know it's late, so as an aside - how late is too late??) Alsaire's list above is a great starting point for me (thank you!) and I'll await responses to his post.

I responded in the EVMS thread. There's no formula for what SMPs to choose. You have to do your homework to figure out which program will meet your needs. Alsaire has a 36 in the pocket, so he/she can take some risks that you can't.

My PIs suggest doing a year of research + publications + more clinical hours to show direct contributions to the medical field, but while that may be great, those things do not compensate for my low sGPA or prove to adcoms that I can handle med school courses.

Of course your PI wants you to do more in his/her lab. You're cheap labor. You're right to question his/her input on this.

Again, if you want to get into UCs, it's a longer road, and you want to go through programs like Loyola/Gtown, and then you get a much cheaper outcome. If you will be fine with over $300k in med school debt (or you have a funding source), then focus on SMPs like EVMS/Cincy that have tight host-school intake.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

I would prefer entry into an allopathic medical school. Here are my demographics and my statistics.

Hi. First, you'll have a wonderfully well rounded application. You've got leadership, responsibility, variety, community, the works. Great! And now, the only thing you should be focusing on is academics and MCAT. More extra-curriculars and other stuff will not help you.

If you are serious about medical school, you are a few years from being academically ready. (You're maybe 23? I wasn't ready until I was 38. It just takes as long as it takes.) If you get in somewhere before you have built academic skills and confidence, that would be horrible. The first two years of medical school are extremely difficult for 4.0 students; sub-3.0 students get crushed like bugs on a windshield.

Point being: take it slow, do it right, think long term.

In High School I was an A student

Hold onto that for courage. Unfortunately, it won't help with med school admissions.

College:

Senior Biology Major
Math Minor
Entry Date: Fall 2007
Expected graduation date: Fall 2012 (I only took on average 12-13 hours a semester. I could not afford summer classes)
cumulative GPA: 2.7 (I worked very hard to pull this up from a 2.1)

More courage points there - you know you're not a number.

last 60 hours thus far: 2.9gpa
I retook classes that I did poorly in. My grades went from Ds to A's and B+'s

Is that 2.9 counting only the last 60 hours? If you got A's and B+'s you should have a 3.x.

Began college as an honors student, I left after my grades dropped because of mistakes.

At your leisure, work on telling that story. What could you have done differently? What did you need to know that you didn't learn yet? Own what happened. Again, it helps with courage and motivation to keep going.

Currently 1 Withdrawal on my record

Don't worry about it. Don't get any more W's.

...EC list...

Great list. You don't need to do more. It won't help. The only thing you need to keep doing is clinical volunteering (such as 4 hrs/wk in an ER or similar).

Practice Mcat:
16/17 (this is without studying)
- I have not taken the real MCAT yet
- I plan to study during the summer to take it in the fall of this year

I suggest you should wait on the MCAT until you have stronger academics. Your GPA says you haven't mastered the content yet. If your retakes in the prereqs were A's, and your English and Humanities grades are A's, then proceed.

Backup plan until I get into medical school:

-Obtain a Masters in Health Administration
-While working as a Pharmacy Technician

The MHA won't help you get into med school. Not at all. If you are interested in the field, great, get the MHA for that reason. But don't harbor an illusion that doing well in an MHA program will counter your undergrad GPA.

If you can work as a pharm tech now, that's great, you should be able to land a part time gig.

Race/Ethnicity:
-This shouldn't matter, but if it does to some, i am black.

It matters, because it gets you access to programs for underrepresented minorities. Take advantage of such opportunities to get mentoring and direct support for academic growth. For examples, see category 5 in this (old) list: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=640302

Questions:
-What are my chances of getting into medical school?
-What can I do to improve my application?

You can get into medical school if you make good choices and don't quit...if you can start pulling straight A's in hard science for a long time.

I suggest making some calls to GEMS, WakeForest, maybe UTDallas. Talk to regular academic advisors as well as minority outreach. When the advice starts to be consistent, it starts to be helpful, so keep asking until you get there.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Im applying to one year masters programs to help me get into medical school. At this point I don't know what to do. How hard is it to get into a masters program? Do you guys have any other suggestions on what I should do.

Get a strong MCAT before you start thinking about an SMP. You might need to do more undergrad before you can get a strong MCAT. These are the breaks.

In addition, don't use an SMP to figure out what's wrong academically. Figure that out in a lower risk, lower cost environment. You need to show a minimum of a year of full time mostly science at a 3.7+ to give yourself credibility as a medical school applicant. You can't do that cold in an SMP coming off 3.0-ish.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

When applying to masters programs held at DO schools (e.g. MA at Midwestern), do they calculate the cumulative GPA without grade replacement, or is the GPA calculated as per AACOMAS for admission into their masters program?

The masters programs at DO schools are regular grad school, more or less. They're not particularly competitive.

Make it easy for the program to understand what you're after. If you make it clear that you are pursuing DO, and that you retook courses as part of an effort to improve your standing, then they'll know what to do with you. Most likely, the apps for these programs expect you to enter your GPA in a box somewhere, which may or may not get checked against your transcript(s).

Best of luck to you.

 

[BR0224]

My MCAT score was a 24. That's the only time I have taken it so far. As far as going to medical school I am confident that I can work hard and get through it since it has been my life long dream. What mainly lowered my gpa was Organic Chemistry. Do you suggest taking that over?

 

[atis]

Jumping into the low gpa thread for a WAMC/next steps query:

So I started post-bac classes in summer 2010 and have thus far finished 28 semester hours at a 3.7. My sGPA is currently sitting at 3.14 (raised from a 2.78) and my cGPA is sitting at 3.4. I have:
- a master's in public health
- plenty of research experience and 1 pub
- close to 180 hrs of volunteering (focused on integrative med...as I was directly interacting with patients, I thought it was clinical, apparently it was not)
- about 25 hours of physician shadowing
- 32S MCAT from 7/11 (11vr, 11ps, 10bs)

I applied (very late) this round and received one interview from my state school - that school subsequently rejected me and when I called to ask them why, they pointed to my lack of clinical experience (working on it) and suggested I take some Upper Div. Great! Except that my premed advisors tell me that sometimes they say what they can to just get you off the phone faster and that I'm in a "grey area" where I could either:

1) take the upper div classes (at Harvard Extension) and, with a minimum of 20 credits over the next year, raise my sGPA to a 3.35 (and cGPA to 3.46), OR
2) matriculate into a SMP (just received an unofficial acceptance into Gtown) and kick its ass.

The advisors believe I'd do well in the SMP given my MCAT and recent science performance, but still, I have my reservations about uprooting my life/leaving my support system (I know I'll have to sometime, and am totally willing to...for med school) and sinking that kind of $$ into a "grey area"

Anyways I'd really love to hear you all weigh in on my situation, since its causing me a LOT of anxiety at the moment! Thanks in advance!

 

[premedgal89]

Is that 2.9 counting only the last 60 hours? If you got A's and B+'s you should have a 3.x.[/QUOTE]

I got A's and B's in the classes that I retook. the 2.9 counts most of those classes, however I have received 4 C's along the way in other classes.

 

[DrMidlife]

My MCAT score was a 24. That's the only time I have taken it so far. As far as going to medical school I am confident that I can work hard and get through it since it has been my life long dream. What mainly lowered my gpa was Organic Chemistry. Do you suggest taking that over?

C'mon, you didn't have a great GPA except for ochem. 4 years of undergrad isn't trashed by one course sequence.

You should conquer organic chem, so that you can do well on the MCAT, and so that you aren't crushed in med school by more difficult content coming at you 5x as fast. That's before we start talking about the grade you get in ochem.

Taking the MCAT multiple times says you need multiple times to do well on hard tests. Like the boards. You were poorly advised to take the MCAT before mastering the prereqs. You would be poorly advised to proceed to an SMP before mastering the prereqs and getting a competitive MCAT score.

I suggest looking into the stats tables for MD and DO schools. 3.0 is more than two standard deviations below the average for both. 24 is 3-4 points below average for DO, 7-8 below for MD. Most people would give up, with your GPA & MCAT, against those averages. But a successful GPA comeback starts, continues for years, and finishes with a whole lot of not giving up.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

I got A's and B's in the classes that I retook. the 2.9 counts most of those classes, however I have received 4 C's along the way in other classes.

I think you know you need to get to a success level where you get A's & B's on your first take of all your classes. You'll need to do this for 1-2 years, full time, consecutive, to demonstrate that you're up for the rigor of med school. Are you up for that?

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

1) take the upper div classes (at Harvard Extension) and, with a minimum of 20 credits over the next year, raise my sGPA to a 3.35 (and cGPA to 3.46), OR
2) matriculate into a SMP (just received an unofficial acceptance into Gtown) and kick its ass.

What's an unofficial Gtown acceptance? Do you mean a waitlist?

The advisors believe I'd do well in the SMP given my MCAT and recent science performance, but still, I have my reservations about uprooting my life/leaving my support system (I know I'll have to sometime, and am totally willing to...for med school) and sinking that kind of $$ into a "grey area"

If you do more undergrad, you have to rely on the eyeballs of strangers to weigh your last ~2 years of coursework more heavily than your first ~3 years. This can happen. Problem is you can't predict where those eyeballs are, or when. So the plan if you do another year of undergrad (HarvardX is a great choice) is to get your MD app submitted as early as possible to as many well-researched schools you can afford. Your best chance is at your state's public schools.

If you do an SMP instead, such as Gtown, you are less subject to variable eyeballs, because Gtown has a well-established reputation for proofing you as a med student. The SMP option is more of a lock, imho, assuming you can continue to perform at your recently established level of success. I suggest that from a 3.4/3.14, you should finish the SMP before you apply MD again.

If you get into a program like EVMS or Cincinnati, and you do well in the program, then there's less pressure to peddle your 3.4/3.14 out to other schools. SMPs like these (which put a LOT of their grads straight into the host MD school) would be faster, and Cincinnati is quite a bit cheaper than Gtown and can get you OH residency for instate tuition.

In either case, if you can squeeze another couple points out of the MCAT, that helps. 32S is terrific, but look for old posts from DrJD for motivation.

Note that if you were in California (public service announcement) you would need to do both more undergrad and finish an SMP to have a reasonable chance at a UC.

As a reapplicant, you carry the burden of bringing a substantial new asset to your app, and at least one new letter. Which works with either option.

Best of luck to you.

 

[atis]

Thanks for all of your insight DrMidlife!

I'm NOT a CA resident and though I wouldn't say no if it were my once acceptance, I ultimately don't want to go to my state school (NV, for a variety of reasons.)

I guess given this, and that fact that even if I get straight As for the next year at HES (a big if since upper div classes can be hard/variable), I'll still be sitting at a sGPA of 3.35, still at the low end of the matriculating spectrum...I should plan on a SMP for next year. I'm waiting on Tufts, too, which I know has less of an established rep, but I'd like to stay in Boston. I guess I will head over to the Tufts vs Gtown comparison threads!

What's an unofficial Gtown acceptance? Do you mean a waitlist?

I received an email saying I was accepted; I just have to wait for the official letter in the mail. Hopefully getting in there indicates that I'd be likely to get into Tufts as well. Thanks again for the input!

 

[bkprodigy]

Long story short,

My cGPA and sGPA were both around 2.62 upon graduation.
Then I worked in a trauma lab, performing large animal surgeries and pushing papers and posters.
It was time to do something right in my life so I began the repair process which comprises the following:
1. few online biotech courses: 4.0
2. 45 credits of 400 level undergraduate biology/biochemistry: 4.0
3. volunteer/shadow/etc etc
4. currently in an SMP: 4.0
5. MCAT: 33R (10PS, 9VR, 14BS)

This effort took me about 2.5 years, but got me into a US MD school.
My motto during this period was "just shut up and do it" .
I didn't complain, cry, nor give up. I researched if I didn't know, and just kept going at it.

Do the same and you'll get in too.

 

[davidb25]

Long story short,

My cGPA and sGPA were both around 2.62 upon graduation.
Then I worked in a trauma lab, performing large animal surgeries and pushing papers and posters.
It was time to do something right in my life so I began the repair process which comprises the following:
1. few online biotech courses: 4.0
2. 45 credits of 400 level undergraduate biology/biochemistry: 4.0
3. volunteer/shadow/etc etc
4. currently in an SMP: 4.0
5. MCAT: 33R (10PS, 9VR, 14BS)

This effort took me about 2.5 years, but got me into a US MD school.
My motto during this period was "just shut up and do it" .
I didn't complain, cry, nor give up. I researched if I didn't know, and just kept going at it.

Do the same and you'll get in too.

That's amazing. How did you go from a 2.6 to a 4.0, if you don't mind me asking? Trying different ways to approach your classes, etc.?

That's a really good MCAT score, had you already taken your MCAT pre-req's before doing your post-bac?

 

[JRGhatt]

Hey folks,

I'm a 4th year microbio/cell science major at University of Florida. I'll be graduating this May.
3.2 overall
3.0 science
26 MCAT (9P, 6V, 11B)

I plan on retaking the mcat at the end of May. I've got extensive research, shadowing, volunteering, and I'm in a band that's active in a lot of philanthropy events.

I'm currently trying to decide between applying to medical schools this cycle or finding an SMP program.
I don't really know much about smp programs (which ones are worth applying to or which ones am I likely to get into).

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[Agtongue]

Long story short,

My cGPA and sGPA were both around 2.62 upon graduation.
Then I worked in a trauma lab, performing large animal surgeries and pushing papers and posters.
It was time to do something right in my life so I began the repair process which comprises the following:
1. few online biotech courses: 4.0
2. 45 credits of 400 level undergraduate biology/biochemistry: 4.0
3. volunteer/shadow/etc etc
4. currently in an SMP: 4.0
5. MCAT: 33R (10PS, 9VR, 14BS)

This effort took me about 2.5 years, but got me into a US MD school.
My motto during this period was "just shut up and do it" .
I didn't complain, cry, nor give up. I researched if I didn't know, and just kept going at it.

Do the same and you'll get in too.

congratulations and I love your motto lol

 

[bkprodigy]

That's amazing. How did you go from a 2.6 to a 4.0, if you don't mind me asking? Trying different ways to approach your classes, etc.?

That's a really good MCAT score, had you already taken your MCAT pre-req's before doing your post-bac?

I was a bio major and had already taken pre-reqs. But in my case, it was almost worthless because I nearly failed all those classes.

Doing in-depth research opened my perspective and the way I see things in biology. During the repair process, I never "tried" to get an A in a particular course. I just tried to learn as much as possible. Also, I seldom took notes. Note taking was done in my head which made learning more dynamic. I still don't take notes in med school courses. What works for me doesn't mean it'll work for everyone though. Everyone has their own way of learning.

 

[davidb25]

I was a bio major and had already taken pre-reqs. But in my case, it was almost worthless because I nearly failed all those classes.

Doing in-depth research opened my perspective and the way I see things in biology. During the repair process, I never "tried" to get an A in a particular course. I just tried to learn as much as possible. Also, I seldom took notes. Note taking was done in my head which made learning more dynamic. I still don't take notes in med school courses. What works for me doesn't mean it'll work for everyone though. Everyone has their own way of learning.

I kinda like your way of thinking. When I take notes, I usually don't even review them later, it's more of a keep myself engaged type of deal.

 

[johnnyscans]

I kinda like your way of thinking. When I take notes, I usually don't even review them later, it's more of a keep myself engaged type of deal.

I find this method works for certain types of classes, and doesn't for others. I barely take any notes in my physics class. I write down key equations and derivations, but most of my "studying" is done by hammering out practice problems.

Cell biology, on the other hand and in my opinion, requires active note taking. There's simply no hope of memorizing all of the different proteins and pathways just through active listening.

To each his own though.

 

[bkprodigy]

I find this method works for certain types of classes, and doesn't for others. I barely take any notes in my physics class. I write down key equations and derivations, but most of my "studying" is done by hammering out practice problems.

Cell biology, on the other hand and in my opinion, requires active note taking. There's simply no hope of memorizing all of the different proteins and pathways just through active listening.

To each his own though.

Sure you can, you just have to do it more than a couple times which at the end saves much more time than taking notes. But like you said, each to his own.

 

[confidence1985]

Hi,

My culmative gpa is 3.3 and my science is 3.2. I got a 32O on my mcat. 10phy, 12 verbal, 10 bio. I have no research, but alot of volunteering, and clinical experience. I am cambodian so I know some schools consider myself as a urm. I am going to apply disadvantaged (low-income, I was expelled out of my highschool sophmore year, younger brother shot and two time felon, younger sister developed schizophernia while I was in school, etc.).I actually have two questions. One what do you think my chances are and second how many posters and students have similar backgrounds or stories to myself. I just always wondered that. thanks.

 

[Fitzy]

Hi ladies and gentlemen,

3.1 cGPA undergrad
3.1 sGPA undergrad
37Q
slightly above average ECs
4.0 GPA in Post bacc Masters of Physiology (Non-thesis) at large public university. 36 hours of upper division science and graduate level science.
Planning for SMP (Gtown, Cincy, Tufts, Loyola, VCU) for fall 2013

My question is, for my non-thesis masters of physiology, do I include undergrad level classes taken in the curriculum in my undergrad GPA or is it considered separate? If I average my post bacc GPA with my Undergrad GPA it comes to 3.48. But I also know that graduate level classes are like apples and oranges.

Should I continue taking post bacc classes this coming year?

Thanks!

 

[ahsansad]

Dr. Midlife,

Hope you are well. I already graduated from a 4 yr institution with 2.996 GPA 3.50 SGPA and 37O MCat. My ECs are good. I was looking into SMPs but they are so expensive that I can not afford them if I sell my kidney. I already have 30 K loan. At this point, I was considering taking a whole year and a summer of hard sciences at a community college. Do med schools look down upon community college classes after graduation?

 

[johnnyscans]

Dr. Midlife,

Hope you are well. I already graduated from a 4 yr institution with 2.996 GPA 3.50 SGPA and 37O MCat. My ECs are good. I was looking into SMPs but they are so expensive that I can not afford them if I sell my kidney. I already have 30 K loan. At this point, I was considering taking a whole year and a summer of hard sciences at a community college. Do med schools look down upon community college classes after graduation?

Do whatever it takes to get your cGPA above a 3.0 with 4 year university classes. Where do you live? There are cheap options if you look around. 3.0cGPA/3.5sGPA/37MCAT (if you show upward trend and have strong ECs/LORs/etc) should get you in.

 

[DrMidlife]

Hi,

My culmative gpa is 3.3 and my science is 3.2. I got a 32O on my mcat. 10phy, 12 verbal, 10 bio. I have no research, but alot of volunteering, and clinical experience. I am cambodian so I know some schools consider myself as a urm. I am going to apply disadvantaged (low-income, I was expelled out of my highschool sophmore year, younger brother shot and two time felon, younger sister developed schizophernia while I was in school, etc.).I actually have two questions. One what do you think my chances are and second how many posters and students have similar backgrounds or stories to myself. I just always wondered that. thanks.

Is this a question about odds for getting into a postbac? Are you applying directly to med school or to an SMP? Your odds are good for an SMP, not so good for med school.

You can find stats on med school applicants' racial backgrounds on aamc.org. You can find a million stories about disadvantaged applicants by looking for them all over SDN, using the search function. Generally all med school applicants believe they are truly unique; you're on the unique end of the continuum with plenty of company.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Hi ladies and gentlemen,

3.1 cGPA undergrad
3.1 sGPA undergrad
37Q
slightly above average ECs
4.0 GPA in Post bacc Masters of Physiology (Non-thesis) at large public university. 36 hours of upper division science and graduate level science.
Planning for SMP (Gtown, Cincy, Tufts, Loyola, VCU) for fall 2013

My question is, for my non-thesis masters of physiology, do I include undergrad level classes taken in the curriculum in my undergrad GPA or is it considered separate? If I average my post bacc GPA with my Undergrad GPA it comes to 3.48. But I also know that graduate level classes are like apples and oranges.

Should I continue taking post bacc classes this coming year?

Thanks!

I recommend not using the word "postbac" at all. Grad or undergrad.

Whatever you do, protect that MCAT score. Can you try to start an SMP this fall instead of waiting a year?

Undergrad courses that apply to a grad degree count as grad. Page 39 here: the AMCAS instructions.

Assign Graduate (GR) status to any professional or graduate-level coursework that is not applied to an undergraduate degree.

More undergrad is appropriate if you got a C or worse in a prereq, or if you can (make yourself) take enough additional undergrad to raise your GPA.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Dr. Midlife,

Hope you are well. I already graduated from a 4 yr institution with 2.996 GPA 3.50 SGPA and 37O MCat. My ECs are good. I was looking into SMPs but they are so expensive that I can not afford them if I sell my kidney. I already have 30 K loan. At this point, I was considering taking a whole year and a summer of hard sciences at a community college. Do med schools look down upon community college classes after graduation?

Are you selling a kidney for med school? Med school has a price tag of about $250k. You're expected to borrow most of that from federal sources that accomodate low/no payments during residency. (Also: street value of a kidney is what, $60k?)

SMPs have a price tag of about $50k. You're expected to borrow most of that from federal sources that accomodate low/no payments during residency. An SMP that doesn't grant a degree is more likely to require private loans (Tulane ACP, VCU), but these tend to be substantially less expensive.

I suggest that taking community college courses casts suspicion on the rigor of your studies. Med schools have varying policies on CC coursework, but I strongly recommend against a CC on a GPA comeback (except for one or two warmup classes in math or English prior to multiple years of additional university work).

With your cuGPA below 3.0, you are seriously disadvantaged in both SMP and med school admissions. It would be worth it to get A's in a couple more undergrad classes (such as biochem etc.) at a university prior to applying to an SMP.

If you want to do US MD, you simply have to do more schooling because of your cuGPA. You can look at a 2nd bachelors, or you can look at an SMP. Traditional graduate study would be a risky choice, since it does not directly provide an asset that is easy to understand in med school admissions.

Meanwhile, your MCAT score expires in 2-4 years depending on the med school. Plan accordingly.

Best of luck to you.

 

[drinkmorewine]

Long story short,

My cGPA and sGPA were both around 2.62 upon graduation.
Then I worked in a trauma lab, performing large animal surgeries and pushing papers and posters.
It was time to do something right in my life so I began the repair process which comprises the following:
1. few online biotech courses: 4.0
2. 45 credits of 400 level undergraduate biology/biochemistry: 4.0
3. volunteer/shadow/etc etc
4. currently in an SMP: 4.0
5. MCAT: 33R (10PS, 9VR, 14BS)

This effort took me about 2.5 years, but got me into a US MD school.
My motto during this period was "just shut up and do it" .
I didn't complain, cry, nor give up. I researched if I didn't know, and just kept going at it.

Do the same and you'll get in too.

What was the purpose of the online courses? Did they help at all?

 

[bkprodigy]

What was the purpose of the online courses? Did they help at all?

I've been off the school for sometime, so those easy online classes "got me going". But now I think back, I shoud've jumped into a hard undergrad post-bac right away and saved time.

A piece of advice to those with crappy GPA who want to get into an SMP without any significant undergrad work:
Even IF if you get in somehow, it's likely that you haven't built a solid way to consistently get good grades. Med school courses are not easy. It takes discipline as well as background knowledge. Because of the background knowledge that I possess and the study habit that I've built over the years, I am now able to ease through the first year materials. All of this translates into less stress, better retention of materials for the step 1, and is just good for the self-esteem when you're performing at the top of the class.

 

[lesset01]

Hi DrMidlife,

I'm on again/off again on these forums, but finally have a question that I think I'm ready to put out there...

I will graduate this May with my BS in molecular biology from my state university and plan to apply to medical school (primarily MD because i would like to go into ophtho) this summer
Cum GPA: 2.9
Sci GPA: ~3.2 (possibly higher but haven't recalculated yet)
MCAT: 30 (8 PS/11 BS/11 V)
UCM female, non-trad

Started undergrad in 2001, left in 2005 with a GPA of 1.68, took a break, grew up, started working full time for a ophthalmic surgeon
Started back in 2009 at local community college (due to cost $70/credit hr vs $370/credit hr), then back to university in 2011
I've maintained a 4.0 GPA since going back to school and continue to work full time hours as a ophthalmic surgery tech/scrub. I don't have a lot of volunteering since my schedule for the last 3 years has been work 7-4 M-F followed by class 4-10pm 3-4 days each week, but I managed to volunteer as a religion teacher at my church in the 2 years before going back to school and I did a few things here and there through my job. I plan to shadow some primary care docs as soon as school lets out.

I've been accepted to both the MPH program at KU and the MS biomedical sciences SMP at KCUMB for the fall. My dilemma lies in which to choose? I've been reading up on other posts on here and the general consensus seems to be to do the SMP if you need the GPA boost, but I guess I'm just looking for confirmation since my "upward trend " is what it is. The cost of the SMP is SO much more than the MPH! Plus I'd have to quit working at the end of the summer and if I do the MPH I could still work at least a couple days a week until next year when I (hopefully) start medical school which is a whole other issue in and of itself. Anyway, thanks in advance for your time.

 

[bigloley]

Before doing an SMP/MPH first get your cum GPA above 3.0. Your work experience will make up for the lack of volunteering.

Hi DrMidlife,

I'm on again/off again on these forums, but finally have a question that I think I'm ready to put out there...

I will graduate this May with my BS in molecular biology from my state university and plan to apply to medical school (primarily MD because i would like to go into ophtho) this summer
Cum GPA: 2.9
Sci GPA: ~3.2 (possibly higher but haven't recalculated yet)
MCAT: 30 (8 PS/11 BS/11 V)
UCM female, non-trad

Started undergrad in 2001, left in 2005 with a GPA of 1.68, took a break, grew up, started working full time for a ophthalmic surgeon
Started back in 2009 at local community college (due to cost $70/credit hr vs $370/credit hr), then back to university in 2011
I've maintained a 4.0 GPA since going back to school and continue to work full time hours as a ophthalmic surgery tech/scrub. I don't have a lot of volunteering since my schedule for the last 3 years has been work 7-4 M-F followed by class 4-10pm 3-4 days each week, but I managed to volunteer as a religion teacher at my church in the 2 years before going back to school and I did a few things here and there through my job. I plan to shadow some primary care docs as soon as school lets out.

I've been accepted to both the MPH program at KU and the MS biomedical sciences SMP at KCUMB for the fall. My dilemma lies in which to choose? I've been reading up on other posts on here and the general consensus seems to be to do the SMP if you need the GPA boost, but I guess I'm just looking for confirmation since my "upward trend " is what it is. The cost of the SMP is SO much more than the MPH! Plus I'd have to quit working at the end of the summer and if I do the MPH I could still work at least a couple days a week until next year when I (hopefully) start medical school which is a whole other issue in and of itself. Anyway, thanks in advance for your time.

 

[DrMidlife]

UCM female, non-trad

No idea what UCM means.

I've been accepted to both the MPH program at KU and the MS biomedical sciences SMP at KCUMB for the fall. My dilemma lies in which to choose?

I don't like either.

The MPH won't help you get into med school. In a perfect-stats, no-maturity candidate, an MPH adds flavor. In a low-stats, upward-trend non-trad, the MPH does nothing.

If you do a KCUMB program, imho, you're committing to DO. I think all the MS programs at DO schools are 2 years, and frankly, I think you're overqualified.

Suggestions below.

I've been reading up on other posts on here and the general consensus seems to be to do the SMP if you need the GPA boost, but I guess I'm just looking for confirmation since my "upward trend " is what it is. The cost of the SMP is SO much more than the MPH! Plus I'd have to quit working at the end of the summer and if I do the MPH I could still work at least a couple days a week until next year when I (hopefully) start medical school which is a whole other issue in and of itself.

Well, honestly I think you might be able to get into an MD school now. You need to apply broadly and very early to get anybody to look at you with a cumulative 2.9. But then when people look at your last few years of effort, and your MCAT, you've got a nicely taken-care-of burden of academic proof.

In your shoes I think I'd apply MD with what you have. I'd get cracking on letters of recommendation and a personal statement, and apply to every school in your state on June 5 2012. If neighboring states are friendly to your state, apply to neighboring state schools as well.

And I think I'd spend the app year hedging my bets. I'd do a real SMP starting Fall 2012 (most deadlines have passed already, get going). I'd try to get a few more points on the MCAT before the SMP starts. I'd try to get more breadth in clinical exposure, such as volunteering in an ER or public health clinic.

If your first MD app year doesn't go too well, then you have a completed SMP, a better MCAT, more breadth of exposure, and a year to work during your 2nd app year. The cost of an SMP is likely the difference for you in DO vs. MD, so give that some thought. I expect you could have a DO acceptance before the end of this summer, and not have to do anything else, if you want to go in that direction.

Before doing an SMP/MPH first get your cum GPA above 3.0. Your work experience will make up for the lack of volunteering.

I seriously doubt that 3.0+ cuGPA is possible, given an apparent 4 years of 1.68 followed by another several years of undergrad. After that much undergrad, with such a killer multiple-year upward trend in a hard science major, it's hard to argue for more undergrad. If 2-3 more undergrad classes would break 3.0, fine, maybe, otherwise it's not worth it.

Best of luck to you.

 

[lesset01]

Haha, sorry, typo! I meant URM! (Latino-El Salvador) Thank you so much for your input, DrMidlife! The Biomedical Science MS degree at KCUMB can be 1 year or 2 depending on which track you choose. And you pretty much nailed my biggest concern after the cost of their program - I'm afraid I'll be locked into DO school there if I go. When I went to their open house they sort of touched on some unofficial linkage with KU Med, sounded like pretty much all the adcom people knew each other. I know my best bet at getting accepted to MD school is at KU Med because I'm in state, that's why I thought the MPH might help, but I'm glad to get some confirmation that it probably will not.

I do have great LORs from the surgeons that I work for who are associate clinical professors at KU and my advisor who is the director of the biology dept at my campus. I'm lined up to start translating at the local free health clinic next month and I just need to finalize dates to shadow some primary care docs since 100% of my experience is ophthalmology.

That damned MCAT! To be honest, I'm not too disappointed in that score considering I had to study for it in my "free time" between work and school and I hadn't taken physics since 2001. But with the extra time to study if I don't do either program, I know I could definitely bring it up at least 2-3 points.

Thanks again for your insight! I've been working really hard to make it to this point and it's good to hear that it's paid off (even if I'm still teetering on the edge).

 

[DrMidlife]

Haha, sorry, typo! I meant URM!

Then definitely apply MD this June.

 

[Tayne]

I'm figuring out my schedule for next Fall, and I'm debating taking an upper division class, biophysical chemistry, vs. re-taking Orgo I, in which I got a C- . I wound up getting a B+ in Orgo II, if that's relevant.

I understand that M.D. schools don't do grade replacement, but since Orgo is considered one of the main required classes of pre-meds, I'm wondering if it's important that I re-take it to prove that I can master the material. Or would it be more helpful just to take (and get a good grade in) the biophysical chemistry class? Thanks!

 

[Mquinn123]

So I am about to graduate undergrad with cGPA: 3.62, sGPA: 3.58, and 28 MCAT. I would say my ECs are above average, with strong LORs. I have been accepted to a well thought of SMP program, but still plan on applying to medical school this summer (MD/DO). Will attending an SMP program during my application process help me gain admissions? Would I benefit just as much from doing research for a year? Are my stats already good enough to get me into medical school? I welcome everybody's opinion and I thank you in advance!

 

[Shalashaska]

This is a low GPA thread, not the average matriculant GPA thread. An SMP would be a waste of time and money for you. You should go ahead and apply; if you feel your application is insufficient, why not take a year off.

 

[SixStringPsych]

stevenwithaV, I think most people here would tell you to retake Orgo I because you can't have a grade lower than a C in the pre-reqs when you apply to medical school (I believe). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

At least at my ugrad school, C is the passing grade (passing meaning you may move on to Orgo II).

 

[DoctaSleepy]

stevenwithaV, I think most people here would tell you to retake Orgo I because you can't have a grade lower than a C in the pre-reqs when you apply to medical school (I believe). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

At least at my ugrad school, C is the passing grade (passing meaning you may move on to Orgo II).

'C or above' is pretty standard across the board for pre-reqs to count. Better to take care of that loose end now rather than getting screened out.

 

[Tayne]

'C or above' is pretty standard across the board for pre-reqs to count. Better to take care of that loose end now rather than getting screened out.

Thanks for the responses. I was actually wondering about this question a while back -- whether C- is considered a passing grade -- because I couldn't find a consensus answer by searching SDN. I called 4 medical schools in NY and they told me that while C- obviously isn't a good grade, it was still considered a pass to them. Seeing this is just making me confused again!

I appreciate any more input on my previous question!

 

[DoctaSleepy]

Thanks for the responses. I was actually wondering about this question a while back -- whether C- is considered a passing grade -- because I couldn't find a consensus answer by searching SDN. I called 4 medical schools in NY and they told me that while C- obviously isn't a good grade, it was still considered a pass to them. Seeing this is just making me confused again!

I appreciate any more input on my previous question!

No hard-and-fast rule to my knowledge, as these things vary depending on the school. If you're only interested in a select few, your approach makes sense - call and ask them directly. If you're applying broadly (recommended), it would be beneficial to retake it and be in the clear. In your position, I'd retake either way.

 

[SixStringPsych]

Yeah most definitely retake...if your sGPA or cGPA are low then you're going to want to apply broadly, so you'll want that grade to be above a C to ensure you get the maximum amount of responses from med schools.

If your GPA is great aside from the one grade, you may still want to consider the retake, but given that you posted in the low GPA thread, I'm assuming your GPA is subpar.