The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

[pollyannaish]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hello Guys,

I am an Art major and I graduated with a GPA of 3.18 (~3.2). Although a Graphic Designer by profession I have recently developed interest in the health-care field. This year I am applying to Post-Bac Premed programs to make up for my lack of a Science background.

My question is if my low Undergraduate GPA will effect my admission to a medical school, or will the GPA I acquire in the Post-Bac program hold more value, since it would correctly reflect my aptitude in a Science program?

According to my calculations if I were to get straight A's in all my Science courses then that would raise my GPA to 3.4 (combined with my Undergraduate GPA). What are my chances of getting into a med school in that case? Does the admissions committee pay more attention to the combined GPA rather than the individual college GPA?

I have about six months of research experience (volunteer) at an organization that designs educational applications for children with learning disorders, what sort of additional health-care research/clinical experience should I gather to strengthen my application with my current GPA?

During the course of my Post-Bac program who should I approach for recommendation letters, apart from my Science professors that would reflect my interest in the field?

Any advice that you may have is greatly appreciated! Thank you 🙂

 

[TyrKinase]

According to my calculations if I were to get straight A's in all my Science courses then that would raise my GPA to 3.4 (combined with my Undergraduate GPA). What are my chances of getting into a med school in that case? Does the admissions committee pay more attention to the combined GPA rather than the individual college GPA?

It would be nice if it worked that way, but it doesn't. They look at the whole package (cumulative or cGPA, science or sGPA, MCAT, letters, extra-curriculars). If you haven't taken any science courses and you manage to get a 4.0, your cGPA will be lower than average for MD schools, but your sGPA will be impressive at 4.0.

I have about six months of research experience (volunteer) at an organization that designs educational applications for children with learning disorders, what sort of additional health-care research/clinical experience should I gather to strengthen my application with my current GPA?

Anything that puts you in touch with patients would be great. You also want to aim to do it for a significant amount of time (not just a couple weekends at a clinic, but a months-long commitment, even if its a few hours a week).

During the course of my Post-Bac program who should I approach for recommendation letters, apart from my Science professors that would reflect my interest in the field?

Different schools have different requirements for letters of recommendation, but generally three are required, with two from science professors. Do your best to make sure that the letter writers have lots of glowing things to say about you, your decision to change careers, etc. It's easy enough to get a letter, but getting a good letter can require more time (office visits, discussions about your future goals, your professor's interests, etc)

Good luck!

 

[klassicBeauty]

Ok, DrMidLife, I did read your advice and it was on-point--as usual--as you give great advice anyway. Being that MY biggest issue outside of my gpa and MCAT is financial obligation...I have decided to wait another cycle or two to apply.

Further advice from people I work with--as a work-study student--I have been advised to wait about 28 or 29 to apply, Im currently 24...will be 25 in Dec.

I attend UAB--I'm here "attempting" to do an informal post-bacc but with DrMidLife advice calculated the numbers and it will take 72 hrs on top of my 154 hrs to get my gpa to 3.4 and 108 hrs to get it to 3.5 and a whopping---199 hrs to get it to 3.7 which is avg gpa for med schools nowadays!

I have read over many post telling people NOT to do RN or such for financial reasons and that it only elongates time and is a waste of time and adcoms will not like it much but I want to know, What else could a person do?

No one is hiring! I have put in more than 100+ apps for employment since May 2008 when I graduated with first Bachelor. Don't get me wrong, I welcome advice but sometimes I don't think people "truly" understand how financial matters can trump everything else.

So, what I wanted to do was take classes on full-time basis and work full or part time--or go to school part time and work part time.

But, NO ONE IS HIRING---unless you have the certification and/or experience which puts a lot of people like me in an awful situation

If at all possible, I do not want to prolong the medical app/school experience any further if can be avoided.

So, I have checked into community colleges that offer skill/trade programs and the problem there is you have to pay up front but the positive about the programs are that you do not have to take all year to get certified. Classes offered are like Pharm Tech, Phlebotomy, Medical Billing and Coding, Medical Transcription..etc

The other option is teach. I have heard this from friends and teachers that I work with--I am currently an America Reads tutor. Options are at best: Urban Teach program at UAB and/or Teach for America. Only negative, most of science classes at UAB are not offered in the evening so it would greatly limit my ability to take classes.

Most other technical/skill based programs last a year or more which mean another year of unemployment. I thought about LPN, CNA, EMT.

My options really are:

Nursing--RN,LPN,CNA,--which is NOT popular on this website to do
Education--Teach for America--2yr obligation, Urban program at UAB
Certificate programs--Pharm tech, Phlebotomy, Medical Bill, Code, Transcrip, Med Assist, Paralegal

If someone can give me a better option I would love to hear it really, as this is all I know right now and I dont know it all.

I currently stay with my parents and they are buying their own home and I wont be able to get financial support from them for school as we are already in lower socioeconomic bracket as is. I do not have any children but want to live on my mown, straighten out my credit--important for med school loans, and pay on loans from my first bachelor degree, and money to save for this costly cycle. Also, being that I have a previous bachelor, I still will need money to take classes at UAB regardless and SMP is out of the question because my MCAT would be expired and too low for their criteria

You guys and girls, I know I am climbing an uphill battle by having a 3.16 gpa and low MCAT, I know my plight is going to be tough and yet I know medicine is for me and what is my passion no matter how cliche it may be. I have taken peer academic cousneling here, and time management programs to revamp my study skills and habits as well as time managing and organizing skills. So, I would like to continue to do this academic enhancing WHILE I work if possible so that is what I am essentially asking: Are there any flexible, decent-paying jobs that I could possibly do--if they are hiring--that will allow me to complete upper level science classes?

---Sorry for long post!

 

[shater]

hello, i really need any one to tell me what should i do bec im so shocked by my wes report ..........i got wes evalution of 2.39 gpa and my orginal forgein gpa is 2.4....would like anyone who have any idea on how to deal with such situation im in😡😡 did anyone pass to such situations where he/she get even less gpa with wes than what he got in his forgein degree. i even when calculated my gpa acording to wes report it should be 2.47 even not as what it is written in wes report...i need any advices on what i should do in such situation

 

[DrMidlife]

hello, i really need any one to tell me what should i do bec im so shocked by my wes report ..........i got wes evalution of 2.39 gpa and my orginal forgein gpa is 2.4....would like anyone who have any idea on how to deal with such situation im in😡😡 did anyone pass to such situations where he/she get even less gpa with wes than what he got in his forgein degree. i even when calculated my gpa acording to wes report it should be 2.47 even not as what it is written in wes report...i need any advices on what i should do in such situation

I suggest trying an international forum. We rarely get foreign transcript evaluation questions here - not much expertise to share.

I can't imagine a situation where a 2.47 vs. a 2.39 would matter, regardless.

Best of luck to you.

 

[shater]

I suggest trying an international forum. We rarely get foreign transcript evaluation questions here - not much expertise to share.

I can't imagine a situation where a 2.47 vs. a 2.39 would matter, regardless.

Best of luck to you.

thx for ur reply but the point is even the gpa in wes report wasn't done right and what they did is just give me the same gpa as i already got from my forgein degree....im just wondering where is the evaluation then is done .....and need any advice of what i should do now?...plz can u provide me the link of the international forum to discuss it with others bec im totally depressed and feel im so doomed now 😡

 

[jslo85]

thx for ur reply but the point is even the gpa in wes report wasn't done right and what they did is just give me the same gpa as i already got from my forgein degree....im just wondering where is the evaluation then is done .....and need any advice of what i should do now?...plz can u provide me the link of the international forum to discuss it with others bec im totally depressed and feel im so doomed now 😡

It's on the board index under international students with sub forums of different regions in the world.

From looking at your status on your profile it says you're a dental student and if so, I would most likely stay where you're at because with your GPA, it is near impossible to imagine a probable/realistic situation where you could enter a US dental school with those stats. Get a new major maybe? What was your DAT score? Just tossing out ideas but if you can get it to a 2.85 and a great DAT score you could try for the Barry SMP to get into Nova dental?

 

[MDMBS]

Dr Midlife, Tyrkinase, others: Do you have any advice for me?

The thread with my future application is here:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=708958

I am finishing 1 year postbac (expect at or near 4.0 this semester), will continue research this spring/summer and probably up until I apply, will take biochemistry 2nd half of this summer, will pre-study for my future SMP with last year's slides first half this summer, will do secondary essays for my future apps first half of this summer.

This fall & next spring I do SMP (which I'm doing in three semesters). Next June applying to between 20 and 40 schools... Fall 2011 Finish up SMP, get ready to write update letters everywhere when my fall SMP grades are out.

Hopefully, since I will have applied june 1st and handed in secondaries within a week, i will have heard back from a few schools before January 2012. Regardless, I plan on doing a semester abroad in Spain perfecting my conversational Spanish then. If I need to interview I will fly back to the states. I will network with Spanish hospitals and obtain a hospital job in Spain by the time the spring 2012 semester ends, and stick around in Spain over the summer perfecting my Spanish in a medical setting. Fall 2012 I will be in an MD program, be it in the US or at SGU.

Your thoughts?

 

[shater]

It's on the board index under international students with sub forums of different regions in the world.

From looking at your status on your profile it says you're a dental student and if so, I would most likely stay where you're at because with your GPA, it is near impossible to imagine a probable/realistic situation where you could enter a US dental school with those stats. Get a new major maybe? What was your DAT score? Just tossing out ideas but if you can get it to a 2.85 and a great DAT score you could try for the Barry SMP to get into Nova dental?

hello, im dental graduate from egypt with gpa 2.4 and wes evalautions 2.39whixh so wired that they give me same gpa as my forgein gpa!! in which i feel so doomed now and want any advice on what steps i should follow to raise my gpa in usa before i apply to any dental schools.....for the DAT i haven't taken dat yet as im in my intership year in home country ...i need real dvice and what u mean i get new major bec i want be a dentist !! 😡 thx in advance

 

[jslo85]

hello, im dental graduate from egypt with gpa 2.4 and wes evalautions 2.39whixh so wired that they give me same gpa as my forgein gpa!! in which i feel so doomed now and want any advice on what steps i should follow to raise my gpa in usa before i apply to any dental schools.....for the DAT i haven't taken dat yet as im in my intership year in home country ...i need real dvice and what u mean i get new major bec i want be a dentist !! 😡 thx in advance

First of all, please stop spamming other threads with this comment.

I have seen at least 7+ threads with you randomly posting about this. Keep it isolated and if someone answers your question then cool. You see the number bar beside it on how many view it? With that many views and no responses, you should be able to get an idea of what Dr. Midlife posted not too long ago. This is the wrong section to ask and you would have better luck in the international forum.

I really don't know what to do in your situation in following the dental path. Since AASDAS doesn't allow for retake grades to replace the original I'd say you're either in for 3-4 years of full time remedial science courses as a post-bacc before applying to a dental friendly SMP program OR kicking the DAT's ass when you take it and just do a new major (science related) and hope that schools will view the second far more than your first. I'd suggest you also post in the dental forum as most students here are pre-med and are unsure of how the dental application/school process.

 

[deleted248403]

jslo and midlife - i have been thru all of this with shater in this thread on a previous couple of pages, maybe a month or two ago. He doesn't quite seem to get it. He is beginning to become a troll

 

[deleted248403]

Regardless, I plan on doing a semester abroad in Spain perfecting my conversational Spanish then. If I need to interview I will fly back to the states. I will network with Spanish hospitals and obtain a hospital job in Spain by the time the spring 2012 semester ends, and stick around in Spain over the summer perfecting my Spanish in a medical setting. Fall 2012 I will be in an MD program, be it in the US or at SGU.

Just so you know, Spanish in Spain is different than the Spanish spoken here in the U.S... not massively, but definitely different.

As you mentioned, apply early and broadly and hope for the best

 

[bry627]

Hey read all these post has gotten me worried. I used to think I had a shot if I kept my grades up and did well on the MCATs, but I don't know any more. Here are my stats:
Major:
Chemistry with a concentration in Biochemistry
GPA:
2.66 (I have all A's and B's, but i received 2 F's due to family issues and paper work error i was supposed to get a W, but the paper work did not go through and I didn't attend the classes for half the semester. I'm still in the process of fighting those.)

EMT-B license (but this has expired and I haven't renewed it)

Steady volunteer work at Yale-New Haven and summer internship

Now I still have 2 years of school to complete where I can boost my GPA AND I have yet to take the MCATs.

What are my chances of getting into med school if my MCATs are in the high 30's?

btw I would prefer MD, but am not opposed to DO. Please share your thoughts with me!!!

 

[deleted248403]

So calculate where your GPA will be based on the next 2 years being at a 4.0 or a 3.7 so you get a feel where you will end up. I don't like recommending people assume they can get a 4.0 but it'll show you where you lie if you truly rock the next 2 years.

The top 7% of people get a 35 and above. Not to say you aren't one of them but a 2.66 isnt really indicative and too many believe they can rock the MCAT. The avg score is a 24 and the average applicant is a 27 and the average accepted med student is a 30.9. This puts in perspective where you can more realistically expect your scores to lie.

You could prob do some more work on your ECs too.

Figure out the GPA based on projected values and repost, and we can give more advice.

 

[klassicBeauty]

1

 

[deleted248403]

why are you reposting this?

And you can look for a research related entry level job to make some money

 

[klassicBeauty]

1

 

[deleted248403]

No one replied thats why I reposted---ppl do it all the time!

Not really - it happens very rarely here and its done even less often with mammoth posts like yours.

Anyways, you could consider moving to a better location for employment opportunities.
But if not, i'd do the education thing. I personally think the CNA route is a waste of time, as is anything in your certificate group. They might be jobs and pay, but they won't help your med school application much.
*I say this inclusive of CNAing as very few CNAs get meaningful contact and spend the majority of doing unproductive things*

 

[TyrKinase]

Dr Midlife, Tyrkinase, others: Do you have any advice for me?

The thread with my future application is here:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=708958

...

Hopefully, since I will have applied june 1st and handed in secondaries within a week, i will have heard back from a few schools before January 2012. Regardless, I plan on doing a semester abroad in Spain perfecting my conversational Spanish then. If I need to interview I will fly back to the states. I will network with Spanish hospitals and obtain a hospital job in Spain by the time the spring 2012 semester ends, and stick around in Spain over the summer perfecting my Spanish in a medical setting. Fall 2012 I will be in an MD program, be it in the US or at SGU.

Your thoughts?

This is pure conjecture on my part, as I've learned the little that I know just from reading what's been posted on here. That being said, I think it's safe to say that you're facing an uphill battle, even with a flawless performance in the SMP. Your post-bacc grades are fantastic, your MCAT is great and your ECs seem strong too. Your biggest liability is your sGPA and cGPA. I think having <3.0 in both columns might scare away a lot of medical schools.

You mentioned in your other thread that you re-took a few pre-reqs as a post-bacc student. Have you taken the time to calculate your GPA using the AACOMAS method? You may be a somewhat stronger DO applicant given the grade-replacement policy and if you're willing to consider attending SGU, you're making a mistake by not contemplating osteopathic schools as well. You're still below average GPA-wise for osteopathic schools, but they seem to have a soft spot for late bloomers and that pretty much describes you.

Good luck!

 

[klassicBeauty]

1

 

[deleted248403]

I do get your point - but ideally you'd want something that supports yourself and helps the med school app. Sorry I was trying to think of a best case scenario for you...i'll try and think worse and less productive thoughts next time

 

[DrMidlife]

Job hunting right now is major suckage even for those with great resumes, so you'll have to be creative and probably humble. Might need to move. If you get health insurance and can pay rent, call it good. Crap jobs build character.

 

[shater]

jslo and midlife - i have been thru all of this with shater in this thread on a previous couple of pages, maybe a month or two ago. He doesn't quite seem to get it. He is beginning to become a troll

hello, there i just wanted to tell first of all it's nice that ppl advice each others and there is much effort been done here but i did posted here as im international dentist bec no one did reply me back in international forum on giving me more details about second bac for international dentist and like any links of programs .

 

[deleted248403]

Thats fine shater - but we've already advised you as best we can and now YOU need to go look for post-bac programs at schools you are INTERESTED in. I also told you to contact the American Embassy in your country (Egypt) to figure out what you need to do to come to the US on a education visa....

 

[klassicBeauty]

1

 

[DrMidlife]

Thanks DrMidlife; yes I'm as humble as they come...and have been applying to jobs that can afford at least a pay in rent would be great...with the attacks on healthcare and states suing..including mine, Alabama, I doubt I will have it...but will be no different---I haven't had it since 18 or whenever Medicaid drops you! But I will continue to look for things and thank you again!

I was talking about employer-provided health insurance, which can't be assumed available at smaller businesses and some medium ones. Insurance exchanges don't come online until I think 2014 - hopefully I'm wrong and it's earlier than that - but regardless your situation is too immediate to be helped by current legislative efforts.

 

[gujuDoc]

Dont really see a difference in my length of post and others but no need in arguing over a moot point. I guess you dont get my post because Im not seeking employment to put on my med app...I need employment to support myself but as I said before Thanks anyway!

I can understand the need to pay the bils but as far as health insurance, can't you just get school health insurance if you cant get a job with benefits?

 

[epione]

I personally think the CNA route is a waste of time, as is anything in your certificate group. They might be jobs and pay, but they won't help your med school application much.
*I say this inclusive of CNAing as very few CNAs get meaningful contact and spend the majority of doing unproductive things*

i'm a CNA right now and i don't feel like i spend the majority of my time doing unproductive things. i care for a man with an amputated foot, a woman with COPD and another woman with primary ALS. how much more patient contact can you get aside from being the lowest rung on the ladder? CNA's are the folks that spend the MOST time with the patients, cleaning up after them, feeding them, helping them to the bathroom, etc. yeah, it's not a glamorous life by any means, but every person in the medical field that i've talked to has applauded my decision to pursue this for now and some doctors i've talked to stated that they started out the exact same way.

being a CNA isn't a job and pay. it's crap wages and a LOT of work, and a lot of times that work is very unpleasant. but it definitely helps put a good perspective on the medical field. you have to love your patients and helping people to do this.

 

[DrMidlife]

I can understand the need to pay the bils but as far as health insurance, can't you just get school health insurance if you cant get a job with benefits?

If you're not enrolled full time in a degree-seeking program, you might not be eligible. Tulane ACP, where there's no degree earned, offers no health insurance, for example. In my postbac at a huge public school, I couldn't get health insurance as a "5th year" admitted student, but I could as a 2nd bachelors student.

 

[sepansk4]

Making my first post after much trolling and looking around the forum...here is where I stand after using the Excel GPA calc from the forum...cGPA 2.66 sGPA 2.54 with a total of 170 credit hours for DO school with replacement of grades my cGPA is 2.780 sGPA 2.836 with total credit hours 158 (transfered schools after 1.5 years and lost my credit for classes) no MCAT (took a practice last year and got a 31) I graduated from UG in Dec. 2008...I worked 35+ hrs a week while in UG (non health care related field) I have taken 1 post bac class (inc. in GPA calc) I have all pre reqs done...I just moved out to Arizona and hope to get into the MA Biomed science program at Midwestern in Glendale...what is the best recommended course of action? THANK YOU IN ADVANCE

 

[sepansk4]

Forgot to mention...I am completely open to DO programs as well as caribbean (would prefer DO since getting loans for foreign would be difficult for me)

 

[TyrKinase]

Making my first post after much trolling and looking around the forum...here is where I stand after using the Excel GPA calc from the forum...cGPA 2.66 sGPA 2.54 with a total of 170 credit hours for DO school with replacement of grades my cGPA is 2.780 sGPA 2.836 with total credit hours 158 (transfered schools after 1.5 years and lost my credit for classes) no MCAT (took a practice last year and got a 31) I graduated from UG in Dec. 2008...I worked 35+ hrs a week while in UG (non health care related field) I have taken 1 post bac class (inc. in GPA calc) I have all pre reqs done...I just moved out to Arizona and hope to get into the MA Biomed science program at Midwestern in Glendale...what is the best recommended course of action? THANK YOU IN ADVANCE

The MA in Biomedical Sciences at Midwestern seems to have a minimum GPA requirement of a 2.75GPA. You're kind of flirting with that border given your GPA calculations and a strong MCAT might help you make the case.

My two cents: unless you're sitting on a huge pile of cash, go to your state school of choice as a second bachelors student and re-take the pre-reqs you did poorly in, as well as some upper-division hard science courses (microbiology, physiology, biochemistry, etc). It will cost less than the ~$29k Midwestern tuition, boost your GPA to ~3.0 (assuming you get As in your retakes) and put you in a good stance to apply broadly to osteopathic schools a year from now. It would also allow you to do some more volunteering work, if your application is in need of it.

Good luck!

 

[juddrl]

Hello everyone. This is my first post.

I'm trying to find post bacc premed programs (I have no science and a low undergraduate gpa) that would be realistic to apply to given my stats. I'm 38, by the way.

undergrad; BA History 2.55 (122 credits)
graduate degree; M.S. education: 3.68 (48 credits)
2 more As since then in undergrad classes needed to satisfy my teaching license.
I teach at a public middle school in a large city. Before teaching, I owned a business for 6 years.

I know it's going to be rough but if there is any way, I plan to go for it. I really want to be a doctor.

Thanks for you advice.

 

[deleted248403]

Juddrl - so right now you have no chance of getting into medical school in the US but here is what you could do;

1) For allopathic
By my calculations, you'd need 55 credits at 4.0 of undergrad coursework to get your cGPA to a 3.0 which is minimum to apply for an SMP. Then at the SMP, you will obv have to do well and then apply to medical school and hope for the best.

2) Osteopathic
Repeat any class you got a C or lower in; they allow grade forgiveness. Then you'll still have to a bunch of upper level undergrad science classes and rock them. You may still need an SMP.

You MS doesn't count for much in med school apps (GPA wise) so it doesn't feature in here. The more undergrad sci classes you take the better (of the 55 credits) to impress them with you stellar science grades. Anything less than a 4.0 means more credits...

 

[juddrl]

Thank you for the reply. From what I've read, it would seem that a post bacc program would make more sense for me than an SMP, no? I know I can't get into an SMP right now and the path you mention puts another year or two on top of the 55 credits you mention. A post bacc would just be 2 years at most, right?

You mention in the US. What are the qualifications for a school outside the US that can still get you a decent residency in the US when you're done?

Thanks again.

Juddrl - so right now you have no chance of getting into medical school in the US but here is what you could do;

1) For allopathic
By my calculations, you'd need 55 credits at 4.0 of undergrad coursework to get your cGPA to a 3.0 which is minimum to apply for an SMP. Then at the SMP, you will obv have to do well and then apply to medical school and hope for the best.

2) Osteopathic
Repeat any class you got a C or lower in; they allow grade forgiveness. Then you'll still have to a bunch of upper level undergrad science classes and rock them. You may still need an SMP.

You MS doesn't count for much in med school apps (GPA wise) so it doesn't feature in here. The more undergrad sci classes you take the better (of the 55 credits) to impress them with you stellar science grades. Anything less than a 4.0 means more credits...

 

[DrMidlife]

Thanks for you advice.

My advice: start with one science or math class, through university extension or at a CC. If you can get an A, then take the next step. If you can't get an A in math/science, then don't take any more classes until you figure out how to get A's. Because you have a huge burden of proof between you and a med school acceptance, and you have to get A's in a boatload of seriously difficult undergrad coursework before you get to the really hard academic work in the first 2 years of med school.

Juddrl - so right now you have no chance of getting into medical school in the US but here is what you could do;

I agree w/everything he said.

If you can prove yourself in undergrad science, and if you do a really good job jumping through the traditional premed hoops, then your story will set you apart quite nicely. It doesn't set you apart until you've also demonstrated that you'll succeed in med school.

Best of luck to you.

 

[juddrl]

Not to dismiss the difficulty of the premed science and math, but I have no doubt that I will do well in these classes. The poor GPA stems from not taking school seriously after high school. The poor grades are over 15 years old. I got my act together later but this albatross is hanging heavy.

So, given my confidence in my abilities to do whatever is necessary to achieve As, what is my best move? Work towards DO school by bringing up my GPA with retakes? I would consider PA school if all options are off the table but if the door is still open to medical school, I really would do whatever it takes.

My advice: start with one science or math class, through university extension or at a CC. If you can get an A, then take the next step. If you can't get an A in math/science, then don't take any more classes until you figure out how to get A's. Because you have a huge burden of proof between you and a med school acceptance, and you have to get A's in a boatload of seriously difficult undergrad coursework before you get to the really hard academic work in the first 2 years of med school.


I agree w/everything he said.

If you can prove yourself in undergrad science, and if you do a really good job jumping through the traditional premed hoops, then your story will set you apart quite nicely. It doesn't set you apart until you've also demonstrated that you'll succeed in med school.

Best of luck to you.

 

[deleted248403]

Thank you for the reply. From what I've read, it would seem that a post bacc program would make more sense for me than an SMP, no? I know I can't get into an SMP right now and the path you mention puts another year or two on top of the 55 credits you mention. A post bacc would just be 2 years at most, right?

No, a post-bac would be like 13-yrs+ (you would need 385 credits at 4.0 to get your uGPA to a 3.65 which is the current avg for accepted med students). A post-bac is undergrad course work and as you can see, you are never going to get your UG GPA to be competitive.

Thus, you will be doing a post-bac of sorts (DIY) at a 4-yr school to get your cGPA to a 3.0 and then taking an SMP which is a hail-mary of sorts. If you do well in these graduate science classes/med school classes, then you have a good shot.

In terms of foreign schools, I don't know but your current cGPA won't get you into the "better" foreign schools which are the ones that give you a chance for a US residency

*edit - just realized that you prob haven;t done the prereqs (right?). Either way, you wont get into a post-bac now, unless you did a DIY one and even if you got a 4.0; your cGPA would still be sub-3.0 and you'd no be remotely competitive for US med schools. Thus, even tho u haven;t done the pre-reqs, the advice remains the same.

 

[DrMidlife]

Not to dismiss the difficulty of the premed science and math, but I have no doubt that I will do well in these classes.

We get that a lot around here. Doubt and fear are actually healthier than uber-confidence when you haven't taken much science before and your non-science GPA isn't great. I'm not trying to disparage you - I'm trying to set you up to succeed. Have you taken classes before where the minimum effort to succeed is 2-3 hours of focused study for every hour of lecture? A lot of very smart, capable, employable people don't make it through the prereqs.

what is my best move? Work towards DO school by bringing up my GPA with retakes? I would consider PA school if all options are off the table but if the door is still open to medical school, I really would do whatever it takes.

1. Start clocking clinical volunteering hours now. Take advantage of interesting opportunities to work within your community, and/or in healthcare and research.
2. Start reading the health pages in the NYT and WSJ every day.
3. Get an A in a math or science class.
4. Apply to a university for a 2nd bachelors so that you can have financial aid and registration priority.
5. Quit your job and go back to undergrad full time for 2 years. Get A's. Ideally finish a 2nd bachelors that includes all the med school prereqs plus biochem & genetics etc. If 2 more years of undergrad doesn't get you to a 3.0, your chances get painfully slim, imho.
6. Nurture relationships with faculty so that they know you and can recommend you in glowing letters.
7. Get a well above average score on the MCAT (MD 35+, DO 30+), by January of the year you'll finish your 2nd undergrad year (at the latest). Take the test once and only once, do it right.
8. As soon as October during your 2nd undergrad year, apply to SMPs with a complete AMCAS application.
9. Or take your time with the MCAT and take a gap year before starting an SMP.
10. Get killer grades in an SMP.
11. Either during your SMP or after you finish it, apply to med school.
12. Try not to think how much money you've already borrowed and how much more you'll borrow during med school.

Best of luck to you.

 

[juddrl]

I guess I'm a little confused. Wouldn't I need the classes required in a post bacc anyway, regardless if I am in a formal program or not? Then I could apply to DO schools (having also made up some poor grades) right after. Wouldn't it look better to come from a formal program when applying to DO schools? I don't know if there's even a program that will accept me to a post bacc yet. I did send out some applications a few days ago.

I do have a few things going for me: I do have the length of time since my poor performance, proven graduate level work recently; even though it doesn't apply for gpa, great letters of recommendation, an interesting story, and a great essay...

...but that undergraduate gpa is glaring and my age...

No, a post-bac would be like 13-yrs+ (you would need 385 credits at 4.0 to get your uGPA to a 3.65 which is the current avg for accepted med students). A post-bac is undergrad course work and as you can see, you are never going to get your UG GPA to be competitive.

Thus, you will be doing a post-bac of sorts (DIY) at a 4-yr school to get your cGPA to a 3.0 and then taking an SMP which is a hail-mary of sorts. If you do well in these graduate science classes/med school classes, then you have a good shot.

In terms of foreign schools, I don't know but your current cGPA won't get you into the "better" foreign schools which are the ones that give you a chance for a US residency

 

[deleted248403]

I do have a few things going for me: I do have the length of time since my poor performance, proven graduate level work recently; even though it doesn't apply for gpa, great letters of recommendation, an interesting story, and a great essay...

...but that undergraduate gpa is glaring and my age...

Not to be too dismissive, but not really...

You have no EC that count towards med school - no clinical experience, no medical experience, no volunteer work (that you've told us about) and no research (tho not required for med school, something like 40% of applicants have done research - number might be off).

Your grad school work isn't translatable at all to medicine in terms of content - a masters in education isnt the same world as a masters in biochemistry or something, and not in the same universe as med school.

Everyone has great LOR, and whilst teaching is cool; it isn't that cool teaching in the US. Teaching english in a foreign country and doing medical work might be a diff story.

Listen to DrMidlife - she started the med school process a little later than most and can relate to your situation.

Either way - if you want to go to the US, you are at least 3+ years from med school. And for foreign you are maybe 1.5 if you cram all the prereqs into one year and take the MCAT and do decently

 

[juddrl]

Thanks again for taking the time to give such detailed answers.

What would be the difference for me between a second bachelor's and a post bacc?

 

[deleted248403]

Post-bac wouldn't give you a degree.

A 2nd bachelors in a science would certainly help. It gets you the credits you need, it gets you the prereqs, you'll get financial aid should you need it, and you'll get advisors (which you wont get in a DIY post-bac).

Also start working on your ECs ASAP

 

[DrMidlife]

Thanks again for taking the time to give such detailed answers.

What would be the difference for me between a second bachelor's and a post bacc?

I hate the term "postbac" because it tends to obfuscate what you need to do.

What you need is:
1. To complete the undergrad science coursework required by most med schools: 1 year each with labs of bio/chem/ochem/physics.
2. To improve your undergrad GPA so that you'll be taken seriously as a med school candidate.
(Note: these two goals overlap but do not fully cover each other.)

You can do this at any 4yr school you want. For convenience only, you might want to consider a 2nd bachelors. You're likely to find that doing ad-hoc/non-matric/non-degree-seeking/"5th year"/etc coursework limits you in the ability to get student loans, in the ability to compete for a seat in a prereq against squeaky clean sophomores, and in the ability to access anything useful that your school does for premeds. You're likely to find that getting admitted as a degree-seeking 2nd bachelors student removes those obstacles.

Technically, a 2nd bachelors is a postbac.

 

[juddrl]

Since they're basically the same thing (in terms of the pre-requisite classes required), what's the benefit of a formal post bacc program? Besides the obviously huge disadvantage of lack of aid (as you mention), do medical schools look any more favorably on a formal program than second bachelor's? Who is a post bacc program for?

I hate the term "postbac" because it tends to obfuscate what you need to do.

What you need is:
1. To complete the undergrad science coursework required by most med schools: 1 year each with labs of bio/chem/ochem/physics.
2. To improve your undergrad GPA so that you'll be taken seriously as a med school candidate.
(Note: these two goals overlap but do not fully cover each other.)

You can do this at any 4yr school you want. For convenience only, you might want to consider a 2nd bachelors. You're likely to find that doing ad-hoc/non-matric/non-degree-seeking/"5th year"/etc coursework limits you in the ability to get student loans, in the ability to compete for a seat in a prereq against squeaky clean sophomores, and in the ability to access anything useful that your school does for premeds. You're likely to find that getting admitted as a degree-seeking 2nd bachelors student removes those obstacles.

Technically, a 2nd bachelors is a postbac.

 

[DrMidlife]

Since they're basically the same thing (in terms of the pre-requisite classes required), what's the benefit of a formal post bacc program?

Structure, advising, linkage. If you can get into a formal program and you can afford it, and if you get A's in it, then it's a good program for you. With your GPA, you're not eligible to get into a program with a linkage, unless you're URM.

Besides the obviously huge disadvantage of lack of aid (as you mention), do medical schools look any more favorably on a formal program than second bachelor's?

Formal programs tend to be good about getting fed aid since they're expensive.

Every med school and every adcom has a different bias. You're on a GPA comeback, my friend, and school prestige is not really on your top 10 list of things to worry about for a while.

Who is a post bacc program for?

You're killing me.

 

[deleted248403]

Who is a post bacc program for?

This is getting ridic.

But, the true formalized post-bac program is aimed at the career-changer or someone who did not do the prereqs as an undergrad but had a decent GPA (>3.0) in whatever subject they studied.

 

[drizzt3117]

I think juddri is someone who would benefit from the Texas academic fresh start program.

 

[juddrl]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that I'm clueless. My point was that it's my understanding that:

1. post-bacc programs are for people who don't have the prerequisites for medical school.
2. SMPs are for people who already took the prereqs but need to retake them because of low GPA.

Now, if my GPA is too low to get admitted to a post-bac, that's a whole other story, but I've been told by knowledgable people that a formal post-bac is taken more seriously than a 2nd bachelor's.

This is getting ridic.

But, the true formalized post-bac program is aimed at the career-changer or someone who did not do the prereqs as an undergrad but had a decent GPA (>3.0) in whatever subject they studied.

 

[deleted248403]

Now, if my GPA is too low to get admitted to a post-bac, that's a whole other story, but I've been told by knowledgable people that a formal post-bac is taken more seriously than a 2nd bachelor's.

Thats what we've been saying...repeatedly

You will not get into a formal post-bac with a 2.5 hence the need for a DIY program or a 2nd bachelors to get it done (and the pluses that come with a 2nd bachelor).

Even following a successful completion of the pre-reqs, your GPA will be too low to apply and you'll have to do an SMP